Destroying TheBuffoon "God doesn't exist trust me bro" MEGATHREAD

MaghrebGator

MaghrebGator

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Introduction

This is the ultimate god doesn’t exist proof thread. I will be providing proof (mostly) here that it is not possible for a god to exist. This is also intended for users who don’t have a great understanding of the subject and want to learn more about it, as well as for the high iq atheist users who just want their biases confirmed JFL.

This was inspired by @mogstars recent low iq (JFL) thread on life is cucked if you’re an atheist. I’m tired of religious cucks on this forum waffling: Muh Atheist low iq, Muh Atheist have no morality or no sense of purpose JFL, still makes me laugh, and they give no proof for it either, just wafflers. People have been claiming this about atheism for as long as it’s been around, so these points are really nothing new and can be explained. I aim to try to stop these low iq threads. Or if they will continue at least have good arguments.
This is completely true. Atheists have no sense of morality nor purpose (Apart from the inherent one which only Islam addresses among the big religions, the Fitrah or Natural Inclination). Atheism (Or really polytheism because atheism isn't more than making your own desires/whatever it is why you disbelief in One God as your new God) is a rotten ideology that existed since almost the beggining of times, and NEVER prospered in any civilization that seeked to reproduce and extend their lineage because the end line would have been ALWAYS the same. DESTRUCTION OF THE HUMAN RACE because of lack of sense of purpose dedicated to a life of hedonism and after the failure of hedonism the switch to utter oblivion and hopelesness.

You know why you never heard about an atheist society? The same exact reason why you never heard about an extremely peaceful society, because if such cases of small populations even had a chance to be THEY CEASED TO EXIST completely within years in a world with extremely low age expectancy.

The only atheist society you will ever hear of is the unique case of the current western civilization, which will also cease to exist in it's current form during the next years, or otherwise dissapear.
One thing to note is that I am writing this thread from an unbiased perspective (some may have a hard time believing this given my strong atheistic stances on this forum lol) but nevertheless I have obviously considered both sides of the argument before making this thread, and I came to the conclusion atheism > religion/deism. Don’t make the mistake of thinking this was a preconceived confirmation bias decision as I am well aware of these biases and try my best for them not to hinder my reasoning. If there was more proof god existed I would simply be making this thread but for the other side.
Completely false. You are anything but unbiased and anyone with half a brain cell can see it. It's a nice bed to try and slither into it but to the semi trained eye you are not but an useless demagogue who is trying to gain empathy and likes in a involuntary celibates forum, which is pretty much some of the lowest one can get.

Is this the purpose you were speaking about before???
Another thing to note is that it shouldn’t matter if god doesn’t exist. People often fall into depression after losing their faith (just like I did). The thing is that atheism can give meaning, purpose everything that religion can. It just can’t give life after death. The thing is though imagine if everyone had the perfect life they wanted from birth to death, there wouldn’t really be a need for an afterlife. In my opinion the concept of an afterlife only exists because of evil, which is an intrinsic part of humans. People have a hard time accepting that and feel the desire for justice or an afterlife which can be devoid of any evil. Every human struggles with this no matter how much they will try to Larp. Just accept it the way it is.
It's a completely empty line of argumentation trying to justify your sense of the afterlife not existing because of "Muh feelings, good and evil".

The fact that this life itself exist is one of the biggest proofs for the afterlife. This life as we know it shouldn't exist, it doesn't hold sense, however it does and ot exists against what seemed all odds and challenging all possibilities by means of almost impossible mathematical equations that could have only been designed by someone in the way even a toddler perceives the world.

Before trying to explain an afterlife, i would suggest first to try to explain this life first, something which your colleagues (Or should i say masters) have failed during the ages and whose only arguments have been "Science will reveal it one day" or "Chemicals and particles smacking eachother and coincidentally all the variables gave life even though it was nearly impossible. If you dare to challenge this then know it could have been any other way dude". Yes, any other way life didn't exist, yet here we are, in the almost impossible scenario and the miracle that life exists and we are discussing it.

The Qur'an in it's magnificency makes this argument (Interpretation of the meaning):

"He brings the living out of the dead and brings the dead out of the living and brings to life the earth after its lifelessness. And thus will you be brought out."​

The way I define god is in the traditional sense of omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresent and omnibenevolent. If you are unaware with those terms just Google them JFL I can’t be asked to explain it on here, but most should.
God is not omnipresent but He sees and is a witness to everything that happens.
Brief discussion on religions

As some of you may know I used to be Muslim my whole life until I left It only last year. The aim of this thread isn’t to disprove religions but to disprove the concept of god as a whole. I happen to think Christianity is a decent religion and many users here are obviously well versed in it and believe it is real (obviously not including Old Testament atrocities, there aren’t really any good apologetics for those as well, as well as how confusing the trinity is). But aside from that it’s alright. My personal opinion on Christianity is that Jesus wasn’t resurrected, but there is a decent plausibility that he was resurrected, and is therefore god. I can’t be asked to go into that here though because it will just take up too much time.
Ramblings from the basement (Or poloce station, although i hold doubts that something with your intellect or lack thereof would be even allowed in the Zimbabwe law enforcement) trying to gain more empathy and popularity, and also act as this kind of fake neutral character.
It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that Islam is a false religion, but just in case it’s not here is a thread on Reddit (JFL) that does a really good job outlining hadiths and how they disprove Islam. Great apologetics from both sides with unbiased opinions. Most Muslims here will never have heard of these as they are usually hidden by our scholars (obviously). Hence why when you bring these up to Muslims they almost always have never heard them before: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/q47mxhmgdU.
Debunked points thousands of times in this forum itself, let alone in other social media.

Since you present links i present people like Farid Responds, Sapience Institute, Muslim Skeptic, Jake the Metaphysician etc, that destroyed all this 21st century post 2001 garbage propaganda financed by the strongest powers in the world and repeated as parrots by their subjects and online prostitutes.
The funny thing is tbh I sometimes think about how it would be hilarious if everyone argues over the main 3 Abrahamic religions and the one true religion is just one which no one follows or has heard about JFL, from like 2000+ years ago. Cracks me up thinking about it. But yeh I do think all religions are false.
Another empty argument and misrepresentation which shows a clear lack of understanding of what Islam claims. Already addressed in this place several times.

In Islam we have the best system in this regard. We believe that God sent prophets to all nations, and that he didn’t judge them until He did so. Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): "We sent a messenger to every community, saying, ‘Worship God and shun false gods.’ Among them were some God guided; misguidance took hold of others. So travel through the earth and see what was the fate of those who denied the truth."
In another verse (Interpretation of the meaning): "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger."
The islamic settlement of the matter is clearly the only one that avoids your fallacies and comes from a Just God, who cares about His subjects and offers them Ultimate Justice. Ignorance? Don't worry, your Lord forgives you or judges you after giving you knowledge.

I'd go even further and say Islam is the only religion among the main ones that actually says kids who die before puberty go to paradise as muslims. Something which for some reason other religions couldn't extend their hand for (Only a Merciful God would do so) and let alone the atheist view, which already deems living children holding the same value as a bacteria in you bathroom.
Anyway I have considered most of the arguments for god (some more well versed than others) but I have a pretty good understanding of the apologetics for them and the counter arguments against them. Ones I have studied:
Fine tuning

Ontological

Cosmological

Contingency

Moral

Personal experience

Resurrection

Miracles

There’s way more but I can’t be asked to list them all here or go through with them, as this is a proof god DOESNT exist thread. If you wanna learn them more there are plenty of videos and sources online explaining them. Just be aware that there’s obviously still work being done on all of them and u shouldn’t use this as a baseline for your religious beliefs, which brings me into my first argument against god.
Since seeing this garbage line of the post trying again to collect sympathy and act as if you hold any knowledge you have just made the Megathread of proof for God's existence now a thing in my agenda.

Stay tuned the next weeks.
Lack of evidence?

You probably know that most religious people claim that gods existence is obvious (I don’t think they know what obvious means JFL) but they will usually cite fine tuning argument or Muh look at the trees bullshit for their so called evidence.

Well I’m here to tell you it’s not obvious at all, just because stuff exists doesn’t mean the concept of god (which humans came up with btw) is a real entity manifesting externally from its conceptual standpoint. This is a fallacy but either way, this begs the question of why does god make it so painfully hard to provide any knowledge of his existence (outside of religion)? I’m not referring to divine hiddenness here because this already presupposes god to begin with, this is more along the lines of lack of CONCRETE evidence, one which doesn’t take years of studying and scientific work to arrive at a conclusion, more from a critical thinking standpoint I guess.
This line of concrete evidence for God's existence without any kind of high level scientific investigation already exists and is heavily addressed in Islam. It's called Fitrah or Natural Inclination, and is something that applies to every human being with a sensibly open heart and mind.

The Fitrah is the concept that every human being is born with a inclination to believe in One God.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.
It is narrated that the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: “Every newborn is born in a state of fitrah. His parents make him a Jew, or a Christian, or Magian."

Ibn Taymiyyah said: "Being born on the Fitrah does not necessarily mean that one really believes in Islam at birth, because when Allaah brought us to this life (at birth) we do not know anything. Fitrah refers to having a pure heart which is ready to accept the truth, and that a person would be a Muslim if no one influenced him (while growing up) to change his natural inclination towards Islam."


This gets even deeper when one realizes that the human being, this supreme being on earth, this """animal""" that dominated completely all animals, can't even survive prorperly in a group of he is devoid of any sense of belief and purpose, contrary to millions and millions of other species who are way less intelligent than him. The human being, the only being that believes, yet we are trying to get convinced by edgy teenagers who go around claiming that the only purpose to life is to reproduce and survive, that this sense of belief is meaningless, empty, dumb, product of unguided chemicals and particles if not just a mere consequence.

To go further and prove this, there was a 2 million pound study carried by Oxford university with the purpose to investigate this specific matter, and this were the results

"A three-year international research project, directed by two academics at the University of Oxford, finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife.

The £1.9 million project involved 57 researchers who conducted over 40 separate studies in 20 countries representing a diverse range of cultures.

The studies (both analytical and empirical) conclude that humans are predisposed to believe in God and an afterlife"

Some findings of the Cognition, Religion and Theology Project:

Studies by Emily Reed Burdett and Justin Barrett, from the University of Oxford, suggest that children below the age of five find it easier to believe in some superhuman properties than to understand similar human limitations. Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a box in which she could not see. Children aged three believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers are not all-seeing and all knowing. However, children may continue to believe in all-seeing, all-knowing supernatural agents, such as a god or gods.Experiments involving adults, conducted by Jing Zhu from Tsinghua University (China), and Natalie Emmons and Jesse Bering from The Queen's University, Belfast, suggest that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural 'dualists' finding it easy to conceive of the separation of the mind and the body.


It shouldn’t seem intuitive to people that just by looking around this somehow means that god is real.
It clearly does. Thousands of civilizations who happen to be the only ones who survive a long time enough without the necessity to being extremely numerous to be noticed (Contrary to current western society) are a proof of this.

You want to sell us this devoid of purpose life yet everything i see is purposeful. In fact i challenge you to tell me one thing that is happening which holds absoletuly no purpose nor chain explanation, ONE SINGLE EVENT. But, we are supposed to believe that THE MOST IMPORTANT event, the beggining of everything, was just a mere product of randomness and chance (Two words used to recognize one's ignorance but without sounding ignorant, as both of those words don't exists by themselves to begin with. I recommend Firas Zahabi with Joe Rogan debate Scientific Truth for more depth into this)
We have had stuff which has always mind boggled our intuition and still does to this day (take quantum entanglement as an example). This logically follows that it should be possible for god not to exist and we still have the universe we see today.
No, it doesn't logically at all follow that God shouldn't exist. This is one of the biggest fallacies you have used until now, and you have certainly been breaking some fallacious record prior to this one.

Really what you are saying here is "Since quantum physics and mechanics don't follow the traditional 1+1=2, then God doesn’t exist", as if God wasn't described as a Being completely superior to all of this matters Who created them in the first place, and as if that somehow debunked the fact that everything that happens including the smallest of leaves that falls from the tree follows a chain of command driven with purpose, independently of whether it is driven by a subset of quantum physics elements under the set of traditional witnessable logic that we understand.
This part obviously isn’t conclusive proof it’s just the starting point for further exploration of the subject.

Another point religious people like to bring up is that god has to exist because the universe couldn’t have been brought about accidentally. However this isn’t really true, and seems similar to like an appeal to intuition in them saying god has to exist because there is no evidence against the world not being an accident.
Apart from the fact that this is another heavily rushed reductive conclusion which is not true obviously (Remember people, a false premise is an incorrect proposition that forms the basis of an argument or syllogism. Since the premise {proposition, or assumption} is not correct, the conclusion drawn may be in error). But besides that, i wish you had the same mental fortitude to describe your moral compasses the same.

Everytime someone from you family died, or you go to a cemetery and see someone mourning their son, etc, please, have the mental strenght to tell them/tell yourself in the face that his mere existence was an accident, and same with yours.

However i doubt it, you didn't even had the balls to say that atheists are devoid of any moral compass which is not naturally driven (Whose only explanation is that it comes instinctively from a Creator) in a involuntary celibates thread, let alone to get out of your basement and do so face to face. This showcases again the miserable existence of the atheist, walking shamefully in the street bowing down his head, knowing he is the same as a bacteria in a bathroom, living a life that is empty and useless.
But this is only judged by their own intuition, and any smart person will know our intuition is subject to many biases that are accounted for when coming to conclusions based on independent verifiable evidence. It is certainly plausible that it could have been accidental, especially given the time frame that evolution occurred on and the development of the universe as a whole.
Translation: "I don't have any explanation for belief instincts, so i will hide in randomness and chance and the long history of human civilization praying (Funny enough) that there is a hole of miliseconds that explains why we have such complex belief systems, and why i rely on those instinctive belief interior systems for my morality and overall daily life"

Ladies and gentlemen, this brings us to the cruz of everything with this user. The other day he confessed that his reason for atheism was that he didn’t get his churro wet with a woman "Muh because of religion". He said and i quote from the atheist hero, this "walking learned philosopher" who "read every religious book there is", TheBuffdon860: "Religion in general is dogshit, but Islam is takes it to another level. Could have lost my virginity time and time again if it wasn’t for this cuck religion"

It always boils down to this with these people. Pure emotion, zero logic, zero mental strenght, zero anything with real value.

It's the famous paradox all over again. "I destroy a house in the last party i had (Or want to have) and my landlord comes to whom i own everything and he asks me for explanations. I have therefore two options: 1-Asking forgiveness, pay reparations, recognize my mistakes, own up, make an effort and improve myself. 2- Deny that the house is owned by the landlord by all means possible, even if it is written on every single square meter of the house (Atheism)
If we are talking about the Big Bang however things become a little more obscure, and it is certainly arrogant for someone to claim that this couldn’t have been accidental when we have no idea if that’s truly the case or not. Natural mechanistic forces are not dictated by any sort of agency like humans are dictated by agency, this means that it is possible (maybe not plausible though) that it could have been accidental.
Theorizing without any basis about that which is heavily primitive on it's knowledge. All you have really.
Problem of evil

This is the most intuitively plausible argument against gods existence in general, and also in my own personal estimation, the main likelihood that god doesn’t exist. Certainly most religious people have doubts with this but usually tend to gloss over it, that is the religious mindset.

The general consensus in philosophy (as of right now) is that it is not logically impossible for god to exist given evil
Basically recognizing that you argument is completely rotten from the beggining, and that it does not prove anything at all because it has been destroyed since centuries by now.
, but evidentially implausible that he would exist given the amount of evil we see in the world (according to atheist philosophers at least).
They don't even believe in evil so who cares about what atheist philosophers believe? For them evil doesn’t exist, it's a moral construct, a lie, same as good. They themselves give no value to their words (Except to gain money of course)
Obviously it still plausible god would have reasons to allow evil to occur, such as overcoming the pain and being a better person on the other side or affecting someone else in that same manner. However it seems intuitively implausible that certain evils god would allow if he is all good as defined.
What certain evils?? Do you have a scale as an atheist??? You don't believe in evil

We believers and muslims in specific do have scales of evil in which all case scenarios are contemplated and explained.

Also it's funny that you can't even realize your own contradictions within few lines. For once you say "It seems intuitively implausible for God to allow certain evils to occur" but then your entire argument relies on human intuition, which is something that as proven above leads to the existence of God and an afterlife being true as proven by the above comments and studies posted.
This is where there is inherently more room for intuition, as evil is more of an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone’s own perception than just an independent reviewed study (which we don’t really have much of anyway for this problem).
This is not our point of view. Again you sre misrepresenting completely our position and mixing it up with yours.

YOU are the one as an atheist who believes evim "is more lf an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone's own perception"

WE believe that evil is clearly defined by God in His scriptures and revelations, period. Same with good.
I won’t be tackling this problem from a scholarly perspective as it’s mostly just brain rot. The way I like to tackle this problem is sampling different case studies of evil across human history and assigning them a factor out of 10 based on their intuitive responses they trigger in humans.
Irrelevant as first, any study that tries to so will get vastly different responses from civilization to civilization (Just look at homosexuality, which is highly shunned upon in 85% of the world while considered one of the greatest evils and accepted and celebrated the west).

All your argument will be based on made up rating scales of good and evil based on your interpretation and i can see it already.
This is because there isn’t really any other good way of tackling this problem besides intuitive philosophical thinking.
There clearly is, but you are playing sneaky for anyone who is ignorant. You are sticking with your particular definition that all evil is instinctive somehow and that's the only way to define it. As i said, evil is already defined for us people who believe in religions, especially monotheistic ones. We don't adhere to these empty standards.

No doubt that evil is detectable instinctively, same as good (Greatly affected by the Fitrah), but it is so vastly variable if you just rely on instincts (Which are also irremediably affected by several other events like people and society) that you could pick up 5 psychos together and for them killing a hobo would not be remotely evil to begin with.
Obviously if you wanted to conclude whether god does exist for sure, you would have to sample case studies of every single human in history and also rank each of their individual experiences of evil out of a factor of 10. You would also have to have every single human ever complete this task, as to limit individual biases. A confidence test or an average of these would probably give you a likely estimate of whether god exists or not. Obviously this is impossible so we can try this on a much less scale.
False. You wouldn't have only to do that, but also to learn the entirety of human history when you can't even know who stole your banana from the fridge, you would need to descipher all the enviroment of every single individual, all the people he hang out with, every single of his interactions and see how they affected his views, make extremely deep analysis of his thoughts with technology we don't possess (And probably we will never possess), etc

Yes, basically you want the entire blueprint of humanity, an Ultimate Book. Basically you are recognizing the necessity of an Ultimate Guide to define Good and Evil. This as religious people we already have, we muslims call it Qur'an and it explains to us what is good and evil, how we should govern ourselves, etc.

