johndoe_
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This is a thread about the various cope methods and the lengths people go through to not get any results.
Today I‘ll be going in depth about the numerous amount of cope methods that go around to this day.
Segments:
What am I trying to say with this thread?
The goal is just to point out the huge amount of methods that don‘t work. I don‘t think anyone should be investing their time or money on things that wouldn‘t benifit them, especially with a possibly limited amount of time.
Do whatever you can to ascend. That‘s what matters.
If anything I said is untrue or not accurate, please let me know and cite the study so I can change or remove it.
Today I‘ll be going in depth about the numerous amount of cope methods that go around to this day.
Segments:
- Pharmaceuticals
- Orthodontics
- Social Media born Copes
Starting off with pharmaceuticals, there is a very large range of compounds wich I won‘t be going over with today, since it‘s too much for a single segment. I‘ll be going over the main copes that are most known.
HGH for height growth is one of the biggest copes in this forum. The main issue with HGH is that the main issue is that growth plates have finite proliferative capacity, meaning the main source of growth stimulus caused by HGH cannot be driven infinitely. Growth plate
chondrocytes divide and enlargen (hypertrophy), the surrounding matrix then calcifies and is replaced by bone.
What does this mean for you?
You have a finite amount of said proliferative capacity. When it is exhausted, your growth plates stop being able to make enough new chondrocytes, so linear growth slows down and eventually stops.
That being said, there are a few nuances in the HGH cope. Age of use, amount, duration and genetics. If your body dosen’t produce enough chondrocytes you will not grow, and that‘s just genetic. Things like Aromatase Inhibitors are used for lengthening the lifespan of growth plates and how long they stay open. This isn‘t very smart though as estrogen is important for brain developement and also muscle at that.
If all your using is HGH and you don‘t have an abundance of estrogen, you will quite literally make yourself retarded long term.
HGH can make you taller depending on a lot of circumstances, it‘s just not worth it for most people / there is a genetic limit to how much growth can be achieved by using it.
The functions were kept quite simple. I‘ll also link all the studies used to make this thread below.
GHKCU is a copper peptide wich is mainly known for its collagen signaling and increasing properties.
Why does it not work for acne?
Acne is not mainly caused by having not enough collagen.
The main acne drivers are
It does not significantly reduce sebum or sebum production, it does not help with follicular shedding, it‘s not a strong anti cutibacterium acnes treatment (and no, „balancing bacteria“ does not mean anything)
Its anti inflammatory effect is too non specific.
There is alot more to cover than just these 2. they are the ones I see being tossed around the most.
If you want another thread on a specific compound let me know.
HGH for height growth
HGH for height growth is one of the biggest copes in this forum. The main issue with HGH is that the main issue is that growth plates have finite proliferative capacity, meaning the main source of growth stimulus caused by HGH cannot be driven infinitely. Growth plate
chondrocytes divide and enlargen (hypertrophy), the surrounding matrix then calcifies and is replaced by bone.
What does this mean for you?
You have a finite amount of said proliferative capacity. When it is exhausted, your growth plates stop being able to make enough new chondrocytes, so linear growth slows down and eventually stops.
That being said, there are a few nuances in the HGH cope. Age of use, amount, duration and genetics. If your body dosen’t produce enough chondrocytes you will not grow, and that‘s just genetic. Things like Aromatase Inhibitors are used for lengthening the lifespan of growth plates and how long they stay open. This isn‘t very smart though as estrogen is important for brain developement and also muscle at that.
If all your using is HGH and you don‘t have an abundance of estrogen, you will quite literally make yourself retarded long term.
HGH can make you taller depending on a lot of circumstances, it‘s just not worth it for most people / there is a genetic limit to how much growth can be achieved by using it.
The functions were kept quite simple. I‘ll also link all the studies used to make this thread below.
GHKCU for acne
Most people in this forum are aware that GHKCU isn‘t a compound used for things like hormonal acne. Although it‘s still a widespread belief by many uneducated people.
