Heightmaxers guide to androgenmaxing ( Pubertymaxers GTFIH )

[belisa14]

ass wtf are u doing

Less chance of unwanted affects of face. And AI alone will probably work imo. But it will obviously take years.

 

[belisa14]

Probably way earlier than, there's no way a year of continued use doesn't make some serious changes to your hormone equilibrium. Full disclosure I am just spitballing and intuiting though, I have no studies or anything to make me feel this way.

I do believe hormones adjust though, I think the main concern people using AIs long term should probably be worried about is missing out on key estrogen related development. If estrogen is required for brain maturation from puberty to adulthood for example, AIs might heavily stunt or prevent altogether this necessary growth. Then again maybe you'll just get the development after you stop. Who knows, this is really an unstudied frontier.

Yeah you’re absolutely right. I would just like to add something I think shares some relevance. (Memory is a bit faded, what I say isn’t 100% accurate to the study).

They tested nandrolone on young male rats and older rats. Basically both rats experienced aggressive behaviour. However when both groups were taken off the older rats went back to normal, but the young rats remained in that state even after they were taken off.

So I don’t think it’s as simple as “coming off and the brain will develop”. There’s probably a lot more to it.

 

[niggerslayer]

worth noting that AI genuinely has some great side effects if they align with what you're hoping to do (androgenmax). AI alone without test substitution raise your regular testosterone and also DHT for dick gains. Main risk is probably balding and brain damage (lol) with long term use.

Probably best to avoid long term use anyways, can't be good to mess with your hormones over long periods of time. A bit hypocritical of me to say since Ive been on Asin since july, but I think i'll be stopping for good in a month or two for example.

How do aromatise inhibators impair brain function? Can you provide a study or a source for these claims because any steroid drastically alters hormone levels/configuration, are you saying roids in general shouldn’t be fiddled with altogether? Taking them short term will not bring desired benefits.

 

[m0ss26]

Arimidex and mk677 rate this stack

at least pair a GHRH

 

[yirma19]

I know a lot of people on this forum are actively heightmaxing during puberty. Of course the goal being to increase dimorphism and mog others with height, but of course facial structure and overall masculine features can also be another element to dimorphism. The problem with using most common androgens such as testosterone injections in this case is that one way or another they will close the growth plates. Whether it be from the testosterone itself converting into E2 or when the user decides to PCT and use a SERM, which will almost certainly contribute heavily to plate closure. So I decided to dive into some research and see of ways to maximize androgens during puberty WITHOUT risking growth plate closure.
Takeaways: Popular PCTs such as Clomid and Nolvadex will directly contribute to plate closure.

Aromatase Inhibitors
Already a popular topic of discussion and essentially a critical piece of any heightmaxing protocol. Aromatase inhibitors alone will increase androgens by decreasing aromatization of testosterone to estrogen. This is common knowledge on the forum but of course if you want to avoid plate closure you'll want to deploy these. Personally I like Arimidex best, feel free to comment which AI you use and why, as this seems to be an unanswered debate on here of which AI is best.

Natural Boosters
Natural testosterone boosters are not cope, things like ashwaghanda, fadogia, tonkat ali, boron, zinc, will all yield very real effects on testosterone levels. Although not substantial it will cause noticeable differences in most cases especially used in conjunction with an AI. You can either buy these supplements individually or buy a booster that contains a combination of herbs and vitamins like gorilla mind sigma.

HCG
This is a very underutilized concept, I dont think any heightmaxers on here have tried HCG, but I think it is a key element for anyone who wants to have superphysiological levels of testosterone without closing their plates. Human Chronic Gonadotropin essentially replaces luteinizing hormone in the body and stimulates the testes to produce more testosterone. Above a certain dose ( which will vary from person to person ), HCG will overstimulate the testes and cause the body to produce more testosterone then it had been producing prior. HCG could be used alone to achieve desired testosterone levels, but can also be used in conjunction with other exogenous androgens to avoid suppression. This is the only drug to my knowledge that could hypothetically be used as a PCT / to avoid suppressing without shutting down the growth plates.
NOTE: HCG will in most doses increase estradiol, which is the hormone that closes plates, so it is imperative to deploy an AI whilst using this. There are also some problems with having a lack of LH as a result of HCG use as well as potential for thyroid growth from HCG.

