Do you think skilled immigrants that come on H1B and other VISAs steal jobs?

[Jason Voorhees]

I am obviously biased but will still give my perspective. No I dont think i am stealing anyone’s job. My role wasn’t replacing anybody it was sitting empty till I showed up. My boss was desperate and there was vacancy for my role for like 7 months. Same goes for my friends in cybersecurity, AI, networking, it’s not just my story there’s solid data behind this. According to the 2023 Stack Overflow Developer Survey, around 85% of hiring managers said they're struggling to fill DevOps and infra automation roles. In tech there are many mission critical high specialized roles that require lot of niche expertise that is not easily found locally so they often go global.


Now, coming to the immigrants undercutting wages point. I dont think that apply to high-skill tech jobs. My visa comes with strict rules. I have to be paid the prevailing wage. This is a requirement means I have to be paid the same as my American teammates. Even USCIS data shows 66% of H-1Bs went to tech jobs last year averaging around $120K.

Companies aren't hiring people like me to save a few bucks they hire us because if something critical infrastructure fail it is finished. Remember the 2021 AWS outage. That thing cost $150 million an hour for companies. Multiple companies lost hundreds of millions of dollars. Billions of dollars lost overnight. I've done 3 a.m. Docker debugging calls, pulled all nighters.

The "immigrants stealing jobs and companies paying peanuts" thing does apply in blue-collar from what I have seen also undocumented work but in tech but I dont think I am replacing anyone. I am just filling critical gap.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

@Chadeep @widdi @deadstock @FaceandBBC @BeanCelll @134applesauce456 @Duke Archer

 

[BeanCelll]

The "immigrants stealing jobs and companies paying peanuts" thing does apply in blue-collar from what I have seen also undocumented work but in tech but I dont think I am replacing anyone.

I was gonna actually reply but this is basically all I was gonna say anyways.

 

[aladdinmaxxer]

I am obviously biased but will still give my perspective. No I dont think i am stealing anyone’s job. My role wasn’t replacing anybody it was sitting empty till I showed up. My boss was desperate and there was vacancy for my role for like 7 months. Same goes for my friends in cybersecurity, AI, networking, it’s not just my story there’s solid data behind this. According to the 2023 Stack Overflow Developer Survey, around 85% of hiring managers said they're struggling to fill DevOps and infra automation roles. In tech there are many mission critical high specialized roles that require lot of niche expertise that is not easily found locally so they often go global.


Now, coming to the immigrants undercutting wages point. I dont think that doesn't apply to high-skill tech jobs. My visa comes with strict rules. I have to be paid the prevailing wage. This is a requirement means I have to be paid the same as my American teammates. Even USCIS data shows 66% of H-1Bs went to tech jobs last year averaging around $120K.

Companies aren't hiring people like me to save a few bucks they hire us because if something critical infrastructure fail it is finished. Remember the 2021 AWS outage. That thing cost $150 million an hour for companies. Multiple companies lost hundreds of millions of dollars. Billions of dollars lost overnight. I've done 3 a.m. Docker debugging calls, pulled all nighters.

The "immigrants stealing jobs and companies paying peanuts" thing does apply in blue-collar from what I have seen also undocumented work but in tech but I dont think I am replacing anyone. I am just filling critical gap.

they have worked harder to come out of their shithole than those jobless coomers who r protesting "immigrants are stealing jobs"

 

[Jason Voorhees]

@Vantablack why?

 

[BeanCelll]

I was gonna actually reply but this is basically all I was gonna say anyways.

also the "just educate our own people" narrative is cope as fuck they would have cared enough to educate themselves on the topic if they really wanted and felt that they could do the job that bad, they're likely just not smart and motivated enough.

But once again this applies strictly to industries that require some actual fucking skills and not wage-slaving away at mcdonalds

 

[Vantablack]

@Vantablack why?

most curries on h1b visas are codemonkeys that get paid like shit and dont contribute anything.

 

[Vantablack]

most curries on h1b visas are codemonkeys that get paid like shit and dont contribute anything.

plus most curries smell like shit and stink up my gym

 

[BeanCelll]

also the "just educate our own people" narrative is cope as fuck they would have cared enough to educate themselves on the topic if they really wanted and felt that they could do the job that bad, they're likely just not smart and motivated enough.