You really are critizicing us for adhering to that which you lack and wish you had. A code of life that gives purpose.
For example:
Not getting the cake you wanted for your birthday is intuitively evil, but on an extremely minimal scale of perhaps a 0.13/10. Obviously this is autistic as fuck and no one thinks like this but we are trying to logically deduce whether god exists so we have to think like this. Lmao imagine if god exists and he’s autistic, ultimate JFL
You are so funny bro look at how in laughing...
However impaling someone and then raping their dead body would have a much higher scale of around an 8.7/10 (intuitively). This would be different based on everyone’s different level of intuition but somewhere around there. This is why this experiment is SO SO hard.
"SO So hard"

Translation: "I have no idea of what i'm doing and what to use as a starting point because as an atheist i lack any sense of morality and purpose"
We have no way of knowing as humans who’s intuition is more plausible based on perceptions of evil. Certainly, a three year old child may think that the example I gave has an intuitive level of evil of about a 10, whereas Ramirez may think it is about a -1 (JFL RR). This is why I believe it is impossible for us to know for certainty why evil exists and what constitutes as evil based on mere perception, but we can always make a logical inference and be correct (hopefully).
Just the hopefully part completely debunks every inch or iota of certainty your argument might have remotely hold
JFL just imagine In reality if evil was actually good and we were just progressing backwards morally instead of forward. This is definitely not impossible but highly implausible.
Irrelevant. You don't believe in Good and Evil and the only way for them to exist is if there was an Ultimate Judge who defines them properly.
Now for most people, a 10 would probably be along the lines of the greatest evils of all time, say unit 731, holocaust, torture of Junko Furuta. These seem intuitively impossible to most humans as to be anything lower than a 10 on the scale, but let’s say a 9.5 just to be generous to the more desensitised scums on this forum JFL. It does seem intuitively impossible for an all loving god to allow something like torture of Junko Furuta to happen (btw if you’re gonna look this up be warned it’ll probably ruin your day), especially when it resulted in her death and there was no benefit to gain from it for her (or anyone for that matter). Most people who come across this would logically conclude that god is a scum who allowed an innocent girl to get brutally tortured for something like his own sadistic pleasure, which makes no sense.
False. Too many fake premises as usual.

For once, you are the one who believes that all those evil acts you describe are not even evil, they are simply acts that happened and you insinctively individualistically (Supposedly, at least that's what you claim) perceive them as evil whereas the japanese and germans, two of the most "advanced" civilizations in history according to materialistic standards, and were heavily inspired by prominent atheists like Nietchzche, didn't perceive them as such but as an ultimate good.

Really the "Most people part is such an empty argument". Most people could be convinced within 6 months (Don't even doubt this) of current media propaganda that cannibalism is actually good (This study has already been done by the way by a recently famous spanish general).

Most people in Israel hate Palestinians and see them as "human animals". Most people in Nazi Germany hated the jews. This most people dynamic is a waste of time and you are basing your entire argument on it.

As religious people we don't believe that evil doesn’t gave a purpose.

In Islam, paired with the above mentioned ignorance verses, we also believe that the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: "Wondrous is the affair of the believer for there is good for him in every matter and this is not the case with anyone except the believer. If he is happy, then he thanks Allah and thus there is good for him, and if he is harmed, then he shows patience and thus there is good for him."
Islam is the only main religion which addresses the Problem of Evil directly.
Allah says in the Qur'an (Interpretation of the meaning): And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
This leads us to the blatant assumption and contradiction in the entirety of your argument. You assume that an afterlife where proper justice will apply doesn’t exist.

I could understand this line of argumentation with someone who believes in Karma or any sort of justice concept in which such is served exclusively in this life. But for someone who believes in an afterlife in which accounts will be settled based on what happens in this life??? What's even more amazing, is that your entire argument is based on "instictively" describing and rating evil, yet YOU DENY THE INSTINCTIVE NECESSITY AND BELIEF OF AN AFTERLIFE, already proven above by the famous Oxford study and by the history of humdreds of civilizations set apart which held the same belief.

The basis of your argument is this sort of pseudoinvented morality rating scale based on extremely subjective human instinct but then you scratch all human instinct and it's predisposition of belief in an afterlife once it doesn't serve your purpose of denying a Just God. It's like playing a basketball match but you do it without the basket because it doesn't serve your purpose since you know you are doomed to lose the game in any scenario.

Allah describes your kind in the best of words in His Holy Book (Interpretation of the meaning): And they denied and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement.

Another thing is this would also affect someone who is looking for answers to this problem. Imagine if they came across this story and got traumatised and then subsequently lost their faith in god. Seems like a pretty stupid and useless thing for god to do to allow that to happen.
Ireelevant. God gives us free will and tests us on it. We are not angels who follow all the commands of God, we are given the option to be better than angels or worse than animals depending on our decisions, and have better or worse rewards than them in our afterlife.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): Do people think once they say, “We believe,” that they will be left without being put to the test? Or do the evildoers ˹simply˺ think that they will escape Us? How wrong is their judgment! Whoever hopes for the meeting with Allah, ˹let them know that˺ Allah’s appointed time is sure to come. He is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. We have commanded people to honour their parents. But if they urge you to associate with Me what you have no knowledge of, then do not obey them. To Me you will ˹all˺ return, and then I will inform you of what you used to do.
Obviously as time progresses and more evil occurs, this gives us a greater intuitive inference to make about whether god does exist or not, and for me it seems more implausible than plausible that he does exist based on this problem, albeit not impossible.
Whatever it seems to you is completely irrelevant and not only that, but baseless as already proven.
The common apologetic response to this argument is that god does allow it happen, because of human free will etc etc. let’s just assume that free will does exist for the sake of the argument (obviously not something we can ever know but still). The main thing for me is that this doesn’t take away from the intrinsic suffering of said person who is still experiencing the state of evil, just because someone else’s free will allows them to act on that decision. Suffering is still a mental state at the end of the day, and just because someone has free will this doesn’t really prove anything to do with the argument.
Free will allows both good and bad to happen. God commands good to happen and forbids bad, makes rulings based on such and promoting the first.

Anything outside that is not free will. Funny that this comes from the people who constantly champion "Freedom and liberty" but when they are given the option they cry because it doesn't fit their purposes and desires during that specific moment
Argument from eternal consciousness

This is the argument from eternal consciousness against gods existence. This isn’t a scholarly work it’s just an argument that I made up myself JFL, but it does have a high intrinsic plausibility factor, according to me at least.

Argument is basically:

P1: Gods existence is either mechanically determined, or consciously determined
P2: if gods existence is mechanically determined, then god can’t exist (as defined)

P3: gods existence is mechanically determined
God is not made up of parts. We believe that God has hands, a face, etc, (Depending on the school of thought), but we don't believe those can be considered parts at all but only a Unique One Being.

Allah says: "He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent; and He has full knowledge of all things"

We believe that Allah is Al Ahad (The Unique), and He says (Interpretation of the meaning): There is nothing like Him, for He (alone) is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.”
And He also says (Interpretation of the meaning): Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
Ibn Taymiyyah said: "The word “body” is very general. It could refer to something that was put together, of which the parts were separate then they were put together; or something that can be divided and separated into parts; or something that consists of physical material and an image; or something that consists of single particles that are put together, but Allah, may He be exalted, is far above all that; or something that was separate then came together; or something that can be divided and separated, meaning that one part of the thing separates from another part; or it may indicate some other meaning that refers to something that is put together – which is impossible in the case of Allah."
Conc: therefore god can’t exist
It’s important to note that this argument makes the case of gods existence being impossible due to a logical contradiction with his attributes, not an argument of simply trying to deduce whether god does exist or not based on understanding of reality (take fine tuning as an example), but that the concept of god itself is fundamentally impossible, be it deistic or theistic.
The argument is basically stemming from the contingency argument, which is usually the most plausible argument for gods existence according to majority of philosophers.
The contingency argument is one of the golden bullets. The argument that simply can't be debunked by any current means. Will be addressed in another thread Insha Allah.
If you want to research this before hand that would probably be a good idea. It comes to the conclusion that god must exist because there has to be a necessary foundation to reality, an eternal agent which has always existed and brought about the universe. Obviously there’s a lot more to it but it’s mostly brain rot. My personal opinion however is that it’s quite likely that this argument is true, at least a factor of 8 (which is very high).
Basically you are recognizing that God exists without doing so.

All your thread is like this.
The main thing I’m trying to tackle here is the nature of this necessary existence, because the contingency argument doesn’t tackle that. This is more of an argument for deism but who cares it still counts as god (not in the traditional sense but just in general) it can still be used for the theistic god as well, but I would use different arguments to disprove that. The main point is that this entities existence would only be governed by mechanism or by agency. My argument is that it cannot be governed by agency.

Obviously it’s crazy to think about how something has always existed and how that’s even possible, because it breaks our intuition, so this might be hard but bear with me: for something to be eternal, that must mean that it’s existence is governed by it’s own intrinsic nature, and nothing external to it. Now I don’t think that it’s possible for a conscious being to exist necessarily, as mechanism seems fundamental.
You destroyed your entire argument with one word, "seems".
For something to have existed eternally and be conscious seems like a major contradiction. Consciousness entails agency, basically meaning that the being in question is alive and able to make decisions. But how can this be the case with an eternal existence. Agency requires the precondition of a decision to necessitate its existence, but since this being has always existed, how is it possible for it to make the decision for itself to exist, as the choice for it to exist must be preceded by a decision to result in that choice and then subsequently it’s existence.
Your entire argument is destroyed with the word "Agency" and the definition you give to it, which is a misrepresentation that makes it seem as if we believe God is acting with the permission of another being (Something which would lead to an impossible Infinite Regress which would lead to believe in the existence of an Ultimate Creator as the only credible argument) and also based on that God is inside and limited by time. We believe God is Eternal and is not limited by time, and we also believe that this concept cannot be completely conceived by beings who are stucked inside time like us, but only thought and reflected upon. This is proof of the superiority of God in regards to humankind and to creation if anything, not the contrary.
But if it’s eternal, it cannot make the decision to exist since it has always existed.
God is not limited by time and doesn’t have to make a decision to exist. You are limited by time and you are making God a human being who is also limited by time to fit your argument. One of the contentions against Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) being God by the way
This plausibly leads to the conclusion that it’s existence must be mechanical, as mechanism would entail it’s eternal state of existence, being governed by some mechanism which in and of itself means that this being has existed forever. Another thing is that if this being is conscious, it must have the ability to decide to cease existing, otherwise it’s not conscious or an agent.
No, He is not inside time. He doesn't have to "push a button" or "decide" to cease existing because those concepts are outside of Him, He is not subject to them like we are.
But obviously this is a contradiction if it’s eternal, it must have a mechanism which stops it from existing as it has to exist by necessity (it’s non existence is impossible in every possible state of affairs).
Yes, His non existence is impossible, therefore His existence is Neceessary

Impossible: not possible; unable to be, exist, happen, etc. unable to be done, performed, effected, etc.
Necessary: determined, existing, or happening by natural laws or predestination; inevitable.
It doesn't have any mechanism to cease existing because He is outside time. This is really the "God can't lift a rock stronger than him that He created" argument

This argument is not valid at all because the power of Allaah is not connected to irrationalities and contradictions. God won't do anything that goes against His attributes.
People may argue that gods existence is dictated mechanically, but it still has the conscious ability to do things. This seems more like special pleading though. If I just have given an argument as to why it can’t be conscious, then that means it’s not conscious JFL. And then ultimately the discussion becomes pointless because it’s impossible to know the true nature of this entity. This is an example of how our intuition can be broken with thought experiments like these, which is why a belief in god should never be rational in my opinion (at least for high iq thinkers I’m not talking about the average person here).
Calling yourself an "High IQ thinker" is the biggest overstatement i have seen since the "Most moral army in the world" claim made by the israelis
People need god and will always need god,
Yes. And that's why atheism is deemed to never prosper and dissapear.

Just the fact that we need God to prosper and we know we need Him, is a proof of His existence to anyone with a sane intellect.

but we’re interested in whether this so called being actually exists in reality.
But my argument would be that this facilitates a lack of belief in a god, due to these reasons. But I’m interested to hear peoples opinions on this argument because I’ve never seen this discussed online before, so let me know your thoughts (from both sides). I’m open to anyone trying to disprove what I’ve said (obviously given good reason) as I’m intellectually honest and open to worldview changes.
Translation: "Bla bla bla i'm so open minded bla bla bla give me like give me react give me validation in an incel forum"

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I won't fall into the trap next time but this was a message for all the failures and trash cans that will ever dare to challenge me and put on the line my knowledge again with this kind of rethoric
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Bookmarked for later, if this is actually a good response then I congratulate you, you did what all the other religious wafflers failed to do, which was actually respond to my thread 👍
 
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This is completely true. Atheists have no sense of morality nor purpose (Apart from the inherent one which only Islam addresses among the big religions, the Fitrah or Natural Inclination). Atheism (Or really polytheism because atheism isn't more than making your own desires/whatever it is why you disbelief in One God as your new God) is a rotten ideology that existed since almost the beggining of times, and NEVER prospered in any civilization that seeked to reproduce and extend their lineage because the end line would have been ALWAYS the same. DESTRUCTION OF THE HUMAN RACE because of lack of sense of purpose dedicated to a life of hedonism and after the failure of hedonism the switch to utter oblivion and hopelesness.

You know why you never heard about an atheist society? The same exact reason why you never heard about an extremely peaceful society, because if such cases of small populations even had a chance to be THEY CEASED TO EXIST completely within years in a world with extremely low age expectancy.

The only atheist society you will ever hear of is the unique case of the current western civilization, which will also cease to exist in it's current form during the next years, or otherwise dissapear.

Completely false. You are anything but unbiased and anyone with half a brain cell can see it. It's a nice bed to try and slither into it but to the semi trained eye you are not but an useless demagogue who is trying to gain empathy and likes in a involuntary celibates forum, which is pretty much some of the lowest one can get.

Is this the purpose you were speaking about before???

It's a completely empty line of argumentation trying to justify your sense of the afterlife not existing because of "Muh feelings, good and evil".

The fact that this life itself exist is one of the biggest proofs for the afterlife. This life as we know it shouldn't exist, it doesn't hold sense, however it does and ot exists against what seemed all odds and challenging all possibilities by means of almost impossible mathematical equations that could have only been designed by someone in the way even a toddler perceives the world.

Before trying to explain an afterlife, i would suggest first to try to explain this life first, something which your colleagues (Or should i say masters) have failed during the ages and whose only arguments have been "Science will reveal it one day" or "Chemicals and particles smacking eachother and coincidentally all the variables gave life even though it was nearly impossible. If you dare to challenge this then know it could have been any other way dude". Yes, any other way life didn't exist, yet here we are, in the almost impossible scenario and the miracle that life exists and we are discussing it.

The Qur'an in it's magnificency makes this argument (Interpretation of the meaning):

"He brings the living out of the dead and brings the dead out of the living and brings to life the earth after its lifelessness. And thus will you be brought out."​


God is not omnipresent but He sees and is a witness to everything that happens.

Ramblings from the basement (Or poloce station, although i hold doubts that something with your intellect or lack thereof would be even allowed in the Zimbabwe law enforcement) trying to gain more empathy and popularity, and also act as this kind of fake neutral character.

Debunked points thousands of times in this forum itself, let alone in other social media.

Since you present links i present people like Farid Responds, Sapience Institute, Muslim Skeptic, Jake the Metaphysician etc, that destroyed all this 21st century post 2001 garbage propaganda financed by the strongest powers in the world and repeated as parrots by their subjects and online prostitutes.

Another empty argument and misrepresentation which shows a clear lack of understanding of what Islam claims. Already addressed in this place several times.

In Islam we have the best system in this regard. We believe that God sent prophets to all nations, and that he didn’t judge them until He did so. Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): "We sent a messenger to every community, saying, ‘Worship God and shun false gods.’ Among them were some God guided; misguidance took hold of others. So travel through the earth and see what was the fate of those who denied the truth."
In another verse (Interpretation of the meaning): "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger."
The islamic settlement of the matter is clearly the only one that avoids your fallacies and comes from a Just God, who cares about His subjects and offers them Ultimate Justice. Ignorance? Don't worry, your Lord forgives you or judges you after giving you knowledge.

I'd go even further and say Islam is the only religion among the main ones that actually says kids who die before puberty go to paradise as muslims. Something which for some reason other religions couldn't extend their hand for (Only a Merciful God would do so) and let alone the atheist view, which already deems living children holding the same value as a bacteria in you bathroom.

Since seeing this garbage line of the post trying again to collect sympathy and act as if you hold any knowledge you have just made the Megathread of proof for God's existence now a thing in my agenda.

Stay tuned the next weeks.

This line of concrete evidence for God's existence without any kind of high level scientific investigation already exists and is heavily addressed in Islam. It's called Fitrah or Natural Inclination, and is something that applies to every human being with a sensibly open heart and mind.

The Fitrah is the concept that every human being is born with a inclination to believe in One God.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.
It is narrated that the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: “Every newborn is born in a state of fitrah. His parents make him a Jew, or a Christian, or Magian."

Ibn Taymiyyah said: "Being born on the Fitrah does not necessarily mean that one really believes in Islam at birth, because when Allaah brought us to this life (at birth) we do not know anything. Fitrah refers to having a pure heart which is ready to accept the truth, and that a person would be a Muslim if no one influenced him (while growing up) to change his natural inclination towards Islam."


This gets even deeper when one realizes that the human being, this supreme being on earth, this """animal""" that dominated completely all animals, can't even survive prorperly in a group of he is devoid of any sense of belief and purpose, contrary to millions and millions of other species who are way less intelligent than him. The human being, the only being that believes, yet we are trying to get convinced by edgy teenagers who go around claiming that the only purpose to life is to reproduce and survive, that this sense of belief is meaningless, empty, dumb, product of unguided chemicals and particles if not just a mere consequence.

To go further and prove this, there was a 2 million pound study carried by Oxford university with the purpose to investigate this specific matter, and this were the results

"A three-year international research project, directed by two academics at the University of Oxford, finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife.

The £1.9 million project involved 57 researchers who conducted over 40 separate studies in 20 countries representing a diverse range of cultures.

The studies (both analytical and empirical) conclude that humans are predisposed to believe in God and an afterlife"

Some findings of the Cognition, Religion and Theology Project:

Studies by Emily Reed Burdett and Justin Barrett, from the University of Oxford, suggest that children below the age of five find it easier to believe in some superhuman properties than to understand similar human limitations. Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a box in which she could not see. Children aged three believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers are not all-seeing and all knowing. However, children may continue to believe in all-seeing, all-knowing supernatural agents, such as a god or gods.Experiments involving adults, conducted by Jing Zhu from Tsinghua University (China), and Natalie Emmons and Jesse Bering from The Queen's University, Belfast, suggest that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural 'dualists' finding it easy to conceive of the separation of the mind and the body.



It clearly does. Thousands of civilizations who happen to be the only ones who survive a long time enough without the necessity to being extremely numerous to be noticed (Contrary to current western society) are a proof of this.

