Xevvyi
Iron
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2025
- Posts
- 168
- Reputation
- 71
THE ACTUAL DIETMAXXING THREAD (everything is sourced)
gonna preface this by saying I know there's already threads on T optimization, sleep, whatever. but none of them connect everything together. diet, hormones, bone, skin, eyes, sleep are one system. changing one thing changes everything else. this thread treats it that way.
also gonna answer the genetics vs environment question upfront because it never gets answered properly on here.
genetics cope vs genetics reality
both sides get this wrong.
"it's all genetics bro" is lazy. twin studies on facial morphology put heritability of specific features at 40-80%, which means 20-60% of facial variance between identical twins comes from environment, nutrition, hormones, and function. [PMC5008732] that is not nothing. that's potentially the difference between your current face and a meaningfully better one.
"diet fixes everything" is also wrong. you can't give yourself cheekbones you were never going to have.
better framing: genes write the blueprint, environment determines how well it gets built. most people are nowhere near their genetic ceiling because they eat garbage, sleep garbage, and are chronically stressed.
the epigenetics side of this is legitimately underrated. a 2024 Nature Communications study showed maternal dietary protein levels alter offspring facial bone morphology through mTOR signaling. [DOI:10.1038/s41467-024-46030-3] the face remodels in response to inputs, this isn't speculation.
the other thing nobody brings up: heritability of facial attractiveness ratings is actually low. a Current Biology twin study found individual preferences for faces are shaped mostly by personal environment, not genetics. [PMC4629915] the face that reads as a 10 to one person reads as a 7 to another and they're not sharing that preference with their identical twin. the genetic lottery framing is overstated even in terms of outcome.
the diet
not going to list every food. going to explain why the right foods matter and let you build from there.
macro logic
protein at 1.6-2.2g per kg minimum if you're actually building tissue. leucine threshold to meaningfully trigger muscle protein synthesis is ~3g per meal, which means spreading small amounts of protein all day may be less effective than fewer larger meals. animal protein wins on bioavailability. not debatable.
fat should be high. cholesterol is the direct precursor to all steroid hormones including testosterone. low fat diets reliably lower T. a recent systematic review found ketogenic diets may enhance testosterone synthesis through increased cholesterol substrate while reducing inflammatory cytokines (TNF-a, IL-6) that suppress HPG axis function. this is why the "low fat for heart health" advice from the 80s has aged so badly.
carbs are anabolic, insulin is anabolic. chronic low carb crushes IGF-1. white rice, fruit, and honey are the cleanest options, they don't come with antinutrients or gut irritants. the problem was never carbs, it was combining them with seed oils and calling it food.
what you should actually be eating
beef and organs
liver is the most nutrient dense food that exists. B12 (3000%+ RDA per 100g), retinol (actual vitamin A, not beta-carotene), copper, CoQ10, folate, zinc, iron. eat it 1-2x a week. don't overdo it because vitamin A toxicity is real at high frequency. don't skip organ meats because they're weird, that's cope.
eggs (whole, pasture-raised)
the yolk is the food. it contains cholesterol, choline, lutein, zeaxanthin, vitamin D, selenium, and biotin. throwing out the yolk because of saturated fat is one of the worst things mainstream nutrition pushed on people. the whites without the yolk are almost pointless in comparison. also, raw egg whites in excess block biotin absorption. cook them or eat them together with the yolk.
fatty fish (wild salmon, sardines, mackerel)
EPA and DHA, non-negotiable. the modern omega-6 to omega-3 ratio from seed oil consumption sits around 15-20:1 and optimal is closer to 4:1. this distortion drives systemic inflammation, impairs hormonal signaling, and degrades skin and eye tissue over time. sardines are also one of the best simultaneous sources of calcium and vitamin D. eat fatty fish 3+ times a week or supplement with 2-4g EPA+DHA daily.
