monecel
Beauty and violence
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2023
- Posts
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I've lurked in the looksmax community for some time, I wasn't here super early but I was interested in BP earlier on. The reason is mainly that I've never really cared to appease the world and it's never really been a factor in motivating me towards things. I was also shorter than most of my class for most of my teens until very late so I got used to caring less about external valuation (call it cope or perspective). But after some time I really understood the effects your face and entire appearance/disposition have on your outcomes and it became obvious to me that looks are important and affect your life to a degree most things don't.
This is my main reason for hardmaxxing. I don't want to change for the external world or for women, but I want to change to: #1 improve outcomes so I can achieve my goals and #2 become more beautiful. I believe any person who is well adjusted will improve their own aesthetics or should at least make their exterior match the interior. Most people treat their bodies like shit and it shows. I am mentally prepared for change.
So onto my plan. Here is what I want to get:
Decisions in Design
My jaw is severely narrow and is not robust at all. My gonions are way too narrow (like 77% width instead of ideal 88-92%) and lacking height making my JFA deviation pretty huge. I have a 17 degree JFA-IAA deviation at the moment so I need to expand bigonial width and ramus height significantly. The issue here is that it would require huge gonial implants to reach even near to the desired width and if increasing height too, full masseter dehiscence (muscle detachment) is probably guaranteed. I expect some degree even with just the vertical dropdown but the expansion is too much.
That is reason for the split mandible osteotomy which is a pretty rare operation. It is a procedure where the mandible is split in half down the center allowing for true mandibular widening which no other operation can replicate. It also works perfectly with a segmented lefort as it allows the teeth to match well. My request for the split mandible will be larger posterior expansion meaning the chin region would only increase in width a small amount, maybe less than 5mm. But the back ideally will expand significantly, hopefully above 10mm. In doing this the TMJs are turned a bit. Here is the movement:
This movement also flares the gonions a bit more due to the rotation used. Then this places the gonions/mandible in an ideal position for the jaw angle implants which would make up for any missing width and would improve gonial show.
An example from coceancig showing the split in the middle of the mandible:
Next, for my maxilla - it is also narrow, but not as narrow as my mandible (5-8mm less on my intermolar width for my lower arch). I would like to widen it, for a functional and aesthetic benefit. My issue with MARPE, which I have considered, apart from the decreased stability is the fact that it increases nasal width as a byproduct of the movement it creates. A segmented lefort avoids this for the most part, while keeping most of the benefits. In addition, if the segmented lefort is posteriorially biased it means that the palate becomes less square-shaped while keeping the upside for aesthetics.
I currently have a 6-tooth smile due to my smaller palate and maxilla shape in general. A 3-segment lefort can split after the canines and then bring the sections out so the teeth show more. I also want to increase mouth width by 5-10% and a segmented lefort helps to stretch the soft tissue. An example for the movement is here:
To visualize what it looks like from below, here is a diagram:
My cut would probably be more like this:
For the advancement, I have a deep bite and mildly recessed jaw. My chin is the most recessed part of my jaw, but to fix the deep bite I need BSSO anyway. If getting a bimax I may as well get a good amount of advancement for increased jaw robustness and improved breathing. I only want to advance the maxilla ~7mm at most as past a certain point (probably 10mm), it makes the philtrum region look too flat or "dogmaxxed".
The genioplasty would increase both chin width and prominence. Because of the split mandible, I think the custom plate used for the split genio can also be used as stability for the split mandible, similar to below:
I mention staircase genioplasty as it is more ideal in my opinion because there is bone contact below the split mandible would be. If it was just split in the middle, both the mandible and genio would have no touching bone in the middle which would be pretty unstable. The genio wouldn't make direct contact with the mandible because of the advancement but it would improve the plate setup. If this can be done by my surgeon then I will do it.
For the inframalars, the design would increase the width of my face and improve the 3/4 profile while also providing under-eye support which I'm currently lacking (causes darkening under eyes). My IPD is currently too high (about 48-48.5%) and the only way to fix that is OBO (definitely not worth it for my case) or increasing facial width. I think increasing facial width will work because I can increase the robustness of my inframalar region to match the changes to the jaw and also it will move my IPD into the higher end of the ideal range (I hope I can get to 47.5%). I'm pretty satisfied with my eye region but I do want to improve periorbital support and increase canthal tilt more. Also coloring can be improve which I'm working on as a separate task.
