free will doesnt exist

[theRetard]

Because understanding is infinite and beings don't have a finite understanding, if rationalism was true all knowledge would not change. The character of infinite knowledge comes from the experience of the world which is infinite. Language is also infinite and can't "catch" the essence of the object with just a thought (if something like an essence exists, it's more about qualities), this explains why you can change your mind about a certain subject you thought was "true" in a particular moment. I know this is anti-realist and I don't care.

so can you empirically prove me that something must be proved empirically? or at least, prove me empirically that 2+2=4

 

[JordanFagget271]

if we, or different societies have different norms it just means that some of them, or all of them are wrong. morality exists independently from humans

morality doesnt exist outside our brains morality is the way we think basically, but its shaped by outside events, which are DIFFERENT for everyone, in theory if you had experienced every single event and everything that ever happened as everything possible u urself would be the objective morality, but to humans morality is subjective since we all experienced different part of that objective morality and just to clarify this objective morality is in essence all subjective moralities coming together, right? which means that objective morality says that morality is subjective and this may be a paradox but i hope you didnt think this far cuz if you did you couldve elaborated in this direction 15 replies ago.

you said yourself here that morals comes from outside which means it is objective. also yeah your thoughts do not come from you but only because your thoughts are already YOUR SELF

now realized ive answered the second part of reply too basically

 

[JordanFagget271]

u 2 mfs are what i was hoping for uve actually made me think a lot harder and understand everything a lot better than b4

 

[JordanFagget271]

u 2 mfs are what i was hoping for uve actually made me think a lot harder and understand everything a lot better than b4

or 3 or 4 doesnt matter

 

[theRetard]

morality doesnt exist outside our brains morality is the way we think basically, but its shaped by outside events, which are DIFFERENT for everyone, in theory if you had experienced every single event and everything that ever happened as everything possible u urself would be the objective morality, but to humans morality is subjective since we all experienced different part of that objective morality and just to clarify this objective morality is in essence all subjective moralities coming together, right? which means that objective morality says that morality is subjective and this may be a paradox but i hope you didnt think this far cuz if you did you couldve elaborated in this direction 15 replies ago.

morality is not about experience, we discover it through reason

 

[theRetard]

morality doesnt exist outside our brains morality is the way we think basically, but its shaped by outside events, which are DIFFERENT for everyone, in theory if you had experienced every single event and everything that ever happened as everything possible u urself would be the objective morality, but to humans morality is subjective since we all experienced different part of that objective morality and just to clarify this objective morality is in essence all subjective moralities coming together, right? which means that objective morality says that morality is subjective and this may be a paradox but i hope you didnt think this far cuz if you did you couldve elaborated in this direction 15 replies ago.

now realized ive answered the second part of reply too basically

if we take that premise about morality not existing outside of our brains then it's you are right but i can debate that premise

 

[JordanFagget271]

if we take that premise about morality not existing outside of our brains then it's you are right but i can debate that premise

i literally cant tell what ur talking about i need to sleep tho you can tell me why u think that so i have something to reply to in the morning

 

[sillybilly]

or it comes to a point where it doesnt matter, low iq people will say im wrong or not even understand what i meant

>"271"
>hitler pfp
>"from agartha"

oooh boy.. nazis...

 

[theRetard]

i literally cant tell what ur talking about i need to sleep tho you can tell me why u think that so i have something to reply to in the morning

if morality doesnt exist outside of our brains then i can claim in my brain that morality is objective.
subjectivism is self-refuting.
but morality exists outside of human brain because good and bad is one of aspects of reality

 

[Klasik616]

so can you empirically prove me that something must be proved empirically? or at least, prove me empirically that 2+2=4

Yes. Numbers mean nothing, and the reason is because they're abstractions. Numbers will never mean anything, they're symbols used as a language to simplify things. For example, when you *see* an object similar to other, you can say both are equal (even though this judgment is subjective) that's where 1+1 becomes two. You can say that if you have 8 units and you put them in 2 boxes equally, you will have 4 units per box. Math without an empirical world makes no sense, you wouldn't even understand the sense behind "1+1 being two", why not three or four? All meaning comes from experience and the main realm of experience is the human body. The meaning of anything is adquired through a relationship between "I and No-I" (according to Fichte and Hegel), it's a "debate" in the mind. We are trapped in our own convictions, there's no universal truth to anything.