raw/fermented dairy
pasteurization reduces bioavailability and destroys enzymes. raw milk contains IGF-1, TGF-b, lactoferrin, IgG, and fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, K2) in their full matrix. K2 in grass-fed dairy specifically (MK4 form) activates osteocalcin, the protein that binds calcium to bone, and activates matrix Gla protein which prevents calcium depositing in arteries and soft tissue. if you're taking D3 without K2 you're directing calcium into the wrong places. if you can't get raw, full-fat unhomogenized is next best. kefir is more accessible than raw milk in most places and has legitimate probiotic density.
oysters
highest zinc food in existence. one serving covers your weekly RDA. zinc is a direct cofactor in Leydig cell function (this is where testosterone gets made), inhibits aromatase, and is rate-limiting for sperm production. the zinc-testosterone link is not forum mythology.
in a study of healthy young men put on a low-zinc diet for 20 weeks, serum testosterone dropped from ~39.9 nmol/L to ~10.6 nmol/L. near-complete hormone collapse from a single mineral deficit. in marginally zinc-deficient older men, supplementation nearly doubled testosterone levels. [PMID: 8875519] if you eat oysters regularly you probably don't need to supplement zinc. if you don't, you might.
colostrum
this gets oversold so I'll be specific. bovine colostrum contains IGF-1 at 200-2000 ug/L versus less than 10 ug/L in regular milk, along with TGF-b1/2, IgG, IgA, lactoferrin, and growth factors. [ScienceDirect S0958694602000894]
the debate is whether oral consumption actually raises serum IGF-1. most RCTs at standard doses (20g/day at rest) show no effect on resting IGF-1. [PMID: 31123862] the exception is training-specific: a Mero et al. 1997 study found significant serum IGF-1 increases in athletes supplementing during active training periods. [PMID: 9338422] the gut-healing and immune effects are better established than the IGF-1 claim. take it peri-workout if you use it. don't expect it to do much if you're sedentary.
bone broth (properly made, long-simmered)
collagen type 1 and 3, glycine, proline, hydroxyproline, glucosamine, chondroitin. glycine specifically is underrated. it's involved in collagen synthesis, creatine synthesis, liver detox, and has been shown in RCTs to improve slow-wave sleep and next-day cognitive performance at 3g pre-bed. if you're already taking it for sleep it's doing multiple things at once.
brazil nuts (2-3 per day, seriously not more)
one nut is around 70-90 ug of selenium, approaching the daily RDA in a single nut. selenium is required for thyroid function, glutathione peroxidase (your primary endogenous antioxidant enzyme), and male reproductive health. more is not better here, selenium toxicity is real. 2-3 nuts is genuinely the optimal intake, it's not an arbitrary number.
raw honey
not the same as table sugar. contains enzymes, polyphenols, antimicrobial compounds, trace minerals, and has prebiotic effects. fructose in whole honey and fruit behaves differently metabolically than extracted fructose because it comes with minerals and enzymatic cofactors that change the absorption rate. use it as your sweetener instead of anything processed.
what to stop eating
seed oils
canola, sunflower, soybean, corn oil. PUFAs that oxidize at cooking temperatures into lipid peroxides and aldehydes. they displace saturated fats from cell membranes and make them susceptible to oxidative damage. they inflate the omega-6
mega-3 ratio. they are in almost every processed food, restaurant fryer, and packaged product.cook with butter, ghee, tallow, lard, or coconut oil. use extra virgin olive oil cold only.
processed food
seed oils plus refined sugar plus additives. the worst possible combination. doesn't need more explanation than that.
tap water
chlorine, fluoride (endocrine disruptor at sufficient doses), pharmaceutical runoff depending on your area, heavy metals, microplastics. filter it. reverse osmosis is the most thorough option. re-mineralize with trace mineral drops if you go that route because RO strips everything including the good stuff.
