Ending the Body Debate Once and For All. After This Post Gymcelling Will Never Be Denied in Good Faith.

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WhatIsMyPlan?

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Title is self explanatory. I am going to address the various arguments and reasonings against working out to achieve a good body. The lunacy needs to end now. Once and for all.

I want to begin by stating that for me, the strongest argument for working out and building a strong physique to me is just the fact that I intuitively know that it's attractive. I don't need stats or arguments to prove this, I just realize and know it through instinct, and through my anecdotal experiences in life.

But I am going to begin by countering the ideas in the looksmax and incel communities with stats on why body is important.

1.) Muscle and Body Matters According to Studies.

This study demonstrates a major correlation between perceived male strength and attractiveness in the eyes of women.


Another study indicates that shoulder-width to waist ratio and V-Taper account for 80% of a man's bodily attractiveness.


"They were just rating muscular guys as attractive because they had chad faces."

This is incorrect as well. A study titled "The relative importance of the face and body in human attractiveness" had subject rate faces and bodies separately in terms of attractiveness, and then rated them with face and body together. They found that not only was body a significant predictor of one's attractiveness, but also that having a highly rated bodily attractiveness paired with a low rated face led to person having a significantly higher overall attractiveness rating than their rating on face alone. Additionally, having a shit body brought down the ratings of someone who was rated as a chad on face alone.

In short, body significantly boosted attractiveness in men even when their faces were considered bad.

2.) Shoulder to Waist Ratio

Another idea the pervades the PSL sphere is that while body certainly is important, the importance does not comes from working out but rather from one's bone structure and how wide their clavicle are in comparison to their waist,or from generally athletic looking body proportions. In other words, women are not attracted to muscle because it's not 100% genetic the same way that bone is.

Once again, this is misinformed nonsense and a misunderstanding of biology and sexuality/mating. First of all, many traits which you may consider to be "non genetic" are likely very much determined by genetics. This may include propensity to even go to the gym, as well as one's genetic muscle reception to pressure or testosterone, or prevalence of testosterone within an individual.

More importantly however, I want to combat the idea that women are "only attracted to muh bones because muh genetics". It turns out that men have evolved to have dimorphic fat distribution where fat in carried more in the shoulders and chest than it is in females. There's no correlation between this and strength, so it is thought to be sexually selected trait, meaning that women selected men who had broader/ larger shoulders throughout human history based party upon how that fat distribution lends itself to the V shaped male body.

What this means is that women are not attracted to you bone composition, but your body composition. They're attracted to the shape of your body whether that shape is achieved through muscles, fat, or bone is irrelevant.

So, obviously, this shape can be achieved through building muscle by working out. Yes, I will concede that if you naturally have significantly wide hips than your waist it is going to be hard to become attractive through building muscle BUT you may be able to achieve body proportions that don't look particularly subhuman and as such become more less ugly looking.

3.) Why PSL Debates About Body

The reason why PSL debates about body so much is probably just because the culture of PSL and the incelsphere are created from a rejection of conventional advice in regards to sex, dating, and attracting women.

It's similar to the founders effect, where countries adopt the ideals and practices of their founders on a macro level even hundreds of years later. An example of this is how America is full of pseudoscience and sigmashit work ethic crap because its founders were uneducated and working-class settlers who left Europe because it was over for them over there.

In the same manner, PSL rejects the idea od going to the gym to become more attractive as "just hit the gym bro". PSL doesn't reject working out because it's ineffective, but because it's normie advice. Normies recommend going to the gym to become more attractive. PSL is all about the rejection of normie advice in favor of becoming more attractive.

So obviously a tension arises here. You have normie dating advice that works, but PSLers in general as a culture reject normie ideals. This leads to these forums having varied and inconsistent beliefs ranging from the belief that body doesn't matter, to the belief that body does matter but only based on bone structure, to the idea that muscls matter but only some people who good insertions will be able to build decent muscle.

Blackpill is rooted in fatalism. It's over, but blackpillers can't agree why it's over. Is it because frame is genetic only? Is it because body doesn't even matter? All that matters to blackpillers is that your fate cannot be changed.