GHKCU is a copper peptide wich is mainly known for its collagen signaling and increasing properties.
Why does it not work for acne?
Acne is not mainly caused by having not enough collagen.
The main acne drivers are
- Excess sebum production
- Inflammation around the (hair) follicle
- Follicular hyperkeratinization (dead skin cells cloggint pores)
- Cutibacterium acnes activity (Bacterial acne)
It does not significantly reduce sebum or sebum production, it does not help with follicular shedding, it‘s not a strong anti cutibacterium acnes treatment (and no, „balancing bacteria“ does not mean anything)
Its anti inflammatory effect is too non specific.
There is alot more to cover than just these 2. they are the ones I see being tossed around the most.
If you want another thread on a specific compound let me know.
I‘ll also only be going over 2 parts of orthodontics as it‘s also a huge field with a large variety of methodology and treatment plans.
There are many different types of palatal expanders, for this thread I‘ll reference implant supported expanders (screwed into the maxilla, i.e marpe, sarpe etc.)
Before I get into the explanation, I want to mention that palatal expanders can be benificial in alot of use cases, especially depending on age and goals.
Firstly, we need to establish the most common use cases of a MARPE device.
The main uses of implant supported expanders are
Why a palatal expander isn‘t a good idea if you don‘t fit the main uses
Getting a palatal expander when you don‘t have any related bite issues will almost always result in a misaligned bite. Your orthodontist will not be able to give you the results you want without making your bite worse, because expansion over the mandible can cause dental tipping or something like a posterior scissor bite.
Some of the main issues even if you have the dental/palatal need for an expanding device:
The best case scenario for someone with a normal bite looking into a palatal expander is mildly expanding your palate while maintaining a stable bite for little or no difference in appearance. Alongside that, if your maxilla isn‘t projected forwards, expanding your palate can make your face look even flatter.
Subtopic: Headgear with a palatal expander
Another big trend in the looksmax community right now is getting headgear with a palatal expander as an adult for forward growth.
This topic is quite simple.
The first issue is that a MARPE or SARPE device targets the midpalatal suture that targets width, not the circummaxillary suture wich targets length.
The second one is that your circummaxillary suture fuses relatively early on. Studies show a range of 16-18 as the average.
The conlusion is that your circummaxillary suture is still fused and will not move significantly. Yes it can adjust to your midpaltal suture and zygomaticomaxillary suture changes, that dosen‘t mean the suture is open and gives reliable growth.
The misconseption stems from the combination being used in children, where it is in fact helpful. A majority of the anecdotal evidence shown by people are soft tissue and inner dental changes, not actual maxillary forward growth.
Again, there are many nuances in both of these topics, but for most it‘s quite useless and not worth the ROI. The time and money for a potential looksmin or no changes isn‘t worth it.
Palatal expanders
Palatal expanders are some of the most popular orthognatic devices right now. I‘ll be going over why they can be a looksmin and also the use of headgear with palatal expanders.
There are many different types of palatal expanders, for this thread I‘ll reference implant supported expanders (screwed into the maxilla, i.e marpe, sarpe etc.)
Before I get into the explanation, I want to mention that palatal expanders can be benificial in alot of use cases, especially depending on age and goals.
Firstly, we need to establish the most common use cases of a MARPE device.
The main uses of implant supported expanders are
- Posterior crossbite
- Narrow maxillary palate
- Sometimes nasal airway restrictions related to a narrow nasal floor
Why a palatal expander isn‘t a good idea if you don‘t fit the main uses
Getting a palatal expander when you don‘t have any related bite issues will almost always result in a misaligned bite. Your orthodontist will not be able to give you the results you want without making your bite worse, because expansion over the mandible can cause dental tipping or something like a posterior scissor bite.