You want to sell us this devoid of purpose life yet everything i see is purposeful. In fact i challenge you to tell me one thing that is happening which holds absoletuly no purpose nor chain explanation, ONE SINGLE EVENT. But, we are supposed to believe that THE MOST IMPORTANT event, the beggining of everything, was just a mere product of randomness and chance (Two words used to recognize one's ignorance but without sounding ignorant, as both of those words don't exists by themselves to begin with. I recommend Firas Zahabi with Joe Rogan debate Scientific Truth for more depth into this)

No, it doesn't logically at all follow that God shouldn't exist. This is one of the biggest fallacies you have used until now, and you have certainly been breaking some fallacious record prior to this one.

Really what you are saying here is "Since quantum physics and mechanics don't follow the traditional 1+1=2, then God doesn’t exist", as if God wasn't described as a Being completely superior to all of this matters Who created them in the first place, and as if that somehow debunked the fact that everything that happens including the smallest of leaves that falls from the tree follows a chain of command driven with purpose, independently of whether it is driven by a subset of quantum physics elements under the set of traditional witnessable logic that we understand.

Apart from the fact that this is another heavily rushed reductive conclusion which is not true obviously (Remember people, a false premise is an incorrect proposition that forms the basis of an argument or syllogism. Since the premise {proposition, or assumption} is not correct, the conclusion drawn may be in error). But besides that, i wish you had the same mental fortitude to describe your moral compasses the same.

Everytime someone from you family died, or you go to a cemetery and see someone mourning their son, etc, please, have the mental strenght to tell them/tell yourself in the face that his mere existence was an accident, and same with yours.

However i doubt it, you didn't even had the balls to say that atheists are devoid of any moral compass which is not naturally driven (Whose only explanation is that it comes instinctively from a Creator) in a involuntary celibates thread, let alone to get out of your basement and do so face to face. This showcases again the miserable existence of the atheist, walking shamefully in the street bowing down his head, knowing he is the same as a bacteria in a bathroom, living a life that is empty and useless.

Translation: "I don't have any explanation for belief instincts, so i will hide in randomness and chance and the long history of human civilization praying (Funny enough) that there is a hole of miliseconds that explains why we have such complex belief systems, and why i rely on those instinctive belief interior systems for my morality and overall daily life"

Ladies and gentlemen, this brings us to the cruz of everything with this user. The other day he confessed that his reason for atheism was that he didn’t get his churro wet with a woman "Muh because of religion". He said and i quote from the atheist hero, this "walking learned philosopher" who "read every religious book there is", TheBuffdon860: "Religion in general is dogshit, but Islam is takes it to another level. Could have lost my virginity time and time again if it wasn’t for this cuck religion"

It always boils down to this with these people. Pure emotion, zero logic, zero mental strenght, zero anything with real value.

It's the famous paradox all over again. "I destroy a house in the last party i had (Or want to have) and my landlord comes to whom i own everything and he asks me for explanations. I have therefore two options: 1-Asking forgiveness, pay reparations, recognize my mistakes, own up, make an effort and improve myself. 2- Deny that the house is owned by the landlord by all means possible, even if it is written on every single square meter of the house (Atheism)

Theorizing without any basis about that which is heavily primitive on it's knowledge. All you have really.

Basically recognizing that you argument is completely rotten from the beggining, and that it does not prove anything at all because it has been destroyed since centuries by now.

They don't even believe in evil so who cares about what atheist philosophers believe? For them evil doesn’t exist, it's a moral construct, a lie, same as good. They themselves give no value to their words (Except to gain money of course)

What certain evils?? Do you have a scale as an atheist??? You don't believe in evil

We believers and muslims in specific do have scales of evil in which all case scenarios are contemplated and explained.

Also it's funny that you can't even realize your own contradictions within few lines. For once you say "It seems intuitively implausible for God to allow certain evils to occur" but then your entire argument relies on human intuition, which is something that as proven above leads to the existence of God and an afterlife being true as proven by the above comments and studies posted.

This is not our point of view. Again you sre misrepresenting completely our position and mixing it up with yours.

YOU are the one as an atheist who believes evim "is more lf an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone's own perception"

WE believe that evil is clearly defined by God in His scriptures and revelations, period. Same with good.

Irrelevant as first, any study that tries to so will get vastly different responses from civilization to civilization (Just look at homosexuality, which is highly shunned upon in 85% of the world while considered one of the greatest evils and accepted and celebrated the west).

All your argument will be based on made up rating scales of good and evil based on your interpretation and i can see it already.

There clearly is, but you are playing sneaky for anyone who is ignorant. You are sticking with your particular definition that all evil is instinctive somehow and that's the only way to define it. As i said, evil is already defined for us people who believe in religions, especially monotheistic ones. We don't adhere to these empty standards.

No doubt that evil is detectable instinctively, same as good (Greatly affected by the Fitrah), but it is so vastly variable if you just rely on instincts (Which are also irremediably affected by several other events like people and society) that you could pick up 5 psychos together and for them killing a hobo would not be remotely evil to begin with.

False. You wouldn't have only to do that, but also to learn the entirety of human history when you can't even know who stole your banana from the fridge, you would need to descipher all the enviroment of every single individual, all the people he hang out with, every single of his interactions and see how they affected his views, make extremely deep analysis of his thoughts with technology we don't possess (And probably we will never possess), etc

Yes, basically you want the entire blueprint of humanity, an Ultimate Book. Basically you are recognizing the necessity of an Ultimate Guide to define Good and Evil. This as religious people we already have, we muslims call it Qur'an and it explains to us what is good and evil, how we should govern ourselves, etc.

You really are critizicing us for adhering to that which you lack and wish you had. A code of life that gives purpose.

You are so funny bro look at how in laughing...

"SO So hard"

Translation: "I have no idea of what i'm doing and what to use as a starting point because as an atheist i lack any sense of morality and purpose"

Just the hopefully part completely debunks every inch or iota of certainty your argument might have remotely hold

Irrelevant. You don't believe in Good and Evil and the only way for them to exist is if there was an Ultimate Judge who defines them properly.

False. Too many fake premises as usual.

For once, you are the one who believes that all those evil acts you describe are not even evil, they are simply acts that happened and you insinctively individualistically (Supposedly, at least that's what you claim) perceive them as evil whereas the japanese and germans, two of the most "advanced" civilizations in history according to materialistic standards, and were heavily inspired by prominent atheists like Nietchzche, didn't perceive them as such but as an ultimate good.

Really the "Most people part is such an empty argument". Most people could be convinced within 6 months (Don't even doubt this) of current media propaganda that cannibalism is actually good (This study has already been done by the way by a recently famous spanish general).

Most people in Israel hate Palestinians and see them as "human animals". Most people in Nazi Germany hated the jews. This most people dynamic is a waste of time and you are basing your entire argument on it.

As religious people we don't believe that evil doesn’t gave a purpose.

In Islam, paired with the above mentioned ignorance verses, we also believe that the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: "Wondrous is the affair of the believer for there is good for him in every matter and this is not the case with anyone except the believer. If he is happy, then he thanks Allah and thus there is good for him, and if he is harmed, then he shows patience and thus there is good for him."
Islam is the only main religion which addresses the Problem of Evil directly.
Allah says in the Qur'an (Interpretation of the meaning): And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
This leads us to the blatant assumption and contradiction in the entirety of your argument. You assume that an afterlife where proper justice will apply doesn’t exist.

I could understand this line of argumentation with someone who believes in Karma or any sort of justice concept in which such is served exclusively in this life. But for someone who believes in an afterlife in which accounts will be settled based on what happens in this life??? What's even more amazing, is that your entire argument is based on "instictively" describing and rating evil, yet YOU DENY THE INSTINCTIVE NECESSITY AND BELIEF OF AN AFTERLIFE, already proven above by the famous Oxford study and by the history of humdreds of civilizations set apart which held the same belief.

The basis of your argument is this sort of pseudoinvented morality rating scale based on extremely subjective human instinct but then you scratch all human instinct and it's predisposition of belief in an afterlife once it doesn't serve your purpose of denying a Just God. It's like playing a basketball match but you do it without the basket because it doesn't serve your purpose since you know you are doomed to lose the game in any scenario.

Allah describes your kind in the best of words in His Holy Book (Interpretation of the meaning): And they denied and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement.


Ireelevant. God gives us free will and tests us on it. We are not angels who follow all the commands of God, we are given the option to be better than angels or worse than animals depending on our decisions, and have better or worse rewards than them in our afterlife.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): Do people think once they say, “We believe,” that they will be left without being put to the test? Or do the evildoers ˹simply˺ think that they will escape Us? How wrong is their judgment! Whoever hopes for the meeting with Allah, ˹let them know that˺ Allah’s appointed time is sure to come. He is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. We have commanded people to honour their parents. But if they urge you to associate with Me what you have no knowledge of, then do not obey them. To Me you will ˹all˺ return, and then I will inform you of what you used to do.

Whatever it seems to you is completely irrelevant and not only that, but baseless as already proven.

Free will allows both good and bad to happen. God commands good to happen and forbids bad, makes rulings based on such and promoting the first.

Anything outside that is not free will. Funny that this comes from the people who constantly champion "Freedom and liberty" but when they are given the option they cry because it doesn't fit their purposes and desires during that specific moment

God is not made up of parts. We believe that God has hands, a face, etc, (Depending on the school of thought), but we don't believe those can be considered parts at all but only a Unique One Being.

Allah says: "He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent; and He has full knowledge of all things"

We believe that Allah is Al Ahad (The Unique), and He says (Interpretation of the meaning): There is nothing like Him, for He (alone) is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.”
And He also says (Interpretation of the meaning): Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
Ibn Taymiyyah said: "The word “body” is very general. It could refer to something that was put together, of which the parts were separate then they were put together; or something that can be divided and separated into parts; or something that consists of physical material and an image; or something that consists of single particles that are put together, but Allah, may He be exalted, is far above all that; or something that was separate then came together; or something that can be divided and separated, meaning that one part of the thing separates from another part; or it may indicate some other meaning that refers to something that is put together – which is impossible in the case of Allah."

The contingency argument is one of the golden bullets. The argument that simply can't be debunked by any current means. Will be addressed in another thread Insha Allah.

Basically you are recognizing that God exists without doing so.

All your thread is like this.

You destroyed your entire argument with one word, "seems".

Your entire argument is destroyed with the word "Agency" and the definition you give to it, which is a misrepresentation that makes it seem as if we believe God is acting with the permission of another being (Something which would lead to an impossible Infinite Regress which would lead to believe in the existence of an Ultimate Creator as the only credible argument) and also based on that God is inside and limited by time. We believe God is Eternal and is not limited by time, and we also believe that this concept cannot be completely conceived by beings who are stucked inside time like us, but only thought and reflected upon. This is proof of the superiority of God in regards to humankind and to creation if anything, not the contrary.

God is not limited by time and doesn’t have to make a decision to exist. You are limited by time and you are making God a human being who is also limited by time to fit your argument. One of the contentions against Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) being God by the way

No, He is not inside time. He doesn't have to "push a button" or "decide" to cease existing because those concepts are outside of Him, He is not subject to them like we are.

Yes, His non existence is impossible, therefore His existence is Neceessary

Impossible: not possible; unable to be, exist, happen, etc. unable to be done, performed, effected, etc.
Necessary: determined, existing, or happening by natural laws or predestination; inevitable.
It doesn't have any mechanism to cease existing because He is outside time. This is really the "God can't lift a rock stronger than him that He created" argument

This argument is not valid at all because the power of Allaah is not connected to irrationalities and contradictions. God won't do anything that goes against His attributes.

Calling yourself an "High IQ thinker" is the biggest overstatement i have seen since the "Most moral army in the world" claim made by the israelis

Yes. And that's why atheism is deemed to never prosper and dissapear.

Just the fact that we need God to prosper and we know we need Him, is a proof of His existence to anyone with a sane intellect.


Translation: "Bla bla bla i'm so open minded bla bla bla give me like give me react give me validation in an incel forum"

@SecularIslamist @Fiqh @Hamdan @Michael Myers @emeraldglass @coispet @wsada @TsarTsar444 @HarrierDuBois @st.hamudi but 6‘5 @RAMU KAKA @STAMPEDE @try2beme @SubhumanCurrycel @bndar.337
 
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Bookmarked for later, if this is actually a good response then I congratulate you, you did what all the other religious wafflers failed to do, which was actually respond to my thread 👍
Stop acting as this beacon of intellectualism and just use "The Chosen Card" once and for all

GMbkmDWWMAAMcti
 
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High IQ 🤝
 
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Bookmarked for later, if this is actually a good response then I congratulate you, you did what all the other religious wafflers failed to do, which was actually respond to my thread 👍
By the way all this dumb game... You literally copy and pasted all that thread and then hide into "Muh no one answers my thread look at me im an intellectual"

I needed almost hours writing this. Only reason i did it is because i was relazing with a cup of coffee with nothing to do.

We can all play this game, every dumbass can copy and paste half of a thread, had some "JFL" to it to act as if it is him who wrote it and then hide into "B-b-but one one answered and it only needs 4 hours to complete a response. I win"

This place is getting worse by the day. People like this should be banned @Master

All this religious baiting and it's so clear they are all feds and edgy teenagers. They have destroyed whatever decency remained of this trash hole. You are losing quality people because of this.
 
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By the way all this dumb game... You literally copy and pasted all that thread and then hide into "Muh no one answers my thread look at me im an intellectual"

I needed almost hours writing this. Only reason i did it is because i was relazing with a cup of coffee with nothing to do.

We can all play this game, every dumbass can copy and paste half of a thread, had some "JFL" to it to act as if it is him who wrote it and then hide into "B-b-but one one answered and it only needs 4 hours to complete a response. I win"

This place is getting worse by the day. People like this should be banned @Master

All this religious baiting and it's so clear they are all feds and edgy teenagers. They have destroyed whatever decency remained of this trash hole. You are losing quality people because of this.
If you actually read the post then you would have seen I literally anticipated a response at the end of the post so idk what you’re talking about. And I guarantee your post is gonna be trash I just haven’t started reading yet gonna dedicate some time at some point. And idk wtf ur talking about copy and paste it’s literally all original writing.
 
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By the way all this dumb game... You literally copy and pasted all that thread and then hide into "Muh no one answers my thread look at me im an intellectual"

I needed almost hours writing this. Only reason i did it is because i was relazing with a cup of coffee with nothing to do.

We can all play this game, every dumbass can copy and paste half of a thread, had some "JFL" to it to act as if it is him who wrote it and then hide into "B-b-but one one answered and it only needs 4 hours to complete a response. I win"

This place is getting worse by the day. People like this should be banned @Master

All this religious baiting and it's so clear they are all feds and edgy teenagers. They have destroyed whatever decency remained of this trash hole. You are losing quality people because of this.
Also religion needs to be terminated in general so my work here is well received judging by my original thread. Let’s see if this dead water thread gets the same kind of traction
 
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This is completely true. Atheists have no sense of morality nor purpose (Apart from the inherent one which only Islam addresses among the big religions, the Fitrah or Natural Inclination). Atheism (Or really polytheism because atheism isn't more than making your own desires/whatever it is why you disbelief in One God as your new God) is a rotten ideology that existed since almost the beggining of times, and NEVER prospered in any civilization that seeked to reproduce and extend their lineage because the end line would have been ALWAYS the same. DESTRUCTION OF THE HUMAN RACE because of lack of sense of purpose dedicated to a life of hedonism and after the failure of hedonism the switch to utter oblivion and hopelesness.

You know why you never heard about an atheist society? The same exact reason why you never heard about an extremely peaceful society, because if such cases of small populations even had a chance to be THEY CEASED TO EXIST completely within years in a world with extremely low age expectancy.

The only atheist society you will ever hear of is the unique case of the current western civilization, which will also cease to exist in it's current form during the next years, or otherwise dissapear.

Completely false. You are anything but unbiased and anyone with half a brain cell can see it. It's a nice bed to try and slither into it but to the semi trained eye you are not but an useless demagogue who is trying to gain empathy and likes in a involuntary celibates forum, which is pretty much some of the lowest one can get.

Is this the purpose you were speaking about before???

It's a completely empty line of argumentation trying to justify your sense of the afterlife not existing because of "Muh feelings, good and evil".

The fact that this life itself exist is one of the biggest proofs for the afterlife. This life as we know it shouldn't exist, it doesn't hold sense, however it does and ot exists against what seemed all odds and challenging all possibilities by means of almost impossible mathematical equations that could have only been designed by someone in the way even a toddler perceives the world.

Before trying to explain an afterlife, i would suggest first to try to explain this life first, something which your colleagues (Or should i say masters) have failed during the ages and whose only arguments have been "Science will reveal it one day" or "Chemicals and particles smacking eachother and coincidentally all the variables gave life even though it was nearly impossible. If you dare to challenge this then know it could have been any other way dude". Yes, any other way life didn't exist, yet here we are, in the almost impossible scenario and the miracle that life exists and we are discussing it.

The Qur'an in it's magnificency makes this argument (Interpretation of the meaning):

"He brings the living out of the dead and brings the dead out of the living and brings to life the earth after its lifelessness. And thus will you be brought out."​


God is not omnipresent but He sees and is a witness to everything that happens.

Ramblings from the basement (Or poloce station, although i hold doubts that something with your intellect or lack thereof would be even allowed in the Zimbabwe law enforcement) trying to gain more empathy and popularity, and also act as this kind of fake neutral character.

Debunked points thousands of times in this forum itself, let alone in other social media.

Since you present links i present people like Farid Responds, Sapience Institute, Muslim Skeptic, Jake the Metaphysician etc, that destroyed all this 21st century post 2001 garbage propaganda financed by the strongest powers in the world and repeated as parrots by their subjects and online prostitutes.

Another empty argument and misrepresentation which shows a clear lack of understanding of what Islam claims. Already addressed in this place several times.

In Islam we have the best system in this regard. We believe that God sent prophets to all nations, and that he didn’t judge them until He did so. Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): "We sent a messenger to every community, saying, ‘Worship God and shun false gods.’ Among them were some God guided; misguidance took hold of others. So travel through the earth and see what was the fate of those who denied the truth."
In another verse (Interpretation of the meaning): "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger."
The islamic settlement of the matter is clearly the only one that avoids your fallacies and comes from a Just God, who cares about His subjects and offers them Ultimate Justice. Ignorance? Don't worry, your Lord forgives you or judges you after giving you knowledge.

I'd go even further and say Islam is the only religion among the main ones that actually says kids who die before puberty go to paradise as muslims. Something which for some reason other religions couldn't extend their hand for (Only a Merciful God would do so) and let alone the atheist view, which already deems living children holding the same value as a bacteria in you bathroom.

Since seeing this garbage line of the post trying again to collect sympathy and act as if you hold any knowledge you have just made the Megathread of proof for God's existence now a thing in my agenda.

Stay tuned the next weeks.