DHT
The role of dihydrotestosterone in dimorphism is not fully understood, but what we know is that it is a highly potent androgen which is aromatized from testosterone via 5AR, and that it is responsible for voice depth, genital growth and facial hair. Its not clear whether it contributes to masculine facial structure but is certainly a favorable hormone for anyone trying to androgen max. DHT does not inherently increase estradiol or contribute to plate closure, however use of DHT gel, one of the most popular forms of DHT, will cause suppression of natural testosterone in the body, which is definitely not optimal for anyone puberty maxing. Higher testosterone will subsequently result in higher DHT. Use of topical DHT could be deployed alongside HCG to have high levels of both dht and testosterone without causing suppression.
NOTE: Depending on your genetic predispositions, having higher DHT may result in excess acne and hair loss, and in some rare cases prostate cancer.

DHT Derivatives
Certain DHT derivatives are popular in the bodybuilding world, used to put on muscle mass whilst decreasing water retention via their natural tendency to decrease aromatase activity. Some DHT derivatives include Proviron, Anavar, and Masteron. Proviron (Mesterolone) is highly similar to DHT in a chemical structure sense, its essentially oral dht with slightly different binding affinity. DHT derivatives will help dry up the body by burning fat and reducing water retention from their aromatase inhibition. These drugs are generally known to be suppressive to HPTA therefor would optimally be used in conjunction with HCG to avoid suppression and reduce the need of PCT. These drugs also have some strong mental side effects with regards to more masculine thinking and behavior.
NOTE: The binding affinity of DHT derivatives on the estrogen receptors is not fully understood, dht derivatives will bind to estrogen receptors but its not entirely clear how this would affect growth plates, so do approach this with caution as its not fully understood whether it has the potential to fuse plates.

Testosterone Replacement
This is perhaps the most risky option, however will most likely yield the highest results. One could inject testosterone of any ester ( preferably CYP injected ED to minimize aromatization ) and this could give the user extremely high and super physiological levels of testosterone. I do not recommend this for several reasons, HCG would be the only option for PCT, and HCG is not known to be incredibly reliable in the bodybuilding world at stimulating back natural production after a cycle. Another reason being that an AI would have to be used in extremely high doses to ensure that the user does not reach E2 levels that would close plates, and in this case the user would end up with a highly undesirably T:E ratio that would almost certainly cause lipid problems ( Yes, the ratio is responsible for some of the low estrogen side effects such as lipid damage, not just the sheer E2 levels ) in other words having 10pg/ml of e2 with 1500 ng/dl of testosterone is not at all the same as having 10pg e2 with 600 ng/dl of testosterone. I would not recommend this at all for heightmaxers.

Leave a comment if you have any questions or want to add anything / share experiences. Will be replying to all comments if you need help.

What about a dht derivative and a very low dose of test like 150mg? That way your test wont be nuked but it doesnt aromatize enough to cause plate closure (because of low dose Test and the dht derivative which should supress esteogen)
What do you think?

 

[Lethbridge]

How do aromatise inhibators impair brain function? Can you provide a study or a source for these claims because any steroid drastically alters hormone levels/configuration, are you saying roids in general shouldn’t be fiddled with altogether? Taking them short term will not bring desired benefits.

estrogen is neuroprotective and testosterone is neurotoxic when significantly raised. Just look at the connections between menopause and cognitive ability. I don't have studies but the logic is pretty sound.

I agree taking them short term seems a bit pointless but I think an additional 6 months - year of growth is probably not insignificant either. A best case scenario is probably to use for a bit before growth plates close but after most of your natural growth is achieved, around 17 or 18 for people. Its up to the individual to balance risk and reward as always.

