Considerations for the plan I need

[Soychadcell]

I need advice on the next steps to take.
I am obviously lacking angularity and forwards growth, my mandible is downgrown a lot.
Bimax is not really possible, mainly cost wise.
I am pondering jaw angle implants, but am considering jaw filler as I am somehow of lower inhibition when it comes to that. Do you think that would help enough to get my ramus length and gonial angle in check and add the much needed angularity?
Or is another surgery more need, should I prioritise something else, I am also considering ptsoaris surgery, blepheroplasty, rhino or mouth widening. All are options but I am not enclined to do many surgeries since I want to take things slow and natural looking.

Age 21, 6‘7“. No Peptide or Steroid use done yet. Bf around 17% or less I would estimate.

 

[Soychadcell]

Bump 1

 

[Soychadcell]

Bump 1

Bump2

 

[Soychadcell]

I need advice on the next steps to take.
I am obviously lacking angularity and forwards growth, my mandible is downgrown a lot.
Bimax is not really possible, mainly cost wise.
I am pondering jaw angle implants, but am considering jaw filler as I am somehow of lower inhibition when it comes to that. Do you think that would help enough to get my ramus length and gonial angle in check and add the much needed angularity?
Or is another surgery more need, should I prioritise something else, I am also considering ptsoaris surgery, blepheroplasty, rhino or mouth widening. All are options but I am not enclined to do many surgeries since I want to take things slow and natural looking.

Age 21, 6‘7“. No Peptide or Steroid use done yet. Bf around 17% or less I would estimate.

Not even a single comment dawg

 

[Resistance.]

Bro beacuse we need see your front and side . We cant say anyhting about this video

 

[Assymetry]

Implants won’t be much cheaper than bimax.

 

[Soychadcell]

Bro beacuse we need see your front and side . We cant say anyhting about this video

I thought you’d see everything well enough. Anyways, here you go

 

[Resistance.]

I thought you’d see everything well enough. Anyways, here you go
View attachment 4357621View attachment 4357629View attachment 4357642
View attachment 4357647

Side :

Nice forward grwoth brother. You can do gonial angle implant.


Front :

Lip lift
Genioplasty

 

[Soychadcell]

Side :

Nice forward grwoth brother. You can do gonial angle implant.


Front :

Lip lift
Genioplasty

Gonial angle implants noted.
Lip lift and possibly mouth widening where on my list of surgeries aswell, how ever the scarring of a liplift is sort of weird. Genioplasty is also noted but I have only ever seen genioplasties that advance the chin, I think my problem is the shape of my chin. Might just get a small amount of extremely thick filler there to make it more square

 

[Mr robot]

I need advice on the next steps to take.
I am obviously lacking angularity and forwards growth, my mandible is downgrown a lot.
Bimax is not really possible, mainly cost wise.
I am pondering jaw angle implants, but am considering jaw filler as I am somehow of lower inhibition when it comes to that. Do you think that would help enough to get my ramus length and gonial angle in check and add the much needed angularity?
Or is another surgery more need, should I prioritise something else, I am also considering ptsoaris surgery, blepheroplasty, rhino or mouth widening. All are options but I am not enclined to do many surgeries since I want to take things slow and natural looking.

Age 21, 6‘7“. No Peptide or Steroid use done yet. Bf around 17% or less I would estimate.

Dude your 6’7 and look above average it’s really not necessary , but if you wanna go through with it don’t get filler

 

[TrueEveSlayer]

height larp in big 25

 

[Soychadcell]

Dude your 6’7 and look above average it’s really not necessary , but if you wanna go through with it don’t get filler

Never had a relationship or was really intimate. My autistic tendencies need to be compensated. When I get back to my home country in a few months (currently in medschool abroad) I can get back to working to get the moneys I need to ascend before age 22. I will start my peptide stack in January because I am expecting an improvement in my financial situation then. Currently only running topical minoxidil and megadosing Vit D3 + K2. If I don’t see changes in the first 6 months of my peptide/Ped journey I will be choosing surgery.
Chadlite or suicide, I have unchangable character flaws to make up for.