This line of concrete evidence for God's existence without any kind of high level scientific investigation already exists and is heavily addressed in Islam. It's called Fitrah or Natural Inclination, and is something that applies to every human being with a sensibly open heart and mind.

The Fitrah is the concept that every human being is born with a inclination to believe in One God.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.
It is narrated that the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: “Every newborn is born in a state of fitrah. His parents make him a Jew, or a Christian, or Magian."

Ibn Taymiyyah said: "Being born on the Fitrah does not necessarily mean that one really believes in Islam at birth, because when Allaah brought us to this life (at birth) we do not know anything. Fitrah refers to having a pure heart which is ready to accept the truth, and that a person would be a Muslim if no one influenced him (while growing up) to change his natural inclination towards Islam."


This gets even deeper when one realizes that the human being, this supreme being on earth, this """animal""" that dominated completely all animals, can't even survive prorperly in a group of he is devoid of any sense of belief and purpose, contrary to millions and millions of other species who are way less intelligent than him. The human being, the only being that believes, yet we are trying to get convinced by edgy teenagers who go around claiming that the only purpose to life is to reproduce and survive, that this sense of belief is meaningless, empty, dumb, product of unguided chemicals and particles if not just a mere consequence.

To go further and prove this, there was a 2 million pound study carried by Oxford university with the purpose to investigate this specific matter, and this were the results

"A three-year international research project, directed by two academics at the University of Oxford, finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife.

The £1.9 million project involved 57 researchers who conducted over 40 separate studies in 20 countries representing a diverse range of cultures.

The studies (both analytical and empirical) conclude that humans are predisposed to believe in God and an afterlife"

Some findings of the Cognition, Religion and Theology Project:

Studies by Emily Reed Burdett and Justin Barrett, from the University of Oxford, suggest that children below the age of five find it easier to believe in some superhuman properties than to understand similar human limitations. Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a box in which she could not see. Children aged three believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers are not all-seeing and all knowing. However, children may continue to believe in all-seeing, all-knowing supernatural agents, such as a god or gods.Experiments involving adults, conducted by Jing Zhu from Tsinghua University (China), and Natalie Emmons and Jesse Bering from The Queen's University, Belfast, suggest that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural 'dualists' finding it easy to conceive of the separation of the mind and the body.



It clearly does. Thousands of civilizations who happen to be the only ones who survive a long time enough without the necessity to being extremely numerous to be noticed (Contrary to current western society) are a proof of this.

You want to sell us this devoid of purpose life yet everything i see is purposeful. In fact i challenge you to tell me one thing that is happening which holds absoletuly no purpose nor chain explanation, ONE SINGLE EVENT. But, we are supposed to believe that THE MOST IMPORTANT event, the beggining of everything, was just a mere product of randomness and chance (Two words used to recognize one's ignorance but without sounding ignorant, as both of those words don't exists by themselves to begin with. I recommend Firas Zahabi with Joe Rogan debate Scientific Truth for more depth into this)

No, it doesn't logically at all follow that God shouldn't exist. This is one of the biggest fallacies you have used until now, and you have certainly been breaking some fallacious record prior to this one.

Really what you are saying here is "Since quantum physics and mechanics don't follow the traditional 1+1=2, then God doesn’t exist", as if God wasn't described as a Being completely superior to all of this matters Who created them in the first place, and as if that somehow debunked the fact that everything that happens including the smallest of leaves that falls from the tree follows a chain of command driven with purpose, independently of whether it is driven by a subset of quantum physics elements under the set of traditional witnessable logic that we understand.

Apart from the fact that this is another heavily rushed reductive conclusion which is not true obviously (Remember people, a false premise is an incorrect proposition that forms the basis of an argument or syllogism. Since the premise {proposition, or assumption} is not correct, the conclusion drawn may be in error). But besides that, i wish you had the same mental fortitude to describe your moral compasses the same.

Everytime someone from you family died, or you go to a cemetery and see someone mourning their son, etc, please, have the mental strenght to tell them/tell yourself in the face that his mere existence was an accident, and same with yours.

However i doubt it, you didn't even had the balls to say that atheists are devoid of any moral compass which is not naturally driven (Whose only explanation is that it comes instinctively from a Creator) in a involuntary celibates thread, let alone to get out of your basement and do so face to face. This showcases again the miserable existence of the atheist, walking shamefully in the street bowing down his head, knowing he is the same as a bacteria in a bathroom, living a life that is empty and useless.

Translation: "I don't have any explanation for belief instincts, so i will hide in randomness and chance and the long history of human civilization praying (Funny enough) that there is a hole of miliseconds that explains why we have such complex belief systems, and why i rely on those instinctive belief interior systems for my morality and overall daily life"

Ladies and gentlemen, this brings us to the cruz of everything with this user. The other day he confessed that his reason for atheism was that he didn’t get his churro wet with a woman "Muh because of religion". He said and i quote from the atheist hero, this "walking learned philosopher" who "read every religious book there is", TheBuffdon860: "Religion in general is dogshit, but Islam is takes it to another level. Could have lost my virginity time and time again if it wasn’t for this cuck religion"

It always boils down to this with these people. Pure emotion, zero logic, zero mental strenght, zero anything with real value.

It's the famous paradox all over again. "I destroy a house in the last party i had (Or want to have) and my landlord comes to whom i own everything and he asks me for explanations. I have therefore two options: 1-Asking forgiveness, pay reparations, recognize my mistakes, own up, make an effort and improve myself. 2- Deny that the house is owned by the landlord by all means possible, even if it is written on every single square meter of the house (Atheism)

Theorizing without any basis about that which is heavily primitive on it's knowledge. All you have really.

Basically recognizing that you argument is completely rotten from the beggining, and that it does not prove anything at all because it has been destroyed since centuries by now.

They don't even believe in evil so who cares about what atheist philosophers believe? For them evil doesn’t exist, it's a moral construct, a lie, same as good. They themselves give no value to their words (Except to gain money of course)

What certain evils?? Do you have a scale as an atheist??? You don't believe in evil

We believers and muslims in specific do have scales of evil in which all case scenarios are contemplated and explained.

Also it's funny that you can't even realize your own contradictions within few lines. For once you say "It seems intuitively implausible for God to allow certain evils to occur" but then your entire argument relies on human intuition, which is something that as proven above leads to the existence of God and an afterlife being true as proven by the above comments and studies posted.

This is not our point of view. Again you sre misrepresenting completely our position and mixing it up with yours.

YOU are the one as an atheist who believes evim "is more lf an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone's own perception"

WE believe that evil is clearly defined by God in His scriptures and revelations, period. Same with good.

Irrelevant as first, any study that tries to so will get vastly different responses from civilization to civilization (Just look at homosexuality, which is highly shunned upon in 85% of the world while considered one of the greatest evils and accepted and celebrated the west).

All your argument will be based on made up rating scales of good and evil based on your interpretation and i can see it already.

There clearly is, but you are playing sneaky for anyone who is ignorant. You are sticking with your particular definition that all evil is instinctive somehow and that's the only way to define it. As i said, evil is already defined for us people who believe in religions, especially monotheistic ones. We don't adhere to these empty standards.

No doubt that evil is detectable instinctively, same as good (Greatly affected by the Fitrah), but it is so vastly variable if you just rely on instincts (Which are also irremediably affected by several other events like people and society) that you could pick up 5 psychos together and for them killing a hobo would not be remotely evil to begin with.

False. You wouldn't have only to do that, but also to learn the entirety of human history when you can't even know who stole your banana from the fridge, you would need to descipher all the enviroment of every single individual, all the people he hang out with, every single of his interactions and see how they affected his views, make extremely deep analysis of his thoughts with technology we don't possess (And probably we will never possess), etc

Yes, basically you want the entire blueprint of humanity, an Ultimate Book. Basically you are recognizing the necessity of an Ultimate Guide to define Good and Evil. This as religious people we already have, we muslims call it Qur'an and it explains to us what is good and evil, how we should govern ourselves, etc.

You really are critizicing us for adhering to that which you lack and wish you had. A code of life that gives purpose.

You are so funny bro look at how in laughing...

"SO So hard"

Translation: "I have no idea of what i'm doing and what to use as a starting point because as an atheist i lack any sense of morality and purpose"

Just the hopefully part completely debunks every inch or iota of certainty your argument might have remotely hold

Irrelevant. You don't believe in Good and Evil and the only way for them to exist is if there was an Ultimate Judge who defines them properly.

False. Too many fake premises as usual.

For once, you are the one who believes that all those evil acts you describe are not even evil, they are simply acts that happened and you insinctively individualistically (Supposedly, at least that's what you claim) perceive them as evil whereas the japanese and germans, two of the most "advanced" civilizations in history according to materialistic standards, and were heavily inspired by prominent atheists like Nietchzche, didn't perceive them as such but as an ultimate good.

Really the "Most people part is such an empty argument". Most people could be convinced within 6 months (Don't even doubt this) of current media propaganda that cannibalism is actually good (This study has already been done by the way by a recently famous spanish general).

Most people in Israel hate Palestinians and see them as "human animals". Most people in Nazi Germany hated the jews. This most people dynamic is a waste of time and you are basing your entire argument on it.

As religious people we don't believe that evil doesn’t gave a purpose.

In Islam, paired with the above mentioned ignorance verses, we also believe that the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: "Wondrous is the affair of the believer for there is good for him in every matter and this is not the case with anyone except the believer. If he is happy, then he thanks Allah and thus there is good for him, and if he is harmed, then he shows patience and thus there is good for him."
Islam is the only main religion which addresses the Problem of Evil directly.
Allah says in the Qur'an (Interpretation of the meaning): And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
This leads us to the blatant assumption and contradiction in the entirety of your argument. You assume that an afterlife where proper justice will apply doesn’t exist.

I could understand this line of argumentation with someone who believes in Karma or any sort of justice concept in which such is served exclusively in this life. But for someone who believes in an afterlife in which accounts will be settled based on what happens in this life??? What's even more amazing, is that your entire argument is based on "instictively" describing and rating evil, yet YOU DENY THE INSTINCTIVE NECESSITY AND BELIEF OF AN AFTERLIFE, already proven above by the famous Oxford study and by the history of humdreds of civilizations set apart which held the same belief.

The basis of your argument is this sort of pseudoinvented morality rating scale based on extremely subjective human instinct but then you scratch all human instinct and it's predisposition of belief in an afterlife once it doesn't serve your purpose of denying a Just God. It's like playing a basketball match but you do it without the basket because it doesn't serve your purpose since you know you are doomed to lose the game in any scenario.

Allah describes your kind in the best of words in His Holy Book (Interpretation of the meaning): And they denied and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement.


Ireelevant. God gives us free will and tests us on it. We are not angels who follow all the commands of God, we are given the option to be better than angels or worse than animals depending on our decisions, and have better or worse rewards than them in our afterlife.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): Do people think once they say, “We believe,” that they will be left without being put to the test? Or do the evildoers ˹simply˺ think that they will escape Us? How wrong is their judgment! Whoever hopes for the meeting with Allah, ˹let them know that˺ Allah’s appointed time is sure to come. He is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. We have commanded people to honour their parents. But if they urge you to associate with Me what you have no knowledge of, then do not obey them. To Me you will ˹all˺ return, and then I will inform you of what you used to do.

Whatever it seems to you is completely irrelevant and not only that, but baseless as already proven.

Free will allows both good and bad to happen. God commands good to happen and forbids bad, makes rulings based on such and promoting the first.

Anything outside that is not free will. Funny that this comes from the people who constantly champion "Freedom and liberty" but when they are given the option they cry because it doesn't fit their purposes and desires during that specific moment

God is not made up of parts. We believe that God has hands, a face, etc, (Depending on the school of thought), but we don't believe those can be considered parts at all but only a Unique One Being.

Allah says: "He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent; and He has full knowledge of all things"

We believe that Allah is Al Ahad (The Unique), and He says (Interpretation of the meaning): There is nothing like Him, for He (alone) is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.”
And He also says (Interpretation of the meaning): Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
Ibn Taymiyyah said: "The word “body” is very general. It could refer to something that was put together, of which the parts were separate then they were put together; or something that can be divided and separated into parts; or something that consists of physical material and an image; or something that consists of single particles that are put together, but Allah, may He be exalted, is far above all that; or something that was separate then came together; or something that can be divided and separated, meaning that one part of the thing separates from another part; or it may indicate some other meaning that refers to something that is put together – which is impossible in the case of Allah."

The contingency argument is one of the golden bullets. The argument that simply can't be debunked by any current means. Will be addressed in another thread Insha Allah.

Basically you are recognizing that God exists without doing so.

All your thread is like this.

You destroyed your entire argument with one word, "seems".

Your entire argument is destroyed with the word "Agency" and the definition you give to it, which is a misrepresentation that makes it seem as if we believe God is acting with the permission of another being (Something which would lead to an impossible Infinite Regress which would lead to believe in the existence of an Ultimate Creator as the only credible argument) and also based on that God is inside and limited by time. We believe God is Eternal and is not limited by time, and we also believe that this concept cannot be completely conceived by beings who are stucked inside time like us, but only thought and reflected upon. This is proof of the superiority of God in regards to humankind and to creation if anything, not the contrary.

God is not limited by time and doesn’t have to make a decision to exist. You are limited by time and you are making God a human being who is also limited by time to fit your argument. One of the contentions against Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) being God by the way

No, He is not inside time. He doesn't have to "push a button" or "decide" to cease existing because those concepts are outside of Him, He is not subject to them like we are.

Yes, His non existence is impossible, therefore His existence is Neceessary

Impossible: not possible; unable to be, exist, happen, etc. unable to be done, performed, effected, etc.
Necessary: determined, existing, or happening by natural laws or predestination; inevitable.
It doesn't have any mechanism to cease existing because He is outside time. This is really the "God can't lift a rock stronger than him that He created" argument

This argument is not valid at all because the power of Allaah is not connected to irrationalities and contradictions. God won't do anything that goes against His attributes.

Calling yourself an "High IQ thinker" is the biggest overstatement i have seen since the "Most moral army in the world" claim made by the israelis

Yes. And that's why atheism is deemed to never prosper and dissapear.

Just the fact that we need God to prosper and we know we need Him, is a proof of His existence to anyone with a sane intellect.


Translation: "Bla bla bla i'm so open minded bla bla bla give me like give me react give me validation in an incel forum"

@SecularIslamist @Fiqh @Hamdan @Michael Myers @emeraldglass @coispet @wsada @TsarTsar444 @HarrierDuBois @st.hamudi but 6‘5 @RAMU KAKA @STAMPEDE @try2beme @SubhumanCurrycel @bndar.337
that guy is a goof, he literally could not reply when i asked him a simple question “where are you going after death”, he kept spamming muhh low iq sheep :lul:
 
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:feelsokman:
 
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Also religion needs to be terminated in general so my work here is well received judging by my original thread. Let’s see if this dead water thread gets the same kind of traction
Kys faggot
 
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Kys faggot
Ur gonna waste ur life following false beliefs. I think u should be the one considering ur life choices if you know what I mean.
 
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based @Xangsane pat him
 
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If you actually read the post then you would have seen I literally anticipated a response at the end of the post so idk what you’re talking about. And I guarantee your post is gonna be trash I just haven’t started reading yet gonna dedicate some time at some point. And idk wtf ur talking about copy and paste it’s literally all original writing.
Remember when you airy said im low iq bc i was too lazy to read your long ass thread. Now there you go m8
 
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Bro is quoting quran, needless to say that nothing further was read

@SensitiveYoungMan
 
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Remember when you airy said im low iq bc i was too lazy to read your long ass thread. Now there you go m8
I’m not not reading it cuz its long I’m not reading it cuz I got stuff to do JFL. Also not sure why you’re switch up so quick thought we were tight
 
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Bro is quoting quran, needless to say that nothing further was read

@SensitiveYoungMan
Oh shit he’s a Muslim I didn’t even realise. Yeh I don’t need to take this shit seriously now lmao. L thread
 
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Bro is quoting quran, needless to say that nothing further was read

@SensitiveYoungMan
Lmao how does this dude think he has authority as a Muslim 😂 biggest waffler ever
 
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Keep up the good work Mashallah, I hope the end times come soon so I can slaughter all the Jews on .org I fucking hate those kikes
 
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This is completely true. Atheists have no sense of morality nor purpose (Apart from the inherent one which only Islam addresses among the big religions, the Fitrah or Natural Inclination). Atheism (Or really polytheism because atheism isn't more than making your own desires/whatever it is why you disbelief in One God as your new God) is a rotten ideology that existed since almost the beggining of times, and NEVER prospered in any civilization that seeked to reproduce and extend their lineage because the end line would have been ALWAYS the same. DESTRUCTION OF THE HUMAN RACE because of lack of sense of purpose dedicated to a life of hedonism and after the failure of hedonism the switch to utter oblivion and hopelesness.

You know why you never heard about an atheist society? The same exact reason why you never heard about an extremely peaceful society, because if such cases of small populations even had a chance to be THEY CEASED TO EXIST completely within years in a world with extremely low age expectancy.

The only atheist society you will ever hear of is the unique case of the current western civilization, which will also cease to exist in it's current form during the next years, or otherwise dissapear.

Completely false. You are anything but unbiased and anyone with half a brain cell can see it. It's a nice bed to try and slither into it but to the semi trained eye you are not but an useless demagogue who is trying to gain empathy and likes in a involuntary celibates forum, which is pretty much some of the lowest one can get.

Is this the purpose you were speaking about before???

It's a completely empty line of argumentation trying to justify your sense of the afterlife not existing because of "Muh feelings, good and evil".

The fact that this life itself exist is one of the biggest proofs for the afterlife. This life as we know it shouldn't exist, it doesn't hold sense, however it does and ot exists against what seemed all odds and challenging all possibilities by means of almost impossible mathematical equations that could have only been designed by someone in the way even a toddler perceives the world.

Before trying to explain an afterlife, i would suggest first to try to explain this life first, something which your colleagues (Or should i say masters) have failed during the ages and whose only arguments have been "Science will reveal it one day" or "Chemicals and particles smacking eachother and coincidentally all the variables gave life even though it was nearly impossible. If you dare to challenge this then know it could have been any other way dude". Yes, any other way life didn't exist, yet here we are, in the almost impossible scenario and the miracle that life exists and we are discussing it.

The Qur'an in it's magnificency makes this argument (Interpretation of the meaning):

"He brings the living out of the dead and brings the dead out of the living and brings to life the earth after its lifelessness. And thus will you be brought out."​


God is not omnipresent but He sees and is a witness to everything that happens.

Ramblings from the basement (Or poloce station, although i hold doubts that something with your intellect or lack thereof would be even allowed in the Zimbabwe law enforcement) trying to gain more empathy and popularity, and also act as this kind of fake neutral character.

Debunked points thousands of times in this forum itself, let alone in other social media.