The inframalars would look similar to this. They may have less on the inner region so that lefort plates can be placed or they may have hollow sections underneath to accommodate the lefort plates:
Now for the jaw angles, this is the part with the most difficulty I'd say, just due to the stupidly high height increase that is needed to get into the masculine ideal range. My gonial angle is about 127 at the moment and I want to get to 115. The only way to do this to this degree is to get a tall jaw angle implant. Again as mentioned before the issue isn't really infection or misplacement but what I may expect is some level of masseter dehiscence. I think I've decided on just letting whatever happen and if it looks very bad I could get some fat grafting or filler or worst case scenario do a revision for a smaller implant or no implant at all and just rely on filler.
I want a design where the BSSO plate covers a good amount of the side to reduce the appearance of the gap defect on the side. When younger, your skin is thicker so it's harder to see the imperfections underneath, but I want to plan ahead of time for ageing. I like this design below (giant's) where the implant covers the gap left in the mandible from the BSSO. This is better than the combination BSSO plate-jaw angle design in my opinion because it can be revised while leaving the BSSO plate.
I think I'd like my design to use a custom BSSO strut, kind of like below, and then extend the implant beneath it with a slight gap, though it depends on what the surgeon can operate. Like below in blue:
You can see how much my ramus needs to increase in height to be ideal. I want it to extend to the second section of the mandible after the BSSO cut so it would be pretty long too. Below is a 15mm dropdown:
I expect some CCW of the mandible which would improve how the implant and actual mandible bone connect, so the jaw doesn't appear rounded or flat on the bottom. If you don't understand what this means, essentially the front of the mandible could be rotated counter-clockwise (from the above view) but the back would stay where it is. The jaw angle at the front would become flatter but it wouldn't at the back. This makes a tall dropdown jaw angle better instead of a wraparound. I don't mind a bit of an antegonial notch though.
There aren't many examples of tall jaw angle implants, eppley has one where I believe it was a 16-18mm vertical dropdown:
Because jaw angle implants don't have much surface to grab onto, I would personally prefer titanium. PEEK is a decent option as well but it has some flex as far as I know, and I don't want an implant to snap if I fall on the side of my face or get punched. I want to break someone's hand if they punch me instead. One issue is that my surgeon for osteotomies may not be able to place this, which would suck as I don't want to go under anesthesia and have swelling twice, but - it is what it is - if its the case.
Other Considerations
Filler is one option to replace the genio, jaw angles and inframalars. However, it is temporary, migrates, doesn't look as real as a solid implant or bone and is a subpar option to me. The only area I think it may make sense to use is the jaw angles, to add height where the implant doesn't (if it can not be made 15mm tall), however fat grafting could potentially be used instead.
For my supras, my brow ridge isn't terrible, but if I had supras I would want a dropdown design where it lowers my eyebrows slightly and improves my brow ridge. My issue with it is that it is another incision, either in the eyelid (which sketches me out) or a hairline incision if it is a large piece, which is bad for ageing and also may disrupt forehead muscles. I'm not sure if it is worth it and I'm thinking fat grafting will be enough.
Tracking Progress
I will be logging my progress and will give updates for my plan and surgeries as time goes on. I'm doing consults so I haven't got a surgeon I'm locked down with yet. Though for the inframalars/jaw angles I have a designer.
I don't want to post my face because I'm not trying to spin this into a social media thing, however I can share sections of my face with some areas blurred (the ones that didn't change for example). I'm serious about this plan and hope to get actual osteotomy planning underway this year after consults, then hopefully I can get the main changes done by the end of next year. Swelling would be pretty extreme so I will run a peptide recovery and osteogenic stack to mitigate the downtime.
One more thing for teeth I probably will get is composite bonding as my lateral incisors are rather small and it makes my central incisors stand out too much (but this doesn't really count as a hardmax).
My main inspo for pheno and ratios is ehren, he has a higher ipd and we have similar coloring. If you have any questions let me know.
Stay tunedem.
