DEBATE: Which Is More Important For Achieving Financial Success: Connections/Network or IQ

[chadintraining]

Debate below

Assume one has an avg iq and a good network and the other vice versa, all other factors are the same

I think they are both important, but connections still matter quite a bit more

 

[HimmyButlerV2]

They’re often correlated.

 

[chadintraining]

They’re often correlated.

Yeah

But assuming one has avg iq and a good network and vice versa, assuming all other factors are the same, who do you think will end up becoming more successful

 

[Snicket]

Debate below

Interesting one. I’d say connections has the edge but it relies on luck and incidence of birth more than anything else.

Sustaining these advantages might be hard without a decent IQ - even if they are handed to you on a plate.

A guy with a high IQ and good work ethic + average background can go very far.

 

[VV62]

A decent amount of finance bros have normie level iq but still make 7 figures purely because they knew someone who would get them internships

 

[chadintraining]

A decent amount of finance bros have normie level iq but still make 7 figures purely because they knew someone who would get them internships

I went for connections for this exact reason.

My dad is only a bit above avg in IQ and is quite successful in business due to a good network.

My mom got a very good job at a large company due to her uni network, and she is high iq and this was necessary to get in. Likely wouldn't have a job like that without the network.

 

[Alias!]

Debate below

Assume one has an avg iq and a good network and the other vice versa, all other factors are the same

Connections that’s what Jews do . But you at least need average iq

 

[chadintraining]

They’re often correlated.

Most wealthy people I met are well connected, and usually are fairly intelligent too, but I have met more who are unintelligent than poorly connected.

Hence why I went for connections

 

[chadintraining]

Connections that’s what Jews do . But you at least need average iq

Depending on the field you can maybe get away with being a bit below avg

 

[CorinthianLOX]

With connections and networks you can get into places but with iq you can thrive. Both are good.

 

[Snicket]

Most wealthy people I met are well connected, and usually are fairly intelligent too, but I have met more who are unintelligent than poorly connected.

Hence why I went for connections

I think my nuanced answer is slightly above average IQ + connections > high IQ with no connections

120 IQ + connections blows 140 IQ no connections out of the water imo.

 

[Never Get Up]

Connections and it’s not even close.

 

[chadintraining]

I think my nuanced answer is slightly above average IQ + connections > high IQ with no connections

120 IQ + connections blows 140 IQ no connections out of the water imo.

I have a similar set of beliefs

Meet the first one luckily

 

[Snicket]

Connections and it’s not even close.

Depends on the extremity of connections and wealth.

Brooklyn Beckham is a fucking idiot but can get by.

However, with an affluent middle class background, he’d be fucked.

 

[Snicket]

I have a similar set of beliefs

Meet the first one luckily

I think the ideal balance must be inheriting advantages via connections and then having a sufficiently high IQ to hold onto them.

 

[chadintraining]

I think the ideal balance must be inheriting advantages via connections and then having a sufficiently high IQ to hold onto them.

agreed

 

[HimmyButlerV2]

Yeah

But assuming one has avg iq and a good network and vice versa, assuming all other factors are the same, who do you think will end up becoming more successful

Depends what field tbh.
90% of studies will show you that IQ and success are highly correlated. Water.

However, there was a study of swedish CEOs, and the average was 113. Still above average, but arguably the peak of success, and it was a little less than 1 STD dev above average. The average doctor is likely 115-120, for reference.

I'm trying to get a job in tech. I go to a top university. I'll tell you that there are people who are higher IQ than me, and far more hardworking than me. I know a lot of asian kids, who from day 1 of their lives, are "optimized" to get high paying tech jobs, do well career wise, etc. The ones that do better are higher IQ of course, but even the average ones have a huge head start.

But despite being far lazier, I'm ahead of most, as I made connections with certain profs who used to work in the industry, and this got me good internships.

(Of course, the ones who have very high IQ and work ethic, mog me to shreds regardless of whatever connections. I know an IMO winner who got offered a quant job (often these guys earn 400k+ right out of college), and denied it for a better opportunity. Though, the better opportunity was at a startup, which presumably connections helped him land a role in, and he also helped another high IQ friend of mine get a job at this company)

Often times, you can be very intelligent and hardworking, produce a great product, and it just wasn't the right time for the product/it doesn't have mass appeal, and it doesn't do well. If this happens, you likely won't progress up the career ladder, but someone who is mediocre at their job, yet got lucky or has smart/high up friends, can get attached to a team that does something huge, and gets a promotion.