soy isolate as a primary protein
phytoestrogens. dose-dependent effect in men, but using soy protein isolate as your main protein source while trying to optimize androgens is counterproductive. occasional edamame is irrelevant. daily soy milk or soy isolate shakes are not.
testosterone
the three micronutrients
zinc -- cofactor for testosterone synthesis, inhibits aromatase. serum zinc is positively correlated with total testosterone across multiple systematic reviews. sources: oysters, beef, pumpkin seeds.
magnesium -- works on free testosterone specifically by reducing SHBG binding. both exercising and sedentary men with adequate magnesium show higher free T than deficient men. a ZMA trial in athletes saw testosterone rise from 132 to 176 pg/mL versus a decline in the placebo group. [PMC3958794] sources: leafy greens, avocados, nuts, dark chocolate.
vitamin D3 -- technically a prohormone. VDRs (vitamin D receptors) are present in Leydig cells. a double-blind RCT of 54 males at 3332 IU/day for 12 months found significant increases in both total and free T. [Horm Metab Res 2011] the effect is strongest in men who are actually deficient. megadosing when you're already replete is less consistent. get your levels tested, aim for 40-60 ng/mL serum 25(OH)D.
what's actually suppressing your T right now
chronic sleep deprivation is covered below but one week at 5 hours reduces T by 10-15%, equivalent to 10-15 years of biological aging. [JAMA 2011, PMID 21632481]
body fat: adipose tissue expresses aromatase. the fatter you are, the more testosterone converts to estrogen. getting lean is one of the highest-leverage T optimization moves available to you.
chronic cortisol: cortisol and testosterone are mechanistically antagonistic. when the HPA axis is chronically activated, GnRH pulsatility gets suppressed, which means less LH, which means less T. stress is a literal androgen blocker.
alcohol causes direct Leydig cell toxicity and elevates cortisol. even moderate regular consumption suppresses T.
BPA and phthalates are in plastic containers, many skincare and fragrance products, and food packaging. don't heat food in plastic. check your cosmetics. the endocrine disruption mechanisms here are well characterized, not speculation.
DHT
3-10x more androgenic than testosterone. produced from T via 5-alpha-reductase. responsible for jaw bone density, secondary sex characteristics, libido, and body hair pattern.
important: saw palmetto inhibits 5-alpha-reductase. do not use it. it's sold as a prostate supplement and plenty of guys are taking it without knowing it's actively blocking DHT conversion. if someone recommends it to you for hair, the tradeoff is worse than they're telling you.
bone
peak bone mass is achieved by your mid-20s. after that it's maintenance and remodeling, not building from scratch. every year in a development window with nutritional deficits compounds in the wrong direction.
what builds bone:
calcium absorption is the real issue, not just intake. without D3 you absorb 10-15% of dietary calcium. with adequate D3 that jumps to 30-40%. without K2 the calcium you do absorb goes to soft tissue and arteries rather than bone.
vitamin K2 (MK4) activates osteocalcin which binds calcium to bone matrix, and activates matrix Gla protein which prevents arterial calcification. found in grass-fed butter, raw/aged cheese, organ meats.
collagen type 1 is 90% of bone's organic matrix. bone is not just mineral. bone broth and gelatin provide the precursors. vitamin C is the required cofactor for collagen hydroxylation, without it the collagen structure is defective regardless of how much you consume.
mechanical loading is Wolff's Law. bone remodels in response to mechanical stress. squats, deadlifts, overhead press create enough axial loading to stimulate osteoblast activity. walking does not.
chewing hard and tough foods creates mechanical stress on the mandibular condyle and promotes endochondral ossification, which contributes to jaw forward growth and bone density over time. populations with traditional diets requiring heavy mastication show measurably more pronounced jaw development. this is anthropological literature, not just forum theory.
what destroys bone:
chronic cortisol suppresses osteoblasts and activates osteoclasts. D3 deficiency, severe calorie restriction, alcohol, sedentary lifestyle, and high sodium with low potassium all leach calcium from bone.
sleep
everything else in this thread is secondary to this section.
testosterone production is directly sleep-dependent. most of the day's testosterone is released during sleep, particularly in the early hours tied to GH pulsatility. GH itself is secreted in large pulses specifically during slow-wave sleep. tissue repair, protein synthesis, collagen remodeling, memory consolidation -- all of it requires sleep architecture, not just hours in bed.
