take minimum 6iu, monitor ur estro if it goes too high take ai, yes it can affect face slightly probably
how is hgh goin to raise E2?
no peptide will change your facial bones, they are already ossified at the age of 5 nigga
Yes, adding exogenous GH can push extra height, frame growth, fat-loss, and skin quality! I personally would recommend 4 IU per day total split like the following:
doesnt it? isnt that the reason everyone takes hgh with ai, hgh does increase free test
You're loud and you're very wrong retard, the maxilla has active sutures, the mandible grows via condylar cartilage and periosteal remodeling, the zygomatic bones and orbital rims also continue appositional growth and can be influenced by LGF's even after your so proclaimed "ossification"
was going off of something i saw in the BOTB thread on HGH and double digit IU use, maybe i need to recheck that
yeah and no food for 2 hours BEFORE AND AFTER PINNING if you dont want diabetes and im serious, also i dont think he wants to pin 3 times just for 4 iu total a day...
Well he's a little baby boy and I don't know how his body will respond to human growth hormone so it's best to start off in this way, you also make it seem as if pinning 3 times per day was some sort of painful tribute to ba'al.
how should i monitor estrogen
everyone says minimum 6 ius why not that much
A blood test- you can easily order a home finger prick kit
Like I previously stated, I have zero ideas how you will react to it so I'm not going to recommend a higher does, and stop listening to "everyone" that same "everyone" are the same ones who tell everyone that it is over if they maxilla is slightly recessed lmfao.
Just a dose you start on not the final dose
this is horrible advice nigga
Lets talk about it then bitch, how is it terrible
1. Taking gh at morning is terrible, morning gh levels are supposed to be low because your body is shifting into a cortisol dominant state to wake you up and ur body, your body already releases gh in a rythum with the largest being at night during a a deep sleep. When u inject gh in the morning ur going against ur natrual hormone cycleLets talk about it then bitch, how is it terrible
So 8 ius before sleep?1. Taking gh at morning is terrible, morning gh levels are supposed to be low because your body is shifting into a cortisol dominant state to wake you up and ur body, your body already releases gh in a rythum with the largest being at night during a a deep sleep. When u inject gh in the morning ur going against ur natrual hormone cycle
2. Taking gh right after a work out is stupid. During and post workout ur heart rate is elevated, when ur heart rate is high ur body goes from burning fat for energy to carbs, releasing carbs into the blood stream spikes the glucose in the blood which will raise ur blood glucose levels which will blunt the effects of hgh.
3. Taking 1u of hgh at nigh is so retarded this has no benefits, and taking 4ius a day is even worse just take 8iu to see acctual results
for best results yes
dont listen to him he is seveirly retarded
dont listen to him he is seveirly retarded
its annoying to pin 3 times but i get you
hmmm interesting
???1. Taking gh at morning is terrible, morning gh levels are supposed to be low because your body is shifting into a cortisol dominant state to wake you up and ur body, your body already releases gh in a rythum with the largest being at night during a a deep sleep. When u inject gh in the morning ur going against ur natrual hormone cycle
2. Taking gh right after a work out is stupid. During and post workout ur heart rate is elevated, when ur heart rate is high ur body goes from burning fat for energy to carbs, releasing carbs into the blood stream spikes the glucose in the blood which will raise ur blood glucose levels which will blunt the effects of hgh.
3. Taking 1u of hgh at nigh is so retarded this has no benefits, and taking 4ius a day is even worse just take 8iu to see acctual results
LOL, that only shows the average percentage of growth completed, it isnt going to show that the bones are "fully ossified and dead"
The maxilla at 15 is not fully ossified and immovable as it still has multiple active sutural systems and periosteal surfaces that respond to mechanical stress and grow factors.
What is insane is that i'll forever be endlessly more intelligent than you due to your bitch mindset...dont listen to him he is seveirly retarded
Do that nigga.
dnr.The maxilla at 15 is not fully ossified and immovable as it still has multiple active sutural systems and periosteal surfaces that respond to mechanical stress and grow factors.
1. The midpalatal suture, zygomaticomaxillary suture, and frontomaxillary suture remain patent and capable for remodeling well into the late teels. Histological studies show these sutures also contain proliferative mesenchymal cells and osteoblasts that respond to tensile and compressive forces (Proffit et al., Contemporary Orthodontics, Melsen, 1975).
2. The maxilla grows via sutural apposition and surface remodeling.
-This means that the posterior maxilla and zygomatic processes continue downward and forward displacement appositional growth on the sutures and periosteum even after age 5 (this is Enlow's principles of cranofacial growth.)