-- this is all in a technical field, by the way, where you would assume skill matters the most. In non-technical fields, connections/nepotism probably matter even more

Also, keep in mind that IQ still needs to be applied to do well. Even if you are a genius, to progress well in a field you need to put in the work to learn, and consistently produce high quality results.
Someone with sufficient connections, likely will get a job just by doing the bare minimum, and at that point just needs to not do horrible to maintain the job.

Tbh with the way the job market is today I would say connections mog. You have global competition and people studying all the time to get into these positions, as well as foreigners willing to do shit for way less. Of course, if you're Von Neumann or Euler tier IQ, you could probably blow anyone with great connections out of the water, but thats like the equivalent of being Bill Gates son, or the richest Saudi prince. I mentioned the IMO gold medalist earlier, and while he is very smart, way smarter than you or I probably, he partially got there because he had the right environment/school/parents that allowed him to prepare in an optimal manner (aka connections)

 

[HimmyButlerV2]

Interesting one. I’d say connections has the edge but it relies on luck and incidence of birth more than anything else.

Sustaining these advantages might be hard without a decent IQ - even if they are handed to you on a plate.

A guy with a high IQ and good work ethic + average background can go very far.

In the US today, you can live a solidly upper middle class life with 100 IQ and good work ethic.

You can also be rich (though this requires an element of luck) with average IQ, good work ethic, and high social ability. I doubt that the average guy who opened a restaurant, did well, made it into a chain, and made a lot of money, is significantly above average IQ tbh.

 

[Snicket]

In the US today, you can live a solidly upper middle class life with 100 IQ and good work ethic.

You can also be rich (though this requires an element of luck) with average IQ, good work ethic, and high social ability. I doubt that the average guy who opened a restaurant, did well, made it into a chain, and made a lot of money, is significantly above average IQ tbh.

I agree with all of this but the question was about connections vs IQ.

I was just saying that there’s a happy medium between the two.

Inheriting advantages and having the IQ to maintain and take advantage of them is best.

 

[HimmyButlerV2]

I agree with all of this but the question was about connections vs iq.
I was just saying that there’s a happy medium between the two.

I'd lean towards connections there, mainly because, there are a ton of smart people out there. Forget smart, there are a ton of people who from age one work towards grinding, knowing everything, so on.

It is very hard to distinguish yourself from the millions of grinding gooks, even if you are very intelligent. However, if you know someone important, well that gets you a job.

I would say on the higher level then IQ matters more. As in, creative problem solving, which all that grinding can't teach, successful projects etc. Although you do need to be in the right place at the right time, which to a degree requires connections.
Also you can argue a good childhood is "connections" in a way. As in, having parents knowledgeable enough to push you on the right path vs someone with clueless parents.

 

[cute]

Connections are everything in life

 

[Snicket]

I'd lean towards connections there, mainly because, there are a ton of smart people out there. Forget smart, there are a ton of people who from age one work towards grinding, knowing everything, so on.

It is very hard to distinguish yourself from the millions of grinding gooks, even if you are very intelligent. However, if you know someone important, well that gets you a job.

I would say on the higher level then IQ matters more. As in, creative problem solving, which all that grinding can't teach, successful projects etc. Although you do need to be in the right place at the right time, which to a degree requires connections.
Also you can argue a good childhood is "connections" in a way. As in, having parents knowledgeable enough to push you on the right path vs someone with clueless parents.

Again, I agree and in my first post in this thread, I also lean towards connections.

I believe 120IQ + good connections and parenting blows 140 IQ + no connections out of the water.

 

[HimmyButlerV2]

Again, I agree and in my first post in this thread, I also lean towards connections.

I believe 120IQ + good connections and parenting blows 140 IQ + no connections out of the water.

yeah just elaborating because interesting discussion.

Tangentially related, but the whole IQ argument and genetic determinism is something I think about a lot. Generally I will be the first person to tell you how important IQ is, but at the same time, I am in one of the environments where people would expect average IQ to be very high, yet it doesn't seem that far above average tbh.
I mostly see average-slightly above average people with motivation and the right upbringing.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

I agree with all of this but the question was about connections vs IQ.

I was just saying that there’s a happy medium between the two.

Inheriting advantages and having the IQ to maintain and take advantage of them is best.