But once again this applies strictly to industries that require some actual fucking skills and not wage-slaving away at mcdonalds

jfl just read that the title specified "skilled" immigrants; in which case obviously not, if anything they're competing with other skilled immigrants hardly any natives at all. 2nd and 3rd world countries know what it's like in shitholes and that's why the meaningful citizens do anything they can to get by. Hard to replicate with spoonfed natives, you can't teach innate hunger.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

most curries on h1b visas are codemonkeys that get paid like shit and dont contribute anything.

That jn not true tho. Look at the stats. Over 66% on h1b get paid over $120k and over 95% get $90k+

 

[Jason Voorhees]

jfl just read that the title specified "skilled" immigrants; in which case obviously not, if anything they're competing with other skilled immigrants hardly any natives at all. 2nd and 3rd world countries know what it's like in shitholes and that's why the meaningful citizens do anything they can to get by. Hard to replicate with spoonfed natives, you can't teach innate hunger.

Correct. As a skilled immigrabt yoru competition is always other skilled immigrants not natives. My company been trying to hire locally for months but just couldn't find anyone with the right combo of skillsstuff like Jenkins,
Kubernetes, Terraform, and solid network knowledge. This isn't some weekend bootcamp stuff you can learn in a few weeks you need serious hands-on experience to do this right.

 

[Duke Archer]

H1b haplogroup

Anyway I got tech job easily from my degree

And so did most of my friends

I’m not gonna blame it on immigrants

Usually they compete for basic jobs that state school kids wanted

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Elab @Gamerspyy786, @Slayfer

 

[Jason Voorhees]

H1b haplogroup

Anyway I got tech job easily from my degree

And so did most of my friends

I’m not gonna blame it on immigrants

Usually they compete for basic jobs that state school kids wanted

Vote

 

[Slayfer]

I am obviously biased but will still give my perspective. No I dont think i am stealing anyone’s job. My role wasn’t replacing anybody it was sitting empty till I showed up. My boss was desperate and there was vacancy for my role for like 7 months. Same goes for my friends in cybersecurity, AI, networking, it’s not just my story there’s solid data behind this. According to the 2023 Stack Overflow Developer Survey, around 85% of hiring managers said they're struggling to fill DevOps and infra automation roles. In tech there are many mission critical high specialized roles that require lot of niche expertise that is not easily found locally so they often go global.


Now, coming to the immigrants undercutting wages point. I dont think that doesn't apply to high-skill tech jobs. My visa comes with strict rules. I have to be paid the prevailing wage. This is a requirement means I have to be paid the same as my American teammates. Even USCIS data shows 66% of H-1Bs went to tech jobs last year averaging around $120K.

Companies aren't hiring people like me to save a few bucks they hire us because if something critical infrastructure fail it is finished. Remember the 2021 AWS outage. That thing cost $150 million an hour for companies. Multiple companies lost hundreds of millions of dollars. Billions of dollars lost overnight. I've done 3 a.m. Docker debugging calls, pulled all nighters.

The "immigrants stealing jobs and companies paying peanuts" thing does apply in blue-collar from what I have seen also undocumented work but in tech but I dont think I am replacing anyone. I am just filling critical gap.

I didn't read any of this, you work in an IT field I believe. No magical doctor - lawyer - computer scientist immigrant will magically swoop in and take your job. I just voted because I live a couple hours from the border

 

[Slayfer]

I didn't read any of this, you work in an IT field I believe. No magical doctor - lawyer - computer scientist immigrant will magically swoop in and take your job. I just voted because I live a couple hours from the border

Just read it, nobody will have bad blood about you going into a skilled carrier. Most complaints about immigrants are from dummies who hate them taking every entry/labor job

 

[Jason Voorhees]

@isis_Bleach @Gengar

 

[isis_Bleach]

I am obviously biased but will still give my perspective. No I dont think i am stealing anyone’s job. My role wasn’t replacing anybody it was sitting empty till I showed up. My boss was desperate and there was vacancy for my role for like 7 months. Same goes for my friends in cybersecurity, AI, networking, it’s not just my story there’s solid data behind this. According to the 2023 Stack Overflow Developer Survey, around 85% of hiring managers said they're struggling to fill DevOps and infra automation roles. In tech there are many mission critical high specialized roles that require lot of niche expertise that is not easily found locally so they often go global.


