Does anyone here even know what recession is?

[Deleted member 10413]

I swear I have seen at least 6 different methods for classifying it and who knows which one is correct?

Certainly not me.

We have this method:

This one:

That one:

Don't forget about the triangles:

There's this triangle:

And this other triangle

And then there's people who say that none of this is correct and you need an xray to determine recession

I hate this website so much.

@thecel @Ocelot @tincelw

 

[Deleted member 756]

If your face is flat it’s recessed

 

[patricknotstar]

I swear I have seen at least 6 different methods for classifying it and who knows which one is correct?

Certainly not me.

We have this method:

This one:

That one:

Don't forget about the triangles:

There's this triangle:

And this other triangle

And then there's people who say that none of this is correct and you need an xray to determine recession

I hate this website so much.

@thecel @Ocelot

I’ve been on looksmaxxing forums for 4 years , still have no fucken clue what makes a face good looking tbh.

 

[lepo2317]

for looksmaxers if you don't have top 0.1% forward growth, you are recessed subhuman.

 

[Deleted member 2214]

Yes it's messy to understand.

But this basically proves it's not all about bones because if it was then people like subhumancurrycel and mouthbreath would be slaying and Chico would be rotting here.

 

[Deleted member 12002]

I swear I have seen at least 6 different methods for classifying it and who knows which one is correct?

Certainly not me.

We have this method:

This one:

That one:

Don't forget about the triangles:

There's this triangle:

And this other triangle

And then there's people who say that none of this is correct and you need an xray to determine recession

I hate this website so much.

@thecel @Ocelot @tincelw

Lol, before I opened this thread I thought you were talking about an economic recession.

 

[Deleted member 13076]

If you're not good looking you're recessed

 

[Deleted member 10413]

If your face is flat it’s recessed

If you're not good looking you're recessed

Just look at it theory

 

[Deleted member 756]

Just look at it theory

It’s legit

 

[mogstar]

If you're not good looking you're recessed

Chico had a flat maxila and he is the only person I would consider 10/10

 

[Lux]

Chico had a flat maxila and he is the only person I would consider 10/10

flat ≠ recessed

 

[Deleted member 756]

@thecel how am I wrong?

 

[thecel]

If your face is flat it’s recessed

flat ≠ recessed

I think it's time that this site begins to make a distinction between flat and recessed maxillas. "Recessed" means it didn't grow properly. Meanwhile flatness is genetic.

 

[Deleted member 13076]

Chico had a flat maxila and he is the only person I would consider 10/10

both at 27, just lmfao at lachosky being a 10, The only PSL 10/10 in history was Prime Gandy

 

[Deleted member 756]

I think it's time that this site begins to make a distinction between flat and recessed maxillas. "Recessed" means it didn't grow properly. Meanwhile flatness is genetic.

Both look the same and so that’s cope

 

[thecel]

Chico had a flat maxila and he is the only person I would consider 10/10

I can't tell if you're serious rn

 

[thecel]

Both look the same and so that’s cope

Nope. Compare an Asian with good bone structure and a recessed Caucasian.

 

[Deleted member 756]

Nope. Compare an Asian with good bone structure and a recessed Caucasian.

Look the same

 

[mogstar]

both at 27, just lmfao at lachosky being a 10, The only PSL 10/10 in history was Prime Gandy

Nice cherry picking btw, but yeah prime Chico was simply unmogable

 

[mogstar]

I can't tell if you're serious rn

I’m not ??

 

[thecel]

I’m not ??

Thank God. Chico is utterly subhuman!

 

[Deleted member 756]

Nice cherry picking btw, but yeah prime Chico was simply unmogable

Tbh even there he mogs most men

 

[thecel]

Look the same

• Forward-grown Asian: maxilla short in forward length but positioned forwardly relative to the front of the cranium
• Recessed Caucasian: maxilla long in forward length but retruded into the skull

 

[Deleted member 756]

View attachment 1049595

• Forward-grown Asian: maxilla short in forward length but positioned forwardly relative to the front of the cranium
• Recessed Caucasian: maxilla long in forward length but retruded into the skull

White looks better

 

[thecel]

White looks better

Yes

 

[Deleted member 756]

Yes

You’re white luckily

 

[Deleted member 7725]

both at 27, just lmfao at lachosky being a 10, The only PSL 10/10 in history was Prime Gandy

Cope.

 

[Deleted member 13076]

View attachment 1049611

Cope.

Now he has to resort to using myspace angles and having a hairpiece attached to his head jfl

 

[Babushkacatlady]

These are the most reliable ways to measure recession:

View attachment 1049712

Indicator line

Every mm it is away from 38-40, that's 2mm of extra vertical growth.

Mandibular Plane Angle to Frankfort Horizontal

Frankfort to Nasion Vertical

F-Nasion Plane

If someone has a good jaw it is more often than not they have a good maxilla because a badly developed maxilla traps a mandible back and down, it's why the maxilla is always moved out of the way during major mandibular orthognathic surgery movements.