Good to see you are back

 

[Snicket]

yeah just elaborating because interesting discussion.

Tangentially related, but the whole IQ argument and genetic determinism is something I think about a lot. Generally I will be the first person to tell you how important IQ is, but at the same time, I am in one of the environments where people would expect average IQ to be very high, yet it doesn't seem that far above average tbh.
I mostly see average-slightly above average people with motivation and the right upbringing.

Like you, I learn towards environment with maybe 1 SD above average intelligence.

You’re smarter than 8 in 10 people and can capitalize on inherited advantages and opportunities.

 

[Snicket]

Good to see you are back

Thanks.
I’ll be spending less time here though (I hope).

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

Connections play a more outsized role than IQ does in my opinion. Networking is at the heart of business. If we talk about populations, IQ is a good predictor of success but at very high IQ levels people most probably become researchers which does not pay as well as having a business

 

[Snicket]

Connections play a more outsized role than IQ does in my opinion. Networking is at the heart of business. If we talk about populations, IQ is a good predictor of success but at ver high IQ levels people mpat probably become researchers which does not pay as well as having a business

A lot of it depends on personality traits as well, such as risk aversion and sociability.

There are plenty of high IQ people who aren’t prepared to start a business or don’t have the social skills to command the respect of others.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

A lot of it depends on personality traits as well, such as risk aversion.

Plenty of high IQ people who aren’t prepared to start a business or don’t have the social skills to command the respect of other people.

Yeah, a risk taking man is more likely to go bust or make it big. We see all these college dropouts making it big but rarely hear about thousands who do the same and end up living paycheck to paycheck. Both groups are risk taking and yet one succeeds outright while the opposite happens to the other group

 

[incelhunter]

Depends on the country

More inequality -> network matters more
More egalitarian -> iq matters more

It also depends on the field: eg for tech iq matters more than in finance

 

[Whatever]

Connections and it’s not even close. You have to look at the people who are in the positions to hand out opportunities to begin and advance people’s careers. They will pick someone they know who is competent over even an impressive outsider the vast majority of times. They often even have too many options between people they know and won’t even consider outsiders. It’s not a level playing ground.

I’d say this also goes for social circles and relationships too, in that the social context is more important than your looks or anything else about you on your own.

 

[HimmyButlerV2]

Connections play a more outsized role than IQ does in my opinion. Networking is at the heart of business. If we talk about populations, IQ is a good predictor of success but at very high IQ levels people most probably become researchers which does not pay as well as having a business

That's a good one actually
I've often read about the 2SD communication gap for example, and I didn't really buy it

My perspective was that very intelligent people were still people, maybe thought was more complex and abstract, and processing power was faster, but it wasn't to the point where you couldn't communicate with others

Many personality traits are correlated with IQ though. Criminality and psychopathy generally negatively correlated if I remember right.
Interestingly, contrary to what most people believe, IQ is actually negatively correlated with neuroticism, and smarter people are generally happier. Funnily enough, IQ is positively correlated to substance abuse. In my head I always thought that something like alcohol was the quickest, easiest IQ test, because of how much it can destroy your life, but intelligent people are actually more likely to drink/tend to drink more. Maybe religious people not drinking offsets it, idk.

But anyway, the point I'm getting to, is I wonder how IQ influences motivations. Personally I am focused on things like legacy, but I also care a lot about money and freedom. But the most intelligent people I know are not really as focused on money, instead they tend to go towards research or obsessing over some interest.

For a while, I wanted to go into academia, specifically physics, but I quit because I realized that I didn't really have what it takes to make a major influence. I'd at best be part of a team that discovers something useful, and I guess that just bothered my ego.
I've noticed that the very high IQ people aren't really concerned with that, and just enjoy sort of autistically focusing on the field that interests them.

 

[Snicket]

Depends on the country

More inequality -> network matters more
More egalitarian -> iq matters more

It also depends on the field: eg for tech iq matters more than in finance

Connections matter in tech too.

Just making your application visible to an employer can come down to connections in the right place.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

That's a good one actually
I've often read about the 2SD communication gap for example, and I didn't really buy it

My perspective was that very intelligent people were still people, maybe thought was more complex and abstract, and processing power was faster, but it wasn't to the point where you couldn't communicate with others

Many personality traits are correlated with IQ though. Criminality and psychopathy generally negatively correlated if I remember right.
Interestingly, contrary to what most people believe, IQ is actually negatively correlated with neuroticism, and smarter people are generally happier. Funnily enough, IQ is positively correlated to substance abuse. In my head I always thought that something like alcohol was the quickest, easiest IQ test, because of how much it can destroy your life, but intelligent people are actually more likely to drink/tend to drink more. Maybe religious people not drinking offsets it, idk.