 

[barnmatrix]

What about a dht derivative and a very low dose of test like 150mg? That way your test wont be nuked but it doesnt aromatize enough to cause plate closure (because of low dose Test and the dht derivative which should supress esteogen)
What do you think?

estrogen would still be average to above average levels with that dose of test, would need an AI, and the minute you pin test exogenously you will shut down your HPTA which can only be restored via plate fusing PCTs

 

[Osie]

estrogen is neuroprotective and testosterone is neurotoxic when significantly raised. Just look at the connections between menopause and cognitive ability. I don't have studies but the logic is pretty sound.

I agree taking them short term seems a bit pointless but I think an additional 6 months - year of growth is probably not insignificant either. A best case scenario is probably to use for a bit before growth plates close but after most of your natural growth is achieved, around 17 or 18 for people. Its up to the individual to balance risk and reward as always.

Well, you have to keep in mind how every individual is different. In studies like the aromatase-deficient men, they never noted any cognitive issues, which is strange since we all know the importance of estrogen for cognitive health.

So my unproven theory is that men can withstand lower e2 levels with less effects on their cognitive function than women, however, having the combination of the two (really high T but very low E) will most likely impair cognitive ability in subtle ways or big ways, we don't have enough research on it yet.

However, low estrogen can be specifically toxic for men or women if it comes at a time when there's a rapid downward shift in levels. Your body doesn't react well to a quick change in hormonal profile leading to a whole bunch of issues, so that's where AI can most definitely impair cognitive function.

 

[niggerslayer]

estrogen is neuroprotective and testosterone is neurotoxic when significantly raised. Just look at the connections between menopause and cognitive ability. I don't have studies but the logic is pretty sound.

I agree taking them short term seems a bit pointless but I think an additional 6 months - year of growth is probably not insignificant either. A best case scenario is probably to use for a bit before growth plates close but after most of your natural growth is achieved, around 17 or 18 for people. Its up to the individual to balance risk and reward as always.

Menopause does cause a slight, not a grand but a slight decrease in thought processing but I think it’s fair to say that it’s incomparable to ai usage. If you keep your dose to a minimum, (let’s say 6.25-12.5 mg every other day) then lay off post cycle you hypothetically shouldn’t encounter any problems. I’m currently 17 almost 18 and starting my first test cycle, paired/cycled with ai in the near future. I want to take it for about 2 years time to accumulate noticeable benefits as i’m still undergoing puberty. It’s now or never, and if I take a small dose for shorter cycles (8 weeks rather than 12) all should be well. Ai doesn’t give rise to negative effects unless you crash your estrogen, which will not occur unless you take the entire 25mg pill every day like an idiot. I’ll monitor how I’m feeling and lower my doses if needed.

 

[barnmatrix]

Well, you have to keep in mind how every individual is different. In studies like the aromatase-deficient men, they never noted any cognitive issues, which is strange since we all know the importance of estrogen for cognitive health.

So my unproven theory is that men can withstand lower e2 levels with less effects on their cognitive function than women, however, having the combination of the two (really high T but very low E) will most likely impair cognitive ability in subtle ways or big ways, we don't have enough research on it yet.

However, low estrogen can be specifically toxic for men or women if it comes at a time when there's a rapid downward shift in levels. Your body doesn't react well to a quick change in hormonal profile leading to a whole bunch of issues, so that's where AI can most definitely impair cognitive function.

Spot on with this. Ive said many times its not necessarily the E2 levels but rather the T:E ratio that will be indicative of damage and risk. I absolutely think men can withstand lower E2 levels thats probably not even a theory, women have naturally higher e2 than men so it makes total sense and men have stronger androgen profiles to make up for the lack of e2 in things like bone health.