4.) No Gym For your Face

I find these types of arguments to be some of the dumbest. Sure, if you are obscenely ugly a good body will do very little for you. The same could be said about plenty of others aspects of attractiveness. For example a 5'2" guy with a chad face is fucked. No amount of jaw or eye area can save you from being a gigamanlet. Does this mean face doesn't matter.

This guy, JSanza29,
918 F57 DC 1 B5 F 4 A1 F BC8 C 3171943 E9545


Was once a poster boy for incels the way BLackops2cel was. He was also 6'5". Does this deny the importance of height? Of course not. Similarly, someone with a chad bone structure could be bald and covered in acne and have sallow skin and be ugly. Does this deny the importance of bone structure.

Obviously all aspects of your appearance all have to be at least decent in order to be attractive. Posting picture of ugly ripped dudes who are 5'2" doesn't prove shit.
I also think its silly considering that this forum constantly discusses how limited facial surgery is. We all agree that realistically, nobody can go from subhuman to chad with plastic surgery, and that many people are limited in they have flaws that can't even be fixed through surgery.

So I think this should highlight the importance of gymcelling even more. ithen surgeries being more about fixing subhuman features than creating chad features, , having a good body could be absolutely crucial for some looksmaxxers when it comes to reaching the point where you're actually attractive to women.


 
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heightface

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True. Going to start lifting small weights everyday
 
FailedAbortion

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Is anyone able to obtain a jacked physique or are some people cursed with such shit genes that they cannot grow muscle even when putting the same work in as a normal person?
 
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You're a fucking retard if you think those chads dont train

Also the rock looked like some smelly skinny awkward guy pre getting jacked. He wasn't Chad then
You're the only retard here. The chads I posted have much less muscle mass than the gymcels and mog them to death. This isn't a redpill forum. In your 30s-40s you will realize that going to the gym is an absolute waste of time if your goal is to attract women. If you're lean you should already have an aesthetic body.
1640090866673
1640090979080
1640090896242
1640090904220
1640090838076
 
AlphaDude

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Working out is a big plus. Anyone calling it a waste of time is a fat incel who doesn't have time cause he needs to play LoL for 12 hours every day. It's not that hard to take 8-10 hours of your week and work out. If not for the look, then for your health and self-confidence.
 
Grindr God

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Is anyone able to obtain a jacked physique or are some people cursed with such shit genes that they cannot grow muscle even when putting the same work in as a normal person?
My genetics are horrible, my body does not and will not grow. Tried on and off for 10 years nothing.

I can lose weight and I can also gain weight... but muscle never happens
 
PURE ARYAN GENETICS

PURE ARYAN GENETICS

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Working out is a big plus. Anyone calling it a waste of time is a fat incel who doesn't have time cause he needs to play LoL for 12 hours every day. It's not that hard to take 8-10 hours of your week and work out. If not for the look, then for your health and self-confidence.
yeah what's the fuss. light gymcelling is enough tbh so nobody has to cope not doing it. also lol gets boring after the 2nd match of the day :owo:
 
pianoboy123

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Title is self explanatory. I am going to address the various arguments and reasonings against working out to achieve a good body. The lunacy needs to end now. Once and for all.

I want to begin by stating that for me, the strongest argument for working out and building a strong physique to me is just the fact that I intuitively know that it's attractive. I don't need stats or arguments to prove this, I just realize and know it through instinct, and through my anecdotal experiences in life.

But I am going to begin by countering the ideas in the looksmax and incel communities with stats on why body is important.

1.) Muscle and Body Matters According to Studies.

This study demonstrates a major correlation between perceived male strength and attractiveness in the eyes of women.


Another study indicates that shoulder-width to waist ratio and V-Taper account for 80% of a man's bodily attractiveness.


"They were just rating muscular guys as attractive because they had chad faces."

This is incorrect as well. A study titled "The relative importance of the face and body in human attractiveness" had subject rate faces and bodies separately in terms of attractiveness, and then rated them with face and body together. They found that not only was body a significant predictor of one's attractiveness, but also that having a highly rated bodily attractiveness paired with a low rated face led to person having a significantly higher overall attractiveness rating than their rating on face alone. Additionally, having a shit body brought down the ratings of someone who was rated as a chad on face alone.