Van Cauter et al. (JAMA 2011): 10 young healthy men, average age 24, restricted to 5 hours sleep for 8 nights. daytime testosterone dropped 10-15%. researchers noted this mimics the drop seen in men 10-15 years older. [PMID: 21632481] a meta-analysis across 18 studies confirmed total sleep deprivation reduces testosterone (SMD = -0.64). [ScienceDirect S138994572100544X]
what to actually do:
8-9 hours in bed minimum. 7 is a floor not a target. consistent wake time matters more than consistent bedtime because your circadian rhythm anchors to the morning light signal. irregular schedules fragment GH pulsatility.
room temperature 17-19C (62-67F). core body temp must drop 1-2 degrees to enter deep sleep. a warm room is one of the most common causes of shallow sleep that nobody talks about.
no screens 60-90 minutes before bed. 480nm blue light directly inhibits melatonin via ipRGC photoreceptors in the eye. blue-light blocking glasses work if you can't avoid screens. blackout curtains or a sleep mask, even ambient light through eyelids suppresses melatonin.
no food 3-4 hours before bed. late meals elevate core temp and insulin, both of which disrupt sleep architecture.
3g glycine 30-60 min before bed. RCT-supported reduction in sleep latency and improvement in slow-wave sleep. found in gelatin or cheap as a standalone powder.
magnesium glycinate 300-400mg before bed. supports GABA activity, mild anxiolytic effect, reduces sleep latency.
morning sunlight within 30-60 minutes of waking. this sets your circadian cortisol awakening response at the correct time so cortisol peaks in the morning, not at night when you're trying to sleep.
cortisol
cortisol is the antagonist of every single goal in this thread. it suppresses testosterone via HPG axis inhibition, breaks down muscle tissue, drives visceral fat storage, suppresses bone formation, accelerates collagen degradation, disrupts sleep, and impairs focus. it is also one of the most common reasons people make zero progress despite doing everything else right.
what raises it: chronic stress of any kind, overtraining without recovery, sleep deprivation (which then creates a feedback loop back to T suppression), excessive caffeine, skipping meals, inflammatory diet, and endocrine disruptors.
what lowers it: sleep is the single biggest lever. adequate calories matter too because chronic restriction activates the stress response. magnesium, omega-3 (directly reduces cortisol response to mental stress), ashwagandha KSM-66 at 300-600mg/day has multiple RCTs showing meaningful cortisol reduction and corresponding T increases. [Evid Based Complement Alternat Med 2013] morning sunlight, breath work with slow extended exhales (activates vagus nerve and parasympathetic nervous system).
not training to failure every single session also matters. stimulus yes, chronic inflammation no.
skin, hair, eyes
these are outputs. if the inputs in the sections above are wrong, no topical product fixes it.
skin
collagen synthesis requires glycine and proline (bone broth/gelatin), vitamin C as a hydroxylation cofactor, zinc for cross-linking, and enough total calories and protein to not be in a catabolic state.
glycation is worth knowing about. sugar plus protein forms advanced glycation end products (AGEs). AGEs damage collagen cross-links and make skin progressively worse. excess sugar, especially fructose in isolation, accelerates this. this is a dietary aging mechanism independent of UV exposure.
seed oils increase oxidative damage to skin tissue systemically. the omega-3:6 ratio in your actual cell membranes is a direct function of what you eat.