3. The condylar cartilage of the mandible is a secondary cartilage growth site that OBJECTIVELY remains highly responsive to biomechanical loading and IGF-1 signaling until an ~18-20 years of age. To support my claim we have multiple studies that show condylar proliferation and ramus lengthening in response to forward mandibular posturing and growth factor stimulation during mid-to-late adolescence (Petrovic, 1982; Rabie et al., 2003)
So, to conclude, they are fibrous joint that permit remodeling that can consist of actual forward and downard maxillaru growth + condylar remodeling. *UNDER THE RIGHT STIMULI*
I'm actually curious on how you can possibly respond to me
Ok, I mean.. you told me to try moving a bone of which the growth is already 80% completed so I guess ill just repaste (with some additional sources and information of what I had said previously...)Do that nigga.
Try moving a bone of which the growth is already 80% completed
And by the way why should peptides/hormones etc. give you more bonemass?
1. How am i supposed to verify the quoted text if i get an "Melsen, 1975; Proffit et al., Contemporary Orthodontics"?
Okay, ill give you my studies that I personally studied.
send the link broOkay, ill give you my studies that I personally studied.
(the following studies PROVE supraphysiological androgens + the fact that IGF-1 can increase bone mass and do influence facial/craniofacial growth):
1. Yakar et al., 2002 (Journal of clinical investigation)
(Showed IGF-1 directly stimulates osteoblast proliferation and differentiation via PI3K/Akt and MAPK pathways.
When IGF 1 is elevated *which happens heavily on AAS cycles*, it increases bone formation rate and bone mineral density.)
2. Mohan & Baylink, 1991 (bone journal)
(Showed how IGF-1 is a major regulator of bone formation. Supraphysiological levels *which is exactly what occurs when you blast test + GH/IGF-1* increases osteoblast activity and new bone deposition, including on periosteal surfaces.)
3. Rabie et al., 2003 (archives of Oral Biology)
(Showed how elevated local IGF-1 dramatically INCREASES chondrocyte hypertrophy and matrix synthesis in condylar cartilage of the mandible. This is the EXACT growth site that is responsible for ramus lengthening and forward mandibular projection. THEY also showed mechanical loading + IGF-1 are in equity to an accelerated condylar growth even in adolescent models.)
4. Wang et al., 2008 (Journal of Dental Research)
(This showed how IGF-1 signaling promotes mandibular growth and remodeling. When IGF-1 is high, condylar cartilage proliferation increases significantly, leading to measurable forward and vertical mandibular growth.
5. Bhasin et al., 1996 & 2001 (New England Journal of Medicine & Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism)
(This showed how supraphysiological test significantly increases lean mass, muscle cross-sectional area, and bone mineral density. *the bone density increase was dose-dependent.*)
6. Vanderschueren et al., 2004 (Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
(This showed how androgens stimulate periosteal bone formation. This is why roider's often get wider cheekbones, WAY more thicker jaws than usual, and a more pronounced grow ridge. *Periosteal apposition on craniofacial bones)
___
To conclude, this is why whenever you blast test + run higih dose MK-677 or real GH + add localized IGF-1 LR3+ HML (high mechanical loading), you are hitting on the exact pathways (the osteoblast activation, chondrocyte proliferation, and the periosteal appositon) that drive new bone formation on the zygomas, gonion, ramus, and chin.
Have fun refuting me!
LOL, bet that up.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
*
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
they dont show how many cm of movement?LOL, bet that up.
1.*This is the Melsen 1975*Palatal growth studied on human autopsy material. A histologic microradiographic study - PubMed
The postnatal development of the hard palate was studied by conventional histologic and microradiographic means on autopsy material from thirty-three boys and twenty-seven girls aged 0 to 18 years. The findings indicated thet growth in length of the hard palate until the age of 13 to 15 was due...
-
(as said, shows midpalatal, zygomaticomaxillary and transverse palatine sutures remaining patent with active osteoblasts into late adolescence.)
2. Proffit et al., Contemporary Orthodontics
-
(This is a standard textbook that states the maxilla continues downward and forward displacement via sutural growth into late teens..)
3.*This is the Björk & Skieller, 1972 source I used*Facial development and tooth eruption. An implant study at the age of puberty - PubMed
Facial development and tooth eruption. An implant study at the age of puberty
-
(This is a landmark implant + cephalometric study showing maxillary forward growth continues until at least 17-18 in males, with SOME late bloomers into early 20's)
3. Enlow's handbook of Facial Growth
-
(These are detials on periosteal and sutural remodeling in the craniofacial skeleton during adolescence)
*To the ones that you cannot reach due to them having a link... Go google the full titles or use Sci-Hub if the full text is behind a paywall, im not your librarian
_________
NOW, to the last sect of what you said.. "There is a difference between getting more bone density and more bone volume, i doubt that peptides give you bone volume. You just stated that the peptides increase certain hormones levels... so what? Send me a study that shows that you get at least 1 cm more bone volumes/ the radius of the bone +1cm"
Well, lucky for you because I won't give you just ONE source.. I'll give you THREE sources bud.