In short, body significantly boosted attractiveness in men even when their faces were considered bad.

2.) Shoulder to Waist Ratio

Another idea the pervades the PSL sphere is that while body certainly is important, the importance does not comes from working out but rather from one's bone structure and how wide their clavicle are in comparison to their waist,or from generally athletic looking body proportions. In other words, women are not attracted to muscle because it's not 100% genetic the same way that bone is.

Once again, this is misinformed nonsense and a misunderstanding of biology and sexuality/mating. First of all, many traits which you may consider to be "non genetic" are likely very much determined by genetics. This may include propensity to even go to the gym, as well as one's genetic muscle reception to pressure or testosterone, or prevalence of testosterone within an individual.

More importantly however, I want to combat the idea that women are "only attracted to muh bones because muh genetics". It turns out that men have evolved to have dimorphic fat distribution where fat in carried more in the shoulders and chest than it is in females. There's no correlation between this and strength, so it is thought to be sexually selected trait, meaning that women selected men who had broader/ larger shoulders throughout human history based party upon how that fat distribution lends itself to the V shaped male body.

What this means is that women are not attracted to you bone composition, but your body composition. They're attracted to the shape of your body whether that shape is achieved through muscles, fat, or bone is irrelevant.

So, obviously, this shape can be achieved through building muscle by working out. Yes, I will concede that if you naturally have significantly wide hips than your waist it is going to be hard to become attractive through building muscle BUT you may be able to achieve body proportions that don't look particularly subhuman and as such become more less ugly looking.

3.) Why PSL Debates About Body

The reason why PSL debates about body so much is probably just because the culture of PSL and the incelsphere are created from a rejection of conventional advice in regards to sex, dating, and attracting women.

It's similar to the founders effect, where countries adopt the ideals and practices of their founders on a macro level even hundreds of years later. An example of this is how America is full of pseudoscience and sigmashit work ethic crap because its founders were uneducated and working-class settlers who left Europe because it was over for them over there.

In the same manner, PSL rejects the idea od going to the gym to become more attractive as "just hit the gym bro". PSL doesn't reject working out because it's ineffective, but because it's normie advice. Normies recommend going to the gym to become more attractive. PSL is all about the rejection of normie advice in favor of becoming more attractive.

So obviously a tension arises here. You have normie dating advice that works, but PSLers in general as a culture reject normie ideals. This leads to these forums having varied and inconsistent beliefs ranging from the belief that body doesn't matter, to the belief that body does matter but only based on bone structure, to the idea that muscls matter but only some people who good insertions will be able to build decent muscle.

Blackpill is rooted in fatalism. It's over, but blackpillers can't agree why it's over. Is it because frame is genetic only? Is it because body doesn't even matter? All that matters to blackpillers is that your fate cannot be changed.

4.) No Gym For your Face

I find these types of arguments to be some of the dumbest. Sure, if you are obscenely ugly a good body will do very little for you. The same could be said about plenty of others aspects of attractiveness. For example a 5'2" guy with a chad face is fucked. No amount of jaw or eye area can save you from being a gigamanlet. Does this mean face doesn't matter.

This guy, JSanza29,
View attachment 1451392

Was once a poster boy for incels the way BLackops2cel was. He was also 6'5". Does this deny the importance of height? Of course not. Similarly, someone with a chad bone structure could be bald and covered in acne and have sallow skin and be ugly. Does this deny the importance of bone structure.

Obviously all aspects of your appearance all have to be at least decent in order to be attractive. Posting picture of ugly ripped dudes who are 5'2" doesn't prove shit.
I also think its silly considering that this forum constantly discusses how limited facial surgery is. We all agree that realistically, nobody can go from subhuman to chad with plastic surgery, and that many people are limited in they have flaws that can't even be fixed through surgery.

So I think this should highlight the importance of gymcelling even more. ithen surgeries being more about fixing subhuman features than creating chad features, , having a good body could be absolutely crucial for some looksmaxxers when it comes to reaching the point where you're actually attractive to women.


