GoodLookingAthlete
Iron
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2023
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Before completely dismissing this post just know that I’m not trying to discourage anyone to improve his looks, nor am I implying in any shape of form that looksmaxxing is not in itself a worthwhile endeavor to improve dating success, my argument is merely that people in this forum underestimate the social interaction aspect of getting laid and how much leverage you can have over someone in general by being good at influencing people, and how it translates over to getting laid.
Who am I ?
I’m a guy who started off extremely socially awkward, weird, and a late bloomer—didn’t start getting laid until my early 20s. I was always at least above-average looking but I was such a social retard that it caused problems in every aspect of my life: dating, friendships, even being respected by people around me or my family.
I turned that shit around by starting a sales career in one of the most hyper-competitive sales fields in France working for an insurance broker company, where I became the best performer among newcomers in just a few weeks. After that, I spent about two years doing full-on “Wolf of Wall Street” style sales, running extremely aggressive and ethically questionable (to say the least) sales tactics on the phone such as :
When it comes to women, I’ve been sexually active for about five years. I’ve slept with roughly 15 girls—some were regular FWB, some I still see when they come back to Paris, and a good portion were one-night stands. I don’t struggle to get laid with girls that I find genuinely attractive.
I’ve also had dates go so well that the girl started being physical with me from the moment we met and I escalated the sexual tension to the point that after 10 minutes of being with her at the bar, I would already be kissing her, slapping her ass, fake choking her in front of people etc… Basically I know a thing or 2 about getting laid is all I’m saying, so the following chapters are worth a read (if you don’t believe me it’s totally fine I won’t fault you for it).
Humans are far more influenceable than people think
A lot of guys on this forum massively underestimate how influenceable humans are.
This isn’t some random opinion. Decades of research in Social Psychology show that people’s decisions are extremely sensitive to context, framing, and the behavior of the person they’re interacting with.
The famous experiments by Stanley Milgram showed that ordinary people could be persuaded to do things they personally believed were wrong simply through authority and situational pressure.
Research by Robert B. Cialdini showed that people’s decisions can be strongly influenced by factors like:
If someone has some level of interest and they’re in the right mental state (which I would personally describe as being “open to the idea” kinda feeling that comes with the opportunist and greedy nature of humans) , the outcome of the interaction can be influenced far more than people intuitively believe.
That applies to sales and it also applies to getting laid and dating. So much so that all of my friends that were sales virtuosos where I was working were doing good with women despite most of them being around average looking.
It’s actually a VERY difficult skill to acquire.
When I started working in sales, I was already performing better than every other beginner.
But even with that, becoming genuinely skilled still took years.
Years of doing 400–500 calls per day.
Years of being on the phone all day straight up bullshiting people, getting used to making shit on the spot etc..
Years of seeing how people react, testing different approaches, and figuring out why certain things worked while others completely backfired.
And a big part of how I improved was constantly learning from the top salesmen. Whenever I had a chance I would grill them with questions so I could pick their brains and apply it to my understanding of sales.
And after years of doing this professionally, you start seeing that the same principles apply outside of sales too.
Including interactions with women.
Looks obviously matter for initial attraction.
No one is saying a completely unattractive guy can consistently pull the hottest women purely through “rizz”.
But attraction isn’t purely about static physical traits either.
There’s a lot of research showing women are attracted to personality traits associated with the Dark Triad (narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy).
For example, research by Peter K. Jonason and colleagues (2009, European Journal of Personality) found that men higher in Dark Triad traits reported more sexual partners and greater short-term mating success.
Another study by Jonason et al. (2010) found these traits are strongly associated with short-term mating strategies.
These traits often translate into behaviors like:
“If you influence the interaction like that, it’s not real attraction.”
But that argument misunderstands how attraction works biologically.
Attraction and bonding are largely mediated by neurochemicals like dopamine and bonding hormones such as Oxytocin.
Research by Larry J. Young and others on pair bonding shows that these systems play a central role in human attachment.
These neurochemical systems can be activated by many different stimuli (not only physical attraction):
But What If She Realizes She Was “Tricked”?
“Even if you manage to influence the interaction and sleep with her, eventually she’ll realize she was tricked, realize you’re not ‘Chad’ and then it’s over.”
It’s not what happens most of the time in real life (you would have to come out of your mom’s basement to see it tho).
People have a strong tendency to protect their self-image. When someone makes an emotionally charged decision, their mind naturally tries to make that decision feel justified afterward.