To begin with, my favorite study that shows that direct stimulation of osteoblast proliferation and differentiation via the PI3k/Akt and MAPK pathways lead towards new actual bone being formed.
The following is the source:
___Circulating levels of IGF-1 directly regulate bone growth and density - PubMed
IGF-1 is a growth-promoting polypeptide that is essential for normal growth and development. In serum, the majority of the IGFs exist in a 150-kDa complex including the IGF molecule, IGF binding protein 3 (IGFBP-3), and the acid labile subunit (ALS). This complex prolongs the half-life of serum...
Now, we will talk about how IGF-1 LR3 and MGF drive new bone volume through the promotion of chondrocyte hypertrophy and matrix synthesis in the condylar cartilage and how it produces the EXACT mechanism that lengthens the ramus and projects the mandible forward
Once again, the following is the source:
___Functional appliance therapy accelerates and enhances condylar growth - PubMed
The present study was designed to quantitatively assess the temporal pattern of expression of Sox 9, the regulator of chondrocyte differentiation and type II collagen, the major component of the cartilage matrix during forward mandibular positioning, and compare it with the expression during...
Now, here is my TERTIARY source to show how IGF-1 LR3 drive new bone volume through an increase periosteal apposition on the zygomatic arches, gonion, and mandibular border! So, that by itself refutes you as it shows how it physically increases the WIDTH AND PROJECTION of the bones, not just the density of them
Bone growth factors - PubMed
Bone volume is determined by the relative rates of bone formation and bone resorption. Recent research in several laboratories suggests that growth factors may act locally to modulate bone formation by stimulating osteoblast proliferation and activity. A number of bone-derived growth factors...
ITS OVER
just concede already...
Growth is individual you neanderthal, the Rabie et al., 2003 and wang et al., 2008 showed significant increases in condylar cartilage thickness and mandibular length in response to elevated IGF-1 + mechanical loading. In adolescent models, they also measured increases in ramus height and forward projection that translates to several mm's in humans.
You didn’t study shit i can debunk this with my left nut nigga close gptOkay, ill give you my studies that I personally studied.
(the following studies PROVE supraphysiological androgens + the fact that IGF-1 can increase bone mass and do influence facial/craniofacial growth):
1. Yakar et al., 2002 (Journal of clinical investigation)
(Showed IGF-1 directly stimulates osteoblast proliferation and differentiation via PI3K/Akt and MAPK pathways.
When IGF 1 is elevated *which happens heavily on AAS cycles*, it increases bone formation rate and bone mineral density.)
2. Mohan & Baylink, 1991 (bone journal)
(Showed how IGF-1 is a major regulator of bone formation. Supraphysiological levels *which is exactly what occurs when you blast test + GH/IGF-1* increases osteoblast activity and new bone deposition, including on periosteal surfaces.)
3. Rabie et al., 2003 (archives of Oral Biology)
(Showed how elevated local IGF-1 dramatically INCREASES chondrocyte hypertrophy and matrix synthesis in condylar cartilage of the mandible. This is the EXACT growth site that is responsible for ramus lengthening and forward mandibular projection. THEY also showed mechanical loading + IGF-1 are in equity to an accelerated condylar growth even in adolescent models.)
4. Wang et al., 2008 (Journal of Dental Research)
(This showed how IGF-1 signaling promotes mandibular growth and remodeling. When IGF-1 is high, condylar cartilage proliferation increases significantly, leading to measurable forward and vertical mandibular growth.
5. Bhasin et al., 1996 & 2001 (New England Journal of Medicine & Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism)
(This showed how supraphysiological test significantly increases lean mass, muscle cross-sectional area, and bone mineral density. *the bone density increase was dose-dependent.*)
6. Vanderschueren et al., 2004 (Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
(This showed how androgens stimulate periosteal bone formation. This is why roider's often get wider cheekbones, WAY more thicker jaws than usual, and a more pronounced grow ridge. *Periosteal apposition on craniofacial bones)
___
To conclude, this is why whenever you blast test + run higih dose MK-677 or real GH + add localized IGF-1 LR3+ HML (high mechanical loading), you are hitting on the exact pathways (the osteoblast activation, chondrocyte proliferation, and the periosteal appositon) that drive new bone formation on the zygomas, gonion, ramus, and chin.
Have fun refuting me!
Please send more allegations my way, I like getting my ego-boosted.
@Zagro knows more than fucking wikipediaPlease send more allegations my way, I like getting my ego-boosted.