This is my main reason for hardmaxxing. I don't want to change for the external world or for women, but I want to change to: #1 improve outcomes so I can achieve my goals and #2 become more beautiful. I believe any person who is well adjusted will improve their own aesthetics or should at least make their exterior match the interior. Most people treat their bodies like shit and it shows. I am mentally prepared for change.
So onto my plan. Here is what I want to get:
- 3-Piece Lefort I (with CCW and expansion, ~5-8mm advancement)
- L-Cut BSSO (~7-10mm advancement)
- Split Mandible Osteotomy (posterior mandible widening for jaw width and flattening of JFA)
- Split Staircase Genioplasty (advanced and widened, 8-10mm advancement)
- PEEK Inframalar implants (+~0.5% facial width)
- Ti Gonial Implants (~15mm dropdown, flaring)
- PEEK supraorbital implants
- Fat grafting
Decisions in Design
My jaw is severely narrow and is not robust at all. My gonions are way too narrow (like 77% width instead of ideal 88-92%) and lacking height making my JFA deviation pretty huge. I have a 17 degree JFA-IAA deviation at the moment so I need to expand bigonial width and ramus height significantly. The issue here is that it would require huge gonial implants to reach even near to the desired width and if increasing height too, full masseter dehiscence (muscle detachment) is probably guaranteed. I expect some degree even with just the vertical dropdown but the expansion is too much.
That is reason for the split mandible osteotomy which is a pretty rare operation. It is a procedure where the mandible is split in half down the center allowing for true mandibular widening which no other operation can replicate. It also works perfectly with a segmented lefort as it allows the teeth to match well. My request for the split mandible will be larger posterior expansion meaning the chin region would only increase in width a small amount, maybe less than 5mm. But the back ideally will expand significantly, hopefully above 10mm. In doing this the TMJs are turned a bit. Here is the movement:
This movement also flares the gonions a bit more due to the rotation used. Then this places the gonions/mandible in an ideal position for the jaw angle implants which would make up for any missing width and would improve gonial show.
An example from coceancig showing the split in the middle of the mandible:
Next, for my maxilla - it is also narrow, but not as narrow as my mandible (5-8mm less on my intermolar width for my lower arch). I would like to widen it, for a functional and aesthetic benefit. My issue with MARPE, which I have considered, apart from the decreased stability is the fact that it increases nasal width as a byproduct of the movement it creates. A segmented lefort avoids this for the most part, while keeping most of the benefits. In addition, if the segmented lefort is posteriorially biased it means that the palate becomes less square-shaped while keeping the upside for aesthetics.
I currently have a 6-tooth smile due to my smaller palate and maxilla shape in general. A 3-segment lefort can split after the canines and then bring the sections out so the teeth show more. I also want to increase mouth width by 5-10% and a segmented lefort helps to stretch the soft tissue. An example for the movement is here:
To visualize what it looks like from below, here is a diagram:
My cut would probably be more like this:
For the advancement, I have a deep bite and mildly recessed jaw. My chin is the most recessed part of my jaw, but to fix the deep bite I need BSSO anyway. If getting a bimax I may as well get a good amount of advancement for increased jaw robustness and improved breathing. I only want to advance the maxilla ~7mm at most as past a certain point (probably 10mm), it makes the philtrum region look too flat or "dogmaxxed".
The genioplasty would increase both chin width and prominence. Because of the split mandible, I think the custom plate used for the split genio can also be used as stability for the split mandible, similar to below:
I mention staircase genioplasty as it is more ideal in my opinion because there is bone contact below the split mandible would be. If it was just split in the middle, both the mandible and genio would have no touching bone in the middle which would be pretty unstable. The genio wouldn't make direct contact with the mandible because of the advancement but it would improve the plate setup. If this can be done by my surgeon then I will do it.
For the inframalars, the design would increase the width of my face and improve the 3/4 profile while also providing under-eye support which I'm currently lacking (causes darkening under eyes). My IPD is currently too high (about 48-48.5%) and the only way to fix that is OBO (definitely not worth it for my case) or increasing facial width. I think increasing facial width will work because I can increase the robustness of my inframalar region to match the changes to the jaw and also it will move my IPD into the higher end of the ideal range (I hope I can get to 47.5%). I'm pretty satisfied with my eye region but I do want to improve periorbital support and increase canthal tilt more. Also coloring can be improve which I'm working on as a separate task.
