Consensus on MSE + FM ?

[Deleted member 3635]

is it cope or not , many say it can cause downward growth other say if you pull up it can cause forward growth ? Any high IQ cell wanna clear up some confusion for me

 

[Deleted member 2621]

There is no consensus.

 

[Deleted member 2621]

But regarding the downward growth I thin you mean AGGA. If you build a proper facepuller with facebow like @CopeAndRope you shouldnt have to worry about that. Imho i think people here recommend MSE too quickly, at the average forum age palatal expander is just as effective

 

[Good_Little_Goy]

Never heard it causes downward growth.
it's not well documented being used for cosmetic purposes so we really don't know what you can expect in terms of forward growth and ccw rotation etc
seems promising but if you're just looking for forward growth and or upswing, bimax is still your best bet

 

[Slyfex8]

To me the consensus is pretty much get a bimax instead

 

[MentalistKebab]

No proof of it actually changing the bone (let alone creating ccw rotatation).

Some @retard s here are trying to run away from inevitable bimax but they are coping rn

 

[Good_Little_Goy]

No proof of it actually changing the bone (let alone creating ccw rotatation).

Some @retard s here are trying to run away from inevitable bimax but they are coping rn

I think there's some and some simulations by won moon or somebody but yeah, we are severely lacking in before and afters showing bimax tier cosmetic improvements (or any for that matter).
It's possible that in the coming years we will see the results come in and confirm that mse and fm is a reliable way to create ccw of the maxilla but for now don't be a guinea pig and get just get bimax.

 

[retard]

No proof of it actually changing the bone (let alone creating ccw rotatation).

Some @retard s here are trying to run away from inevitable bimax but they are coping rn

won moon hasn’t released any case reports but from a video I managed to get a pic of a cephlograph and it shows 10 mm of maxilla movement in 10 months which is nothing short of insane

 

[MentalistKebab]

won moon hasn’t released any case reports but from a video I managed to get a pic of a cephlograph and it shows 10 mm of maxilla movement in 10 months which is nothing short of insane

Bro do you read what you write ?

You are literally saying decade of wrong jaw development can be fixed in few months while maxilla is wayyyy harder than ever before.

 

[retard]

Bro do you read what you write ?

You are literally saying decade of wrong jaw development can be fixed in few months while maxilla is wayyyy harder than ever before.

correct that is why mse is literally the holy grail of looksmaxxing, it disrupts all the sutures that makes non surgical bone change so hard, mse gets the same level of protraction as bone anchored does in young kids

 

[MentalistKebab]

correct that is why mse is literally the holy grail of looksmaxxing, it disrupts all the sutures that makes non surgical bone change so hard, mse gets the same level of protraction as bone anchored does in young kids

If so why we are not already seeing some results by now ?

I mean this MSE + facemask idea is not new, and according to you it has the potential to make average guys chads in few months, yet there are no pics revealing incredible psl increade transformations, no ct scans that shows maxilla changing, no anything

 

[retard]

If so why we are not already seeing some results by now ?

I mean this MSE + facemask idea is not new, and according to you it has the potential to make average guys chads in few months, yet there are no pics revealing incredible psl increade transformations, no ct scans that shows maxilla changing, no anything

varbrah is the only person who had it done and only wore it 8 hours a day and still got 4 mm of forward growth, it is not easy to get mse + fm I tried 3 orthos and got denied by all of them unless you really need it

most people will only get it if they’re recessed meaning they might go from recessed to average, if average and you get it it you go from chad

obviously you can go from recessed to chad by the same logic it just requires more pulling time than someone who isn’t as recessed

 

[Deleted member 1862]

If so why we are not already seeing some results by now ?

I mean this MSE + facemask idea is not new, and according to you it has the potential to make average guys chads in few months, yet there are no pics revealing incredible psl increade transformations, no ct scans that shows maxilla changing, no anything

Bro do you read what you write ?

You are literally saying decade of wrong jaw development can be fixed in few months while maxilla is wayyyy harder than ever before.

1) MSE is much newer than jaw surgery, a lack of online information isn't an indicator that a procedure is useless. MLF3 has no B&As online yet if you consult with one of the drs that does it, you'll see some pretty impressive results.
2) What even counts as an "incredible PSL transformation"? Probably smth that's unrealistic and never been achieved.

There are cases where MSE is more appropriate, and cases where bi-max is more appropriate. It's that simple.

 

[curryslayerordeath]

won moon hasn’t released any case reports but from a video I managed to get a pic of a cephlograph and it shows 10 mm of maxilla movement in 10 months which is nothing short of insane

retard
Maxillaologist
JoinedApr 6, 2019Posts2,068Reputation4,768Time online65d 5h 32m

If so why we are not already seeing some results by now ?

I mean this MSE + facemask idea is not new, and according to you it has the potential to make average guys chads in few months, yet there are no pics revealing incredible psl increade transformations, no ct scans that shows maxilla changing, no anything

what makes u think that adding a few mm of width in certain features along someones face will make an average guy a chad lol? u wont find a single "incredible" psl transformation for anything.

 

[MentalistKebab]

View attachment 494647

retard
Maxillaologist
JoinedApr 6, 2019Posts2,068Reputation4,768Time online65d 5h 32m


what makes u think that adding a few mm of width in certain features along someones face will make an average guy a chad lol? u wont find a single "incredible" psl transformation for anything.

Not just width lol. Werent you following the latest cope ? Latest idea is facemask will give you lefort like forward growth when its attached to MSE

 

[curryslayerordeath]

Not just width lol. Werent you following the latest cope ? Latest idea is facemask will give you lefort like forward growth when its attached to MSE

the width is the part i am interested in and consider remarkable per say. its not rly a cope, but the expectations that ppl have from a small degree of forward growth (without the rotation capabilities of bimax) is pretty out there lol. these threads have kept reappearing for over a year when all the info to make a judgement is already out there.