Since you present links i present people like Farid Responds, Sapience Institute, Muslim Skeptic, Jake the Metaphysician etc, that destroyed all this 21st century post 2001 garbage propaganda financed by the strongest powers in the world and repeated as parrots by their subjects and online prostitutes.

Another empty argument and misrepresentation which shows a clear lack of understanding of what Islam claims. Already addressed in this place several times.

In Islam we have the best system in this regard. We believe that God sent prophets to all nations, and that he didn’t judge them until He did so. Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): "We sent a messenger to every community, saying, ‘Worship God and shun false gods.’ Among them were some God guided; misguidance took hold of others. So travel through the earth and see what was the fate of those who denied the truth."
In another verse (Interpretation of the meaning): "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger."
The islamic settlement of the matter is clearly the only one that avoids your fallacies and comes from a Just God, who cares about His subjects and offers them Ultimate Justice. Ignorance? Don't worry, your Lord forgives you or judges you after giving you knowledge.

I'd go even further and say Islam is the only religion among the main ones that actually says kids who die before puberty go to paradise as muslims. Something which for some reason other religions couldn't extend their hand for (Only a Merciful God would do so) and let alone the atheist view, which already deems living children holding the same value as a bacteria in you bathroom.

Since seeing this garbage line of the post trying again to collect sympathy and act as if you hold any knowledge you have just made the Megathread of proof for God's existence now a thing in my agenda.

Stay tuned the next weeks.

This line of concrete evidence for God's existence without any kind of high level scientific investigation already exists and is heavily addressed in Islam. It's called Fitrah or Natural Inclination, and is something that applies to every human being with a sensibly open heart and mind.

The Fitrah is the concept that every human being is born with a inclination to believe in One God.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.
It is narrated that the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: “Every newborn is born in a state of fitrah. His parents make him a Jew, or a Christian, or Magian."

Ibn Taymiyyah said: "Being born on the Fitrah does not necessarily mean that one really believes in Islam at birth, because when Allaah brought us to this life (at birth) we do not know anything. Fitrah refers to having a pure heart which is ready to accept the truth, and that a person would be a Muslim if no one influenced him (while growing up) to change his natural inclination towards Islam."


This gets even deeper when one realizes that the human being, this supreme being on earth, this """animal""" that dominated completely all animals, can't even survive prorperly in a group of he is devoid of any sense of belief and purpose, contrary to millions and millions of other species who are way less intelligent than him. The human being, the only being that believes, yet we are trying to get convinced by edgy teenagers who go around claiming that the only purpose to life is to reproduce and survive, that this sense of belief is meaningless, empty, dumb, product of unguided chemicals and particles if not just a mere consequence.

To go further and prove this, there was a 2 million pound study carried by Oxford university with the purpose to investigate this specific matter, and this were the results

"A three-year international research project, directed by two academics at the University of Oxford, finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife.

The £1.9 million project involved 57 researchers who conducted over 40 separate studies in 20 countries representing a diverse range of cultures.

The studies (both analytical and empirical) conclude that humans are predisposed to believe in God and an afterlife"

Some findings of the Cognition, Religion and Theology Project:

Studies by Emily Reed Burdett and Justin Barrett, from the University of Oxford, suggest that children below the age of five find it easier to believe in some superhuman properties than to understand similar human limitations. Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a box in which she could not see. Children aged three believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers are not all-seeing and all knowing. However, children may continue to believe in all-seeing, all-knowing supernatural agents, such as a god or gods.Experiments involving adults, conducted by Jing Zhu from Tsinghua University (China), and Natalie Emmons and Jesse Bering from The Queen's University, Belfast, suggest that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural 'dualists' finding it easy to conceive of the separation of the mind and the body.



It clearly does. Thousands of civilizations who happen to be the only ones who survive a long time enough without the necessity to being extremely numerous to be noticed (Contrary to current western society) are a proof of this.

You want to sell us this devoid of purpose life yet everything i see is purposeful. In fact i challenge you to tell me one thing that is happening which holds absoletuly no purpose nor chain explanation, ONE SINGLE EVENT. But, we are supposed to believe that THE MOST IMPORTANT event, the beggining of everything, was just a mere product of randomness and chance (Two words used to recognize one's ignorance but without sounding ignorant, as both of those words don't exists by themselves to begin with. I recommend Firas Zahabi with Joe Rogan debate Scientific Truth for more depth into this)

No, it doesn't logically at all follow that God shouldn't exist. This is one of the biggest fallacies you have used until now, and you have certainly been breaking some fallacious record prior to this one.

Really what you are saying here is "Since quantum physics and mechanics don't follow the traditional 1+1=2, then God doesn’t exist", as if God wasn't described as a Being completely superior to all of this matters Who created them in the first place, and as if that somehow debunked the fact that everything that happens including the smallest of leaves that falls from the tree follows a chain of command driven with purpose, independently of whether it is driven by a subset of quantum physics elements under the set of traditional witnessable logic that we understand.

Apart from the fact that this is another heavily rushed reductive conclusion which is not true obviously (Remember people, a false premise is an incorrect proposition that forms the basis of an argument or syllogism. Since the premise {proposition, or assumption} is not correct, the conclusion drawn may be in error). But besides that, i wish you had the same mental fortitude to describe your moral compasses the same.

Everytime someone from you family died, or you go to a cemetery and see someone mourning their son, etc, please, have the mental strenght to tell them/tell yourself in the face that his mere existence was an accident, and same with yours.

However i doubt it, you didn't even had the balls to say that atheists are devoid of any moral compass which is not naturally driven (Whose only explanation is that it comes instinctively from a Creator) in a involuntary celibates thread, let alone to get out of your basement and do so face to face. This showcases again the miserable existence of the atheist, walking shamefully in the street bowing down his head, knowing he is the same as a bacteria in a bathroom, living a life that is empty and useless.

Translation: "I don't have any explanation for belief instincts, so i will hide in randomness and chance and the long history of human civilization praying (Funny enough) that there is a hole of miliseconds that explains why we have such complex belief systems, and why i rely on those instinctive belief interior systems for my morality and overall daily life"

Ladies and gentlemen, this brings us to the cruz of everything with this user. The other day he confessed that his reason for atheism was that he didn’t get his churro wet with a woman "Muh because of religion". He said and i quote from the atheist hero, this "walking learned philosopher" who "read every religious book there is", TheBuffdon860: "Religion in general is dogshit, but Islam is takes it to another level. Could have lost my virginity time and time again if it wasn’t for this cuck religion"

It always boils down to this with these people. Pure emotion, zero logic, zero mental strenght, zero anything with real value.

It's the famous paradox all over again. "I destroy a house in the last party i had (Or want to have) and my landlord comes to whom i own everything and he asks me for explanations. I have therefore two options: 1-Asking forgiveness, pay reparations, recognize my mistakes, own up, make an effort and improve myself. 2- Deny that the house is owned by the landlord by all means possible, even if it is written on every single square meter of the house (Atheism)

Theorizing without any basis about that which is heavily primitive on it's knowledge. All you have really.

Basically recognizing that you argument is completely rotten from the beggining, and that it does not prove anything at all because it has been destroyed since centuries by now.

They don't even believe in evil so who cares about what atheist philosophers believe? For them evil doesn’t exist, it's a moral construct, a lie, same as good. They themselves give no value to their words (Except to gain money of course)

What certain evils?? Do you have a scale as an atheist??? You don't believe in evil

We believers and muslims in specific do have scales of evil in which all case scenarios are contemplated and explained.

Also it's funny that you can't even realize your own contradictions within few lines. For once you say "It seems intuitively implausible for God to allow certain evils to occur" but then your entire argument relies on human intuition, which is something that as proven above leads to the existence of God and an afterlife being true as proven by the above comments and studies posted.

This is not our point of view. Again you sre misrepresenting completely our position and mixing it up with yours.

YOU are the one as an atheist who believes evim "is more lf an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone's own perception"

WE believe that evil is clearly defined by God in His scriptures and revelations, period. Same with good.

Irrelevant as first, any study that tries to so will get vastly different responses from civilization to civilization (Just look at homosexuality, which is highly shunned upon in 85% of the world while considered one of the greatest evils and accepted and celebrated the west).

All your argument will be based on made up rating scales of good and evil based on your interpretation and i can see it already.

There clearly is, but you are playing sneaky for anyone who is ignorant. You are sticking with your particular definition that all evil is instinctive somehow and that's the only way to define it. As i said, evil is already defined for us people who believe in religions, especially monotheistic ones. We don't adhere to these empty standards.

No doubt that evil is detectable instinctively, same as good (Greatly affected by the Fitrah), but it is so vastly variable if you just rely on instincts (Which are also irremediably affected by several other events like people and society) that you could pick up 5 psychos together and for them killing a hobo would not be remotely evil to begin with.

False. You wouldn't have only to do that, but also to learn the entirety of human history when you can't even know who stole your banana from the fridge, you would need to descipher all the enviroment of every single individual, all the people he hang out with, every single of his interactions and see how they affected his views, make extremely deep analysis of his thoughts with technology we don't possess (And probably we will never possess), etc

Yes, basically you want the entire blueprint of humanity, an Ultimate Book. Basically you are recognizing the necessity of an Ultimate Guide to define Good and Evil. This as religious people we already have, we muslims call it Qur'an and it explains to us what is good and evil, how we should govern ourselves, etc.

You really are critizicing us for adhering to that which you lack and wish you had. A code of life that gives purpose.

You are so funny bro look at how in laughing...

"SO So hard"

Translation: "I have no idea of what i'm doing and what to use as a starting point because as an atheist i lack any sense of morality and purpose"

Just the hopefully part completely debunks every inch or iota of certainty your argument might have remotely hold

Irrelevant. You don't believe in Good and Evil and the only way for them to exist is if there was an Ultimate Judge who defines them properly.

False. Too many fake premises as usual.

For once, you are the one who believes that all those evil acts you describe are not even evil, they are simply acts that happened and you insinctively individualistically (Supposedly, at least that's what you claim) perceive them as evil whereas the japanese and germans, two of the most "advanced" civilizations in history according to materialistic standards, and were heavily inspired by prominent atheists like Nietchzche, didn't perceive them as such but as an ultimate good.

Really the "Most people part is such an empty argument". Most people could be convinced within 6 months (Don't even doubt this) of current media propaganda that cannibalism is actually good (This study has already been done by the way by a recently famous spanish general).

Most people in Israel hate Palestinians and see them as "human animals". Most people in Nazi Germany hated the jews. This most people dynamic is a waste of time and you are basing your entire argument on it.

As religious people we don't believe that evil doesn’t gave a purpose.

In Islam, paired with the above mentioned ignorance verses, we also believe that the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: "Wondrous is the affair of the believer for there is good for him in every matter and this is not the case with anyone except the believer. If he is happy, then he thanks Allah and thus there is good for him, and if he is harmed, then he shows patience and thus there is good for him."
Islam is the only main religion which addresses the Problem of Evil directly.
Allah says in the Qur'an (Interpretation of the meaning): And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
This leads us to the blatant assumption and contradiction in the entirety of your argument. You assume that an afterlife where proper justice will apply doesn’t exist.

I could understand this line of argumentation with someone who believes in Karma or any sort of justice concept in which such is served exclusively in this life. But for someone who believes in an afterlife in which accounts will be settled based on what happens in this life??? What's even more amazing, is that your entire argument is based on "instictively" describing and rating evil, yet YOU DENY THE INSTINCTIVE NECESSITY AND BELIEF OF AN AFTERLIFE, already proven above by the famous Oxford study and by the history of humdreds of civilizations set apart which held the same belief.

The basis of your argument is this sort of pseudoinvented morality rating scale based on extremely subjective human instinct but then you scratch all human instinct and it's predisposition of belief in an afterlife once it doesn't serve your purpose of denying a Just God. It's like playing a basketball match but you do it without the basket because it doesn't serve your purpose since you know you are doomed to lose the game in any scenario.

Allah describes your kind in the best of words in His Holy Book (Interpretation of the meaning): And they denied and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement.


Ireelevant. God gives us free will and tests us on it. We are not angels who follow all the commands of God, we are given the option to be better than angels or worse than animals depending on our decisions, and have better or worse rewards than them in our afterlife.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): Do people think once they say, “We believe,” that they will be left without being put to the test? Or do the evildoers ˹simply˺ think that they will escape Us? How wrong is their judgment! Whoever hopes for the meeting with Allah, ˹let them know that˺ Allah’s appointed time is sure to come. He is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. We have commanded people to honour their parents. But if they urge you to associate with Me what you have no knowledge of, then do not obey them. To Me you will ˹all˺ return, and then I will inform you of what you used to do.

Whatever it seems to you is completely irrelevant and not only that, but baseless as already proven.

Free will allows both good and bad to happen. God commands good to happen and forbids bad, makes rulings based on such and promoting the first.

Anything outside that is not free will. Funny that this comes from the people who constantly champion "Freedom and liberty" but when they are given the option they cry because it doesn't fit their purposes and desires during that specific moment

God is not made up of parts. We believe that God has hands, a face, etc, (Depending on the school of thought), but we don't believe those can be considered parts at all but only a Unique One Being.

Allah says: "He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent; and He has full knowledge of all things"

We believe that Allah is Al Ahad (The Unique), and He says (Interpretation of the meaning): There is nothing like Him, for He (alone) is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.”
And He also says (Interpretation of the meaning): Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
Ibn Taymiyyah said: "The word “body” is very general. It could refer to something that was put together, of which the parts were separate then they were put together; or something that can be divided and separated into parts; or something that consists of physical material and an image; or something that consists of single particles that are put together, but Allah, may He be exalted, is far above all that; or something that was separate then came together; or something that can be divided and separated, meaning that one part of the thing separates from another part; or it may indicate some other meaning that refers to something that is put together – which is impossible in the case of Allah."

The contingency argument is one of the golden bullets. The argument that simply can't be debunked by any current means. Will be addressed in another thread Insha Allah.

Basically you are recognizing that God exists without doing so.

All your thread is like this.

You destroyed your entire argument with one word, "seems".

Your entire argument is destroyed with the word "Agency" and the definition you give to it, which is a misrepresentation that makes it seem as if we believe God is acting with the permission of another being (Something which would lead to an impossible Infinite Regress which would lead to believe in the existence of an Ultimate Creator as the only credible argument) and also based on that God is inside and limited by time. We believe God is Eternal and is not limited by time, and we also believe that this concept cannot be completely conceived by beings who are stucked inside time like us, but only thought and reflected upon. This is proof of the superiority of God in regards to humankind and to creation if anything, not the contrary.

God is not limited by time and doesn’t have to make a decision to exist. You are limited by time and you are making God a human being who is also limited by time to fit your argument. One of the contentions against Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) being God by the way

No, He is not inside time. He doesn't have to "push a button" or "decide" to cease existing because those concepts are outside of Him, He is not subject to them like we are.

Yes, His non existence is impossible, therefore His existence is Neceessary

Impossible: not possible; unable to be, exist, happen, etc. unable to be done, performed, effected, etc.
Necessary: determined, existing, or happening by natural laws or predestination; inevitable.
It doesn't have any mechanism to cease existing because He is outside time. This is really the "God can't lift a rock stronger than him that He created" argument

This argument is not valid at all because the power of Allaah is not connected to irrationalities and contradictions. God won't do anything that goes against His attributes.

Calling yourself an "High IQ thinker" is the biggest overstatement i have seen since the "Most moral army in the world" claim made by the israelis

Yes. And that's why atheism is deemed to never prosper and dissapear.

Just the fact that we need God to prosper and we know we need Him, is a proof of His existence to anyone with a sane intellect.


Translation: "Bla bla bla i'm so open minded bla bla bla give me like give me react give me validation in an incel forum"

@SecularIslamist @Fiqh @Hamdan @Michael Myers @emeraldglass @coispet @wsada @TsarTsar444 @HarrierDuBois @st.hamudi but 6‘5 @RAMU KAKA @STAMPEDE @try2beme @SubhumanCurrycel @bndar.337
Read half of it, W thread may Allah bless you. BASED ASF
 
  • +1
Reactions: rg1235, Autismcel and st.hamudi but 6‘5
I’m not not reading it cuz its long I’m not reading it cuz I got stuff to do JFL. Also not sure why you’re switch up so quick thought we were tight
i will call you out when you‘re wrong, even if you‘re cool to me
 
This is completely true. Atheists have no sense of morality nor purpose (Apart from the inherent one which only Islam addresses among the big religions, the Fitrah or Natural Inclination). Atheism (Or really polytheism because atheism isn't more than making your own desires/whatever it is why you disbelief in One God as your new God) is a rotten ideology that existed since almost the beggining of times, and NEVER prospered in any civilization that seeked to reproduce and extend their lineage because the end line would have been ALWAYS the same. DESTRUCTION OF THE HUMAN RACE because of lack of sense of purpose dedicated to a life of hedonism and after the failure of hedonism the switch to utter oblivion and hopelesness.

You know why you never heard about an atheist society? The same exact reason why you never heard about an extremely peaceful society, because if such cases of small populations even had a chance to be THEY CEASED TO EXIST completely within years in a world with extremely low age expectancy.

The only atheist society you will ever hear of is the unique case of the current western civilization, which will also cease to exist in it's current form during the next years, or otherwise dissapear.

Completely false. You are anything but unbiased and anyone with half a brain cell can see it. It's a nice bed to try and slither into it but to the semi trained eye you are not but an useless demagogue who is trying to gain empathy and likes in a involuntary celibates forum, which is pretty much some of the lowest one can get.

Is this the purpose you were speaking about before???

It's a completely empty line of argumentation trying to justify your sense of the afterlife not existing because of "Muh feelings, good and evil".

The fact that this life itself exist is one of the biggest proofs for the afterlife. This life as we know it shouldn't exist, it doesn't hold sense, however it does and ot exists against what seemed all odds and challenging all possibilities by means of almost impossible mathematical equations that could have only been designed by someone in the way even a toddler perceives the world.

Before trying to explain an afterlife, i would suggest first to try to explain this life first, something which your colleagues (Or should i say masters) have failed during the ages and whose only arguments have been "Science will reveal it one day" or "Chemicals and particles smacking eachother and coincidentally all the variables gave life even though it was nearly impossible. If you dare to challenge this then know it could have been any other way dude". Yes, any other way life didn't exist, yet here we are, in the almost impossible scenario and the miracle that life exists and we are discussing it.

The Qur'an in it's magnificency makes this argument (Interpretation of the meaning):

"He brings the living out of the dead and brings the dead out of the living and brings to life the earth after its lifelessness. And thus will you be brought out."​


God is not omnipresent but He sees and is a witness to everything that happens.

Ramblings from the basement (Or poloce station, although i hold doubts that something with your intellect or lack thereof would be even allowed in the Zimbabwe law enforcement) trying to gain more empathy and popularity, and also act as this kind of fake neutral character.

Debunked points thousands of times in this forum itself, let alone in other social media.