 

[theRetard]

Yes. Numbers mean nothing, and the reason is because they're abstractions. Numbers will never mean anything, they're symbols used as a language to simplify things. For example, when you *see* an object similar to other, you can say both are equal (even though this judgment is subjective) that's where 1+1 becomes two. You can say that if you have 8 units and you put them in 2 boxes equally, you will have 4 units per box. Math without an empirical world makes no sense, you wouldn't even understand the sense behind "1+1 being two", why not three or four? All meaning comes from experience and the main realm of experience is the human body. The meaning of anything is adquired through a relationship between "I and No-I" (according to Fichte and Hegel), it's a "debate" in the mind. We are trapped in our own convictions, there's no universal truth to anything.

even if 2+2=4 might be proven empirically, then how are they abstractions now? they are material then according to this logic.
and also, if there is no universal truth and everything is subjective, then your own statement about it might be non-true. saying that there's no universal truth is self-refuting

 

[Klasik616]

even if 2+2=4 might be proven empirically, then how are they abstractions now? they are material then according to this logic.
and also, if there is no universal truth and everything is subjective, then your own statement about it might be non-true. saying that there's no universal truth is self-refuting

Abstractions are not knowledge you were asking about knowledge, they are just symbols without any "rational" support.
About the second part, it is what I said knowledge is subjective and depends on your own view of the "object".
This is so water man, if knowledge was universal why would be humans arguing about anything?
This rejects common sense.
My answer is not self refuting, I'm just saying everyone has an opinion and the reasons behind it may vary.
Your supposed "universal truth" is still a subjective judgment, you can't escape self convictions. Truth is self coherence.

 

[theRetard]

Abstractions are not knowledge you were asking about knowledge, they are just symbols without any support.
About the second part, it is what I said knowledge is subjective and depends on your own view of the object.
This is so water man, if knowledge was universal why would be humans arguing about anything?
This rejects common sense.

but knowledge itself is abstract.
If abstractions are meaningless then knowledge is also meaningless but it's a contradiction

 

[Klasik616]

but knowledge itself is abstract.
If abstractions are meaningless then knowledge is also meaningless but it's a contradiction

For empirists knowledge is never abstract but always direct and has a source. The source may vary. For example some believe in the "subject" I don't, I believe in the mind and body being the realm of experience only. There's nothing else outside this. You're trapped in the convictions you have made through your life. Life is different from body to body, you think Chad is blackpilled? Study more about perception.

 

[emogymmaxx]

wanna bet ill show you a GREAT exercise of free will

 

[theRetard]

For empirists knowledge is never abstract but always direct and has a source. The source may vary. For example some believe in the "subject" I don't, I believe in the mind and body being the realm of experience only. There's nothing else outside this. You're trapped in the convictions you have made through your life. Life is different from body to body, you think Chad is blackpilled? Study more about perception.

but knowledge is a concept, and concepts are abstract. so knowledge can't be non-abstract

 

[greycel]

If it does exist, it'll sufficiently matter

 

[PoopyFartGamer]

to many yes it does change everything for example the belief in god, why would you worship him if you were destined to either be with him or no from the start and you had no power to change it at any point in ur life at all?

If it's not real then why worry abt it? It doesn't change anything bcs it's already set in stones. Worshipping is useless but doing it doesn't change anything anyway so just let ppl do it.

 

[JordanFagget271]

If it's not real then why worry abt it? It doesn't change anything bcs it's already set in stones. Worshipping is useless but doing it doesn't change anything anyway so just let ppl do it.

i mean were debating wether its real or no tho its proven not real atleast here and i dont worry about it i just like to debate, and yeah worshipping is useless and thats exactly why i hate when people do that, not when anyone does it but when smart people do, i find it very counterintuitive, and since theyre smart you just need to point them to a thinking direction and they will do the rest themselves

 

[JordanFagget271]

if morality doesnt exist outside of our brains then i can claim in my brain that morality is objective.
subjectivism is self-refuting.
but morality exists outside of human brain because good and bad is one of aspects of reality

its not one of the aspects of reality sorry the concept of good and bad exists only in ur mind, in nature good and evil dont exist at all

 

[theRetard]

its not one of the aspects of reality sorry the concept of good and bad exists only in ur mind, in nature good and evil dont exist at all

if we accept your premise that it's concept of good and bad exist only in mind, then concepts overall exist only in your mind. and then concept of reality exists in your head too. and then reality is not real. but it's wrong.

concepts exist independently from your brain

 

[JordanFagget271]

if we accept your premise that it's concept of good and bad exist only in mind, then concepts overall exist only in your mind. and then concept of reality exists in your head too. and then reality is not real. but it's wrong.

concepts exist independently from your brain

no its like ur concept of reality is not real, reality is

 

[theRetard]

no its like ur concept of reality is not real, reality is

but reality is a concept itself

 

[JordanFagget271]

but reality is a concept itself

no its not, if reality is a concept then we live in a concept etc. etc. its not a concept, there is a concept of reality and then there is reality

 

[theRetard]

no its not, if reality is a concept then we live in a concept etc. etc. its not a concept, there is a concept of reality and then there is reality

you didn't say directly but i understand you assume that reality can be only material. but it is self-refuting because the matter is also an abstract concept

 

[JordanFagget271]

you didn't say directly but i understand you assume that reality can be only material. but it is self-refuting because the matter is also an abstract concept

how is matter an abstract concept?

