CIBM deleted my PCT guide lmao

[Arzenic]

Edit 2 - matter is dealt with

@BigBallsLarry @Orka @Luca_. @FlotPSL

 

[Grilldaddy❤️]

Why ?

 

[Arzenic]

Why ?

Cause he got butthurt, he mentioned it as "missinformation" first, even tho hes argument was retarded

 

[Insomnia]

Thats just a cuck move. You prolly spent a few days on that just for it to get deleted, because his feelings got hurt

 

[Arzenic]

Thats just a cuck move. You prolly spent a few days on that just for it to get deleted, because his feelings got hurt

Yeah genuienly, it's just funny asf that hes feelings got that much hurt that he just goes straight ahead and deletes it.
Even the misinforamation tag was a cuck move.

Just wondering if this can be concidered as "mod abuse" since there wasn't a valid reasoning behind him deleting it - as far as i know.

 

[Insomnia]

Yeah genuienly, it's just funny asf that hes feelings got that much hurt that he just goes straight ahead and deletes it.
Even the misinforamation tag was a cuck move.

Just wondering if this can be concidered as "mod abuse" since there wasn't a valid reasoning behind him deleting it.

It sure as shit is

 

[Arzenic]

Yeah genuienly, it's just funny asf that hes feelings got that much hurt that he just goes straight ahead and deletes it.
Even the misinforamation tag was a cuck move.

Just wondering if this can be concidered as "mod abuse" since there wasn't a valid reasoning behind him deleting it - as far as i know.

It sure as shit is

@Gengar @Randomized Shame Wdy ya'll think about this?

 

[FlotPSL]

@chadisbeingmade Saar why?

 

[Idontknow-]

Damn bro.

 

[Chad]

Cause he got butthurt, he mentioned it as "missinformation" first, even tho hes argument was retarded

@chadisbeingmade Saar why?

I asked you to back up your claims three time.
Not one time did you manage because your “proof” doesn’t exist and you know it. Muh “i’m at the gym” excuses.

And FYI the thead is still up..
That is wrong:

The Ultimate PCT Guide (Why PCT is important, whether to use or not, and much more) (MISINFORMATION)

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ This is The Only and the Best GUIDE of wether you should or should not use PCT __ ____ __ ____ __ ____ __ ____ __ ____...

looksmax.org

OP requested thead deletion now.

The moment you back up your claims and prove what I said wrong is the moment I remove the misinformation spoiler. My proof is in that thread as proof you’re full of shit and didn’t even have the ability to read the study correctly.

 

[Arzenic]

Not one time did you manage because your “proof” doesn’t exist and you know it. Muh “i’m at the gym” excuses.

Alright let's break down your claim

I read that study, and all it says is that PCT isin't clinically proven.
Which is a retarded argument btw, it's basicly the same as saying SARMs are ass cuz ur not supposed to take them

There's like 10000 anecdotal experiences about it - i don't know about you, but i'll rather belive the tens of thousands of anecdotal experiences than a low funded clinical study.

 

[asdvek]

The thread still up tho? Wdym

 

[Chad]

Alright let's break down your claim

I read that study, and all it says is that PCT isin't clinically proven.
Which is a retarded argument btw, it's basicly the same as saying SARMs are ass cuz ur not supposed to take them

“We were unable to demonstrate any beneficial effect of medications referred to as PCT, therefore the use of these agents should be discouraged.”

There's like 10000 anecdotal experiences about it - i don't know about you, but i'll rather belive the tens of thousands of anecdotal experiences than a low funded clinical study.

Right. So now eveyone that views this thead will see you are retarded. Great deployment of the scientific method. The anecdotes don’t mean anything at all considering they would’ve recovered faster without doing a PCT most likely based on the data we have. I didn’t say they won’t recover, I told you multiple times. They recover slower.

 

[asdvek]

“We were unable to demonstrate any beneficial effect of medications referred to as PCT, therefore the use of these agents should be discouraged.”