Since you present links i present people like Farid Responds, Sapience Institute, Muslim Skeptic, Jake the Metaphysician etc, that destroyed all this 21st century post 2001 garbage propaganda financed by the strongest powers in the world and repeated as parrots by their subjects and online prostitutes.

Another empty argument and misrepresentation which shows a clear lack of understanding of what Islam claims. Already addressed in this place several times.

In Islam we have the best system in this regard. We believe that God sent prophets to all nations, and that he didn’t judge them until He did so. Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): "We sent a messenger to every community, saying, ‘Worship God and shun false gods.’ Among them were some God guided; misguidance took hold of others. So travel through the earth and see what was the fate of those who denied the truth."
In another verse (Interpretation of the meaning): "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger."
The islamic settlement of the matter is clearly the only one that avoids your fallacies and comes from a Just God, who cares about His subjects and offers them Ultimate Justice. Ignorance? Don't worry, your Lord forgives you or judges you after giving you knowledge.

I'd go even further and say Islam is the only religion among the main ones that actually says kids who die before puberty go to paradise as muslims. Something which for some reason other religions couldn't extend their hand for (Only a Merciful God would do so) and let alone the atheist view, which already deems living children holding the same value as a bacteria in you bathroom.

Since seeing this garbage line of the post trying again to collect sympathy and act as if you hold any knowledge you have just made the Megathread of proof for God's existence now a thing in my agenda.

Stay tuned the next weeks.

This line of concrete evidence for God's existence without any kind of high level scientific investigation already exists and is heavily addressed in Islam. It's called Fitrah or Natural Inclination, and is something that applies to every human being with a sensibly open heart and mind.

The Fitrah is the concept that every human being is born with a inclination to believe in One God.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.
It is narrated that the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: “Every newborn is born in a state of fitrah. His parents make him a Jew, or a Christian, or Magian."

Ibn Taymiyyah said: "Being born on the Fitrah does not necessarily mean that one really believes in Islam at birth, because when Allaah brought us to this life (at birth) we do not know anything. Fitrah refers to having a pure heart which is ready to accept the truth, and that a person would be a Muslim if no one influenced him (while growing up) to change his natural inclination towards Islam."


This gets even deeper when one realizes that the human being, this supreme being on earth, this """animal""" that dominated completely all animals, can't even survive prorperly in a group of he is devoid of any sense of belief and purpose, contrary to millions and millions of other species who are way less intelligent than him. The human being, the only being that believes, yet we are trying to get convinced by edgy teenagers who go around claiming that the only purpose to life is to reproduce and survive, that this sense of belief is meaningless, empty, dumb, product of unguided chemicals and particles if not just a mere consequence.

To go further and prove this, there was a 2 million pound study carried by Oxford university with the purpose to investigate this specific matter, and this were the results

"A three-year international research project, directed by two academics at the University of Oxford, finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife.

The £1.9 million project involved 57 researchers who conducted over 40 separate studies in 20 countries representing a diverse range of cultures.

The studies (both analytical and empirical) conclude that humans are predisposed to believe in God and an afterlife"

Some findings of the Cognition, Religion and Theology Project:

Studies by Emily Reed Burdett and Justin Barrett, from the University of Oxford, suggest that children below the age of five find it easier to believe in some superhuman properties than to understand similar human limitations. Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a box in which she could not see. Children aged three believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers are not all-seeing and all knowing. However, children may continue to believe in all-seeing, all-knowing supernatural agents, such as a god or gods.Experiments involving adults, conducted by Jing Zhu from Tsinghua University (China), and Natalie Emmons and Jesse Bering from The Queen's University, Belfast, suggest that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural 'dualists' finding it easy to conceive of the separation of the mind and the body.



It clearly does. Thousands of civilizations who happen to be the only ones who survive a long time enough without the necessity to being extremely numerous to be noticed (Contrary to current western society) are a proof of this.

You want to sell us this devoid of purpose life yet everything i see is purposeful. In fact i challenge you to tell me one thing that is happening which holds absoletuly no purpose nor chain explanation, ONE SINGLE EVENT. But, we are supposed to believe that THE MOST IMPORTANT event, the beggining of everything, was just a mere product of randomness and chance (Two words used to recognize one's ignorance but without sounding ignorant, as both of those words don't exists by themselves to begin with. I recommend Firas Zahabi with Joe Rogan debate Scientific Truth for more depth into this)

No, it doesn't logically at all follow that God shouldn't exist. This is one of the biggest fallacies you have used until now, and you have certainly been breaking some fallacious record prior to this one.

Really what you are saying here is "Since quantum physics and mechanics don't follow the traditional 1+1=2, then God doesn’t exist", as if God wasn't described as a Being completely superior to all of this matters Who created them in the first place, and as if that somehow debunked the fact that everything that happens including the smallest of leaves that falls from the tree follows a chain of command driven with purpose, independently of whether it is driven by a subset of quantum physics elements under the set of traditional witnessable logic that we understand.

Apart from the fact that this is another heavily rushed reductive conclusion which is not true obviously (Remember people, a false premise is an incorrect proposition that forms the basis of an argument or syllogism. Since the premise {proposition, or assumption} is not correct, the conclusion drawn may be in error). But besides that, i wish you had the same mental fortitude to describe your moral compasses the same.

Everytime someone from you family died, or you go to a cemetery and see someone mourning their son, etc, please, have the mental strenght to tell them/tell yourself in the face that his mere existence was an accident, and same with yours.

However i doubt it, you didn't even had the balls to say that atheists are devoid of any moral compass which is not naturally driven (Whose only explanation is that it comes instinctively from a Creator) in a involuntary celibates thread, let alone to get out of your basement and do so face to face. This showcases again the miserable existence of the atheist, walking shamefully in the street bowing down his head, knowing he is the same as a bacteria in a bathroom, living a life that is empty and useless.

Translation: "I don't have any explanation for belief instincts, so i will hide in randomness and chance and the long history of human civilization praying (Funny enough) that there is a hole of miliseconds that explains why we have such complex belief systems, and why i rely on those instinctive belief interior systems for my morality and overall daily life"

Ladies and gentlemen, this brings us to the cruz of everything with this user. The other day he confessed that his reason for atheism was that he didn’t get his churro wet with a woman "Muh because of religion". He said and i quote from the atheist hero, this "walking learned philosopher" who "read every religious book there is", TheBuffdon860: "Religion in general is dogshit, but Islam is takes it to another level. Could have lost my virginity time and time again if it wasn’t for this cuck religion"

It always boils down to this with these people. Pure emotion, zero logic, zero mental strenght, zero anything with real value.

It's the famous paradox all over again. "I destroy a house in the last party i had (Or want to have) and my landlord comes to whom i own everything and he asks me for explanations. I have therefore two options: 1-Asking forgiveness, pay reparations, recognize my mistakes, own up, make an effort and improve myself. 2- Deny that the house is owned by the landlord by all means possible, even if it is written on every single square meter of the house (Atheism)

Theorizing without any basis about that which is heavily primitive on it's knowledge. All you have really.

Basically recognizing that you argument is completely rotten from the beggining, and that it does not prove anything at all because it has been destroyed since centuries by now.

They don't even believe in evil so who cares about what atheist philosophers believe? For them evil doesn’t exist, it's a moral construct, a lie, same as good. They themselves give no value to their words (Except to gain money of course)

What certain evils?? Do you have a scale as an atheist??? You don't believe in evil

We believers and muslims in specific do have scales of evil in which all case scenarios are contemplated and explained.

Also it's funny that you can't even realize your own contradictions within few lines. For once you say "It seems intuitively implausible for God to allow certain evils to occur" but then your entire argument relies on human intuition, which is something that as proven above leads to the existence of God and an afterlife being true as proven by the above comments and studies posted.

This is not our point of view. Again you sre misrepresenting completely our position and mixing it up with yours.

YOU are the one as an atheist who believes evim "is more lf an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone's own perception"

WE believe that evil is clearly defined by God in His scriptures and revelations, period. Same with good.

Irrelevant as first, any study that tries to so will get vastly different responses from civilization to civilization (Just look at homosexuality, which is highly shunned upon in 85% of the world while considered one of the greatest evils and accepted and celebrated the west).

All your argument will be based on made up rating scales of good and evil based on your interpretation and i can see it already.

There clearly is, but you are playing sneaky for anyone who is ignorant. You are sticking with your particular definition that all evil is instinctive somehow and that's the only way to define it. As i said, evil is already defined for us people who believe in religions, especially monotheistic ones. We don't adhere to these empty standards.

No doubt that evil is detectable instinctively, same as good (Greatly affected by the Fitrah), but it is so vastly variable if you just rely on instincts (Which are also irremediably affected by several other events like people and society) that you could pick up 5 psychos together and for them killing a hobo would not be remotely evil to begin with.

False. You wouldn't have only to do that, but also to learn the entirety of human history when you can't even know who stole your banana from the fridge, you would need to descipher all the enviroment of every single individual, all the people he hang out with, every single of his interactions and see how they affected his views, make extremely deep analysis of his thoughts with technology we don't possess (And probably we will never possess), etc

Yes, basically you want the entire blueprint of humanity, an Ultimate Book. Basically you are recognizing the necessity of an Ultimate Guide to define Good and Evil. This as religious people we already have, we muslims call it Qur'an and it explains to us what is good and evil, how we should govern ourselves, etc.

You really are critizicing us for adhering to that which you lack and wish you had. A code of life that gives purpose.

You are so funny bro look at how in laughing...

"SO So hard"

Translation: "I have no idea of what i'm doing and what to use as a starting point because as an atheist i lack any sense of morality and purpose"

Just the hopefully part completely debunks every inch or iota of certainty your argument might have remotely hold

Irrelevant. You don't believe in Good and Evil and the only way for them to exist is if there was an Ultimate Judge who defines them properly.

False. Too many fake premises as usual.

For once, you are the one who believes that all those evil acts you describe are not even evil, they are simply acts that happened and you insinctively individualistically (Supposedly, at least that's what you claim) perceive them as evil whereas the japanese and germans, two of the most "advanced" civilizations in history according to materialistic standards, and were heavily inspired by prominent atheists like Nietchzche, didn't perceive them as such but as an ultimate good.

Really the "Most people part is such an empty argument". Most people could be convinced within 6 months (Don't even doubt this) of current media propaganda that cannibalism is actually good (This study has already been done by the way by a recently famous spanish general).

Most people in Israel hate Palestinians and see them as "human animals". Most people in Nazi Germany hated the jews. This most people dynamic is a waste of time and you are basing your entire argument on it.

As religious people we don't believe that evil doesn’t gave a purpose.

In Islam, paired with the above mentioned ignorance verses, we also believe that the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: "Wondrous is the affair of the believer for there is good for him in every matter and this is not the case with anyone except the believer. If he is happy, then he thanks Allah and thus there is good for him, and if he is harmed, then he shows patience and thus there is good for him."
Islam is the only main religion which addresses the Problem of Evil directly.
Allah says in the Qur'an (Interpretation of the meaning): And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
This leads us to the blatant assumption and contradiction in the entirety of your argument. You assume that an afterlife where proper justice will apply doesn’t exist.

I could understand this line of argumentation with someone who believes in Karma or any sort of justice concept in which such is served exclusively in this life. But for someone who believes in an afterlife in which accounts will be settled based on what happens in this life??? What's even more amazing, is that your entire argument is based on "instictively" describing and rating evil, yet YOU DENY THE INSTINCTIVE NECESSITY AND BELIEF OF AN AFTERLIFE, already proven above by the famous Oxford study and by the history of humdreds of civilizations set apart which held the same belief.

The basis of your argument is this sort of pseudoinvented morality rating scale based on extremely subjective human instinct but then you scratch all human instinct and it's predisposition of belief in an afterlife once it doesn't serve your purpose of denying a Just God. It's like playing a basketball match but you do it without the basket because it doesn't serve your purpose since you know you are doomed to lose the game in any scenario.

Allah describes your kind in the best of words in His Holy Book (Interpretation of the meaning): And they denied and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement.


Ireelevant. God gives us free will and tests us on it. We are not angels who follow all the commands of God, we are given the option to be better than angels or worse than animals depending on our decisions, and have better or worse rewards than them in our afterlife.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): Do people think once they say, “We believe,” that they will be left without being put to the test? Or do the evildoers ˹simply˺ think that they will escape Us? How wrong is their judgment! Whoever hopes for the meeting with Allah, ˹let them know that˺ Allah’s appointed time is sure to come. He is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. We have commanded people to honour their parents. But if they urge you to associate with Me what you have no knowledge of, then do not obey them. To Me you will ˹all˺ return, and then I will inform you of what you used to do.

Whatever it seems to you is completely irrelevant and not only that, but baseless as already proven.

Free will allows both good and bad to happen. God commands good to happen and forbids bad, makes rulings based on such and promoting the first.

Anything outside that is not free will. Funny that this comes from the people who constantly champion "Freedom and liberty" but when they are given the option they cry because it doesn't fit their purposes and desires during that specific moment

God is not made up of parts. We believe that God has hands, a face, etc, (Depending on the school of thought), but we don't believe those can be considered parts at all but only a Unique One Being.

Allah says: "He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent; and He has full knowledge of all things"

We believe that Allah is Al Ahad (The Unique), and He says (Interpretation of the meaning): There is nothing like Him, for He (alone) is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.”
And He also says (Interpretation of the meaning): Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
Ibn Taymiyyah said: "The word “body” is very general. It could refer to something that was put together, of which the parts were separate then they were put together; or something that can be divided and separated into parts; or something that consists of physical material and an image; or something that consists of single particles that are put together, but Allah, may He be exalted, is far above all that; or something that was separate then came together; or something that can be divided and separated, meaning that one part of the thing separates from another part; or it may indicate some other meaning that refers to something that is put together – which is impossible in the case of Allah."

The contingency argument is one of the golden bullets. The argument that simply can't be debunked by any current means. Will be addressed in another thread Insha Allah.

Basically you are recognizing that God exists without doing so.

All your thread is like this.

You destroyed your entire argument with one word, "seems".

Your entire argument is destroyed with the word "Agency" and the definition you give to it, which is a misrepresentation that makes it seem as if we believe God is acting with the permission of another being (Something which would lead to an impossible Infinite Regress which would lead to believe in the existence of an Ultimate Creator as the only credible argument) and also based on that God is inside and limited by time. We believe God is Eternal and is not limited by time, and we also believe that this concept cannot be completely conceived by beings who are stucked inside time like us, but only thought and reflected upon. This is proof of the superiority of God in regards to humankind and to creation if anything, not the contrary.

God is not limited by time and doesn’t have to make a decision to exist. You are limited by time and you are making God a human being who is also limited by time to fit your argument. One of the contentions against Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) being God by the way

No, He is not inside time. He doesn't have to "push a button" or "decide" to cease existing because those concepts are outside of Him, He is not subject to them like we are.

Yes, His non existence is impossible, therefore His existence is Neceessary

Impossible: not possible; unable to be, exist, happen, etc. unable to be done, performed, effected, etc.
Necessary: determined, existing, or happening by natural laws or predestination; inevitable.
It doesn't have any mechanism to cease existing because He is outside time. This is really the "God can't lift a rock stronger than him that He created" argument

This argument is not valid at all because the power of Allaah is not connected to irrationalities and contradictions. God won't do anything that goes against His attributes.

Calling yourself an "High IQ thinker" is the biggest overstatement i have seen since the "Most moral army in the world" claim made by the israelis

Yes. And that's why atheism is deemed to never prosper and dissapear.

Just the fact that we need God to prosper and we know we need Him, is a proof of His existence to anyone with a sane intellect.


Translation: "Bla bla bla i'm so open minded bla bla bla give me like give me react give me validation in an incel forum"

@SecularIslamist @Fiqh @Hamdan @Michael Myers @emeraldglass @coispet @wsada @TsarTsar444 @HarrierDuBois @st.hamudi but 6‘5 @RAMU KAKA @STAMPEDE @try2beme @SubhumanCurrycel @bndar.337
Mash Allah brother.
 
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its 2024, noone cares about religious beliefs. this isnt the 00s were being and atheist was "kewl" and "radical". nowdays, the only thing that matters is FACE
 
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This is completely true. Atheists have no sense of morality nor purpose (Apart from the inherent one which only Islam addresses among the big religions, the Fitrah or Natural Inclination). Atheism (Or really polytheism because atheism isn't more than making your own desires/whatever it is why you disbelief in One God as your new God) is a rotten ideology that existed since almost the beggining of times, and NEVER prospered in any civilization that seeked to reproduce and extend their lineage because the end line would have been ALWAYS the same. DESTRUCTION OF THE HUMAN RACE because of lack of sense of purpose dedicated to a life of hedonism and after the failure of hedonism the switch to utter oblivion and hopelesness.

You know why you never heard about an atheist society? The same exact reason why you never heard about an extremely peaceful society, because if such cases of small populations even had a chance to be THEY CEASED TO EXIST completely within years in a world with extremely low age expectancy.

The only atheist society you will ever hear of is the unique case of the current western civilization, which will also cease to exist in it's current form during the next years, or otherwise dissapear.

Completely false. You are anything but unbiased and anyone with half a brain cell can see it. It's a nice bed to try and slither into it but to the semi trained eye you are not but an useless demagogue who is trying to gain empathy and likes in a involuntary celibates forum, which is pretty much some of the lowest one can get.

Is this the purpose you were speaking about before???

It's a completely empty line of argumentation trying to justify your sense of the afterlife not existing because of "Muh feelings, good and evil".

The fact that this life itself exist is one of the biggest proofs for the afterlife. This life as we know it shouldn't exist, it doesn't hold sense, however it does and ot exists against what seemed all odds and challenging all possibilities by means of almost impossible mathematical equations that could have only been designed by someone in the way even a toddler perceives the world.

Before trying to explain an afterlife, i would suggest first to try to explain this life first, something which your colleagues (Or should i say masters) have failed during the ages and whose only arguments have been "Science will reveal it one day" or "Chemicals and particles smacking eachother and coincidentally all the variables gave life even though it was nearly impossible. If you dare to challenge this then know it could have been any other way dude". Yes, any other way life didn't exist, yet here we are, in the almost impossible scenario and the miracle that life exists and we are discussing it.

The Qur'an in it's magnificency makes this argument (Interpretation of the meaning):

"He brings the living out of the dead and brings the dead out of the living and brings to life the earth after its lifelessness. And thus will you be brought out."​


God is not omnipresent but He sees and is a witness to everything that happens.

Ramblings from the basement (Or poloce station, although i hold doubts that something with your intellect or lack thereof would be even allowed in the Zimbabwe law enforcement) trying to gain more empathy and popularity, and also act as this kind of fake neutral character.

Debunked points thousands of times in this forum itself, let alone in other social media.

Since you present links i present people like Farid Responds, Sapience Institute, Muslim Skeptic, Jake the Metaphysician etc, that destroyed all this 21st century post 2001 garbage propaganda financed by the strongest powers in the world and repeated as parrots by their subjects and online prostitutes.