for sun: morning light on skin is net positive for vitamin D synthesis and circadian signaling. dietary astaxanthin (from salmon and seafood), vitamin E from whole foods, and polyphenols provide internal photoprotection against UVA. zinc oxide is the one sunscreen without endocrine disruption concerns if you actually need it.
hair
pattern baldness is overwhelmingly genetic in timing and degree. but nutritional deficits accelerate it and cause non-genetic shedding on top.
ferritin below ~70 ng/mL causes hair shedding independent of anemia. fix with red meat and organ meats. zinc deficiency impairs hair follicle cycling. chronic low protein means hair sheds because your body is prioritizing other tissue over it. biotin is in egg yolks. don't eat raw whites in large quantity without the yolks, avidin in raw whites blocks biotin absorption.
rosemary oil topically has RCT evidence comparable to minoxidil for hair growth without the systemic hormonal side effects. worth considering.
eyes
lutein and zeaxanthin accumulate specifically in the macula and filter high-energy blue light, protecting photoreceptors over time. most bioavailable source is egg yolks. also in dark leafy greens but requires fat co-ingestion for absorption from plants.
DHA is a structural component of the retinal membrane and deficiency directly links to visual decline. fatty fish and eggs are your sources.
vitamin A (retinol, not beta-carotene) is required for rhodopsin synthesis and corneal maintenance. beta-carotene from plants converts to retinol at widely variable rates and many people convert poorly. liver and eggs give you pre-formed retinol reliably.
outdoor time is protective against myopia progression beyond just the circadian benefits. natural light exposure in adolescence is well-established as protective and the mechanism likely extends into early adulthood.
protocol summary
morning: sunlight within first 30-60 min. water and electrolytes. cold exposure optional but beneficial for cortisol adaptation over time.
meal 1: 3-4 whole eggs in butter. liver 1-2x a week. kefir or raw dairy. fruit or berries. bone broth if you have it.
training: compound movements 3-5x a week. progressive overload. not every session to failure.
post-training: high protein and carbs. colostrum here if you use it, this is the best window by available evidence.
throughout the day: fatty fish at least once. leafy greens with fat for fat-soluble vitamin absorption. 2-3 brazil nuts. oysters as often as you can get them. enough total calories, chronic restriction suppresses androgens directly.
pre-bed: screen curfew or blue-light glasses. glycine 3g. magnesium glycinate 300-400mg. cool dark room.
supplements worth using: D3 (2000-5000 IU depending on latitude, skin tone, sun exposure) with K2 MK4 (100-200 ug). zinc (8-15mg, don't over-supplement because it competes with copper). magnesium glycinate 300-400mg. omega-3 (2-4g EPA+DHA from fish oil if you're not eating fatty fish consistently). ashwagandha KSM-66 300-600mg cycled.
sources
- Prasad AS et al. zinc and testosterone in young men on restricted zinc diet. Nutrition 1996. PMID: 8875519
- Van Cauter/Leproult. sleep restriction and testosterone in healthy young men. JAMA 2011. PMID: 21632481
- meta-analysis sleep deprivation and testosterone. ScienceDirect S138994572100544X
- Pilz S et al. D3 supplementation and testosterone in men. Horm Metab Res 2011.
- Maggio et al. magnesium and free testosterone, ZMA trial. PMC3958794
- Mero et al. colostrum supplementation and serum IGF-1 in athletes. J Appl Physiol 1997. PMID: 9338422
- March et al. oral colostrum does not increase resting IGF-1. PMID: 31123862
- Chandrasekhar et al. ashwagandha KSM-66 and cortisol. Evid Based Complement Alternat Med 2012. PMID: 23439798
- PMC5008732 -- genetic and environmental contributions to facial morphology
- PMC4629915 -- attractiveness preferences shaped by environment not genetics (Current Biology)
- Nature Communications 2024 -- maternal protein intake, mTOR, craniofacial morphology. DOI: 10.1038/s41467-024-46030-3
- PMC3955336 -- sleep-testosterone relationship in men