Some of the main issues even if you have the dental/palatal need for an expanding device:
- Nose/Alar base widening
- Enhancing pre-existing asymmemtries
- Bad bizygo to bigonial ratio
The best case scenario for someone with a normal bite looking into a palatal expander is mildly expanding your palate while maintaining a stable bite for little or no difference in appearance. Alongside that, if your maxilla isn‘t projected forwards, expanding your palate can make your face look even flatter.
Subtopic: Headgear with a palatal expander
Another big trend in the looksmax community right now is getting headgear with a palatal expander as an adult for forward growth.
This topic is quite simple.
The first issue is that a MARPE or SARPE device targets the midpalatal suture that targets width, not the circummaxillary suture wich targets length.
The second one is that your circummaxillary suture fuses relatively early on. Studies show a range of 16-18 as the average.
The conlusion is that your circummaxillary suture is still fused and will not move significantly. Yes it can adjust to your midpaltal suture and zygomaticomaxillary suture changes, that dosen‘t mean the suture is open and gives reliable growth.
The misconseption stems from the combination being used in children, where it is in fact helpful. A majority of the anecdotal evidence shown by people are soft tissue and inner dental changes, not actual maxillary forward growth.
Again, there are many nuances in both of these topics, but for most it‘s quite useless and not worth the ROI. The time and money for a potential looksmin or no changes isn‘t worth it.
Many new types of cope have been created with the popularisation of looksmaxxing. These „methods“ may have existed before although they werent nearly as mainstream as they are now.
This is quite the retarded segment, but unfortunately I do have to get into these topics as you see multiple people asking if they work daily on this forum.
1. The force required for maxillary movement are nowhere near orthopedic expansion
RME devices can output up to 30 lbs of force on the maxilla 24/7. Your thumbs won‘t. Alongside that you can‘t be doing it 24/7. Including sleep, work/school thats a major amount of time with no pressure on your maxilla.
To summarize:
The roof of your mouth is covered by soft tissue. This tissue can get „compressed“ or inflamed and will look and maybe even feel different. You might feel like you have more space for your tounge because of bone changes, when in reality only the palatal soft tissue changed.
That‘s basically all I‘ll be mentioning for thumbpulling, as it‘s quite braindead anyways.
Note: This also heavily contradicts orthodontic treatment. I‘ll be linking midpalatal and circummaxillary suture fusion studies wich tie into the orthognatic segment.
This is quite the retarded segment, but unfortunately I do have to get into these topics as you see multiple people asking if they work daily on this forum.
Thumb pulling
Thumb pulling is the idea of pulling your maxilla to increase width and or forward growth. People who believe this works claim that the effects are similar to that of a palatal expander, because the function is „similar“.
1. The force required for maxillary movement are nowhere near orthopedic expansion
RME devices can output up to 30 lbs of force on the maxilla 24/7. Your thumbs won‘t. Alongside that you can‘t be doing it 24/7. Including sleep, work/school thats a major amount of time with no pressure on your maxilla.
To summarize:
- You cannot apply enough force consistently
- You cannot maintain the force long enough
- The force is inconsistent
- You don‘t have symmetrical force output on your maxilla
The roof of your mouth is covered by soft tissue. This tissue can get „compressed“ or inflamed and will look and maybe even feel different. You might feel like you have more space for your tounge because of bone changes, when in reality only the palatal soft tissue changed.
That‘s basically all I‘ll be mentioning for thumbpulling, as it‘s quite braindead anyways.
Note: This also heavily contradicts orthodontic treatment. I‘ll be linking midpalatal and circummaxillary suture fusion studies wich tie into the orthognatic segment.
The goal is just to point out the huge amount of methods that don‘t work. I don‘t think anyone should be investing their time or money on things that wouldn‘t benifit them, especially with a possibly limited amount of time.
Do whatever you can to ascend. That‘s what matters.
If anything I said is untrue or not accurate, please let me know and cite the study so I can change or remove it.
All sources are pretty much in order. From the hgh part down to the thumbpulling part.
www.ovid.com
Zygomaticomaxillary suture maturation : Orthodontics and Craniofacial Research
Abstract was not provided for this article.