PLEASE proceed to debunk it, i'm actually curious on what you have to offer
You do realize that you are limited to what you see right?
The entire point is to mimic our own pulsatile secretion patterns, not to oversaturate and rape receptors. Splitting doses almost reaches a fully continuous secretion all day around 12 hours ish which is the opposite of what you should aim for, you don't have a singular idea regarding how exogenous hGH affects SOCS, and it's effects on GH transcription through JAK and STAT.
"berberine/metformin (which I already recommend)"
.Yes completely shutdown your endogenous GH production by exogenous hGH and substitute it with 4 units total daily, which is 2-fold below your endogenous production. How to stunt growth 101.
Hope u will pass the examsThe entire point is to mimic our own pulsatile secretion patterns, not to oversaturate and rape receptors. Splitting doses almost reaches a fully continuous secretion all day around 12 hours ish which is the opposite of what you should aim for, you don't have a singular idea regarding how exogenous hGH affects SOCS, and it's effects on GH transcription through JAK and STAT.
"GH-induced transcription was inhibited by SOCS-1 and SOCS-3"
"Both SOCS-1 and SOCS-3 were able to inhibit GH-induced STAT5 (signal transducer and activator of transcription) activation. SOCS-1 inhibited the tyrosine kinase activity of Janus kinase 2 (JAK2) directly, while SOCS-3 only inhibited JAK2 when stimulated by the GH receptor."
"The physiological role of SOCS proteins in GH signaling is not known at present; however, since SOCS-3 is the major SOCS protein induced by GH both in vitro and in vivo, this factor is presumed to be the main regulator of GH signaling. The transient nature of SOCS-3 mRNA induction by GH and the relative short half-life of SOCS-3 protein suggests that SOCS-3 acts in a classical nega- tive feed-back loop, suppressing GH signaling for a limited time period. Interestingly GH is secreted in a pulsatile manner in most species with a frequency of 3 to 4 h between each peak. This time period is in good agreement with the time required for SOCS-3 levels to return to basal levels after a GH pulse, and the role of SOCS-3 might be to protect against overstimulation by GH or alternatively to restrict the time in which a cell is responsive to GH stimulation." (1)
So my dear grey friend, this means that our body is complex enough to protect us against overstimulation, and regulated through suppressor of cytokine signalling proteins, when you split doses to make it even more continuous you absolutely risk lowering the efficacy of rhGH long-term. Pulsatile secretion is king and rhGH dosing once-daily mimics it nicely.
"SOCS2 SNP rs3782415 and rs11107116 T alleles were negatively associated with adult height after rhGH therapy" (2)
Nowhere near my level son, lower that ego and confidence for me right quick.
"berberine/metformin (which I already recommend)"
"that post-workout GH gives excellent IGF-1 response and recovery"
You like to contradict yourself son. Let's look at what berberine and metformin do to IGF-1 concentrations and IGFBP levels and ratios. This one picture is enough to explain to your ape brain how it works.
View attachment 4815108
"The compliance of participants was 95.2% and 40 available subjects analyzed in each group at last. Relative treatment (RT) effects for BV juice caused 16% fall in IGF-1 concentration and 37% reduction in the ratio of IGF-1/1GFBP1. Absolute treatment effect expressed 111 ng/ml increased mean differences of IGFBP-3 between BV group and placebo. Plasma level of PPAR-γ increased in both groups but it was not significant. Fold changes in the expressions of PPAR-γ, VEGF and HIF showed down-regulation in the intervention group compared to placebos (P < 0.05)." (3)
Now for metformin:
"Conclusion: We found in children, intervention duration ˃12 weeks yielded significant reductions in IGF-1, whilst paradoxically, in participants >18 years old, metformin intake significantly increased IGF-1. We suggest that caution be taken when interpreting the findings of this review, particularly given the discordant supplementation practices between children and adults." (4)
Both show decent enough to significant level dose-dependent and duration-dependent decrease in IGF-1 concentration and IGFBPs which literally decide your free-igf levels; bioavailable igf-1. If you're retarded enough to support these compounds for better IGF-1 response" I have no words.
"-Berberine (500mg 3x/day with meals is good)
-Metformin 500 mg 2x/day (optional but it is very effective" With this recommendation of yours we already know how significant those effects will be
Yes completely shutdown your endogenous GH production by exogenous hGH and substitute it with 4 units total daily, which is 2-fold below your endogenous production. How to stunt growth 101.
@Jesus_ist_König put him on ignore and keep going with your day man not even worth your time, and I wont even continue further none of his takes are correct it's just wasting my time and I have 2 exams tomorrow.
Thank you bro have to study till midnight now but it's biology anyways so pretty easy and fun
berberine