 

[turkcelfatcel]

or it comes to a point where it doesnt matter, low iq people will say im wrong or not even understand what i meant

Im drowning

 

[JordanFagget271]

Im drowning

what

 

[theRetard]

how is matter an abstract concept?

so if it's not an abstract concept, then can you touch the word "matter"?

 

[JordanFagget271]

so if it's not an abstract concept, then can you touch the word "matter"?

word no, since word is abstract but i can very well touch the thing ur reffering as matter

 

[theRetard]

word no, since word is abstract but i can very well touch the thing ur reffering as matter

so basically abstractions exist independently from mind

 

[JordanFagget271]

so basically abstractions exist independently from mind

what, no?

 

[theRetard]

what, no?

but you said that "i can very well touch the thing ur reffering as matter"

 

[jaaba]

or it comes to a point where it doesnt matter, low iq people will say im wrong or not even understand what i meant

I’ve never really thought it’s that useful to think about whether or not we actually have free will, it doesn’t change anything about your life knowing it if it’s true

 

[Noesis]

Again with this bullshit determinism

 

[JordanFagget271]

but you said that "i can very well touch the thing ur reffering as matter"

matter isnt abstraction, the thing ur reffering to as matter does exist, matter doesnt

 

[JordanFagget271]

I’ve never really thought it’s that useful to think about whether or not we actually have free will, it doesn’t change anything about your life knowing it if it’s true

yeah but its fun to debate

 

[ChrisFletcher]

If you had free will you would have bleached your brown skin

 

[JordanFagget271]

If you had free will you would have bleached your brown skin

yeah im not brown im white

 

[theRetard]

matter isnt abstraction, the thing ur reffering to as matter does exist, matter doesnt

but existence is abstract thing too, how can thing that reffers us to matter exist without being abstract if existing itself is abstract?

 

[paladincel_]

Circular reasoning fallacy.

 

[JordanFagget271]

but existence is abstract thing too, how can thing that reffers us to matter exist without being abstract if existing itself is abstract?

what if existence isnt abstract?

 

[theRetard]

what if existence isnt abstract?

if it is not abstract, then you wouldn't even spell existence rn

 

[JordanFagget271]

if it is not abstract, then you wouldn't even spell existence rn

existence is not abstract, its a part of a non abstract being, idea of existence is abstract, existence itself is not

 

[theRetard]

existence is not abstract, its a part of a non abstract being, idea of existence is abstract, existence itself is not

but if existence isn't abstract then abstractions aren't abstract, because their predicate (existence) isn't abstract

 

[JordanFagget271]

but if existence isn't abstract then abstractions aren't abstract, because their predicate (existence) isn't abstract

no abstractions are ideas, existence in itself is not abstract, ideas of existence are

 

[theRetard]

no abstractions are ideas, existence in itself is not abstract, ideas of existence are

but if existence is not abstract, then our thoughts on it are also non-abstract because our thoughts exist

 

[PoopyFartGamer]

i mean were debating wether its real or no tho its proven not real atleast here and i dont worry about it i just like to debate, and yeah worshipping is useless and thats exactly why i hate when people do that, not when anyone does it but when smart people do, i find it very counterintuitive, and since theyre smart you just need to point them to a thinking direction and they will do the rest themselves

Ya I get that but why do it? They're destined to do it anyway. U never point them to a direction, they're gonna go that direction anyway. I'm sure ur smart enough to understand this. We will all be happier if we live according to the natural flow of things. Trying to be smart is basically trying to go against that flow. I envy those who never think abt any of this and just live.

 

[JordanFagget271]

but if existence is not abstract, then our thoughts on it are also non-abstract because our thoughts exist

our thoughts are abstract by nature based on experiences that arent abstract they are abstrtact connections between experiences forgot to post this reply hours ago

Ya I get that but why do it? They're destined to do it anyway. U never point them to a direction, they're gonna go that direction anyway. I'm sure ur smart enough to understand this. We will all be happier if we live according to the natural flow of things. Trying to be smart is basically trying to go against that flow. I envy those who never think abt any of this and just live.

what if theyre not supposed to do that, whatever you do you go with the flow you cant go against it at all which means by saying and doing anything you just go with the flow, its impossible to go against it by anything you do

 

[theRetard]

our thoughts are abstract by nature based on experiences that arent abstract they are abstrtact connections between experiences forgot to post this reply hours ago

but thoughts can not be abstract if we take your premise about existence being non-abstract
because thought predicate is existence as well, so if existence is not abstract, then abstractions do not exist at all include thoughts, so by that logic thoughts are not abstract either.
but anyway existence being non-abstract is a false premise because existence is what we apply to things, but it's not a thing itself