 
D

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You're the only retard here. The chads I posted have much less muscle mass than the gymcels and mog them to death. This isn't a redpill forum. In your 30s-40s you will realize that going to the gym is an absolute waste of time if your goal is to attract women. If you're lean you should already have an aesthetic body.
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All Copes.

Your not competing with Chad. Chad is another league with Stacys. Your competing for the plethora of Beckies. And ideally the HTB with a great gymcel body.

So gymceling is NEEDED 4-7/10 IRL rating.
 
disillusioned

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Sorry but number 4 is true. And no, you do not need to be 'obsecnely ugly' for your face to screw you over. A narrow chin/jaw and you're fucked. If you aren't at least 6/10 facially (that's still probably top 30% of males) body does not matter. Period.

EDIT: Also, gymcelling doesn't even make any difference unless you already have good underlying bone structure to begin with. If you have a scrawny frame/small bones like I do it becomes 100% irrelevant.
 
TrestIsBest

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My genetics are horrible, my body does not and will not grow. Tried on and off for 10 years nothing.

I can lose weight and I can also gain weight... but muscle never happens
I was the same way. Hopped on Test and that changed. Ever got your levels tested?
 
Grindr God

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I was the same way. Hopped on Test and that changed. Ever got your levels tested?
Haha. I ran test... even on drugs from deca to tren to NPP, never grew. So.

I don't know. I believe my diet is poor, protein isn't consistently high enough.
 
TrestIsBest

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Haha. I ran test... even on drugs from deca to tren to NPP, never grew. So.

I don't know. I believe my diet is poor, protein isn't consistently high enough.
I think you would even grow pretty well on like 100 g of protein on juice, so that's weird af
 
Grindr God

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I was the same way. Hopped on Test and that changed. Ever got your levels tested?
basically, I'll work out. I have no problem following a program. My bench stays so faggoty low like 135 pounds max.

So to me, that suggests my diet was shit and I'll have to eat heavier protein to allow the growth.

that's my only guess
 
TrestIsBest

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basically, I'll work out. I have no problem following a program. My bench stays so faggoty low like 135 pounds max.

So to me, that suggests my diet was shit and I'll have to eat heavier protein to allow the growth.

that's my only guess
Yeah go for 200 g protein and then just do a growing season for 5+ months on some gear
 
Grindr God

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Yeah go for 200 g protein and then just do a growing season for 5+ months on some gear
Put it this way, if a person is working out and getting sore so you know you're hitting the muscle correctly.

If you're not getting stronger, to me it has to be diet. I weigh 240 at 6 foot I'm fat as fuck right now...

200 grams of protein a day is very hard to do. I'll try
 
OnlyCameHereToSay

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Facecentric is the way to go.

But that said, it'd be crazy to say that gymcelling wouldn't help an awful lot of people. I'm just saying it's needed if you don't have a natural chad face and not needed if you do. Young Leo was basically the gold standard of the last generation and he doesn't look like he ever touched the gym in his life. But granted, hardly anybody has his face (differences in some photos suggest even he didn't have his 'media' face) ergo, the body needs work.

Gymcelling usually makes an 'almost there' face look better. Often makes a crap face look worse. The reason you don't see too many ugly ripped dudes is the same reason you don't see many under 5;9: chads: the same kind of genes responsible for strong height and strong body genetics are the same kind of genes that produce good faces.

All said, my theories stand:

-It's not about changing any one feature to be attractive, it's about the sum total of the presentation (what you guys call harmony). That's very hard to define and changing one feature almost never cuts it. But you know it when you see it and that multi pronged approach, including a workout routine, CAN elevate someone above the minimum point, where you look "good enough".

-Women mostly see men as attractive/not attractive. The 1-10 rating system is how MEN see people. Most guys just need to be able to get into 'good enough' territory.
 
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Do you really think people don't train for sports? Wow you people are out of touch. Many training routines for higher intensity sports are much more intense than your average gym routine.
That's not my point. Their muscle mass is normal for a healthy untrained young man. I was talking about how gymcels waste hours in the gym to obtain a meaty unaesthetic physique because their genetics are shit. Meanwhile chads have a perfect physique without training (or doing some sport) because how good your physique looks is 80% bones 20% muscles.
 