 

[Prøphet]

Never had a relationship or was really intimate. My autistic tendencies need to be compensated. When I get back to my home country in a few months (currently in medschool abroad) I can get back to working to get the moneys I need to ascend before age 22. I will start my peptide stack in January because I am expecting an improvement in my financial situation then. Currently only running topical minoxidil and megadosing Vit D3 + K2. If I don’t see changes in the first 6 months of my peptide/Ped journey I will be choosing surgery.
Chadlite or suicide, I have unchangable character flaws to make up for.

Nd pill is fuckibg brutal, 6’7 hmtn in med school still struggling somehow holy

 

[Soychadcell]

height larp in big 25

I can give you proof. Tbf 6‘7“ is rounded up, I am 1.98cm without shoes and hair pressed flat but with shoes I stand at 2m clean. 220pounds and frame cucked though as no V taper is achievable at this hight, even after years of gym with phases of good dieting.

Me next to a friend

Taller then the doors on our elevator

and here at age 9 playing soccer with kids aged 9 and 10, guess which of them is me. I even had to bend down

 

[TrueEveSlayer]

I can give you proof. Tbf 6‘7“ is rounded up, I am 1.98cm without shoes and hair pressed flat but with shoes I stand at 2m clean. 220pounds and frame cucked though as no V taper is achievable at this hight, even after years of gym with phases of good dieting.
View attachment 4357879Me next to a friend

View attachment 4357885Taller then the doors on our elevator
View attachment 4357901and here at age 9 playing soccer with kids aged 9 and 10, guess which of them is me. I even had to bend down

Impressive what were your parents height or parental average?

 

[Soychadcell]

Impressive what were your parents height or parental average?

My dad used to be very short as a kid but had a late growth spurt and grew to around 1.85cm or so I’d guess. My mother used to be around 1.73m but those are estimates. My mother is sort of tall though. How ever my grandfather on my mothers side used to be 1.90m while growing up with a massive lack of food and no meat what so ever in post ww2 Germany and we have recording that ancestors on my fathers side where in the „Lange Kerle“-Batallion. A Prussian batallion that selected people based on hight to show of Prussia’s strength. Only people 1.90m+ where chosen, insane for the time.

 

[Soychadcell]

Nd pill is fuckibg brutal, 6’7 hmtn in med school still struggling somehow holy

Truly is, starting my peptide journey soon when I have more financial freedom and am more knowledgeable in endocrinology and especially histology to understand the processes better and avoid mistakes. Should be around January. I will experiment with Selank and if possible Pre-Gabba. Ritalin helps me a tiny bit for social interactions as well, might be a placebo though. Going in to spring I will start my MT2 Nasal Spray journey aswell, I had planned on taking a higher dose of MT1 as it is less effective but can’t pass the blood brain barrier ( a nice fact to know if you are afraid of the yet unknown sideeffects of MT2 as it also interacts with MT receptors in the CNS) but decided to order MT2 instead as I heard that it can reverse autistic features which isn’t possible for MT1.

 

[TrueEveSlayer]

My dad used to be very short as a kid but had a late growth spurt and grew to around 1.85cm or so I’d guess. My mother used to be around 1.73m but those are estimates. My mother is sort of tall though. How ever my grandfather on my mothers side used to be 1.90m while growing up with a massive lack of food and no meat what so ever in post ww2 Germany and we have recording that ancestors on my fathers side where in the „Lange Kerle“-Batallion. A Prussian batallion that selected people based on hight to show of Prussia’s strength. Only people 1.90m+ where chosen, insane for the time.

its like the battalion they potsdam giants,

ps just translated wtf you actually are a product of human breeding lmao.

 

[Soychadcell]

its like the battalion they potsdam giants,

ps just translated wtf you actually are a product of human breeding lmao.

It isn’t „like“ the Potsdam giants, it is the same batallion. The name I mentioned was more of a nickname. But I guess I got lucky. My fathers side had some nice hidden recessive genes that in combination with the genes of my mum gave me this hight. My little brothers are very different looking but also 1.89 and 1.92 both still very slowly growing.