 

[yirma19]

estrogen would still be average to above average levels with that dose of test, would need an AI, and the minute you pin test exogenously you will shut down your HPTA which can only be restored via plate fusing PCTs

Interesting, you sound like you know a lot about this. I most likely still have a bit of growth left but I also want to roid. What do you recommend?

 

[barnmatrix]

Interesting, you sound like you know a lot about this. I most likely still have a bit of growth left but I also want to roid. What do you recommend?

pm me on telegram @ officialmatt

 

[socram]

pm me on telegram @ officialmatt

You got disc? Id deadass cashapp u $20 to help me w heightmaxxing plan im 15 and hella eager to learn

 

[barnmatrix]

You got disc? Id deadass cashapp u $20 to help me w heightmaxxing plan im 15 and hella eager to learn

pm me on here

 

[MEGA CHAD]

they repeat the same shit since 2019

 

[Osie]

they repeat the same shit since 2019

Pretty hard to find anything new and interesting to talk about. And it's not like people are going to re-read those old forums anyway so might as well, re do them in a more modern context.

 

[barnmatrix]

Pretty hard to find anything new and interesting to talk about. And it's not like people are going to re-read those old forums anyway so might as well, re do them in a more modern context.

Great point Osie. New studies come out every year too and theres always a potential to make new discoveries.

 

[Napoleon1800]

dont do EOD thats your problem just break it in half and do 0.5 ED for more consistency.

Why

 

[barnmatrix]

Why

levels will be more consistent.

 

[Napoleon1800]

levels will be more consistent.

Is 1mg ED fine do u think?

 

[barnmatrix]

Is 1mg ED fine do u think?

Way too broad of a question for me to answer. Do blood tests, look at your levels and see what dose gives you what response, then titrate your dose accordingly till you reach your desired estrodiol levels.

 

[Napoleon1800]

Way too broad of a question for me to answer. Do blood tests, look at your levels and see what dose gives you what response, then titrate your dose accordingly till you reach your desired estrodiol levels.

Year ur right it's all individual. 1mg is the standard dosing but some people don't respond well to it

 

[Kamui]

0

 

[socram]

worth noting that AI genuinely has some great side effects if they align with what you're hoping to do (androgenmax). AI alone without test substitution raise your regular testosterone and also DHT for dick gains. Main risk is probably balding and brain damage (lol) with long term use.

Probably best to avoid long term use anyways, can't be good to mess with your hormones over long periods of time. A bit hypocritical of me to say since Ive been on Asin since july, but I think i'll be stopping for good in a month or two for example.

would aromasin for 6 months be considered long term use, brain damange...

 

[PEking]

Secret to height growth is AI + DHT gel + HGH.

 

[barnmatrix]

would aromasin for 6 months be considered long term use, brain damange...

long term is usually 1-2 years

 

[barnmatrix]

Secret to height growth is AI + DHT gel + HGH.

dht gel wont do anything for vertical height
edit: of the body

 

[dsheppa]

Should I even bother with any of this at 17?

 

[Dele Alli Regen]

Should I even bother with any of this at 17?

depends if ur plates are open or not. i’m almost 18 but plates are open so i’m doing it.

 

[dsheppa]

depends if ur plates are open or not. i’m almost 18 but plates are open so i’m doing it.

I’m not doing it for height tho, I mean for like facial structure. I want to inject test for better face structure but I’m worried about negative facial aging.

 

[truecel12]

horrible idea, sarms can fuse plates

what would be your reasoning for this?
from what ive seen, sarms dont aromatize and heavily suppress natural androgen secretion to the point where balding bodybuilders take sarms to tank their natural androgens and taking oral estradiol to stop/slow balding.

 

[barnmatrix]

what would be your reasoning for this?
from what ive seen, sarms dont aromatize and heavily suppress natural androgen secretion to the point where balding bodybuilders take sarms to tank their natural androgens and taking oral estradiol to stop/slow balding.

Some sarms will interact with the estrogen receptor, theyre also all suppressive and would require PCT as a result.