Right. So now eveyone that views this thead will see you are retarded. Great deployment of the scientific method. The anecdotes don’t mean anything at all considering they would’ve recovered faster without doing a PCT most likely based on the data we have. I didn’t say they won’t recover, I told you multiple times. They recover slower. This PCT is bs as well as your thread.

What do u think about eating shit for looksmax

 

[Arzenic]

Right. So now may one that views this thead will see you are retarded. Great deployment of the scientific method,

So enlighten me, your saying that all of the anecdotal records are just made up?

“We were unable to demonstrate any beneficial effect of medications referred to as PCT, therefore the use of these agents should be discouraged.”

Yes, so it means that it's just not "clinically" proven.

 

[Arzenic]

The thread still up tho? Wdym

It looked like it was deleted before, ig it's not

 

[Arzenic]

@chadisbeingmade If you want to talk more about it via PM's i'm up for it, i'm always ready to learn more.

But at the current state i respectfully have to disagree with the claim "PCT is cope".

 

[Chad]

Yes, so it means that it's just not "clinically" proven.

I don’t think you even read the study, just read the conclusion. It had 0 positive effect what so ever, if not entirely NEGATIVE. So yes, it’s not clinically proven to anything beneficial. So what justification do you have for using it?

So enlighten me, you’re saying that all of the anecdotal records are just made up?

Are you trying to tell me anecdotes > clinical trials JFL? Can’t make this shit up. Play this out. Say I take PCT, I recover. Is this an anecdote for the use of PCT? Who’s to say I wouldn’t have recovered faster without it? How would you know?

 

[Chad]

@chadisbeingmade If you want to talk more about it via PM's i'm up for it, i'm always ready to learn more.

But at the current state i respectfully have to disagree with the claim "PCT is cope".

Based on no scientific literature or any valid anecdotes (which are completely useless anyway). I asked you to back up your claims with literature, as I knew already, you have nothing whatsoever to back up your claim that PCT has a POSTIVE outcome. No benefit or entirely negative is what the current data say. Go read it. So to claim that PCT is beneficial is based on nothing.

 

[Deleted member 160598]

We livin on sum corrupt forum fr [idk what ptc is]

 

[Idontknow-]

We livin on sum corrupt forum fr [idk what ptc is]

Dont worry bhai, your not alone.

 

[Arzenic]

Who’s to say i wouldn’t have recovered faster without it? How would you know?

Have you recovered without PCT?

So what justification do you have for using it?

What's my justification, well let's say you do 1 cycle of LGD - 1mg of it suppresses you for around 70%. - i'm personally not risking my natural T nor my health.

Or if you do a cycle of test, which is going to shutdown your natural T - how are you planning to restart it fast enough without a proper PCT?

Are you trying to tell me anecdotes > clinical trials JFL?

No, i'm telling u that those anecdotes doesn't exist for no reason.

 

[LosPollosTV]

Honestly the data from the study(even though it had only about 100 participants?) was pretty good as it came from high quality samples:

https://www.njmonline.nl/getpdf.php?id=1978

 

[Chad]

Have you recovered without PCT?

Of course I have. I’ve also recovered with PCT before when I was a complete fucking moron. Let’s say I wrote a muh reddit post saying “I recovered with PCT”, which is what your “anecdotes” did. Doesn’t prove anything at all.

how are you planning to restart it without a proper PCT?

Absolutely. HCG on cycle.

No, i'm telling u that those anecdotes doesn't exist for no reason.

Yes they do. Tell me what good is anecdote that someone recovered using PCT? How do you know they wouldn’t recover faster without it, like the data indicates? Because PCT stands for “post cycle therapy”? Is that the only proof you have? Because there sure as hell isn’t any literature backing you up.

i'm personally not risking my natural T nor my health.

So you take something called “post cycle therapy “ because it has a nice name? Instead of looking at literature and seeing your recover slower?