 

[entropy137]

You have to look at the base of the nose which grows on top of the middle of the maxilla, otherwise you can just get a rhino to have a more projected tip.

 

[Ocelot]

Indicator line is quite misleading.

First off you have cephalometric analysis which shows you the relative (to the cranium) position of the maxilla and mandible.
The simplest and most commonly used are the Sella-Nasion-A point (SNA) angle and Sella-Nasion-B point (SNB) angle (The ANB measurement is SNA - SNB and should be between 2-5, any more than 5 indicates skeletal class 2 and any less than 2 is skeletal class 3).

There are also other values that perform the same purpose but I just mentioned these two
They show the position of the maxilla and mandible relative to the cranium respectively, but do NOT indicate absolute forwardness so you could have a chad with worse values than an incel too, the difference is actually that stark.

There are several other relevant measurements such as the Frankfurt-mandibular plane angle, inter-incisal angle, lower incisor-occlusal plane angle, etc. but it would take too long to explain how they relate to each other and what their role in the face is,


Second is using soft tissue analysis we do on this site. Line from nasion to chin is legit BUT no one knows how to use it. It can ONLY and I mean only be used from a very specific angle. 90 degrees rotated from facial midline (in other words, EXACTLY the side of your face). I see so many people post almost 3/4ths and use this measurement, it's retarded.

Stuff like E-plane, "lips aligned with chin" are too inconsistent due different types of incisor relationships and lip sizes between people

There's quite a bit more to talk about but I frankly cba going past this jfl.

 

[Deleted member 5818]

you just look at a face and tell

 

[Deleted member 10413]

Indicator line is quite misleading.

First off you have cephalometric analysis which shows you the relative (to the cranium) position of the maxilla and mandible.
The simplest and most commonly used are the Sella-Nasion-A point (SNA) angle and Sella-Nasion-B point (SNB) angle (The ANB measurement is SNA - SNB and should be between 2-5, any more than 5 indicates skeletal class 2 and any less than 2 is skeletal class 3).

There are also other values that perform the same purpose but I just mentioned these two
They show the position of the maxilla and mandible relative to the cranium respectively, but do NOT indicate absolute forwardness so you could have a chad with worse values than an incel too, the difference is actually that stark.

There are several other relevant measurements such as the Frankfurt-mandibular plane angle, inter-incisal angle, lower incisor-occlusal plane angle, etc. but it would take too long to explain how they relate to each other and what their role in the face is,


Second is using soft tissue analysis we do on this site. Line from nasion to chin is legit BUT no one knows how to use it. It can ONLY and I mean only be used from a very specific angle. 90 degrees rotated from facial midline (in other words, EXACTLY the side of your face). I see so many people post almost 3/4ths and use this measurement, it's retarded.

Stuff like E-plane, "lips aligned with chin" are too inconsistent due different types of incisor relationships and lip sizes between people

There's quite a bit more to talk about but I frankly cba going past this jfl.

You should copy paste this into a thread (maybe go into a bit more details) and get the mods to pin it. They put a thread in botb which was much worse than the explanation you just gave.

 

[ObamasLastName]

It’s easier to determine recession with pictures without any background information on the meaning of recession. Any stranger off the street can tell the difference between a recessed face or any part of the face thats recessed and ones thats developed.

 

[Ocelot]

You should copy paste this into a thread (maybe go into a bit more details) and get the mods to pin it. They put a thread in botb which was much worse than the explanation you just gave.

I have wanted to make a thread explaining everything about forward growth for a long time but I'm too lazy to type all that

maybe some day if I have literally nothing else to do

 

[Babushkacatlady]

Indicator line is quite misleading.

First off you have cephalometric analysis which shows you the relative (to the cranium) position of the maxilla and mandible.
The simplest and most commonly used are the Sella-Nasion-A point (SNA) angle and Sella-Nasion-B point (SNB) angle (The ANB measurement is SNA - SNB and should be between 2-5, any more than 5 indicates skeletal class 2 and any less than 2 is skeletal class 3).

There are also other values that perform the same purpose but I just mentioned these two
They show the position of the maxilla and mandible relative to the cranium respectively, but do NOT indicate absolute forwardness so you could have a chad with worse values than an incel too, the difference is actually that stark.

There are several other relevant measurements such as the Frankfurt-mandibular plane angle, inter-incisal angle, lower incisor-occlusal plane angle, etc. but it would take too long to explain how they relate to each other and what their role in the face is,


Second is using soft tissue analysis we do on this site. Line from nasion to chin is legit BUT no one knows how to use it. It can ONLY and I mean only be used from a very specific angle. 90 degrees rotated from facial midline (in other words, EXACTLY the side of your face). I see so many people post almost 3/4ths and use this measurement, it's retarded.

Stuff like E-plane, "lips aligned with chin" are too inconsistent due different types of incisor relationships and lip sizes between people

There's quite a bit more to talk about but I frankly cba going past this jfl.

Indicator line measuring is messed up by most people because they usually measure it too low by not using a line from nose tip to tragus and pressing the nose when measuring. Indicator line is done by the approximation that in vertical growth the nose falls half as much as the upper incisors. Even people with "bimaxillary protrusion" have accordingly increased indicator lines if you measure correctly.