TallerGiraffe

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That's not my point. Their muscle mass is normal for a healthy untrained young man. I was talking about how gymcels waste hours in the gym to obtain a meaty unaesthetic physique because their genetics are shit. Meanwhile chads have a perfect physique without training (or doing some sport) because how good your physique looks is 80% bones 20% muscles.
Most people (prolly around 75%) have a base good enough to see moderate to significant benefit from building muscle. My point is that "doing some sport" often includes more intense exercise than most gym routines and is in no way light exercise. Having a good frame definitely puts you on easy mode but like I said earlier most people have genetic good enough to see some significant benefit, even if it takes longer. Some will obviously see more benefit than others but ignoring this nuance feeds into an oversimplified and frankly incorrect view of the situation. The mistake that many make is that they take training too far. People don't like people that look like meatheads. I think it's pretty well established that the preferred physique for women is the "toned" physique with varying levels of muscle definition. If you reply with pictures of people like the guy with shoulders narrower than his hips you are providing a perfect example of who would not see significant benefit from going to the gym. It can't work for everyone but it can for many.
 
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Most people (prolly around 75%) have a base good enough to see moderate to significant benefit from building muscle. My point is that "doing some sport" often includes more intense exercise than most gym routines and is in no way light exercise. Having a good frame definitely puts you on easy mode but like I said earlier most people have genetic good enough to see some significant benefit, even if it takes longer. Some will obviously see more benefit than others but ignoring this nuance feeds into an oversimplified and frankly incorrect view of the situation. The mistake that many make is that they take training too far. People don't like people that look like meatheads. I think it's pretty well established that the preferred physique for women is the "toned" physique with varying levels of muscle definition. If you reply with pictures of people like the guy with shoulders narrower than his hips you are providing a perfect example of who would not see significant benefit from going to the gym. It can't work for everyone but it can for many.
I agree with you. I mentioned that chad some sport because it's a hobby with the only purpose of having fun and compete. Meanwhile men who go to the gym usually only go for trying to get an aesthetic body (most can't).

Chad doesn't need to lift because his bone structure and his normal muscle mass give him a top tier body. Meanwhile gymcels need to compensate their inferior bones with unnatural muscle mass, which makes them look unathletic and unappealing. You can increase your SMV by going to the gym but it won't make a big difference unless you're fat or have zero muscle mass. Most men spending hundreds of hours in the gym can reach a 6/10 physique max. Chad spends all that time fucking woman and has a 9/10 body. Basically chad always wins
 
TallerGiraffe

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I agree with you. I mentioned that chad some sport because it's a hobby with the only purpose of having fun and compete. Meanwhile men who go to the gym usually only go for trying to get an aesthetic body (most can't).

Chad doesn't need to lift because his bone structure and his normal muscle mass give him a top tier body. Meanwhile gymcels need to compensate their inferior bones with unnatural muscle mass, which makes them look unathletic and unappealing. You can increase your SMV by going to the gym but it won't make a big difference unless you're fat or have zero muscle mass. Most men spending hundreds of hours in the gym can reach a 6/10 physique max. Chad spends all that time fucking woman and has a 9/10 body. Basically chad always wins
I agree with a good portion of what you said there. Some people truly do have an S-tier physique naturally but those people are rare. You see a lot of people who a lean with good faces with a decent physique but the truly good physique is very rare. Building a good physique in the gym is also very height dependent because although you shouldn't go down the absurdly high amounts of muscle mass path and instead focus on strength while building a moderate amount, the high muscle mass on a average frame look works a lot better and looks a lot less out of place on a taller person.
 
ifyouwannabemylover

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You're the only retard here. The chads I posted have much less muscle mass than the gymcels and mog them to death. This isn't a redpill forum. In your 30s-40s you will realize that going to the gym is an absolute waste of time if your goal is to attract women. If you're lean you should already have an aesthetic body.
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gymcelling is a waste of time but lifting/exercising per se isn't. those chads still work out somewhat to achieve the muscle tone that they have. agreed otherwise.