But anyway, the point I'm getting to, is I wonder how IQ influences motivations. Personally I am focused on things like legacy, but I also care a lot about money and freedom. But the most intelligent people I know are not really as focused on money, instead they tend to go towards research or obsessing over some interest.

For a while, I wanted to go into academia, specifically physics, but I quit because I realized that I didn't really have what it takes to make a major influence. I'd at best be part of a team that discovers something useful, and I guess that just bothered my ego.
I've noticed that the very high IQ people aren't really concerned with that, and just enjoy sort of autistically focusing on the field that interests them.

Good comment. If you want an example of a famous high IQ person who abused substances, there is no better example than the famous mathematician Paul Erdos

 

[liberiangrimreaper]

I better not see any retard claim “both” or the incredibly flawed IQ.

Connections are everything when it comes to success in practically every field.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

Also image matters at the top of the top. I was a sexual deviant when I was alive but people still voted for me for Presidency because I knew how to maintain my image

That's a good one actually
I've often read about the 2SD communication gap for example, and I didn't really buy it

My perspective was that very intelligent people were still people, maybe thought was more complex and abstract, and processing power was faster, but it wasn't to the point where you couldn't communicate with others

Many personality traits are correlated with IQ though. Criminality and psychopathy generally negatively correlated if I remember right.
Interestingly, contrary to what most people believe, IQ is actually negatively correlated with neuroticism, and smarter people are generally happier. Funnily enough, IQ is positively correlated to substance abuse. In my head I always thought that something like alcohol was the quickest, easiest IQ test, because of how much it can destroy your life, but intelligent people are actually more likely to drink/tend to drink more. Maybe religious people not drinking offsets it, idk.

But anyway, the point I'm getting to, is I wonder how IQ influences motivations. Personally I am focused on things like legacy, but I also care a lot about money and freedom. But the most intelligent people I know are not really as focused on money, instead they tend to go towards research or obsessing over some interest.

For a while, I wanted to go into academia, specifically physics, but I quit because I realized that I didn't really have what it takes to make a major influence. I'd at best be part of a team that discovers something useful, and I guess that just bothered my ego.
I've noticed that the very high IQ people aren't really concerned with that, and just enjoy sort of autistically focusing on the field that interests them.

 

[incelhunter]

Goo

I better not see any retard claim “both” or the incredibly flawed IQ.

Connections are everything when it comes to success in practically every field.

Good luck doing well in tech, law or medicine without iq

 

[liberiangrimreaper]

Goo

Good luck doing well in tech, law or medicine without iq

That’s not the point. You could have a 293 IQ and still end up homeless if you don’t have someone to connect you to be hired by profitable tech companies, law firms, etc. The market is highly competitive and everyone is smart; having an high IQ is nothing when everyone already does.

 

[Swarthy Knight]

Both ofc but connections generally mog and has a higher ceiling

 

[chadintraining]

Depends on the country

More inequality -> network matters more
More egalitarian -> iq matters more

It also depends on the field: eg for tech iq matters more than in finance

agreed

 

[incelhunter]

That’s not the point. You could have a 293 IQ and still end up homeless if you don’t have someone to connect you to be hired by profitable tech companies, law firms, etc. The market is highly competitive and everyone is smart; having an high IQ is nothing when everyone already does.

You are a fucking idiot
I got hired by a tech company with ZERO connections and no job experience, and so did most of my classmates and coworkers
Please go outside for once and stop consuming blackpill brainrot

 

[liberiangrimreaper]

You are a fucking idiot
I got hired by a tech company with ZERO connections and no job experience, and so did most of my classmates and coworkers
Please go outside for once and stop consuming blackpill brainrot

Country? Profitability?

+ I don’t fucking care about your experience, this is in general, IN 2025 AMERICA.

I’m the last person you should tell to “go outside and stop consuming bp brainrot.

 

[chadintraining]

You are a fucking idiot
I got hired by a tech company with ZERO connections and no job experience, and so did most of my classmates and coworkers
Please go outside for once and stop consuming blackpill brainrot

I would say tech is one of those fields that is less reliant on connections compared to something like finance