Tai Lung
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Lips - not downward anymore and became normal
Gonions (jaw angles) - became more wider
Cheekbones - became more visible
What caused it?
Surgery done by Raffaini
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Stretching out soft tissue i think.View attachment 2813335
Lips - not downward anymore and became normal
Gonions (jaw angles) - became more wider
Cheekbones - became more visible
What caused it?
Surgery done by Raffaini
does this naturally happen during the surgery or surgeon needs to adjust them ?Stretching out soft tissue i think.
Downturned and narrow lips are often the result of poor bone structure which can’t hold the soft tissue. So he might got something for that too, maybe some implants.does this naturally happen during the surgery or surgeon needs to adjust them ?
he didnt get implants, this surgery was done by Raffaini, he doesnt do implants.Downturned and narrow lips are often the result of poor bone structure which can’t hold the soft tissue. So he might got something for that too, maybe some implants.
As for the wider gonions, bimax can widen them to a certain extent.
Where does raffaini operate?he didnt get implants, this surgery was done by Raffaini, he doesnt do implants.
Here his comment on what he did:
View attachment 2813455
Parma, ItalyWhere does raffaini operate?
I need bimax too, because of recessed jaws. I might get the surgery for free here in the Netherlands if I test positive on sleep apnea. But I’m concerned the surgeon is only focused on medical purposes and not aesthetics wise.Parma, Italy
Im getting bimax aswell, but i have trouble finding the ortho willing to decompensate the teeth for the surgery, most of them are completely lost and dont even understand what is a jaw surgery, the ones who are got queues of 4 months. So adjusting the teeth gonnaI need bimax too, because of recessed jaws. I might get the surgery for free here in the Netherlands if I test positive on sleep apnea. But I’m concerned the surgeon is only focused on medical purposes and not aesthetics wise.
Hopefully i don’t have to do orthodontic stuff before my jaw surgery. Would take too much time. Getting the surgery alone would take a lot of time. Shit is brutal. All this pain and effort for a normal jaw, life is hell. But hopefully worth it at the end.Im getting bimax aswell, but i have trouble finding the ortho willing to decompensate the teeth for the surgery, most of them are completely lost and dont even understand what is a jaw surgery, the ones who are got queues of 4 months. So adjusting the teeth gonna
be the hardest part in my case. Hopefully wont take longer than one year.
it wont take much time if u getting surgery first, maybe like 5-6 months unless your surgeon has high queues.Hopefully i don’t have to do orthodontic stuff before my jaw surgery. Would take too much time. Getting the surgery alone would take a lot of time. Shit is brutal. All this pain and effort for a normal jaw, life is hell. But hopefully worth it at the end.
Are you going to get your surgery done in your own country?it wont take much time if u getting surgery first, maybe like 5-6 months unless your surgeon has high queues.
But probably u gonna need to decompensate, i doubt bluepilled surgeon gonna do surgery first on u.
Not sure, depending on queue times, there is only one surgeon in my country so the queues are very high. But he is pretty good, seen the results also trained by Gunson.Are you going to get your surgery done in your own country?
Alright good luck with your surgery procedure.Not sure, depending on queue times, there is only one surgeon in my country so the queues are very high. But he is pretty good, seen the results also trained by Gunson.
View attachment 2813335
Lips - not downward anymore and became normal
Gonions (jaw angles) - became more wider
Cheekbones - became more visible
What caused it?
Surgery done by Raffaini
For sleep apnea you‘ll get 1cm advancement. There are aesthetical surgeons everywhereI need bimax too, because of recessed jaws. I might get the surgery for free here in the Netherlands if I test positive on sleep apnea. But I’m concerned the surgeon is only focused on medical purposes and not aesthetics wise.
1 cm is nothing….For sleep apnea you‘ll get 1cm advancement. There are aesthetical surgeons everywhere
Ccw rotation widens lips? Just curious where did you hear this?It's typical for a well-executed bimax by a top-tier surgeon not to focus solely on maxillary and mandibular osteotomy with CCW rotation of the occlusion. It also includes support for the lips, enhancement of the paralateral nasal area, and a sharper definition of the mandibular edge. Additionally, it can incorporate an elongated genioplasty that extends posteriorly to the mandibular angles. At least, this is the form of Bimax + Genio you can find with Ramieri, known as the Beauty-full Chin. However, these questions should really be directed to @RealSurgerymax I can only offer a personal interpretation of what I've understood, having studied other things in life.
That's heaps, you have to be majorly recessedto get 1cm of bsso. Plus you can get genio on top1 cm is nothing….
1cm is allot, you probably just don‘t know anything about surgery1 cm is nothing….
I didn't say that. What I said is that a well-done bimax, in addition to the osteotomy of both jaws with a CCW rotation of the occlusion, involves a more holistic approach that brings a range of additional benefits, including, as I highlighted in my previous message, lip support.Ccw rotation widens lips? Just curious where did you hear this?