Now, coming to the immigrants undercutting wages point. I dont think that doesn't apply to high-skill tech jobs. My visa comes with strict rules. I have to be paid the prevailing wage. This is a requirement means I have to be paid the same as my American teammates. Even USCIS data shows 66% of H-1Bs went to tech jobs last year averaging around $120K.

Companies aren't hiring people like me to save a few bucks they hire us because if something critical infrastructure fail it is finished. Remember the 2021 AWS outage. That thing cost $150 million an hour for companies. Multiple companies lost hundreds of millions of dollars. Billions of dollars lost overnight. I've done 3 a.m. Docker debugging calls, pulled all nighters.

The "immigrants stealing jobs and companies paying peanuts" thing does apply in blue-collar from what I have seen also undocumented work but in tech but I dont think I am replacing anyone. I am just filling critical gap.

its not normal to import people because your own country cant support itself. thats not a healthy state of affairs.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

@psychomandible @Meteor21

 

[Jason Voorhees]

@p0lishsubhuman

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Self sustainable economy sounds good in theory but doesnt work. Take Taiwan for example absolute shithole but focused its efforts of microchip and outsourced everything now extremely developed. Sometimes you have no choice but hire people from outside for growth

its not normal to import people because your own country cant support itself. thats not a healthy state of affairs.

 

[Gamerspyy786]

Elab @Gamerspyy786, @Slayfer

In Canada, most teenagers cannot find jobs anywhere, minimum wage jobs because the Indians on temporary visas are taking them all. I assume it’s the same in the states just not Indians, but most people there temporarily as they pay them less than they deserve which is why they get the job.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Self sustainable economy sounds good in theory but doesnt work. Take Taiwan for example absolute shithole but focused its efforts of microchip and outsourced everything now extremely developed. Sometimes you have no choice but hire people from outside for growth

@BeanCelll

 

[BeanCelll]

@BeanCelll

Exactly, now image how difficult it would be to pull off a fucking 1st world ethnostate with tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of citizens

 

[Jason Voorhees]

In Canada, most teenagers cannot find jobs anywhere, minimum wage jobs because the Indians on temporary visas are taking them all. I assume it’s the same in the states just not Indians, but most people there temporarily as they pay them less than they deserve which is why they get the job.

I literally addressed this in the second paragraph. Im not talking about minimum wage. Im talking highly skilled work. They literally cannot be underpaid because of the prevailing wages

 

[Gamerspyy786]

I literally addressed this in the second paragraph. Im not talking about minimum wage. Im talking highly skilled work. They literally cannot be underpaid because of the prevailing wages

Oh then probably not

Since most here on temp visas don’t achieve that much high levels of education

They just come here to fuck around and leave

 

[Chadeep]

In Canada, most teenagers cannot find jobs anywhere, minimum wage jobs because the Indians on temporary visas are taking them all. I assume it’s the same in the states just not Indians, but most people there temporarily as they pay them less than they deserve which is why they get the job.

Nobody is taking your job if it requires specific skills. I agree for mcdonalds burger flipping or walmart cashier. But Engineers , Doctors aren't taking your jobs.

 

[psychomandible]

@psychomandible @Meteor21

Of course there is nuance, some are brought due to nepotism and others beacuse they are superior

 

[Jason Voorhees]

@SecularIslamist

 

[Foreverbrad]

H1B probably doesn’t due the restrictions in place, in the short term. In the long term I see the effect of that most likely being that wages will stagnate at their current absolute “prevailing rate” while the currency continues to devalue leading to real terms wage suppression.