lmao brootal
2652252 1640090904220
 
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I agree with a good portion of what you said there. Some people truly do have an S-tier physique naturally but those people are rare. You see a lot of people who a lean with good faces with a decent physique but the truly good physique is very rare. Building a good physique in the gym is also very height dependent because although you shouldn't go down the absurdly high amounts of muscle mass path and instead focus on strength while building a moderate amount, the high muscle mass on a average frame look works a lot better and looks a lot less out of place on a taller person.
gymcelling is a waste of time but lifting/exercising per se isn't. those chads still work out somewhat to achieve the muscle tone that they have. agreed otherwise.

lmao brootal
View attachment 1456173
I agree with you. Gymcels waste hours focusing on getting as big as possible and most of them still look tiny and fragile because that's mostly about frame and height. Chad does some push-ups and squats, and it´s enough.
1640337539378

This is a 9.5/10 physique. As you can see he has a normal amount of muscle mass for a grown man but looks incredible. You can´t achieve a S-tier physique because you already should have it without gymcelling. This doesn´t mean that you shouldn´t lift, just don´t expect to get a +7/10 body.
 
TallerGiraffe

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I agree with you. Gymcels waste hours focusing on getting as big as possible and most of them still look tiny and fragile because that's mostly about frame and height. Chad does some push-ups and squats, and it´s enough.
View attachment 1456450
This is a 9.5/10 physique. As you can see he has a normal amount of muscle mass for a grown man but looks incredible. You can´t achieve a S-tier physique because you already should have it without gymcelling. This doesn´t mean that you shouldn´t lift, just don´t expect to get a +7/10 body.
Although I'd say that's a little more muscle mass than normal, you've certainly got the prediction on frame shape down.
 
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I agree with you. Gymcels waste hours focusing on getting as big as possible and most of them still look tiny and fragile because that's mostly about frame and height. Chad does some push-ups and squats, and it´s enough.
View attachment 1456450
This is a 9.5/10 physique. As you can see he has a normal amount of muscle mass for a grown man but looks incredible. You can´t achieve a S-tier physique because you already should have it without gymcelling. This doesn´t mean that you shouldn´t lift, just don´t expect to get a +7/10 body.
It's a morph lol.
 
Looksmax25

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I'm 5PSL and girls I have dated/hooked up with have consistently commented on my body... face/height is 1st importance though.
 
rdsky

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I agree with you. Gymcels waste hours focusing on getting as big as possible and most of them still look tiny and fragile because that's mostly about frame and height. Chad does some push-ups and squats, and it´s enough.
View attachment 1456450
This is a 9.5/10 physique. As you can see he has a normal amount of muscle mass for a grown man but looks incredible. You can´t achieve a S-tier physique because you already should have it without gymcelling. This doesn´t mean that you shouldn´t lift, just don´t expect to get a +7/10 body.
He obviously trains and that photo is morphed retard
 
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He obviously trains and that photo is morphed retard
He has the muscle mass that every healthy young man should have without training. And I know the pic is morphed.
 
LooksmaxxHopeful

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Title is self explanatory. I am going to address the various arguments and reasonings against working out to achieve a good body. The lunacy needs to end now. Once and for all.

I want to begin by stating that for me, the strongest argument for working out and building a strong physique to me is just the fact that I intuitively know that it's attractive. I don't need stats or arguments to prove this, I just realize and know it through instinct, and through my anecdotal experiences in life.

But I am going to begin by countering the ideas in the looksmax and incel communities with stats on why body is important.

1.) Muscle and Body Matters According to Studies.

This study demonstrates a major correlation between perceived male strength and attractiveness in the eyes of women.


Another study indicates that shoulder-width to waist ratio and V-Taper account for 80% of a man's bodily attractiveness.


"They were just rating muscular guys as attractive because they had chad faces."

This is incorrect as well. A study titled "The relative importance of the face and body in human attractiveness" had subject rate faces and bodies separately in terms of attractiveness, and then rated them with face and body together. They found that not only was body a significant predictor of one's attractiveness, but also that having a highly rated bodily attractiveness paired with a low rated face led to person having a significantly higher overall attractiveness rating than their rating on face alone. Additionally, having a shit body brought down the ratings of someone who was rated as a chad on face alone.