The inframalars would look similar to this. They may have less on the inner region so that lefort plates can be placed or they may have hollow sections underneath to accommodate the lefort plates:
Now for the jaw angles, this is the part with the most difficulty I'd say, just due to the stupidly high height increase that is needed to get into the masculine ideal range. My gonial angle is about 127 at the moment and I want to get to 115. The only way to do this to this degree is to get a tall jaw angle implant. Again as mentioned before the issue isn't really infection or misplacement but what I may expect is some level of masseter dehiscence. I think I've decided on just letting whatever happen and if it looks very bad I could get some fat grafting or filler or worst case scenario do a revision for a smaller implant or no implant at all and just rely on filler.
I want a design where the BSSO plate covers a good amount of the side to reduce the appearance of the gap defect on the side. When younger, your skin is thicker so it's harder to see the imperfections underneath, but I want to plan ahead of time for ageing. I like this design below (giant's) where the implant covers the gap left in the mandible from the BSSO. This is better than the combination BSSO plate-jaw angle design in my opinion because it can be revised while leaving the BSSO plate.
I think I'd like my design to use a custom BSSO strut, kind of like below, and then extend the implant beneath it with a slight gap, though it depends on what the surgeon can operate. Like below in blue:
You can see how much my ramus needs to increase in height to be ideal. I want it to extend to the second section of the mandible after the BSSO cut so it would be pretty long too. Below is a 15mm dropdown:
I expect some CCW of the mandible which would improve how the implant and actual mandible bone connect, so the jaw doesn't appear rounded or flat on the bottom. If you don't understand what this means, essentially the front of the mandible could be rotated counter-clockwise (from the above view) but the back would stay where it is. The jaw angle at the front would become flatter but it wouldn't at the back. This makes a tall dropdown jaw angle better instead of a wraparound. I don't mind a bit of an antegonial notch though.
There aren't many examples of tall jaw angle implants, eppley has one where I believe it was a 16-18mm vertical dropdown:
Because jaw angle implants don't have much surface to grab onto, I would personally prefer titanium. PEEK is a decent option as well but it has some flex as far as I know, and I don't want an implant to snap if I fall on the side of my face or get punched. I want to break someone's hand if they punch me instead. One issue is that my surgeon for osteotomies may not be able to place this, which would suck as I don't want to go under anesthesia and have swelling twice, but - it is what it is - if its the case.
Other Considerations
Filler is one option to replace the genio, jaw angles and inframalars. However, it is temporary, migrates, doesn't look as real as a solid implant or bone and is a subpar option to me. The only area I think it may make sense to use is the jaw angles, to add height where the implant doesn't (if it can not be made 15mm tall), however fat grafting could potentially be used instead.
For my supras, my brow ridge isn't terrible, but if I had supras I would want a dropdown design where it lowers my eyebrows slightly and improves my brow ridge. My issue with it is that it is another incision, either in the eyelid (which sketches me out) or a hairline incision if it is a large piece, which is bad for ageing and also may disrupt forehead muscles. I'm not sure if it is worth it and I'm thinking fat grafting will be enough.
Tracking Progress
I will be logging my progress and will give updates for my plan and surgeries as time goes on. I'm doing consults so I haven't got a surgeon I'm locked down with yet. Though for the inframalars/jaw angles I have a designer.
I don't want to post my face because I'm not trying to spin this into a social media thing, however I can share sections of my face with some areas blurred (the ones that didn't change for example). I'm serious about this plan and hope to get actual osteotomy planning underway this year after consults, then hopefully I can get the main changes done by the end of next year. Swelling would be pretty extreme so I will run a peptide recovery and osteogenic stack to mitigate the downtime.
One more thing for teeth I probably will get is composite bonding as my lateral incisors are rather small and it makes my central incisors stand out too much (but this doesn't really count as a hardmax).
My main inspo for pheno and ratios is ehren, he has a higher ipd and we have similar coloring. If you have any questions let me know.
Stay tunedem.