The outsourcing directly to India for remote work certainly does kill jobs, my job will be GONE in the next downturn I guarantee it, one of my main KPI is to “utilise our international resources to improve efficiency “ or some shit like that.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

@CD34

 

[Jason Voorhees]

@ReadBooksEveryday

 

[CD34]

I am obviously biased but will still give my perspective. No I dont think i am stealing anyone’s job. My role wasn’t replacing anybody it was sitting empty till I showed up. My boss was desperate and there was vacancy for my role for like 7 months. Same goes for my friends in cybersecurity, AI, networking, it’s not just my story there’s solid data behind this. According to the 2023 Stack Overflow Developer Survey, around 85% of hiring managers said they're struggling to fill DevOps and infra automation roles. In tech there are many mission critical high specialized roles that require lot of niche expertise that is not easily found locally so they often go global.


Now, coming to the immigrants undercutting wages point. I dont think that apply to high-skill tech jobs. My visa comes with strict rules. I have to be paid the prevailing wage. This is a requirement means I have to be paid the same as my American teammates. Even USCIS data shows 66% of H-1Bs went to tech jobs last year averaging around $120K.

Companies aren't hiring people like me to save a few bucks they hire us because if something critical infrastructure fail it is finished. Remember the 2021 AWS outage. That thing cost $150 million an hour for companies. Multiple companies lost hundreds of millions of dollars. Billions of dollars lost overnight. I've done 3 a.m. Docker debugging calls, pulled all nighters.

The "immigrants stealing jobs and companies paying peanuts" thing does apply in blue-collar from what I have seen also undocumented work but in tech but I dont think I am replacing anyone. I am just filling critical gap.

Nah, especially in the West, people don't want to do shit. You don't steal anyone's job. It's the lower-middle classes who suffer, like workers, because they get paid less. A black man picks tomatoes for €2 an hour, while an Italian would want at least €8. They work more, ask for less, and therefore only hire them. It doesn't apply to STEM high-IQ labor camps where there's a lot of demand. Maybe just IT because it’s almost saturated

 

[ReadBooksEveryday]

I am pro immigration but it is undeniable
That majority of H1B visas are from Indian consultancy companies who like to hire curries because they are willing to work far more for a lot less pay

Meanwhile a Us citizen would take a stand and demand to be paid a fair corresponding wage to the skill. The curry will agree to be paid Pennies to the dollar .

That’s how these soulless profit maximizing companies love to hire them. But ultimately it is not benefitting the common dude.

 

[SecularIslamist]

Yea they do but I think that's a good thing. Native gen Z westerners are too pampered to work. Some of them would rather be unemployed than work.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

I am pro immigration but it is undeniable
That majority of H1B visas are from Indian consultancy companies who like to hire curries because they are willing to work far more for a lot less pay

Meanwhile a Us citizen would take a stand and demand to be paid a fair corresponding wage to the skill. The curry will agree to be paid Pennies to the dollar .

That’s how these soulless profit maximizing companies love to hire them. But ultimately it is not benefitting the common dude.

This doesn’t apply to H1B because of prevailing wage requirements. They have to pay the immigrant the same wages as they would an American. Employers submit a Labor Condition Application (LCA) where they attest to this wage requirement under penalty of perjury. If this violated it means legal trouble for thr company. There is reason why the average of H1B wages are so high.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Yea they do but I think that's a good thing. Native gen Z westerners are too pampered to work. Some of them would rather be unemployed than work.

Elab on whose job I am taking? I already explained I am not undercutting anyone or being underpaid. Why bother go with the legal process if they can hire someone locally when they have to pay the same wages anyway.

 

[ReadBooksEveryday]

This doesn’t apply to H1B because of prevailing wage requirements. They have to pay the immigrant the same wages as they would an American. Employers submit a Labor Condition Application (LCA) where they attest to this wage requirement under penalty of perjury. If this violated it means legal trouble for thr company. There is reason why the average of H1B wages are so high.

They apply for the H1B with 4-5 subsidiaries amplying your chance of getting selected to near 100%

Then that company contracts you to work in other companies as needed, and takes around 20%-30% commission for this (basically for getting you a job in the US). It is basically corporate slavery for the curry for the mere shot of working in the US. Yes the pay is high but if you take the commission out , the worker itself is not getting paid even close-

This isn’t the case with Amazon , or Google. But it is notoriously the case with Tata, Microsoft and others. And if you look at the total number of applications - vs the actual amount of people applying - you will see this to be the case. And of course it’s Indians who are the overwhelming majority and culprits that abuse this system. (That you can apply for H1B under multiple companies )

 

[SecularIslamist]

Elab on whose job I am taking? I already explained I am not undercutting anyone or being underpaid. Why bother go with the legal process if they can hire someone locally when they have to pay the same wages anyway.

