Does Dr. Z ever do CCW rotation?

[Tobias Fünke]

Pretty much title. I like the guy and he is the osteo king (which is good because I never liked the idea of implants). However he is known for performing chin wings rather than CCW with bimax.This would be a bit of a problem for me as my Fwhr is death tier (1.59) and I also have gummy smile.

Has anyone consulted with him to find out if he is against it in all cases? @Gaia262 @SixCRY @Acromegaly_Chad

Also, if I get ZSO could this theoretically improve my Fwhr?

Thanks

 

[Gaia262]

Pretty much title. I like the guy and he is the osteo king (which is good because I never liked the idea of implants). However he is known for performing chin wings rather than CCW with bimax.This would be a bit of a problem for me as my Fwhr is death tier (1.59) and I also have gummy smile.

Has anyone consulted with him to find out if he is against it in all cases? @Gaia262 @SixCRY @Acromegaly_Chad

Also, if I get ZSO could this theoretically improve my Fwhr?

Thanks

I have no knowledge of him or seen any of his results.

But CCW is a standard technique when doing a bimax any maxillofacial surgeon should be able to do this if its indicated.

 

[Tobias Fünke]

I have no knowledge of him or seen any of his results.

But CCW is a standard technique when doing a bimax any maxillofacial surgeon should be able to do this if its indicated.

Appreciate the reply - hope your recovery is progressing well.

What you're saying is true but I know that he (allegedly) is always pushing chinwing to compensate for long midface rather than CCW and none of his posted results show CCW being used. It may be an ideological thing as some surgeons believe that there is a link between CCW and TMJ. I just hope that he will be amenable to doing it as he is my first choice.

Would I need an aggressive amount of CCW to bring my Fwhr of 1.59 into a respectable range? Something around 1.8 or more? Or is that impossible to achieve?

 

[Acromegaly_Chad]

I know a guy who got slight CCW with Z and he got fucked to say the least. He had no more upper teeth show when smiling, couldn't properly breathe through his nose anymore, and his x rays and profile looked like shit (saw the pics first hand). He had to get a lefort 1 revision somwhere else which turned out great, but since Z overimpacted his maxilla and he then needed downgrafting, the maxillary bones don't fuse properly anymore and he's now left with a constantly unstable maxilla/palate that moves up to 3mm when eating/chewing.

Wouldn't go to Z for CCW

 

[Gaia262]

Appreciate the reply - hope your recovery is progressing well.

What you're saying is true but I know that he (allegedly) is always pushing chinwing to compensate for long midface rather than CCW and none of his posted results show CCW being used. It may be an ideological thing as some surgeons believe that there is a link between CCW and TMJ. I just hope that he will be amenable to doing it as he is my first choice.

Would I need an aggressive amount of CCW to bring my Fwhr of 1.59 into a respectable range? Something around 1.8 or more? Or is that impossible to achieve?

its best to PM @AlexChase89 I remember him making a post about Dr Z , if i recall it was alot of negative reviews about him.

 

[one job away]

Pretty much title. I like the guy and he is the osteo king (which is good because I never liked the idea of implants). However he is known for performing chin wings rather than CCW with bimax.This would be a bit of a problem for me as my Fwhr is death tier (1.59) and I also have gummy smile.

Has anyone consulted with him to find out if he is against it in all cases? @Gaia262 @SixCRY @Acromegaly_Chad

Also, if I get ZSO could this theoretically improve my Fwhr?

Thanks

He performs small CCW and CWs but not to the extent of others.

source : i consulted with him

 

[Tobias Fünke]

I know a guy who got slight CCW with Z and he got fucked to say the least. He had no more upper teeth show when smiling, couldn't properly breathe through his nose anymore, and his x rays and profile looked like shit (saw the pics first hand). He had to get a lefort 1 revision somwhere else which turned out great, but since Z overimpacted his maxilla and he then needed downgrafting, the maxillary bones don't fuse properly anymore and he's now left with a constantly unstable maxilla/palate that moves up to 3mm when eating/chewing.

Wouldn't go to Z for CCW

Shit, that's a shame. Probably explains why he doesn't do it that often! Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Tobias Fünke]

He performs small CCW and CWs but not to the extent of others.

source : i consulted with him

Hmm, this thread is definitely giving me food for thought. Looks like Alfaro or Raffaini (if he's back in action) may be my best bets.

 

[Acromegaly_Chad]

Shit, that's a shame. Probably explains why he doesn't do it that often! Thanks for letting me know.

Yes Dr Z is good for linear movements and he is known for protecting the nerves very well (partly because he does a high cut BSSO which has significant other downsides) but not for great CCW, large advancements or drastic transformations.
If you need CCW just go to Alfaro at this point

 

[one job away]

Hmm, this thread is definitely giving me food for thought. Looks like Alfaro or Raffaini (if he's back in action) may be my best bets.