Another empty argument and misrepresentation which shows a clear lack of understanding of what Islam claims. Already addressed in this place several times.

In Islam we have the best system in this regard. We believe that God sent prophets to all nations, and that he didn’t judge them until He did so. Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): "We sent a messenger to every community, saying, ‘Worship God and shun false gods.’ Among them were some God guided; misguidance took hold of others. So travel through the earth and see what was the fate of those who denied the truth."
In another verse (Interpretation of the meaning): "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger."
The islamic settlement of the matter is clearly the only one that avoids your fallacies and comes from a Just God, who cares about His subjects and offers them Ultimate Justice. Ignorance? Don't worry, your Lord forgives you or judges you after giving you knowledge.

I'd go even further and say Islam is the only religion among the main ones that actually says kids who die before puberty go to paradise as muslims. Something which for some reason other religions couldn't extend their hand for (Only a Merciful God would do so) and let alone the atheist view, which already deems living children holding the same value as a bacteria in you bathroom.

Since seeing this garbage line of the post trying again to collect sympathy and act as if you hold any knowledge you have just made the Megathread of proof for God's existence now a thing in my agenda.

Stay tuned the next weeks.

This line of concrete evidence for God's existence without any kind of high level scientific investigation already exists and is heavily addressed in Islam. It's called Fitrah or Natural Inclination, and is something that applies to every human being with a sensibly open heart and mind.

The Fitrah is the concept that every human being is born with a inclination to believe in One God.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.
It is narrated that the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: “Every newborn is born in a state of fitrah. His parents make him a Jew, or a Christian, or Magian."

Ibn Taymiyyah said: "Being born on the Fitrah does not necessarily mean that one really believes in Islam at birth, because when Allaah brought us to this life (at birth) we do not know anything. Fitrah refers to having a pure heart which is ready to accept the truth, and that a person would be a Muslim if no one influenced him (while growing up) to change his natural inclination towards Islam."


This gets even deeper when one realizes that the human being, this supreme being on earth, this """animal""" that dominated completely all animals, can't even survive prorperly in a group of he is devoid of any sense of belief and purpose, contrary to millions and millions of other species who are way less intelligent than him. The human being, the only being that believes, yet we are trying to get convinced by edgy teenagers who go around claiming that the only purpose to life is to reproduce and survive, that this sense of belief is meaningless, empty, dumb, product of unguided chemicals and particles if not just a mere consequence.

To go further and prove this, there was a 2 million pound study carried by Oxford university with the purpose to investigate this specific matter, and this were the results

"A three-year international research project, directed by two academics at the University of Oxford, finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife.

The £1.9 million project involved 57 researchers who conducted over 40 separate studies in 20 countries representing a diverse range of cultures.

The studies (both analytical and empirical) conclude that humans are predisposed to believe in God and an afterlife"

Some findings of the Cognition, Religion and Theology Project:

Studies by Emily Reed Burdett and Justin Barrett, from the University of Oxford, suggest that children below the age of five find it easier to believe in some superhuman properties than to understand similar human limitations. Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a box in which she could not see. Children aged three believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers are not all-seeing and all knowing. However, children may continue to believe in all-seeing, all-knowing supernatural agents, such as a god or gods.Experiments involving adults, conducted by Jing Zhu from Tsinghua University (China), and Natalie Emmons and Jesse Bering from The Queen's University, Belfast, suggest that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural 'dualists' finding it easy to conceive of the separation of the mind and the body.



It clearly does. Thousands of civilizations who happen to be the only ones who survive a long time enough without the necessity to being extremely numerous to be noticed (Contrary to current western society) are a proof of this.

You want to sell us this devoid of purpose life yet everything i see is purposeful. In fact i challenge you to tell me one thing that is happening which holds absoletuly no purpose nor chain explanation, ONE SINGLE EVENT. But, we are supposed to believe that THE MOST IMPORTANT event, the beggining of everything, was just a mere product of randomness and chance (Two words used to recognize one's ignorance but without sounding ignorant, as both of those words don't exists by themselves to begin with. I recommend Firas Zahabi with Joe Rogan debate Scientific Truth for more depth into this)

No, it doesn't logically at all follow that God shouldn't exist. This is one of the biggest fallacies you have used until now, and you have certainly been breaking some fallacious record prior to this one.

Really what you are saying here is "Since quantum physics and mechanics don't follow the traditional 1+1=2, then God doesn’t exist", as if God wasn't described as a Being completely superior to all of this matters Who created them in the first place, and as if that somehow debunked the fact that everything that happens including the smallest of leaves that falls from the tree follows a chain of command driven with purpose, independently of whether it is driven by a subset of quantum physics elements under the set of traditional witnessable logic that we understand.

Apart from the fact that this is another heavily rushed reductive conclusion which is not true obviously (Remember people, a false premise is an incorrect proposition that forms the basis of an argument or syllogism. Since the premise {proposition, or assumption} is not correct, the conclusion drawn may be in error). But besides that, i wish you had the same mental fortitude to describe your moral compasses the same.

Everytime someone from you family died, or you go to a cemetery and see someone mourning their son, etc, please, have the mental strenght to tell them/tell yourself in the face that his mere existence was an accident, and same with yours.

However i doubt it, you didn't even had the balls to say that atheists are devoid of any moral compass which is not naturally driven (Whose only explanation is that it comes instinctively from a Creator) in a involuntary celibates thread, let alone to get out of your basement and do so face to face. This showcases again the miserable existence of the atheist, walking shamefully in the street bowing down his head, knowing he is the same as a bacteria in a bathroom, living a life that is empty and useless.

Translation: "I don't have any explanation for belief instincts, so i will hide in randomness and chance and the long history of human civilization praying (Funny enough) that there is a hole of miliseconds that explains why we have such complex belief systems, and why i rely on those instinctive belief interior systems for my morality and overall daily life"

Ladies and gentlemen, this brings us to the cruz of everything with this user. The other day he confessed that his reason for atheism was that he didn’t get his churro wet with a woman "Muh because of religion". He said and i quote from the atheist hero, this "walking learned philosopher" who "read every religious book there is", TheBuffdon860: "Religion in general is dogshit, but Islam is takes it to another level. Could have lost my virginity time and time again if it wasn’t for this cuck religion"

It always boils down to this with these people. Pure emotion, zero logic, zero mental strenght, zero anything with real value.

It's the famous paradox all over again. "I destroy a house in the last party i had (Or want to have) and my landlord comes to whom i own everything and he asks me for explanations. I have therefore two options: 1-Asking forgiveness, pay reparations, recognize my mistakes, own up, make an effort and improve myself. 2- Deny that the house is owned by the landlord by all means possible, even if it is written on every single square meter of the house (Atheism)

Theorizing without any basis about that which is heavily primitive on it's knowledge. All you have really.

Basically recognizing that you argument is completely rotten from the beggining, and that it does not prove anything at all because it has been destroyed since centuries by now.

They don't even believe in evil so who cares about what atheist philosophers believe? For them evil doesn’t exist, it's a moral construct, a lie, same as good. They themselves give no value to their words (Except to gain money of course)

What certain evils?? Do you have a scale as an atheist??? You don't believe in evil

We believers and muslims in specific do have scales of evil in which all case scenarios are contemplated and explained.

Also it's funny that you can't even realize your own contradictions within few lines. For once you say "It seems intuitively implausible for God to allow certain evils to occur" but then your entire argument relies on human intuition, which is something that as proven above leads to the existence of God and an afterlife being true as proven by the above comments and studies posted.

This is not our point of view. Again you sre misrepresenting completely our position and mixing it up with yours.

YOU are the one as an atheist who believes evim "is more lf an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone's own perception"

WE believe that evil is clearly defined by God in His scriptures and revelations, period. Same with good.

Irrelevant as first, any study that tries to so will get vastly different responses from civilization to civilization (Just look at homosexuality, which is highly shunned upon in 85% of the world while considered one of the greatest evils and accepted and celebrated the west).

All your argument will be based on made up rating scales of good and evil based on your interpretation and i can see it already.

There clearly is, but you are playing sneaky for anyone who is ignorant. You are sticking with your particular definition that all evil is instinctive somehow and that's the only way to define it. As i said, evil is already defined for us people who believe in religions, especially monotheistic ones. We don't adhere to these empty standards.

No doubt that evil is detectable instinctively, same as good (Greatly affected by the Fitrah), but it is so vastly variable if you just rely on instincts (Which are also irremediably affected by several other events like people and society) that you could pick up 5 psychos together and for them killing a hobo would not be remotely evil to begin with.

False. You wouldn't have only to do that, but also to learn the entirety of human history when you can't even know who stole your banana from the fridge, you would need to descipher all the enviroment of every single individual, all the people he hang out with, every single of his interactions and see how they affected his views, make extremely deep analysis of his thoughts with technology we don't possess (And probably we will never possess), etc

Yes, basically you want the entire blueprint of humanity, an Ultimate Book. Basically you are recognizing the necessity of an Ultimate Guide to define Good and Evil. This as religious people we already have, we muslims call it Qur'an and it explains to us what is good and evil, how we should govern ourselves, etc.

You really are critizicing us for adhering to that which you lack and wish you had. A code of life that gives purpose.

You are so funny bro look at how in laughing...

"SO So hard"

Translation: "I have no idea of what i'm doing and what to use as a starting point because as an atheist i lack any sense of morality and purpose"

Just the hopefully part completely debunks every inch or iota of certainty your argument might have remotely hold

Irrelevant. You don't believe in Good and Evil and the only way for them to exist is if there was an Ultimate Judge who defines them properly.

False. Too many fake premises as usual.

For once, you are the one who believes that all those evil acts you describe are not even evil, they are simply acts that happened and you insinctively individualistically (Supposedly, at least that's what you claim) perceive them as evil whereas the japanese and germans, two of the most "advanced" civilizations in history according to materialistic standards, and were heavily inspired by prominent atheists like Nietchzche, didn't perceive them as such but as an ultimate good.

Really the "Most people part is such an empty argument". Most people could be convinced within 6 months (Don't even doubt this) of current media propaganda that cannibalism is actually good (This study has already been done by the way by a recently famous spanish general).

Most people in Israel hate Palestinians and see them as "human animals". Most people in Nazi Germany hated the jews. This most people dynamic is a waste of time and you are basing your entire argument on it.

As religious people we don't believe that evil doesn’t gave a purpose.

In Islam, paired with the above mentioned ignorance verses, we also believe that the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: "Wondrous is the affair of the believer for there is good for him in every matter and this is not the case with anyone except the believer. If he is happy, then he thanks Allah and thus there is good for him, and if he is harmed, then he shows patience and thus there is good for him."
Islam is the only main religion which addresses the Problem of Evil directly.
Allah says in the Qur'an (Interpretation of the meaning): And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
This leads us to the blatant assumption and contradiction in the entirety of your argument. You assume that an afterlife where proper justice will apply doesn’t exist.

I could understand this line of argumentation with someone who believes in Karma or any sort of justice concept in which such is served exclusively in this life. But for someone who believes in an afterlife in which accounts will be settled based on what happens in this life??? What's even more amazing, is that your entire argument is based on "instictively" describing and rating evil, yet YOU DENY THE INSTINCTIVE NECESSITY AND BELIEF OF AN AFTERLIFE, already proven above by the famous Oxford study and by the history of humdreds of civilizations set apart which held the same belief.

The basis of your argument is this sort of pseudoinvented morality rating scale based on extremely subjective human instinct but then you scratch all human instinct and it's predisposition of belief in an afterlife once it doesn't serve your purpose of denying a Just God. It's like playing a basketball match but you do it without the basket because it doesn't serve your purpose since you know you are doomed to lose the game in any scenario.

Allah describes your kind in the best of words in His Holy Book (Interpretation of the meaning): And they denied and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement.


Ireelevant. God gives us free will and tests us on it. We are not angels who follow all the commands of God, we are given the option to be better than angels or worse than animals depending on our decisions, and have better or worse rewards than them in our afterlife.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): Do people think once they say, “We believe,” that they will be left without being put to the test? Or do the evildoers ˹simply˺ think that they will escape Us? How wrong is their judgment! Whoever hopes for the meeting with Allah, ˹let them know that˺ Allah’s appointed time is sure to come. He is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. We have commanded people to honour their parents. But if they urge you to associate with Me what you have no knowledge of, then do not obey them. To Me you will ˹all˺ return, and then I will inform you of what you used to do.

Whatever it seems to you is completely irrelevant and not only that, but baseless as already proven.

Free will allows both good and bad to happen. God commands good to happen and forbids bad, makes rulings based on such and promoting the first.

Anything outside that is not free will. Funny that this comes from the people who constantly champion "Freedom and liberty" but when they are given the option they cry because it doesn't fit their purposes and desires during that specific moment

God is not made up of parts. We believe that God has hands, a face, etc, (Depending on the school of thought), but we don't believe those can be considered parts at all but only a Unique One Being.

Allah says: "He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent; and He has full knowledge of all things"

We believe that Allah is Al Ahad (The Unique), and He says (Interpretation of the meaning): There is nothing like Him, for He (alone) is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.”
And He also says (Interpretation of the meaning): Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
Ibn Taymiyyah said: "The word “body” is very general. It could refer to something that was put together, of which the parts were separate then they were put together; or something that can be divided and separated into parts; or something that consists of physical material and an image; or something that consists of single particles that are put together, but Allah, may He be exalted, is far above all that; or something that was separate then came together; or something that can be divided and separated, meaning that one part of the thing separates from another part; or it may indicate some other meaning that refers to something that is put together – which is impossible in the case of Allah."

The contingency argument is one of the golden bullets. The argument that simply can't be debunked by any current means. Will be addressed in another thread Insha Allah.

Basically you are recognizing that God exists without doing so.

All your thread is like this.

You destroyed your entire argument with one word, "seems".

Your entire argument is destroyed with the word "Agency" and the definition you give to it, which is a misrepresentation that makes it seem as if we believe God is acting with the permission of another being (Something which would lead to an impossible Infinite Regress which would lead to believe in the existence of an Ultimate Creator as the only credible argument) and also based on that God is inside and limited by time. We believe God is Eternal and is not limited by time, and we also believe that this concept cannot be completely conceived by beings who are stucked inside time like us, but only thought and reflected upon. This is proof of the superiority of God in regards to humankind and to creation if anything, not the contrary.

God is not limited by time and doesn’t have to make a decision to exist. You are limited by time and you are making God a human being who is also limited by time to fit your argument. One of the contentions against Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) being God by the way

No, He is not inside time. He doesn't have to "push a button" or "decide" to cease existing because those concepts are outside of Him, He is not subject to them like we are.

Yes, His non existence is impossible, therefore His existence is Neceessary

Impossible: not possible; unable to be, exist, happen, etc. unable to be done, performed, effected, etc.
Necessary: determined, existing, or happening by natural laws or predestination; inevitable.
It doesn't have any mechanism to cease existing because He is outside time. This is really the "God can't lift a rock stronger than him that He created" argument

This argument is not valid at all because the power of Allaah is not connected to irrationalities and contradictions. God won't do anything that goes against His attributes.

Calling yourself an "High IQ thinker" is the biggest overstatement i have seen since the "Most moral army in the world" claim made by the israelis

Yes. And that's why atheism is deemed to never prosper and dissapear.

Just the fact that we need God to prosper and we know we need Him, is a proof of His existence to anyone with a sane intellect.


Translation: "Bla bla bla i'm so open minded bla bla bla give me like give me react give me validation in an incel forum"

@SecularIslamist @Fiqh @Hamdan @Michael Myers @emeraldglass @coispet @wsada @TsarTsar444 @HarrierDuBois @st.hamudi but 6‘5 @RAMU KAKA @STAMPEDE @try2beme @SubhumanCurrycel @bndar.337
TLDR but love reacted because I know you are probably spitting facts only. :feelshmm:
 
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If God existed he wouldnt make me an ethnic in a jbw world
 
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This shit is reddit tier now except with looksmaxxing lingo.
Why can't u just let each other believe your own thing and stop trying to force something upon each other if neither will fucking accept the proposition anyway?
This isn't some philosophical discussion, this is just timewaste.
 
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Dnr, but yeah, you're definitely a muzzy fed
 
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This shit is reddit tier now except with looksmaxxing lingo.
Why can't u just let each other believe your own thing and stop trying to force something upon each other if neither will fucking accept the proposition anyway?
This isn't some philosophical discussion, this is just timewaste.
 
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Ur gonna waste ur life following false beliefs. I think u should be the one considering ur life choices if you know what I mean.
Debating with low IQ religion copers may even lower your IQ, there’s a saying that “ The one argues with the fool is also a fool “
 
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This shit is reddit tier now except with looksmaxxing lingo.
Why can't u just let each other believe your own thing and stop trying to force something upon each other if neither will fucking accept the proposition anyway?
This isn't some philosophical discussion, this is just timewaste.
But bro islam is the truth bro
 
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its 2024, noone cares about religious beliefs. this isnt the 00s were being and atheist was "kewl" and "radical". nowdays, the only thing that matters is FACE
Hahahahah, love your replies man
 
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Bookmarked for later, if this is actually a good response then I congratulate you, you did what all the other religious wafflers failed to do, which was actually respond to my thread 👍
6’3 MTN football jock with strong legs fucks your stacylite oneitis in doggy and pulls her hair while incels write 40,000+ character theses back and forth to each other
 
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that guy is a goof, he literally could not reply when i asked him a simple question “where are you going after death”, he kept spamming muhh low iq sheep :lul:
is this the best question u could ask??? :lul::lul:
u are begging the question who told ur going somwhere after death ?? prove this first then we'll find out where we will go after death. what a dumbass
 
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lmgharba din rbhom fin ma mxaw ychwho bina, ax had lkalakh ya din rbk, wax 9ari f dlam?? kon mshti hadxi kaml o golti ya molhid limada la tankih omak :lul: peak retardation. hat dalil o fr3na kamlin wla khayf ?
 
is this the best question u could ask??? :lul::lul:
u are begging the question who told ur going somwhere after death ?? prove this first then we'll find out where we will go after death. what a dumbass
No its because its literally related to the foundation, Im still asking you Where the fuck are we going after death:lul: are we gonna become ashes? reply me
 
No its because its literally related to the foundation, Im still asking you Where the fuck are we going after death:lul: are we gonna become ashes? reply me
Nigga I don’t know and neither do you so stop pretending like you are onto something here
 
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imagine living your life by some book that was written thousands of years ago that was written because of a lack of scientific development :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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This is completely true. Atheists have no sense of morality nor purpose (Apart from the inherent one which only Islam addresses among the big religions, the Fitrah or Natural Inclination). Atheism (Or really polytheism because atheism isn't more than making your own desires/whatever it is why you disbelief in One God as your new God) is a rotten ideology that existed since almost the beggining of times, and NEVER prospered in any civilization that seeked to reproduce and extend their lineage because the end line would have been ALWAYS the same. DESTRUCTION OF THE HUMAN RACE because of lack of sense of purpose dedicated to a life of hedonism and after the failure of hedonism the switch to utter oblivion and hopelesness.