 

[TrueEveSlayer]

yeah actually wild since I like just learned about them 3 hours ago

 

[Soychadcell]

yeah actually wild since I like just learned about them 3 hours ago

The universe is strange dude. But now that you say it, I just saved a TikTok about the batallion in remembrance of my forefathers. It came across my FYP and had a good amount of views today lol. Similar algorithms and a lot of coincidence

 

[vermicel]

I am obviously lacking angularity and forwards growth, my mandible is downgrown a lot.

Lacking angularity ? Yes, to some extent. Gonial angle is too obtuse, which gives a rounder appearance to the lower cheek area (you may also have large cheek fat pads, who knows).

Lacking forward growth ? Not really. At least, the maxilla, nose tip, and pogonion, all seem well projected forward. To my eye, if we focus on a lack of forward growth, the issue would rather point at the radix and brow ridge.

However, talking about the chin ...

I think my problem is the shape of my chin

... yes, I tend to agree with you. As said above, forward growth is good enough. It's the asymmetric mass and oblique projection that downgrade your chin area and cause a softer submental (the bone doesn't stretch the skin properly).

Morph of your side profile (radix & brow ridge both augmented forward, gonial angle corrected, chin angle corrected) :

 

[Soychadcell]

Lacking angularity ? Yes, to some extent. Gonial angle is too obtuse, which gives a rounder appearance to the lower cheek area (you may also have large cheek fat pads, who knows).

Lacking forward growth ? Not really. At least, the maxilla, nose tip, and pogonion, all seem well projected forward. To my eye, if we focus on a lack of forward growth, the issue would rather point at the radix and brow ridge.

However, talking about the chin ...

... yes, I tend to agree with you. As said above, forward growth is good enough. It's the asymmetric mass and oblique projection that downgrade your chin area and cause a softer submental (the bone doesn't stretch the skin properly).

Morph of your side profile (radix & brow ridge both augmented forward, gonial angle corrected, chin angle corrected) :

View attachment 4358064

Great morph thanks for the effort. Would look insane with better coloring and the razor marks removed lol. Do you have any recommendations on procedures that would tackle the problems you mentioned?

 

[vermicel]

I don't think addressing the radix & brow ridge's forward growth is worth it (radix -> grafting ; brow ridge -> implant). The risk to reward ratio is low in your case, and your money will be better spent elsewhere.

Jaw & chin is where it's at. Fixing those will carry the highest looksmax for you, both for the front and side profiles.

You have good, broad zygos.
Your jaw width is good too, a bit too wide when looking at the bizygomatic : bigonial width ratio. I think it is due to the current gonions' position and gonial angle, and the soft tissue around that area. Besides jaw angle implants, I don't know how else you could fix that. Others may chime in with better or complementary orthognathic treatments.
If a leaner physique doesn't help, buccal fat removal might be beneficial, although the long term effect could be debated.

Genioplasty seems to be a given, in order to restore symmetry and the right angle of projection. While that may give your chin the right squareness, fillers could be necessary for additional angularity.

Other aspects to consider :

your lower lip to upper lip ratio isn't ideal. The lower lip is too thin. Besides fillers (fat or else), I don't know which procedures deliver consistant good results.

Your mouth to nose width ratio is good when measuring it from the commissures, but the lips themselves lack a bit of lateral projection. To my knowledge, it cannot be fixed. Not a big flaw though.

@Resistance. suggested a lip lift. He might be right.

Finally, a reduced space between the eyebrows would be ideal ; in other words, more growth towards the glabella. But that seems hard to achieve if there's no hair (darker vellus) there at the moment, even with minoxidil + microneedling. I would be wary of an eyebrow transplant, as the density won't match the native eyebrow and will require constant grooming (the transplanted hair will grow longer and will need to be trimmed). Not worth it in your case, imo.

As for the coloring : I think it is above average, considering the redness of your lips, light eyes, mid brown hair, dark contrasting eyebrows, and even fair skin. Maybe you could play around with lighter shades in your head hair, just as an aesthetic experiment, to gain a slight edge.