Of course you're not being underpaid. if you're working in an industry with good regulations, there should be a pay band. So you shouldn't be paid that less/more than someone else doing the same job.

If you are coming into the country for a job, you are taking someone's job. It's just as that simple. They went through a long legal process because they know you have good skills, probably wagie and not likely to dissent (like typical ethnics). It's not just about the fact that they can pay you the same wage. They know you will work harder and be grateful for it. I would be exactly the same.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

They apply for the H1B with 4-5 subsidiaries amplying your chance of getting selected to near 100%

Then that company contracts you to work in other companies as needed, and takes around 20%-30% commission for this (basically for getting you a job in the US). It is basically corporate slavery for the curry for the mere shot of working in the US. Yes the pay is high but if you take the commission out , the worker itself is not getting paid even close-

This isn’t the case with Amazon , or Google. But it is notoriously the case with Tata, Microsoft and others. And if you look at the total number of applications - vs the actual amount of people applying - you will see this to be the case. And of course it’s Indians who are the overwhelming majority and culprits that abuse this system. (That you can apply for H1B under multiple companies )

Indeed some outsourcing firms like TCS and Infosys exploit the H1B system by filing thousands of applications through subsidiaries and taking a cut when contracting workers. They pay around $72K But that's not the fault of the worker and I wouldn't say it is the norm across the board especially among American companies. This is more done by Indian comapnies on overseas operations because they have relaxed over DOL investigations . H1B law requires companies to pay the prevailing wage or higher, and big tech companies like Amazon or Google pay their H1B employees well above market rates. It is generally U.S. company is still going through the expensive, high-scrutiny process to sponsor someone, it's because the candidate brings something the table

 

[Debetro]

Yes, of course. It's not necessarily bad. But I don't know why they keep bringing more and more when there are housing problems and people can't get jobs.

 

[widdi]

Yes

Companies have a requirement to hire natives first before applying for H1bs. They put up job descriptions that’s are impossible for entry level kids to fulfill, or they hide their recruiting ads in Sunday classifieds that no one reads. That’s why you have jobs like yours open for years until they can get an H1b

The Tech Recruitment Ruse That Has Avoided Trump’s Crackdown on Immigration

Every Sunday, newspapers are full of ads for tech jobs that aren't really looking for applicants. They reveal an aspect of U.S. immigration law that hurts both domestic and foreign workers — yet has endured for decades.

www.propublica.org

H1bs are paid fine, but still below median for their specific job in most cases. However they job hop less because it’s very hard to do so. So in the long run it adds up.

Also foreign graduates suck, US graduates from no name schools outperform foreign grads from elite schools. If it wasn’t for the slavery component and wage expectations were equalized almost no curries, chinks, Eastern Europeans would be hired.

Even American Women are better coders than the average third worlder

Source:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.1814646116

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Yes

Companies have a requirement to hire natives first before applying for H1bs. They put up job descriptions that’s are impossible for entry level kids to fulfill, or they hide their recruiting ads in Sunday classifieds that no one reads. That’s why you have jobs like yours open for years until they can get an H1b

The Tech Recruitment Ruse That Has Avoided Trump’s Crackdown on Immigration

Every Sunday, newspapers are full of ads for tech jobs that aren't really looking for applicants. They reveal an aspect of U.S. immigration law that hurts both domestic and foreign workers — yet has endured for decades.

www.propublica.org

H1bs are paid fine, but still below median for their specific job in most cases. However they job hop less because it’s very hard to do so. So in the long run it adds up.