Z is overall a good surgeon as others said. Just not for rotation
Im assuming you are German?
Is the surgery solely aesthetically motivated ?

and what Budget do you have ?

 

[Tobias Fünke]

Z is overall a good surgeon as others said. Just not for rotation
Im assuming you are German?
Is the surgery solely aesthetically motivated ?

and what Budget do you have ?

I'm from the UK but my favourite results were by Dr. Z.

It's mainly aesthetically motivated but if it improves my breathing so much the better.

I could stretch to around €45K if that was necessary.

I'm more interested in frontal change than profile (but then again so is everyone else!)

 

[one job away]

I'm from the UK but my favourite results were by Dr. Z.

It's mainly aesthetically motivated but if it improves my breathing so much the better.

I could stretch to around €45K if that was necessary.

I'm more interested in frontal change than profile (but then again so is everyone else!)

if you ain’t German I can’t help you out except giving you the surgeon names you already probably know.

Ok. Yeah with 45k even Alfaro is easily in your budget.

alfaro is rather heavy on the chin. We here praise him a lot cuz it appeals to the chad image we have but it’s not for everyone I guess.

and im more interested in my side profile changes than frontal changes in my bimax.

 

[homo_faber]

every surgeon has fuck ups

 

[Tobias Fünke]

if you ain’t German I can’t help you out except giving you the surgeon names you already probably know.

Ok. Yeah with 45k even Alfaro is easily in your budget.

alfaro is rather heavy on the chin. We here praise him a lot cuz it appeals to the chad image we have but it’s not for everyone I guess.

and im more interested in my side profile changes than frontal changes in my bimax.

Actually a final stupid question: is it possible (or advisable) to get bsso & chinwing and then subsequently get DJS with CCW? I'm just thinking that I'll need to get ortho for the best part of a year anyway so I could be getting some aesthetic benefit while I'm waiting (if this is possible)? @Acromegaly_Chad @one job away

 

[one job away]

Actually a final stupid question: is it possible (or advisable) to get bsso & chinwing and then subsequently get DJS with CCW? I'm just thinking that I'll need to get ortho for the best part of a year anyway so I could be getting some aesthetic benefit while I'm waiting (if this is possible)? @Acromegaly_Chad @one job away

No. Any jaw surgery should be a one time thing. It’s not like a filler.

 

[one job away]

Actually a final stupid question: is it possible (or advisable) to get bsso & chinwing and then subsequently get DJS with CCW? I'm just thinking that I'll need to get ortho for the best part of a year anyway so I could be getting some aesthetic benefit while I'm waiting (if this is possible)? @Acromegaly_Chad @one job away

No. Any jaw surgery should be a one time thing. It’s not like a filler.

Or to give a more detailed answer. You shouldn’t do a bsso before a DJS as it will involve another bsso. (DJS refers to lf + Bsso). I’m not sure what all the implications of that are but I can imagine it’s quite a hastle since you gotta remove all the screws first etc. also I wouldn’t risk the health issues TWICE. I can imagine that the nerve injurie is much more likely to happen in a second or revision surgery.

you can have Chin Wing before a bsso. This surgery is health wise relatively risk free as it doesn’t cut the bone where important nerves are. But aesthetically speaking I don’t think that you should do that. If anything you should do bsso or djs first and then a chin wing afterwards or at the same time.

I think acromegaly chad actually had chin wing first and now wants a bimax. Or looksoverall? Not a good way to approach it.


the best way is really to have a djs first as a base of everything else. Moving your jaws in the proper position is the base of your face. Everything orientates itself after that. So everything else should follow after a djs.

 

[Tobias Fünke]

Or to give a more detailed answer. You shouldn’t do a bsso before a DJS as it will involve another bsso. (DJS refers to lf + Bsso). I’m not sure what all the implications of that are but I can imagine it’s quite a hastle since you gotta remove all the screws first etc. also I wouldn’t risk the health issues TWICE. I can imagine that the nerve injurie is much more likely to happen in a second or revision surgery.

you can have Chin Wing before a bsso. This surgery is health wise relatively risk free as it doesn’t cut the bone where important nerves are. But aesthetically speaking I don’t think that you should do that. If anything you should do bsso or djs first and then a chin wing afterwards or at the same time.

I think acromegaly chad actually had chin wing first and now wants a bimax. Or looksoverall? Not a good way to approach it.


the best way is really to have a djs first as a base of everything else. Moving your jaws in the proper position is the base of your face. Everything orientates itself after that. So everything else should follow after a djs.

Thanks for the advice dude. I'll arrange an appointment with Alfaro.