Morph of the front profile (fixed jaw angles & chin, increased leanness around the cheeks, bigger lower lip, slightly reduced eyebrow spacing) :

The morph doesn't show the potential impact of a lip lift, because I'm not too sure how to simulate it.

 

[Soychadcell]

I don't think addressing the radix & brow ridge's forward growth is worth it (radix -> grafting ; brow ridge -> implant). The risk to reward ratio is low in your case, and your money will be better spent elsewhere.

Jaw & chin is where it's at. Fixing those will carry the highest looksmax for you, both for the front and side profiles.

You have good, broad zygos.
Your jaw width is good too, a bit too wide when looking at the bizygomatic : bigonial width ratio. I think it is due to the current gonions' position and gonial angle, and the soft tissue around that area. Besides jaw angle implants, I don't know how else you could fix that. Others may chime in with better or complementary orthognathic treatments.
If a leaner physique doesn't help, buccal fat removal might be beneficial, although the long term effect could be debated.

Genioplasty seems to be a given, in order to restore symmetry and the right angle of projection. While that may give your chin the right squareness, fillers could be necessary for additional angularity.

Other aspects to consider :

your lower lip to upper lip ratio isn't ideal. The lower lip is too thin. Besides fillers (fat or else), I don't know which procedures deliver consistant good results.

Your mouth to nose width ratio is good when measuring it from the commissures, but the lips themselves lack a bit of lateral projection. To my knowledge, it cannot be fixed. Not a big flaw though.

@Resistance. suggested a lip lift. He might be right.

Finally, a reduced space between the eyebrows would be ideal ; in other words, more growth towards the glabella. But that seems hard to achieve if there's no hair (darker vellus) there at the moment, even with minoxidil + microneedling. I would be wary of an eyebrow transplant, as the density won't match the native eyebrow and will require constant grooming (the transplanted hair will grow longer and will need to be trimmed). Not worth it in your case, imo.

As for the coloring : I think it is above average, considering the redness of your lips, light eyes, mid brown hair, dark contrasting eyebrows, and even fair skin. Maybe you could play around with lighter shades in your head hair, just as an aesthetic experiment, to gain a slight edge.


Morph of the front profile (fixed jaw angles & chin, increased leanness around the cheeks, bigger lower lip, slightly reduced eyebrow spacing) :

View attachment 4359469


The morph doesn't show the potential impact of a lip lift, because I'm not too sure how to simulate it.

My eyebrows are usually more grown towards the Center. I just fucked up when shaving cause I tend to shave away a few hairs in the middle when the brow starts to thin out lmao. So that’s not the biggest problem. I am actually quite pleasantly surprised by the changes in the brow region as they can be achieved quite well with filler imo. Filler migration shouldn’t be a huge issue here as the region is made from stable tissue, much more so then the lips for example so I might get brow filler and a slight build up on the nasal to brow ridge. The procedure of altering my ramus length I have not decided on yet, wether to go purely orthognactic or to asses the topic with implants will be decided by my surgeon hopefully as I know that some surgeons prefer to just alter the underlying bone in case of an asymmetry as this comes with the functional benefit of equalising the force on the mandibular joints. I went to our physiology lab and wrote an EMG of my masseters while biting down, clearly showing asymmetric biting patterns which would be an indicator for going a route without implants.

As you can tell mean bite force during bilateral contraction was visibly stronger on the right.
I am not sure on how to tackle the lips yet, so far I thought my problem was the upper lip wich is why I focused on an upper lip lift. But if both lips need movement that shall happen.

One thing I noticed in your morph is that you drastically slimmed the jaw from the front.
I don’t know if that is possible tbh but fat dissolving or even masseter Botox might help me. I will keep these as backup as fat dissolving can age the skin a lot and cause drooping in the medium to long term.

Also. I am wondering about my eye symmetry and wether you would advice on any changes to the eye area besides altering the brow ridge.

I was of the assumption that both my eyes and jaw where super asymmetrical but now I think it’s mainly the jaw that makes the eyes look asymmetrical due to the different ramus lengths and shifted chin.

Edit: Do you believe MSE could give me an improved mid to lower third ratio ? I have super super mild dental crowding