Data from the U.S. Department of Labor shows that H-1B workers in tech earn above average. The median wages for software developers on H-1B visas in 2023 around $110,000, close to the $120,000 median for U.S. this is 90th percentile fot US. according to BLS.. The ProPublica you posted article is true. Comapnies do set up unrealistic bars sometimes but I dont think this practice is universal because all this are subject to audits by the US Department of Labor And yes H-1B workers do have trouble jon hopping due to visa restrictions but that doesn't limit their bargaining power and doesn't inherently mean they're underpaid or exploited. There is rigorous compliance in every level. I experienced it all myself. I went through like 8 different rounds to get my job.

Also foreign graduates suck, US graduates from no name schools outperform foreign grads from elite schools. If it wasn’t for the slavery component and wage expectations were equalized almost no curries, chinks, Eastern Europeans would be hired.

View attachment 3941784

Even American Women are better coders than the average third worlder

View attachment 3941787

Source:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.1814646116

The study you linked uses an ETS Major Field Test which the paper itself acknowledges favor U.S. students due to its alignment with Western teaching styles

They aren't measuring coding ability but general CS knowledge and asian schools dont teach CS concepts in that way. I studied in foreign school and we weren't taught it like this. We dont have deep learning about how things work with project based assignments.

My uni always followed an general exam oriented and interview approach to understand how a code is written. One example I can think of is OOPs. In Indian unis it is often taught as Java syntax rather than software architecture and Compiler Design involves drawing DFA diagrams than building a parser. So it is expected for Indian and Chinese students to do bad when they were never taught these things.

Just think about it why would a company invest on some immigrant and go through all that process to hire someone who supposedly does worse than even an average American from no name school and entrust them with something as mission critcial as network infrastructure and Devops where they could lose millions for single mistake just to save a couple thousand dollars on the wages. Isnt this a penny wise pound foolish kind of thing to do.

Btw I can also post a study like this that counters everything you just said. An article directly from the immigration council

Foreign graduates from top global schools, such as IITs in India or Tsinghua in China frequently match or exceed U.S. graduates in technical proficiency as evidenced by their contributions to patents and startups.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/h1b-visa-program-fact-sheet/

Also equalizing wage expectations would still see foreign workers due to the specialized expertise. There only like 5 people in my entire office that understand Terraform and fixing CI/CD pipelines properly. These things can't be locally sourced easily. Just look at the Silicon Valley's workforce composition. 50%+ foreign-born in key tech roles.

 

[widdi]

Data from the U.S. Department of Labor shows that H-1B workers in tech earn above average. The median wages for software developers on H-1B visas in 2023 around $110,000, close to the $120,000 median for U.S. this is 90th percentile fot US. according to BLS.. The ProPublica you posted article is true. Comapnies do set up unrealistic bars sometimes but I dont think this practice is universal because all this are subject to audits by the US Department of Labor And yes H-1B workers do have trouble jon hopping due to visa restrictions but that doesn't limit their bargaining power and doesn't inherently mean they're underpaid or exploited. There is rigorous compliance in every level. I experienced it all myself. I went through like 8 different rounds to get my job.



The study you linked uses an ETS Major Field Test which the paper itself acknowledges favor U.S. students due to its alignment with Western teaching styles

They aren't measuring coding ability but general CS knowledge and asian schools dont teach CS concepts in that way. I studied in foreign school and we weren't taught it like this. We dont have deep learning about how things work with project based assignments.

My uni always followed an general exam oriented and interview approach to understand how a code is written. One example I can think of is OOPs. In Indian unis it is often taught as Java syntax rather than software architecture and Compiler Design involves drawing DFA diagrams than building a parser. So it is expected for Indian and Chinese students to do bad when they were never taught these things.

Just think about it why would a company invest on some immigrant and go through all that process to hire someone who supposedly does worse than even an average American from no name school and entrust them with something as mission critcial as network infrastructure and Devops where they could lose millions for single mistake just to save a couple thousand dollars on the wages. Isnt this a penny wise pound foolish kind of thing to do.

Btw I can also post a study like this that counters everything you just said. An article directly from the immigration council

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/h1b-visa-program-fact-sheet/

Also equalizing wage expectations would still see foreign workers due to the specialized expertise. There only like 5 people in my entire office that understand Terraform and fixing CI/CD pipelines properly. These things can't be locally sourced easily. Just look at the Silicon Valley's workforce composition. 50%+ foreign-born in key tech roles.