In short, body significantly boosted attractiveness in men even when their faces were considered bad.

2.) Shoulder to Waist Ratio

Another idea the pervades the PSL sphere is that while body certainly is important, the importance does not comes from working out but rather from one's bone structure and how wide their clavicle are in comparison to their waist,or from generally athletic looking body proportions. In other words, women are not attracted to muscle because it's not 100% genetic the same way that bone is.

Once again, this is misinformed nonsense and a misunderstanding of biology and sexuality/mating. First of all, many traits which you may consider to be "non genetic" are likely very much determined by genetics. This may include propensity to even go to the gym, as well as one's genetic muscle reception to pressure or testosterone, or prevalence of testosterone within an individual.

More importantly however, I want to combat the idea that women are "only attracted to muh bones because muh genetics". It turns out that men have evolved to have dimorphic fat distribution where fat in carried more in the shoulders and chest than it is in females. There's no correlation between this and strength, so it is thought to be sexually selected trait, meaning that women selected men who had broader/ larger shoulders throughout human history based party upon how that fat distribution lends itself to the V shaped male body.

What this means is that women are not attracted to you bone composition, but your body composition. They're attracted to the shape of your body whether that shape is achieved through muscles, fat, or bone is irrelevant.

So, obviously, this shape can be achieved through building muscle by working out. Yes, I will concede that if you naturally have significantly wide hips than your waist it is going to be hard to become attractive through building muscle BUT you may be able to achieve body proportions that don't look particularly subhuman and as such become more less ugly looking.

3.) Why PSL Debates About Body

The reason why PSL debates about body so much is probably just because the culture of PSL and the incelsphere are created from a rejection of conventional advice in regards to sex, dating, and attracting women.

It's similar to the founders effect, where countries adopt the ideals and practices of their founders on a macro level even hundreds of years later. An example of this is how America is full of pseudoscience and sigmashit work ethic crap because its founders were uneducated and working-class settlers who left Europe because it was over for them over there.

In the same manner, PSL rejects the idea od going to the gym to become more attractive as "just hit the gym bro". PSL doesn't reject working out because it's ineffective, but because it's normie advice. Normies recommend going to the gym to become more attractive. PSL is all about the rejection of normie advice in favor of becoming more attractive.

So obviously a tension arises here. You have normie dating advice that works, but PSLers in general as a culture reject normie ideals. This leads to these forums having varied and inconsistent beliefs ranging from the belief that body doesn't matter, to the belief that body does matter but only based on bone structure, to the idea that muscls matter but only some people who good insertions will be able to build decent muscle.

Blackpill is rooted in fatalism. It's over, but blackpillers can't agree why it's over. Is it because frame is genetic only? Is it because body doesn't even matter? All that matters to blackpillers is that your fate cannot be changed.

4.) No Gym For your Face

I find these types of arguments to be some of the dumbest. Sure, if you are obscenely ugly a good body will do very little for you. The same could be said about plenty of others aspects of attractiveness. For example a 5'2" guy with a chad face is fucked. No amount of jaw or eye area can save you from being a gigamanlet. Does this mean face doesn't matter.

This guy, JSanza29,
View attachment 1451392

Was once a poster boy for incels the way BLackops2cel was. He was also 6'5". Does this deny the importance of height? Of course not. Similarly, someone with a chad bone structure could be bald and covered in acne and have sallow skin and be ugly. Does this deny the importance of bone structure.

Obviously all aspects of your appearance all have to be at least decent in order to be attractive. Posting picture of ugly ripped dudes who are 5'2" doesn't prove shit.
I also think its silly considering that this forum constantly discusses how limited facial surgery is. We all agree that realistically, nobody can go from subhuman to chad with plastic surgery, and that many people are limited in they have flaws that can't even be fixed through surgery.

So I think this should highlight the importance of gymcelling even more. ithen surgeries being more about fixing subhuman features than creating chad features, , having a good body could be absolutely crucial for some looksmaxxers when it comes to reaching the point where you're actually attractive to women.