 

[crazyguy]

Edit - it's back up

@BigBallsLarry @Orka @Luca_. @FlotPSL

 

[Chad]

We livin on sum corrupt forum fr [idk what ptc is]

Dont worry bhai, you’re not alone.

Yes you are living in a corrupt forum. With people (frauds) making supposedly informative threads to inform users on certain topics, but instead making threads based on absolutely no literature or data whatsoever. Not even valid anecdotes (which are also useless since they don’t mean shit, clinical trials > anecdotes). Do you think that’s fair to the user base?

As per the rules:

Rules and FAQ

👋 Welcome to Looksmax! This is a community for men who wish to improve their looks and become more successful in life. If you are interested in: Looking better Attracting the opposite sex Becoming wealthy Gaining status Being rated Becoming the best version of yourself ...then this is the...

looksmax.org

And no, the thread is not deleted. It’s open for everyone to see what a moron OP is. You can see the debate here in this thread, and in his other thread which I linked above. Yet to provide me with any literature whatsoever.

EDIT - OP requested thread deletion.

 

[Arzenic]

recovered with pct”, which is what your “anecdotes” did. Doesn’t prove anything at all.

Yeah u have a point here surely, not discrediting that.

Of course I have. I’ve also recovered with PCT before when I was a complete fucking moron.

Also i'm intrested that how long did the recovery take on each time - and the test after recovery?



----

Full recovery may be possible among men who use steroids for muscle growth

There may be hope for full recovery among men who wish to stop using anabolic-androgenic steroids for muscle growth, according to data being presented on Saturday at ENDO 2023, the Endocrine Society’s annual meeting in Chicago, Ill.

www.endocrine.org

(not a study, but there's bases and claims from people that has studied these)

"It is important to recognize that self-medicating post-cycle therapy is not recommended and may be hazardous if illicitly obtained. However, we were surprised to observe post-cycle therapy use was associated with an improved chance of having fully recovered reproductive hormones in men wishing to stop anabolic steroid use,”


------

OR25-03 Self-administration Of Post-cycle Therapy Is Associated With Increased Probability Of Subsequent Normalisation Of Reproductive Hormones Following Anabolic-androgenic Steroid Cessation In Men - PMC

Disclosure: B. Grant: None. J. Campbell: None. A. Pradeep: None. A.D. Burns: None. P. Bassett: None. P. Saket: None. S. Minhas: None. W.S. Dhillo: None. J. McVeigh: None. S. Bhasin: None. C.N. Jayasena: Grant Recipient; Self; Logixx Pharma Ltd. ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"PCT use was reported by 76% of men. Men using PCT had a significantly higher serum total testosterone following AAS cessation compared to men who did not "


Also i can't help to wonder why you have to fit an insult in every other sentence? Is your ego that fragile?

 

[Arzenic]

With people (frauds) making supposedly informative threads

Really living in your head rent free, huh?

We livin on sum corrupt forum fr [idk what ptc is]

This has been water for a loong time my nigga, you can't respectfully debate without getting bashed by someone with a fragile ego.

 

[Neucher]

apparently in clinical trials PCT didn't help but I think they were only testing TRT dosages not blasting

 

[Chad]

Also i'm intrested that how long did the recovery take on each time - and the test after recovery?

I’ve abruptly stopped gear like 3 separate times. Cold turkeyed everything besides HCG for a week or two, then dropped HCG entirely. Test was always 600ng/dl+ a fortnight/month later. The one time I used PCT my levels weren’t nearly as high after the same time frame.

Really living in your head rent free, huh?