I’ve seen this firsthand when I worked in sales selling shit insurance products, most clients logically understood afterward that the deal wasn’t amazing (to say the least lol). Yet most of them stuck with their contract and did not cancel it. The same psychological mechanism applies with women.
If a woman sleeps with a man she initially felt “uncertain” about, she usually won’t later frame the experience as “I was tricked" or “he’s not that good looking”.
That would require admitting she was thinking with her pussy and made a bad decision. Instead, her mind will likely reinterpret the situation in a way that makes the outcome feel coherent and justified. She would likely think stuff like : “he was actually more attractive than I first thought”, “it’s because we had so much chemistry”, “he was so charismatic” etc.
You see guys do a similar thing when they sleep with an ugly girl. They will say stuff like “she wasn’t that bad” etc.
If a girl enjoys spending time with you, if the sex is good, and if she feels good around you emotionally, the present experience matters far more than the exact conditions of the initial attraction.
At that point, from her perspective, her needs are being met (generally speaking).
This is also why the idea that women constantly want to leave for the first “Chad” they encounter doesn’t match what you see in real life. What usually destabilizes relationships is not that a more attractive man appears, but that the relationship dynamic itself stops working or was never good to begin with.
I’ve seen plenty of very good-looking men—guys most people here would easily label “Chads” or “Chadlites”—who still ended up getting treated poorly in relationships. Not because they lacked physical attractiveness, but because they became overly passive, lost their frame, or allowed the woman to dictate the entire dynamic. Eventually the woman lost respect for them, and the relationship deteriorated in exactly the same way people often claim only happens to “average” men.
Who am I ?
I’m a guy who started off extremely socially awkward, weird, and a late bloomer—didn’t start getting laid until my early 20s. I was always at least above-average looking but I was such a social retard that it caused problems in every aspect of my life: dating, friendships, even being respected by people around me or my family.
I turned that shit around by starting a sales career in one of the most hyper-competitive sales fields in France working for an insurance broker company, where I became the best performer among newcomers in just a few weeks. After that, I spent about two years doing full-on “Wolf of Wall Street” style sales, running extremely aggressive and ethically questionable (to say the least) sales tactics on the phone such as :
- Bullshit Script: Used a script with 99% fabricated or misleading content to manipulate and influence prospects into making quick, impulsive decisions
- Fake Authority Persona: Built a narrative that implied that my company was working for some kind of national institution creating a sense of legitimacy and authority to deceive prospects.
- State Aid Claims: Claimed prospects could potentially receive non-existent state aid, exploiting their desire for financial benefits to push for compliance.
- Closed-Ended Questions: Asked repetitive questions that they would only be able to agree with to reinforce compliance patterns
- Distraction During Impactful Decisions: Distracted prospects at critical moments while maintaining a direct, authoritative tone to prevent them from thinking critically.
- False Contract Access: Used information sneakily acquired during the call (or prior calls) to falsely imply we have access to prospects’ insurance contracts, to make them believe an "anomaly" required immediate action.
- Banking Info Extraction: got their banking details and sensitive documents by pretending to verify identity or process aid to then be able to sneakily establish the insurance contract that they would later sign
- Fake Emotions : I faked being an overly nice person who was genuinely concerned about the prospect and faked specific emotions at crucial parts of interaction when needed.
When it comes to women, I’ve been sexually active for about five years. I’ve slept with roughly 15 girls—some were regular FWB, some I still see when they come back to Paris, and a good portion were one-night stands. I don’t struggle to get laid with girls that I find genuinely attractive.
I’ve also had dates go so well that the girl started being physical with me from the moment we met and I escalated the sexual tension to the point that after 10 minutes of being with her at the bar, I would already be kissing her, slapping her ass, fake choking her in front of people etc… Basically I know a thing or 2 about getting laid is all I’m saying, so the following chapters are worth a read (if you don’t believe me it’s totally fine I won’t fault you for it).
Humans are far more influenceable than people think
A lot of guys on this forum massively underestimate how influenceable humans are.
This isn’t some random opinion. Decades of research in Social Psychology show that people’s decisions are extremely sensitive to context, framing, and the behavior of the person they’re interacting with.
The famous experiments by Stanley Milgram showed that ordinary people could be persuaded to do things they personally believed were wrong simply through authority and situational pressure.