Dnr but I’ll reply after work

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Dnr but I’ll reply after work

It is not very long read. Just takes 2 minutes.

 

[widdi]

The median wages for software developers on H-1B visas in 2023 around $110,000, close to the $120,000 median for U.S.

So below average in that actual occupation. Which is what I said. Don’t compare them to janitors or carpet cleaners.

Comapnies do set up unrealistic bars sometimes but I dont think this practice is universal because all this are subject to audits by the US Department of Labor

Doesn’t matter. It’s widespread. I never said it was universal or no new grads would be hired

1B workers do have trouble jon hopping due to visa restrictions but that doesn't limit their bargaining power

JFL this makes 0 sense. Job hopping is the best way to get raises

They aren't measuring coding ability but general CS knowledge and asian schools dont teach CS concepts in that way. I studied in foreign school and we weren't taught it like this. We dont have deep learning about how things work with project based assignments.

Aka they are worse. Everyone in tech has an H1b horror story

In Indian unis it is often taught as Java syntax

We also do syntax lol. Only CE majors or people who take electives are building compilers

Just think about it why would a company invest on some immigrant and go through all that process to hire someone who supposedly does worse than even an average American from no name school and entrust them with something as mission critcial as network infrastructure and Devops where they could lose millions for single mistake just to save a couple thousand dollars on the wages. Isnt this a penny wise pound foolish kind of thing to do.

Because they work longer hours for worse pay and stay for longer. It’s a catch 22. If H1bs didn’t exist they’d have to treat regular employees better which would reduce job hopping significantly. Now there’s no concept of company loyalty because companies can just move your job to India or hire and Indian here on a whim if it initially saves them money

Also equalizing wage expectations would still see foreign workers due to the specialized expertise. There only like 5 people in my entire office that understand Terraform and fixing CI/CD pipelines properly. These things can't be locally sourced easily.

Motte and Bailey. They can come on an O1 visa if they are that special. Otherwise it’s probably something that the company can train you for 3 months and you’d be able to do though. They aren’t mass producing ramanujan tier geniuses in these third world countries.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

So below average in that actual occupation. Which is what I said. Don’t compare them to janitors or carpet cleaners.



Doesn’t matter. It’s widespread. I never said it was universal or no new grads would be hired



JFL this makes 0 sense. Job hopping is the best way to get raises



Aka they are worse. Everyone in tech has an H1b horror story



We also do syntax lol. Only CE majors or people who take electives are building compilers


Because they work longer hours for worse pay and stay for longer. It’s a catch 22. If H1bs didn’t exist they’d have to treat regular employees better which would reduce job hopping significantly. Now there’s no concept of company loyalty because companies can just move your job to India or hire and Indian here on a whim if it initially saves them money



Motte and Bailey. They can come on an O1 visa if they are that special. Otherwise it’s probably something that the company can train you for 3 months and you’d be able to do though. They aren’t mass producing ramanujan tier geniuses in these third world countries.

You're shifting the goalposts. First it was “H1Bs are underpaid,” now it’s “they’re not geniuses.” No one’s claiming every foreign worker is a Ramanujan but not every job demands that. The reality is companies don’t go through months of paperwork, legal risk, and government audits just to save $10K/year. They do it because the talent pool even for mid-level roles like DevOps or CI/CD is limited. And yes, companies do rely on specialists who happen to be foreign-born. If you think that’s easily trainable in “3 months,” you're underestimating the complexity and business risk tied to modern infra. Just try learning the stuff I said in 3 months. It took me 2 years to learn this stuff after already having an extensive background and freelance work in SDE. Devops is not entry level job in thr first place.

Also, your own logic collapses. If H1Bs were truly paid less and worked longer hours and had no leverage then why are the top tech companies flooded with H1Bs and still growing? If these folks were so bad, you wouldn’t trust them with production deployments, Terraform stacks, or billion-dollar systems. You'd fire them. Instead in tech we see them seeing them promoted to leads, getting green cards sponsored, and managing infra you just admitted most can’t handle. That’s not a “catch-22,” that’s just market demand and it cuts through every lazy generalization about where someone’s born.