You are one one who made this bullshit thread bud. I’m only here cos I was tagged, not out choice or because you are “rent free”.

not a study,

Right lol

OR25-03 Self-administration Of Post-cycle Therapy Is Associated With Increased Probability Of Subsequent Normalisation Of Reproductive Hormones Following Anabolic-androgenic Steroid Cessation In Men - PMC

Disclosure: B. Grant: None. J. Campbell: None. A. Pradeep: None. A.D. Burns: None. P. Bassett: None. P. Saket: None. S. Minhas: None. W.S. Dhillo: None. J. McVeigh: None. S. Bhasin: None. C.N. Jayasena: Grant Recipient; Self; Logixx Pharma Ltd. ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I caged. Did you even read it? Fucking laughable study.

 

[Arzenic]

You are one one who made this bullshit thread bud

indeed, i wanted to clear the things since i left them "not cleared" the last time.

right lol

Doesn't mean it should be discredited.

I caged. Did you even read it? Fucking laughable study.

Yes, i did read it. Now how is it laughable?

 

[Neucher]

I’ve abruptly stopped gear like 3 separate times. Cold turkeyed everything besides HCG for a week or two, then dropped HCG entirely. Test was always 600ng/dl+ a fortnight/month later. The one time I used PCT my levels weren’t nearly as high after the same time frame.

maybe fertility was higher on PCT

 

[Chad]

maybe fertility was higher on PCT

It recovered slower

Doesn' mean it should be discredited.

Yes. Yes it does.

I’m replying to the rest now.

 

[4ever]

Of course I have. I’ve also recovered with PCT before when I was a complete fucking moron. Let’s say I wrote a muh reddit post saying “i recovered with pct”, which is what your “anecdotes” did. Doesn’t prove anything at all.


Absolutely. HCG on cycle.


Holy fuck you are an idiot. Yes they do. Tell me what good is anecdote that someone recovered using PCT? How do you know they wouldn’t recover faster without it, like the data indicates? Because PCT stands for “post cycle therapy”? Is that the only proof you have? because there sure as hell isn’t any literature backing you up.



So you take something called “post cycle therapy “ because it has a nice name? Instead of looking at literature and seeing your recover slower?

Jesus.

Ik you're against SARMS and probably enclo as well, but can enclo actually prevent you from being fully supressed and help recover normal test production faster after quitting SARMS?
If no, why not?

Tldr: Enclo as DCT and PCT with Sarms better than without Enclo or not?

 

[Arzenic]

Tldr: Enclo as DCT and PCT with Sarms better than without Enclo or not?

WIth SARMs, i would recomend enclo.

Though CIBM is probably going to disagree with this

 

[4ever]

WIth SARMs, i would recomend enclo.

Though CIBM is probably going to disagree with this

That was my take as well.

Regardless if SARMS or enclo in itself are good.

But SARMS + Enclo > SARMS without Enclo
from what I've seen

 

[Arzenic]

That was my take as well.

Regardless if SARMS or enclo in itself are good.

But SARMS + Enclo > SARMS without Enclo
from what I've seen

Well the study @chadisbeingmade is referring to is after androgenics,

and SARMs androgenic to anabolic ratio is 10000 times lower than stereoids.
So way less androgenic side effects, since they are highly selective and only bind to certain tissues. Unlike test which binds to everything.

 

[Chad]

Yes, i did read it. Now how is it laughable?

“PCT use was reported by 76% of men.” JFL. If you can’t tell me what’s wrong with that then we got a problem. It completely invalidates the whole thing off the rip.

Study doesn’t even control how PCT was done. So “PCT use” is heterogenous in this study. Could’ve been just HCG, a SERM etc. Could have been taking bunk shit for all I care.

What’s AAS in this study? You don’t know. Half could’ve taken fucking Tren year round. Think they are going to recover like someone who did a moderate test cycle? For how long did they run AAS prior? All makes a massive difference. And considering basically 80% administered PCT, did you expect a different outcome JFL?

 

[Chad]

Ik you're against SARMS and probably enclo as well, but can enclo actually prevent you from being fully supressed and help recover normal test production faster after quitting SARMS?

If no, why not?