 

[Deleted member 3635]

the width is the part i am interested in and consider remarkable per say. its not rly a cope, but the expectations that ppl have from a small degree of forward growth (without the rotation capabilities of bimax) is pretty out there lol. these threads have kept reappearing for over a year when all the info to make a judgement is already out there.

Nah there's a lot contradicting information and it seems to be more nuanced than it being just right or wrong that's why I am looking at different peoples opinions

 

[Deleted member 3635]

won moon hasn’t released any case reports but from a video I managed to get a pic of a cephlograph and it shows 10 mm of maxilla movement in 10 months which is nothing short of insane

amazing was it with just any facepuller ? and what was the age of the patient

 

[Deleted member 3635]

To me the consensus is pretty much get a bimax instead

I thought bimax is only for the mandible and just does nothing to the upper palate/maxilla?

 

[curryslayerordeath]

Nah there's a lot contradicting information and it seems to be more nuanced than it being just right or wrong that's why I am looking at different peoples opinions

there is no right or wrong, it depends on your face. you cant make a broad consensus for something that depends case by case on a persons skull/airways.

 

[retard]

amazing was it with just any facepuller ? and what was the age of the patient

the facepuller doesn’t matter which one is used and it was an adult but didn’t specify

 

[Deleted member 3020]

I am getting mse+fm on July 27

 

[Deleted member 3635]

I am getting mse+fm on July 27

On the 16th here brother wish you luck

 

[Deleted member 3020]

Also Prof. Moon’s simulations say pulling -30° force vector results in very slight anterior CCW rotation. This is what Post-MI-FM aka MSE and -30° force vector shows to be. MSE+FM should not be used for CCW rotations

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Also Prof. Moon’s simulations say pulling -30° force vector results in very slight anterior CCW rotation. This is what Post-MI-FM aka MSE and -30° force vector shows to be. MSE+FM should not be used for CCW rotations

But what about this example?

 

[Deleted member 3020]

But what about this example?
View attachment 494997

That is simulation F. MSE cannot create this since it has to be placed on the back of the maxilla for a parallel suture split. you would need to have screws in the anterior maxilla as shown in this picture

 

[Deleted member 5385]

That is simulation F. MSE cannot create this since it has to be placed on the back of the maxilla for a parallel suture split. That simulation needs to have screws in the anterior maxilla as shown in this picture

So I need that version of MARPE, not MSE.

 

[Deleted member 3020]

So I need that version of MARPE, not MSE.

Yes, if you would like to have a good CCW rotation on the maxilla. But be warned that it will result in a non parallel split.

 

[Deleted member 3635]

Also Prof. Moon’s simulations say pulling -30° force vector results in very slight anterior CCW rotation. This is what Post-MI-FM aka MSE and -30° force vector shows to be. MSE+FM should not be used for CCW rotations

can u explain ccw rotations to me bro is it good or bad XD

 

[Deleted member 3020]

can u explain ccw rotations to me bro is it good or bad XD

CCW rotation is good, because it will shorten your midface and upswing your mandible, decreasing your gonial angle and may project your chin

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Yes, if you would like to have a good CCW rotation on the maxilla. But be warned that it will result in a non parallel split.

So what could happen if there is no parallel split? I only need to move my maxilla upwards then forward growth I can get with Lefort's

 

[Deleted member 3020]

So what could happen if there is no parallel split? I only need to move my maxilla upwards then forward growth I can get with Lefort's

there is a lot to cover, so I will post a lecture by won moon and he covers this at 4:12, go and check it out

 

[Deleted member 5385]

there is a lot to cover, so I will post a lecture by won moon and he covers this at 4:12, go and check it out

So theoretically you could firstly get split all these back sutures with MSE, then remove it and install MARPE to get ccw rotation. In practise you would have a lot of money and patience and patient and good ortho.

 

[Deleted member 5385]

can u explain ccw rotations to me bro is it good or bad XD

Ccw rotation is the best thing what 98% percent of faces could get. Also it will increase under eye support. All great looking faces had ccw rotation of maxilla during development.

 

[Deleted member 3020]

So theoretically you could firstly get split all these back sutures with MSE, then remove it and install MARPE to get ccw rotation. In practise you would have a lot of money and patience and patient and good ortho.

or get mse and bimax surgery

 

[Deleted member 5385]

or get mse and bimax surgery

Bimax can't give this

 

[Deleted member 3020]

Bimax can't give thisView attachment 495112

it can

 

[Deleted member 5385]

it can

How? Bimax can't rotate whole maxilla upward, IT can't affect your nose etc. upper maxilla

 

[Deleted member 3020]

How? Bimax can't rotate whole maxilla upward, IT can't affect your nose etc. upper maxilla

in that simulation only the lower maxilla is rotated.

 

[Deleted member 5385]

in that simulation only the lower maxilla is rotated.

But nose and midface are shortened also, right? Nasal base is higher set after

 

[Deleted member 3020]

But nose and midface are shortened also, right? Nasal base is higher set after

“The LeFort I osteotomy is one of the most commonly used procedures to correct midface deformities. It allows for correction in three dimensions including advancement, retrusion, elongation, and shortening.”

LeFort I Osteotomy

The LeFort I osteotomy is one of the most commonly used procedures to correct midface deformities. It allows for correction in three dimensions including advancement, retrusion, elongation, and shortening. It is indicated, often in conjunction with mandibular ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Deleted member 3635]

or get mse and bimax surgery

what about MSDO ?