You know why you never heard about an atheist society? The same exact reason why you never heard about an extremely peaceful society, because if such cases of small populations even had a chance to be THEY CEASED TO EXIST completely within years in a world with extremely low age expectancy.

The only atheist society you will ever hear of is the unique case of the current western civilization, which will also cease to exist in it's current form during the next years, or otherwise dissapear.

Completely false. You are anything but unbiased and anyone with half a brain cell can see it. It's a nice bed to try and slither into it but to the semi trained eye you are not but an useless demagogue who is trying to gain empathy and likes in a involuntary celibates forum, which is pretty much some of the lowest one can get.

Is this the purpose you were speaking about before???

It's a completely empty line of argumentation trying to justify your sense of the afterlife not existing because of "Muh feelings, good and evil".

The fact that this life itself exist is one of the biggest proofs for the afterlife. This life as we know it shouldn't exist, it doesn't hold sense, however it does and ot exists against what seemed all odds and challenging all possibilities by means of almost impossible mathematical equations that could have only been designed by someone in the way even a toddler perceives the world.

Before trying to explain an afterlife, i would suggest first to try to explain this life first, something which your colleagues (Or should i say masters) have failed during the ages and whose only arguments have been "Science will reveal it one day" or "Chemicals and particles smacking eachother and coincidentally all the variables gave life even though it was nearly impossible. If you dare to challenge this then know it could have been any other way dude". Yes, any other way life didn't exist, yet here we are, in the almost impossible scenario and the miracle that life exists and we are discussing it.

The Qur'an in it's magnificency makes this argument (Interpretation of the meaning):

"He brings the living out of the dead and brings the dead out of the living and brings to life the earth after its lifelessness. And thus will you be brought out."​


God is not omnipresent but He sees and is a witness to everything that happens.

Ramblings from the basement (Or poloce station, although i hold doubts that something with your intellect or lack thereof would be even allowed in the Zimbabwe law enforcement) trying to gain more empathy and popularity, and also act as this kind of fake neutral character.

Debunked points thousands of times in this forum itself, let alone in other social media.

Since you present links i present people like Farid Responds, Sapience Institute, Muslim Skeptic, Jake the Metaphysician etc, that destroyed all this 21st century post 2001 garbage propaganda financed by the strongest powers in the world and repeated as parrots by their subjects and online prostitutes.

Another empty argument and misrepresentation which shows a clear lack of understanding of what Islam claims. Already addressed in this place several times.

In Islam we have the best system in this regard. We believe that God sent prophets to all nations, and that he didn’t judge them until He did so. Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): "We sent a messenger to every community, saying, ‘Worship God and shun false gods.’ Among them were some God guided; misguidance took hold of others. So travel through the earth and see what was the fate of those who denied the truth."
In another verse (Interpretation of the meaning): "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger."
The islamic settlement of the matter is clearly the only one that avoids your fallacies and comes from a Just God, who cares about His subjects and offers them Ultimate Justice. Ignorance? Don't worry, your Lord forgives you or judges you after giving you knowledge.

I'd go even further and say Islam is the only religion among the main ones that actually says kids who die before puberty go to paradise as muslims. Something which for some reason other religions couldn't extend their hand for (Only a Merciful God would do so) and let alone the atheist view, which already deems living children holding the same value as a bacteria in you bathroom.

Since seeing this garbage line of the post trying again to collect sympathy and act as if you hold any knowledge you have just made the Megathread of proof for God's existence now a thing in my agenda.

Stay tuned the next weeks.

This line of concrete evidence for God's existence without any kind of high level scientific investigation already exists and is heavily addressed in Islam. It's called Fitrah or Natural Inclination, and is something that applies to every human being with a sensibly open heart and mind.

The Fitrah is the concept that every human being is born with a inclination to believe in One God.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.
It is narrated that the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: “Every newborn is born in a state of fitrah. His parents make him a Jew, or a Christian, or Magian."

Ibn Taymiyyah said: "Being born on the Fitrah does not necessarily mean that one really believes in Islam at birth, because when Allaah brought us to this life (at birth) we do not know anything. Fitrah refers to having a pure heart which is ready to accept the truth, and that a person would be a Muslim if no one influenced him (while growing up) to change his natural inclination towards Islam."


This gets even deeper when one realizes that the human being, this supreme being on earth, this """animal""" that dominated completely all animals, can't even survive prorperly in a group of he is devoid of any sense of belief and purpose, contrary to millions and millions of other species who are way less intelligent than him. The human being, the only being that believes, yet we are trying to get convinced by edgy teenagers who go around claiming that the only purpose to life is to reproduce and survive, that this sense of belief is meaningless, empty, dumb, product of unguided chemicals and particles if not just a mere consequence.

To go further and prove this, there was a 2 million pound study carried by Oxford university with the purpose to investigate this specific matter, and this were the results

"A three-year international research project, directed by two academics at the University of Oxford, finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife.

The £1.9 million project involved 57 researchers who conducted over 40 separate studies in 20 countries representing a diverse range of cultures.

The studies (both analytical and empirical) conclude that humans are predisposed to believe in God and an afterlife"

Some findings of the Cognition, Religion and Theology Project:

Studies by Emily Reed Burdett and Justin Barrett, from the University of Oxford, suggest that children below the age of five find it easier to believe in some superhuman properties than to understand similar human limitations. Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a box in which she could not see. Children aged three believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers are not all-seeing and all knowing. However, children may continue to believe in all-seeing, all-knowing supernatural agents, such as a god or gods.Experiments involving adults, conducted by Jing Zhu from Tsinghua University (China), and Natalie Emmons and Jesse Bering from The Queen's University, Belfast, suggest that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural 'dualists' finding it easy to conceive of the separation of the mind and the body.



It clearly does. Thousands of civilizations who happen to be the only ones who survive a long time enough without the necessity to being extremely numerous to be noticed (Contrary to current western society) are a proof of this.

You want to sell us this devoid of purpose life yet everything i see is purposeful. In fact i challenge you to tell me one thing that is happening which holds absoletuly no purpose nor chain explanation, ONE SINGLE EVENT. But, we are supposed to believe that THE MOST IMPORTANT event, the beggining of everything, was just a mere product of randomness and chance (Two words used to recognize one's ignorance but without sounding ignorant, as both of those words don't exists by themselves to begin with. I recommend Firas Zahabi with Joe Rogan debate Scientific Truth for more depth into this)

No, it doesn't logically at all follow that God shouldn't exist. This is one of the biggest fallacies you have used until now, and you have certainly been breaking some fallacious record prior to this one.

Really what you are saying here is "Since quantum physics and mechanics don't follow the traditional 1+1=2, then God doesn’t exist", as if God wasn't described as a Being completely superior to all of this matters Who created them in the first place, and as if that somehow debunked the fact that everything that happens including the smallest of leaves that falls from the tree follows a chain of command driven with purpose, independently of whether it is driven by a subset of quantum physics elements under the set of traditional witnessable logic that we understand.

Apart from the fact that this is another heavily rushed reductive conclusion which is not true obviously (Remember people, a false premise is an incorrect proposition that forms the basis of an argument or syllogism. Since the premise {proposition, or assumption} is not correct, the conclusion drawn may be in error). But besides that, i wish you had the same mental fortitude to describe your moral compasses the same.

Everytime someone from you family died, or you go to a cemetery and see someone mourning their son, etc, please, have the mental strenght to tell them/tell yourself in the face that his mere existence was an accident, and same with yours.

However i doubt it, you didn't even had the balls to say that atheists are devoid of any moral compass which is not naturally driven (Whose only explanation is that it comes instinctively from a Creator) in a involuntary celibates thread, let alone to get out of your basement and do so face to face. This showcases again the miserable existence of the atheist, walking shamefully in the street bowing down his head, knowing he is the same as a bacteria in a bathroom, living a life that is empty and useless.

Translation: "I don't have any explanation for belief instincts, so i will hide in randomness and chance and the long history of human civilization praying (Funny enough) that there is a hole of miliseconds that explains why we have such complex belief systems, and why i rely on those instinctive belief interior systems for my morality and overall daily life"

Ladies and gentlemen, this brings us to the cruz of everything with this user. The other day he confessed that his reason for atheism was that he didn’t get his churro wet with a woman "Muh because of religion". He said and i quote from the atheist hero, this "walking learned philosopher" who "read every religious book there is", TheBuffdon860: "Religion in general is dogshit, but Islam is takes it to another level. Could have lost my virginity time and time again if it wasn’t for this cuck religion"

It always boils down to this with these people. Pure emotion, zero logic, zero mental strenght, zero anything with real value.

It's the famous paradox all over again. "I destroy a house in the last party i had (Or want to have) and my landlord comes to whom i own everything and he asks me for explanations. I have therefore two options: 1-Asking forgiveness, pay reparations, recognize my mistakes, own up, make an effort and improve myself. 2- Deny that the house is owned by the landlord by all means possible, even if it is written on every single square meter of the house (Atheism)

Theorizing without any basis about that which is heavily primitive on it's knowledge. All you have really.

Basically recognizing that you argument is completely rotten from the beggining, and that it does not prove anything at all because it has been destroyed since centuries by now.

They don't even believe in evil so who cares about what atheist philosophers believe? For them evil doesn’t exist, it's a moral construct, a lie, same as good. They themselves give no value to their words (Except to gain money of course)

What certain evils?? Do you have a scale as an atheist??? You don't believe in evil

We believers and muslims in specific do have scales of evil in which all case scenarios are contemplated and explained.

Also it's funny that you can't even realize your own contradictions within few lines. For once you say "It seems intuitively implausible for God to allow certain evils to occur" but then your entire argument relies on human intuition, which is something that as proven above leads to the existence of God and an afterlife being true as proven by the above comments and studies posted.

This is not our point of view. Again you sre misrepresenting completely our position and mixing it up with yours.

YOU are the one as an atheist who believes evim "is more lf an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone's own perception"

WE believe that evil is clearly defined by God in His scriptures and revelations, period. Same with good.

Irrelevant as first, any study that tries to so will get vastly different responses from civilization to civilization (Just look at homosexuality, which is highly shunned upon in 85% of the world while considered one of the greatest evils and accepted and celebrated the west).

All your argument will be based on made up rating scales of good and evil based on your interpretation and i can see it already.

There clearly is, but you are playing sneaky for anyone who is ignorant. You are sticking with your particular definition that all evil is instinctive somehow and that's the only way to define it. As i said, evil is already defined for us people who believe in religions, especially monotheistic ones. We don't adhere to these empty standards.

No doubt that evil is detectable instinctively, same as good (Greatly affected by the Fitrah), but it is so vastly variable if you just rely on instincts (Which are also irremediably affected by several other events like people and society) that you could pick up 5 psychos together and for them killing a hobo would not be remotely evil to begin with.

False. You wouldn't have only to do that, but also to learn the entirety of human history when you can't even know who stole your banana from the fridge, you would need to descipher all the enviroment of every single individual, all the people he hang out with, every single of his interactions and see how they affected his views, make extremely deep analysis of his thoughts with technology we don't possess (And probably we will never possess), etc

Yes, basically you want the entire blueprint of humanity, an Ultimate Book. Basically you are recognizing the necessity of an Ultimate Guide to define Good and Evil. This as religious people we already have, we muslims call it Qur'an and it explains to us what is good and evil, how we should govern ourselves, etc.

You really are critizicing us for adhering to that which you lack and wish you had. A code of life that gives purpose.

You are so funny bro look at how in laughing...

"SO So hard"

Translation: "I have no idea of what i'm doing and what to use as a starting point because as an atheist i lack any sense of morality and purpose"

Just the hopefully part completely debunks every inch or iota of certainty your argument might have remotely hold

Irrelevant. You don't believe in Good and Evil and the only way for them to exist is if there was an Ultimate Judge who defines them properly.

False. Too many fake premises as usual.

For once, you are the one who believes that all those evil acts you describe are not even evil, they are simply acts that happened and you insinctively individualistically (Supposedly, at least that's what you claim) perceive them as evil whereas the japanese and germans, two of the most "advanced" civilizations in history according to materialistic standards, and were heavily inspired by prominent atheists like Nietchzche, didn't perceive them as such but as an ultimate good.

Really the "Most people part is such an empty argument". Most people could be convinced within 6 months (Don't even doubt this) of current media propaganda that cannibalism is actually good (This study has already been done by the way by a recently famous spanish general).

Most people in Israel hate Palestinians and see them as "human animals". Most people in Nazi Germany hated the jews. This most people dynamic is a waste of time and you are basing your entire argument on it.

As religious people we don't believe that evil doesn’t gave a purpose.

In Islam, paired with the above mentioned ignorance verses, we also believe that the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: "Wondrous is the affair of the believer for there is good for him in every matter and this is not the case with anyone except the believer. If he is happy, then he thanks Allah and thus there is good for him, and if he is harmed, then he shows patience and thus there is good for him."
Islam is the only main religion which addresses the Problem of Evil directly.
Allah says in the Qur'an (Interpretation of the meaning): And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
This leads us to the blatant assumption and contradiction in the entirety of your argument. You assume that an afterlife where proper justice will apply doesn’t exist.

I could understand this line of argumentation with someone who believes in Karma or any sort of justice concept in which such is served exclusively in this life. But for someone who believes in an afterlife in which accounts will be settled based on what happens in this life??? What's even more amazing, is that your entire argument is based on "instictively" describing and rating evil, yet YOU DENY THE INSTINCTIVE NECESSITY AND BELIEF OF AN AFTERLIFE, already proven above by the famous Oxford study and by the history of humdreds of civilizations set apart which held the same belief.

The basis of your argument is this sort of pseudoinvented morality rating scale based on extremely subjective human instinct but then you scratch all human instinct and it's predisposition of belief in an afterlife once it doesn't serve your purpose of denying a Just God. It's like playing a basketball match but you do it without the basket because it doesn't serve your purpose since you know you are doomed to lose the game in any scenario.

Allah describes your kind in the best of words in His Holy Book (Interpretation of the meaning): And they denied and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement.


Ireelevant. God gives us free will and tests us on it. We are not angels who follow all the commands of God, we are given the option to be better than angels or worse than animals depending on our decisions, and have better or worse rewards than them in our afterlife.

Allah says (Interpretation of the meaning): Do people think once they say, “We believe,” that they will be left without being put to the test? Or do the evildoers ˹simply˺ think that they will escape Us? How wrong is their judgment! Whoever hopes for the meeting with Allah, ˹let them know that˺ Allah’s appointed time is sure to come. He is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. We have commanded people to honour their parents. But if they urge you to associate with Me what you have no knowledge of, then do not obey them. To Me you will ˹all˺ return, and then I will inform you of what you used to do.

Whatever it seems to you is completely irrelevant and not only that, but baseless as already proven.

Free will allows both good and bad to happen. God commands good to happen and forbids bad, makes rulings based on such and promoting the first.

Anything outside that is not free will. Funny that this comes from the people who constantly champion "Freedom and liberty" but when they are given the option they cry because it doesn't fit their purposes and desires during that specific moment

God is not made up of parts. We believe that God has hands, a face, etc, (Depending on the school of thought), but we don't believe those can be considered parts at all but only a Unique One Being.

Allah says: "He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent; and He has full knowledge of all things"

We believe that Allah is Al Ahad (The Unique), and He says (Interpretation of the meaning): There is nothing like Him, for He (alone) is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.”
And He also says (Interpretation of the meaning): Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
Ibn Taymiyyah said: "The word “body” is very general. It could refer to something that was put together, of which the parts were separate then they were put together; or something that can be divided and separated into parts; or something that consists of physical material and an image; or something that consists of single particles that are put together, but Allah, may He be exalted, is far above all that; or something that was separate then came together; or something that can be divided and separated, meaning that one part of the thing separates from another part; or it may indicate some other meaning that refers to something that is put together – which is impossible in the case of Allah."

The contingency argument is one of the golden bullets. The argument that simply can't be debunked by any current means. Will be addressed in another thread Insha Allah.

Basically you are recognizing that God exists without doing so.

All your thread is like this.

You destroyed your entire argument with one word, "seems".

Your entire argument is destroyed with the word "Agency" and the definition you give to it, which is a misrepresentation that makes it seem as if we believe God is acting with the permission of another being (Something which would lead to an impossible Infinite Regress which would lead to believe in the existence of an Ultimate Creator as the only credible argument) and also based on that God is inside and limited by time. We believe God is Eternal and is not limited by time, and we also believe that this concept cannot be completely conceived by beings who are stucked inside time like us, but only thought and reflected upon. This is proof of the superiority of God in regards to humankind and to creation if anything, not the contrary.

God is not limited by time and doesn’t have to make a decision to exist. You are limited by time and you are making God a human being who is also limited by time to fit your argument. One of the contentions against Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) being God by the way

No, He is not inside time. He doesn't have to "push a button" or "decide" to cease existing because those concepts are outside of Him, He is not subject to them like we are.

Yes, His non existence is impossible, therefore His existence is Neceessary

Impossible: not possible; unable to be, exist, happen, etc. unable to be done, performed, effected, etc.
Necessary: determined, existing, or happening by natural laws or predestination; inevitable.
It doesn't have any mechanism to cease existing because He is outside time. This is really the "God can't lift a rock stronger than him that He created" argument

This argument is not valid at all because the power of Allaah is not connected to irrationalities and contradictions. God won't do anything that goes against His attributes.

Calling yourself an "High IQ thinker" is the biggest overstatement i have seen since the "Most moral army in the world" claim made by the israelis

Yes. And that's why atheism is deemed to never prosper and dissapear.

Just the fact that we need God to prosper and we know we need Him, is a proof of His existence to anyone with a sane intellect.


Translation: "Bla bla bla i'm so open minded bla bla bla give me like give me react give me validation in an incel forum"

@SecularIslamist @Fiqh @Hamdan @Michael Myers @emeraldglass @coispet @wsada @TsarTsar444 @HarrierDuBois @st.hamudi but 6‘5 @RAMU KAKA @STAMPEDE @try2beme @SubhumanCurrycel @bndar.337
 
Nigga I don’t know and neither do you so stop pretending like you are onto something here
i have a clear objective and i know where im heading, we are not the same
 
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i have a clear objective and i know where im heading, we are not the same
You don’t know where you are heading, you THINK you know where you are heading, there is a difference. And it’s objectively wrong because I studied Islam and it’s wrong. Not that u will ever admit that bcuz u don’t care about the truth but still
 
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Reactions: ggg.tv🤫, Lynxress, gothmog6 and 2 others
are u actua
No its because its literally related to the foundation, Im still asking you Where the fuck are we going after death:lul: are we gonna become ashes? reply me
are u actually this dumb?? i told u ur begging the question, who told u there's something after death? prove that there's smtg after death then i'll answer u what is after. godamn is it this hard to understand
 
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Reactions: Lynxress and thebuffdon690

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