 

[widdi]

You're shifting the goalposts. First it was “H1Bs are underpaid,” now it’s “they’re not geniuses.” No one’s claiming every foreign worker is a Ramanujan but not every job demands that. The reality is companies don’t go through months of paperwork, legal risk, and government audits just to save $10K/year. They do it because the talent pool even for mid-level roles like DevOps or CI/CD is limited. And yes, companies do rely on specialists who happen to be foreign-born. If you think that’s easily trainable in “3 months,” you're underestimating the complexity and business risk tied to modern infra. Just try learning the stuff I said in 3 months. It took me 2 years to learn this stuff after an extensive background and freelance work in SDE. Devops is not entry level job in thr first place.

1. No. That was for the specific motte and Bailey where some super specialized role that could be filled with an O1 visa hire is used as an excuse to dumb all these H1bs
2. You were probably just bad or had limited real world work opportunities which is why it took you 2 years to learn whatever. If you are learning on the job in an apprenticeship type role it would never take that long. This whole H1b thing has caused companies to move away from the apprenticeship model where you train employees because now they’re way more replaceable. The expectation is for you to know whatever autistic little system they are working on. And because of this now employees are on their toes job hopping lest they get too comfortable and replaced not on their own terms. That’s the catch 22.

If H1Bs were truly paid less and worked longer hours and had no leverage then why are the top tech companies flooded with H1Bs and still growing?

? You just explained why

If these folks were so bad, you wouldn’t trust them with production deployments, Terraform stacks, or billion-dollar systems. You'd fire them. Instead in tech we see them seeing them promoted to leads, getting green cards sponsored, and managing infra you just admitted most can’t handle. That’s not a “catch-22,” that’s just market demand and it cuts through every lazy generalization about where someone’s born.

They see the trade off in cost and employer retention as worth it for the lower quality. It’s why people will hire Mexicans over whites to do construction even though Mexicans probably do a worse job.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

1. No. That was for the specific motte and Bailey where some super specialized role that could be filled with an O1 visa hire is used as an excuse to dumb all these H1bs
2. You were probably just bad or had limited real world work opportunities which is why it took you 2 years to learn whatever. If you are learning on the job in an apprenticeship type role it would never take that long. This whole H1b thing has caused companies to move away from the apprenticeship model where you train employees because now they’re way more replaceable. The expectation is for you to know whatever autistic little system they are working on. And because of this now employees are on their toes job hopping lest they get too comfortable and replaced not on their own terms. That’s the catch 22.

No.Modern infrastructure isn't something you just pick up in an "apprenticeship" and be fully productive. If it were that easy companies wouldn't be offering six-figure salaries for people who can manage CI/CD, Terraform, IAM, and production-grade systems. DevOps is not entry-level like I said. it requires a lot of cross-domain knowledge in systems, security, automation, and cloud. If companies expect people to "already know everything," that's not because of H1Bs that's because of tight deadlines and lean teams, something every engineer feels regardless of origin.

Just read this thread. Everyone is caging at a course offering to teach devops in 6 months. Btw didnt take 2 years to learn these tools. It took me 2 years to build a profile and get the relevant experience to apply for these roles.

? You just explained why



They see the trade off in cost and employer retention as worth it for the lower quality. It’s why people will hire Mexicans over whites to do construction even though Mexicans probably do a worse job.

And your comparison to hiring cheaper labor in construction hold up in tech. Top software comapnie. don't cut corners on software engineering the way people might with manual labor. I went through like 7 different rounds of interviews. I was asked everything from system design, to DSA to coding tests . They aren't just hiring randoms for a visa discount. These companies live and die on reliability. If H1Bs were dragging quality down. I literally would be the first person to be layed off. They would be first out in performance reviews but I instead see them getting promoted and take on newer more challenging roles.

 

[widdi]

Btw didnt take 2 years to learn these tools. It took me 2 years to build a profile and get the relevant experience to apply for these roles.

So you debunked yourself. You didn’t need 2 years. It’s because they’re expecting you to know everything off the bat instead of teaching you on the job. If they taught you on the job you would not need that long. The course isn’t relevant either. Courses != on the job training