??? The notable change is that they no longer point downwards.widens lips
Yeah you’re right. I thought you were saying 1mm lol.1cm is allot, you probably just don‘t know anything about surgery
My surgeon decides whetever he wanna do functional surgery or aesthetical surgery. Functional being fixing sleep apnea by giving you more space to breath (advancing mandible), or just fixing malocclusion without changing the face too much.Yeah you’re right. I thought you were saying 1mm lol.
But idk if they will move it 1cm. I have sleep apnea. My problem is: sfs with recession.
I’m getting tested for sleep apnea. If i test positive my insurance will cover the costs. But i don’t want the surgery for medical purposes only. I want aesthetics results. So yeah i will definitely tell him.My surgeon decides whetever he wanna do functional surgery or aesthetical surgery. Functional being fixing sleep apnea by giving you more space to breath (advancing mandible), or just fixing malocclusion without changing the face too much.
When you meet him tell him you‘re very aethetics orientated, then secretely judge his skills by asking before and afters from his patients, if you‘re happy with them, go for it
Go in ItalyI’m getting tested for sleep apnea. If i test positive my insurance will cover the costs. But i don’t want the surgery for medical purposes only. I want aesthetics results. So yeah i will definitely tell him.
I live in the Netherlands. Can’t pay the surgery in Italy.Go in Italy
don’t you are the richest in Europe?I live in the Netherlands. Can’t pay the surgery in Italy.
I’m broke asf.don’t you are the richest in Europe?
No I live hereI’m broke asf.
Did you got surgeries in italy?
I heard pagoni is goodNo I live here
Raffaini/Pagnoni/Ramieri all of them are goodI heard pagoni is good
Giga based high iq user. I wouldn’t waste my time though, there is a constant influx of low iq surgery cells that thinks money will solve all their problems.look at the difference between the starting point of the SFS on the left and severe downgrown Class II aka birdcel on the right. the end result of the guy on the left is going to have robust mandible, the guy on the right is still going to have shitty, weak downgrown mandible, just rotated and
elongated
View attachment 2826178
but you assume that they have the same starting position and it's just the surgeon's skill and "experience" that gets the results
after:
View attachment 2826179
Can you see why the one is going to look better than the other and it just isn't about the surgeon (considering it's the same surgeon)?
i agree but do you mind elaborating on what exactly you mean by poor bone structure? I think it’s a matter of the chin not being long enough or tall enough, palate not being wide enough, upper lip/teeth being too far forward in front of lower lip/teethDownturned and narrow lips are often the result of poor bone structure which can’t hold the soft tissue.
what causes the increased support for the lips?also includes support for the lips, enhancement of the paralateral nasal area, and a sharper definition of the mandibular edge
i’m very curious what causes downward lips and what exactly contributed to the fix of this issue in the OP?The notable change is that they no longer point downwards.
Repositioning the jawbones can change the tension and support structures around the mouth area, leading to a more supported and potentially aesthetically pleasing lip position.what causes the increased support for the lips?
This term isn't commonly used in medical literature. In facial aesthetic procedures, improving this area could involve reshaping the structures near the nose to create a more harmonious and balanced facial appearance. This can include modifying the cheeks, filling in nasolabial folds, or lifting the mid-facial areas.What is paralateral nasal area, looked it up couldn’t find something helpful
Sharper definition of the mandibular edge can result from both anterior (towards the chin) and posterior (towards the back) modifications. Orthognathic surgery and genioplasty can reshape the jaw and chin, enhancing the jawline's contour and definition.sharper definition of mandibular edge towards the chin or towards the back of the mandible?
Downward-facing lips can result from various causes, including the position of the jaws, the tension of soft tissues, and the facial muscle structure. In orthognathic surgery, correcting these lips can come from realigning the jaws and advancing the chin, which can change the tension and support of the soft tissues, leading to a more balanced and symmetrical appearance of the lips.i’m very curious what causes downward lips and what exactly contributed to the fix of this issue in the OP?
would genio alone fix this?
is it from horizontal advancement of the chin or vertical? i think it may be bothIn orthognathic surgery, correcting these lips can come from realigning the jaws and advancing the chin,
Yeah, the effect on the lips can result from both horizontal and vertical advancement of the chin. Horizontal advancement reduces tension on the muscles that pull the lips down, while vertical enhancement might stretch and thereby lessen the strength of the depressor muscles, leading to less downward-turning lipsis it from horizontal advancement of the chin or vertical? i think it may be both
see my theory here
Post in thread 'Is a sliding genio necessary with bimax + ccw?'
https://looksmax.org/threads/is-a-sliding-genio-necessary-with-bimax-ccw.973091/post-15150193