 

[Ocelot]

Even people with "bimaxillary protrusion" have accordingly increased indicator lines if you measure correctly.

That's where my reluctance to use it comes from.

You would have to calibrate the indicator line measurements specifically for each inter-incisal angle different patients have and I haven't seen such a thing so far.

 

[Babushkacatlady]

That's where my reluctance to use it comes from.

You would have to calibrate the indicator line measurements specifically for each inter-incisal angle different patients have and I haven't seen such a thing so far.

Inter incisor angle isn't that big of a deal so long as it isn't in the extremes, there are people with more acute inter incisor angles who have orthognathic faces so there is a soft tissue component to it too. The majority of cases of bimaxillary protrusion still show in the indicator line that they are retruded, despite it not seeming like this.

Let me reference my comment about bimaxillary protrusion from elsewhere:




Black shows position of incisors in bimaxillary protrusion and green shows their optimal position and red shows them after premolar extraction and retraction. Note how the incisors are actually further forward and up but upright in the optimal position, this shows how bimaxillary protrusion is no more than an illusion. See how the premolar extraction causes a little clockwise rotation of the mandible due to the incisors trapping the mandible further back. The indicator line for the bimaxillary protrusion case as you can tell would be increased relative to the ideal position.

On a face it'd look like this:

(Bimaxillary protrusion)

(Premolar extraction)

(Optimal position)

What actually happened to this kid after premolar extraction:

 

[thecel]

I swear I have seen at least 6 different methods for classifying it and who knows which one is correct?

How to measure forward growth v3

A good way to see how forward grown one is is to look at their side profile and see how wide and short the face is. In that case, a ratio of the face depth and height can determine how forward grown one's face is. Facial depth to height ratio (fDHR method): Height: Nasion to mentolabial fold...

looksmax.org

 

[Deleted member 756]

How to measure forward growth v3

A good way to see how forward grown one is is to look at their side profile and see how wide and short the face is. In that case, a ratio of the face depth and height can determine how forward grown one's face is. Facial depth to height ratio (fDHR method): Height: Nasion to mentolabial fold...

looksmax.org

Cope

 

[SixCRY]

U mesure SNA angle and SNB on a ceph

SNA is thé position of maxilla, if SNA = 82degree mean u normal
86 degree is chad, above its protrusuon

SNB is the position of the mandibule = 80dégrée mean u nrml
83degree is chaud

[Steiner analysis]

 

[datboijj]

my definition of recessed is
you can't swallow and breathe at the same time
only babies and all other mammals can do it
So by that definition every adult is recessed
But I will be the first one to not be

 

[joseph]

Yes

can surgeries help to compensate for the east asian skull like lefort 1 and lower third surgeries for more forward growth?

 

[thecel]

can surgeries help to compensate for the east asian skull like lefort 1 and lower third surgeries for more forward growth?

For Asians, Le Fort 2 is the way to go

 

[joseph]

For Asians, Le Fort 2 is the way to go

isn't that hard to get though? so can they do lefort 1 plus some implants instead?

 

[CertBroly]

Indicator line is quite misleading.

First off you have cephalometric analysis which shows you the relative (to the cranium) position of the maxilla and mandible.
The simplest and most commonly used are the Sella-Nasion-A point (SNA) angle and Sella-Nasion-B point (SNB) angle (The ANB measurement is SNA - SNB and should be between 2-5, any more than 5 indicates skeletal class 2 and any less than 2 is skeletal class 3).

There are also other values that perform the same purpose but I just mentioned these two
They show the position of the maxilla and mandible relative to the cranium respectively, but do NOT indicate absolute forwardness so you could have a chad with worse values than an incel too, the difference is actually that stark.

There are several other relevant measurements such as the Frankfurt-mandibular plane angle, inter-incisal angle, lower incisor-occlusal plane angle, etc. but it would take too long to explain how they relate to each other and what their role in the face is,


Second is using soft tissue analysis we do on this site. Line from nasion to chin is legit BUT no one knows how to use it. It can ONLY and I mean only be used from a very specific angle. 90 degrees rotated from facial midline (in other words, EXACTLY the side of your face). I see so many people post almost 3/4ths and use this measurement, it's retarded.

Stuff like E-plane, "lips aligned with chin" are too inconsistent due different types of incisor relationships and lip sizes between people

There's quite a bit more to talk about but I frankly cba going past this jfl.

How about an ANB of -4, and a Witts appraisal -10 degrees. What would you make of that?

 

[Ocelot]

How about an ANB of -4, and a Witts appraisal -10 degrees. What would you make of that?

skeletal class 3

 

[CertBroly]

skeletal class 3

Alright, would you say that’s very recessed or moderate?

 

[Ocelot]

Alright, would you say that’s very recessed or moderate?

show me your lateral cephalogram
if you're not comfortable posting it here pm me

 

[Deleted member 10413]

show me your lateral cephalogram

Wow at least buy me dinner first