There is no evidence whatsoever to show that PCT helps recover faster. Only evidence shows the opposite.

Tldr: Enclo as DCT and PCT with Sarms better than without Enclo or not?

Enclo is complete jester. HCG.

 

[Arzenic]

First off “PCT use was reported by 76% of men.” JFL. If you can’t tell me what’s wrong with that then we got a problem. It completely invalidates the winter thing off the rip.

Study doesn’t even control how PCT was done. So “PCT use” is heterogenous in this study. Could’ve been just HCG, a SERM etc. Could have been taking bunk shit for all I care.

What’s AAS in this study? You don’t know. Half could’ve taken fucking Tren Could be fucking Tren for all I care. Think they are going to recover like someone who did a moderate test cycle? For how long did they run AAS prior? All makes a massive difference.

Fair enough,

i don't got more basis on here. I respect and appreaciete you for correcting my shit. From this on i'll go deeper on these topics haha.
You can delete the PCT guide if you'd like - don't want to have shit going on my name that i can't assure to not be missinformation.

 

[Chad]

Fair enough,

i don't got more basis on here. I respect and appreaciete you for correcting my shit. From this on i'll go deeper on these topics haha.
You can delete the PCT guide if you'd like - don't want to have shit going on my name that i can't assure to not be missinformation.

If you want it deleted, you can have it deleted. Just let me know.

I do have respect for people that are able to change their opinion provided new evidence. I wouldn’t intentionally cuck myself or others, if the data shows (or you had shown) that PCT is worth your time, I would both take and recommend it, but i’ve been down the rabbit hole and that’s the conclusion i have come to considering the data we have now.

 

[Arzenic]

If you want it deleted, you can have it deleted. Just let me know.

I do have respect for people that are able to change their provided new evidence. I wouldn’t intentionally cuck myself or others, if the data shows that PCT is with your time, I would both take and recommend it, but i’ve been down the rabbit hole and that’s the conclusion i have come to considering the data we have now.

Yeah for sure, i would like it to be deleted.

Deffinetly, i myself have to educate myself more on the topic.

 

[4ever]

There is no evidence whatsoever to show that PCT helps recover faster. Only evidence shows the opposite.


enclo is complete jester. HCG.

I understand that, but do you actually need to recover if you manage to avoid shutdown? There are people with normal test levels on SARMs + enclo. This wouldn't work with more potent or aromatizing substances, I get that.

Are you following Paul Carter?

 

[Arzenic]

if you manage to avoid shutdown?

You can't really avoid it on most of the SARMs as far as i know - maybe with like AC-262 and ACP-105 you would have lower chances of getting your test shutdown.

Which SARM were u thinking on taking?

 

[Chad]

but do you actually need to recover if you manage to avoid shutdown?

You aren’t getting fully shut down on SARMs or at least very unlikely, but you aren’t going to avoid suppression.

Are you following Paul Carter?

No idea who that is.

 

[4ever]

You can't really avoid it on most of the SARMs as far as i know - maybe with like AC-262 and ACP-105 you would have lower chances of getting your test shutdown.

Which SARM were u thinking on taking?

I'm just on the last couple of days of a rad cycle I started before reading peoples opinion on the compound here.

If I take something again, it would probably be test.

You aren’t getting fully shut down on SARMs or at least very unlikely, but you aren’t going to avoid suppression.


No idea who that is

Some guy who's saying the same about PCT.

 

[Chad]

I'm just on the last couple of days of a rad cycle I started before reading peoples opinion on the compound here

I ran it years ago. Just pin Test.

Some guy who's saying the same about PCT.

Brutal.

 

[Insomnia]

Bruh you niggas still arguing

 

[Arzenic]

Bruh you niggas still arguing

Nah, it’s resolved

 

[crazyguy]

Yeah for sure, i would like it to be deleted.

Deffinetly, i myself have to educate myself more on the topic.

you did not stand on 10 toes