Fantastically worded and well-thought out thread, I'm skinny I gotta start hitting the gym.
 
LooksmaxxHopeful

LooksmaxxHopeful

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You're the only retard here. The chads I posted have much less muscle mass than the gymcels and mog them to death. This isn't a redpill forum. In your 30s-40s you will realize that going to the gym is an absolute waste of time if your goal is to attract women. If you're lean you should already have an aesthetic body.
View attachment 1451608 View attachment 1451628 View attachment 1451614 View attachment 1451616 View attachment 1451607
There are literally countless studies that show that muscle matters in attracting women, you can argue that putting on muscle won't be ENOUGH, but it will definitely never hurt, in fact it will always help, possibly not significantly again if you're genetically limited in some areas of attractiveness, but it will always help, a man will always be more attractive with increased muscle mass than without.
 
Deleted member 15305

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There are literally countless studies that show that muscle matters in attracting women, you can argue that putting on muscle won't be ENOUGH, but it will definitely never hurt, in fact it will always help, possibly not significantly again if you're genetically limited in some areas of attractiveness, but it will always help, a man will always be more attractive with increased muscle mass than without.
All men should naturally have some muscle mass. Lifting will have a significant change only if you're fat or have 0 muscles. If you're already in an acceptable shape it will barely increase your SMV.
 
kalefartbomb

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Gymcelling is a no-brainer looksmax everyone should be doing. There is a contingent of incels in the looksmaxsphere who hate any sort of effort-based looksmaxing. They want to believe all their problems can be solved with a pill or surgery. It's not only gymcelling but mewing also that they hate, even though mewing is something everyone should be doing anyway for the sake of just breathing correctly. But it requires effort and a change of habits, and that is too much for the lazy spiteful incel.
 
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WhatIsMyPlan?

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Gymcelling is a no-brainer looksmax everyone should be doing. There is a contingent of incels in the looksmaxsphere who hate any sort of effort-based looksmaxing. They want to believe all their problems can be solved with a pill or surgery. It's not only gymcelling but mewing also that they hate, even though mewing is something everyone should be doing anyway for the sake of just breathing correctly. But it requires effort and a change of habits, and that is too much for the lazy spiteful incel.

Very true observation about incels. Again, they are very fatalistic so the idea that you can become more attractive through effort is rejected by them. However, mewing is BS and a waste of time. if you can do it with much effort then more power to you, but with gymming you see results, incels just argue over whether those results matter. Mewing just doesn't have enough proof that it causes a difference, let alone a desirable difference.
 
Tonymontana

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Anybody who denies gymcelling/body game immediately loses all credibility in my eyes.

A lean, broad, muscular physique absolutely turns women on. Its why all male strippers are muscular, all female romance novels have muscular men on the cover, and why in reality tv shows like Love Island, muscular guys do the best.

Guys with great physiques know this first hand. Being jacked also gives you a huge mog factor amongst other men. Other dudes respect you much more purely off physical presence compared to a fucking twink. That respect makes you even more attractive to women.
 
metagross

metagross

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average gymcel after training 2 years:
1640079641612-png.1451454
1640079718266-png.1451457
1640079737702-png.1451458
1640079751995-png.1451459
1640079787648-png.1451461
1640079953078-png.1451468
1640079984821-png.1451469



average chad that doesn't train:
1640079840435-png.1451462
1640079850500-png.1451463
1640079857278-png.1451464
1640079893563-png.1451465
1640079939818-png.1451466
It seems better than not working out, ngl.
I know you're trying to convince people that gymcelling is pointless, but they all still look better than if they didn't work out. And you are actively trying to find ugly people aswell, so it doesn't really convince me.
 
Deleted member 15305

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It seems better than not working out, ngl.
I know you're trying to convince people that gymcelling is pointless, but they all still look better than if they didn't work out. And you are actively trying to find ugly people aswell, so it doesn't really convince me.
Agree but most normies think that gymcelling will change their lives. 95% of them will only increase their SMV by 0.25-0.75 if they gymcel (unless very fat or skinny).
 

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