Research by Robert B. Cialdini showed that people’s decisions can be strongly influenced by factors like:
- authority
- commitment and consistency
- reciprocity
- social proof
If someone has some level of interest and they’re in the right mental state (which I would personally describe as being “open to the idea” kinda feeling that comes with the opportunist and greedy nature of humans) , the outcome of the interaction can be influenced far more than people intuitively believe.
That applies to sales and it also applies to getting laid and dating. So much so that all of my friends that were sales virtuosos where I was working were doing good with women despite most of them being around average looking.
Being good at influencing people is actually hard
Now to be clear, influencing people isn’t easy.It’s actually a VERY difficult skill to acquire.
When I started working in sales, I was already performing better than every other beginner.
But even with that, becoming genuinely skilled still took years.
Years of doing 400–500 calls per day.
Years of being on the phone all day straight up bullshiting people, getting used to making shit on the spot etc..
Years of seeing how people react, testing different approaches, and figuring out why certain things worked while others completely backfired.
And a big part of how I improved was constantly learning from the top salesmen. Whenever I had a chance I would grill them with questions so I could pick their brains and apply it to my understanding of sales.
And after years of doing this professionally, you start seeing that the same principles apply outside of sales too.
Including interactions with women.
Attraction isn’t only about looks
Another thing many guys underestimate is how much behavior affects attraction.Looks obviously matter for initial attraction.
No one is saying a completely unattractive guy can consistently pull the hottest women purely through “rizz”.
But attraction isn’t purely about static physical traits either.
There’s a lot of research showing women are attracted to personality traits associated with the Dark Triad (narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy).
For example, research by Peter K. Jonason and colleagues (2009, European Journal of Personality) found that men higher in Dark Triad traits reported more sexual partners and greater short-term mating success.
Another study by Jonason et al. (2010) found these traits are strongly associated with short-term mating strategies.
These traits often translate into behaviors like:
- confidence
- social boldness
- dominance
- risk-taking
- willingness to push interactions forward
“But that’s not real attraction”
A common argument people make is:“If you influence the interaction like that, it’s not real attraction.”
But that argument misunderstands how attraction works biologically.
Attraction and bonding are largely mediated by neurochemicals like dopamine and bonding hormones such as Oxytocin.
Research by Larry J. Young and others on pair bonding shows that these systems play a central role in human attachment.
These neurochemical systems can be activated by many different stimuli (not only physical attraction):
- physical attraction
- emotional connection
- novelty and excitement
- sexual experiences
- traits that overlaps with the dark triad
But What If She Realizes She Was “Tricked”?
But What If She Realizes She Was “Tricked”?
A common objection is something like:“Even if you manage to influence the interaction and sleep with her, eventually she’ll realize she was tricked, realize you’re not ‘Chad’ and then it’s over.”
It’s not what happens most of the time in real life (you would have to come out of your mom’s basement to see it tho).
People have a strong tendency to protect their self-image. When someone makes an emotionally charged decision, their mind naturally tries to make that decision feel justified afterward.
I’ve seen this firsthand when I worked in sales selling shit insurance products, most clients logically understood afterward that the deal wasn’t amazing (to say the least lol). Yet most of them stuck with their contract and did not cancel it. The same psychological mechanism applies with women.
If a woman sleeps with a man she initially felt “uncertain” about, she usually won’t later frame the experience as “I was tricked" or “he’s not that good looking”.
That would require admitting she was thinking with her pussy and made a bad decision. Instead, her mind will likely reinterpret the situation in a way that makes the outcome feel coherent and justified. She would likely think stuff like : “he was actually more attractive than I first thought”, “it’s because we had so much chemistry”, “he was so charismatic” etc.
You see guys do a similar thing when they sleep with an ugly girl. They will say stuff like “she wasn’t that bad” etc.
If a girl enjoys spending time with you, if the sex is good, and if she feels good around you emotionally, the present experience matters far more than the exact conditions of the initial attraction.
At that point, from her perspective, her needs are being met (generally speaking).
This is also why the idea that women constantly want to leave for the first “Chad” they encounter doesn’t match what you see in real life. What usually destabilizes relationships is not that a more attractive man appears, but that the relationship dynamic itself stops working or was never good to begin with.
I’ve seen plenty of very good-looking men—guys most people here would easily label “Chads” or “Chadlites”—who still ended up getting treated poorly in relationships. Not because they lacked physical attractiveness, but because they became overly passive, lost their frame, or allowed the woman to dictate the entire dynamic. Eventually the woman lost respect for them, and the relationship deteriorated in exactly the same way people often claim only happens to “average” men.
