How tf does jaw get aligned after CCW bimax..

[NarcyChadlite]

Quick qs.. i just found out about these procedures and obvs. the stamdard double jaw advamcement is simple and bite remains the same..

but..

If the lefort portion of bimax/double jaw is CCW ROTATED.. how the actual fuck is the lower jaw rotated to match the horizontal plane of the bite??
Is thr bsso somehow ccw rotated as well or does shit just magocally align with braces??

@DatGuyYouLike .. answer this boyo.. theres no hope with the current state of replies

 

[Deleted member 7725]

Simple angles. When an object rotates counter clockwise it extends horizontally.

 

[NarcyChadlite]

Simple angles. When an object rotates counter clockwise it extends horizontally.

The qs was how does the lower jaw follow that rotation to align the bite after ccw lefort... so that after bimax the patient dosent have back molars in contact but gap in front teeth.. since theres been CCW rotation of maxilla

 

[Deleted member 7125]

Just pray to Gandy bro, works for me

 

[ScramFranklin]

The mandible can be rotated as well. If you see patients who had a downward grown jaw, then after their surgery, it's more horizontal, they had CCW rotation of the mandible. You can even have CW rotation of one jaw, and CCW rotation of the other.

But more often than not, non 1:1 movements and rotations of the jaws need BRACES. That's your answer.

 

[MentalistKebab]

Quick qs.. i just found out about these procedures and obvs. the stamdard double jaw advamcement is simple and bite remains the same..

but..

If the lefort portion of bimax/double jaw is CCW ROTATED.. how the actual fuck is the lower jaw rotated to match the horizontal plane of the bite??
Is thr bsso somehow ccw rotated as well or does shit just magocally align with braces??

@DatGuyYouLike .. answer this boyo.. theres no hope with the current state of replies

Its cuz mandible can move freely, duh.

Probably it can follow the maxilla without bsso if you only do a small lefort advancement

 

[Deleted member 7725]

The qs was how does the lower jaw follow that rotation to align the bite after ccw lefort... so that after bimax the patient dosent have back molars in contact but gap in front teeth.. since theres been CCW rotation of maxilla

The entire upper jaw is moved forward and up. At that point it’s simple angles as I said which rotate to accommodate the movement.

 

[Deleted member 7725]

The mandible can be rotated as well. If you see patients who had a downward grown jaw, then after their surgery, it's more horizontal, they had CCW rotation of the mandible. You can even have CW rotation of one jaw, and CCW rotation of the other.

But more often than not, non 1:1 movements and rotations of the jaws need BRACES. That's your answer.

Why would you need surgical CCW rotation of the mandible? Is that even a thing? The mandible is a freely moving joint. When you move the maxilla up the mandible follows.

 

[NarcyChadlite]

Its cuz mandible can move freely, duh.

Probably it can follow the maxilla without bsso if you only do a small lefort advancement

Not so simple.. ScramFranklin was right... not as simple as just the jaw being able to swing.. if the case requires an angular cut + advancement or if the maxilla is literallly ccw rotatad before screws it would require a slight ccw bsso + probably braces too.

 

[NarcyChadlite]

Why would you need surgical CCW rotation of the mandible? Is that even a thing? The mandible is a freely moving joint. When you move the maxilla up the mandible follows.

To ascent with that level of downward growth + recession ....just advancing the downward titled (his bite will also be sloped if the smiles) maxilla aint enough. This is where ccw (or CW in pictures facing left) is performed for a more ante looking face. If the BSSO isnt ccw rotated proportionally, his back molars will be in contact but his front teeth will have a gap (because the ramus will not magically grow downwards to align w/ the plane

 

[yorker12]

Its cuz mandible can move freely, duh.

Probably it can follow the maxilla without bsso if you only do a small lefort advancement

Its called mandible autorotation.

I am getting crazy lower jaw forward movement because of that from sarpe.

The lower jaw moves forward because of the widening of palate and ccw rotation.

 

[NarcyChadlite]

Its called mandible autorotation.

I am getting crazy lower jaw forward movement because of that from sarpe.

The lower jaw moves forward because of the widening of palate and ccw rotation.

I get what youre saying but maxilla swinging forward with the font experienceing most movement and the back of maxilla being stationary is different that what i was wondering in cases where the ccw rotation brings back of maxilla downwards than it was originally and front of maxilla upwards.. basically back anchored pivoting vs centre -anchored pivoting.

How old r u btw... i thought sarpe was cope no?

 

[yorker12]

I get what youre saying but maxilla swinging forward with the font experienceing most movement and the back of maxilla being stationary is different that what i was wondering in cases where the ccw rotation brings back of maxilla downwards than it was originally and front of maxilla upwards.. basically back anchored pivoting vs centre -anchored pivoting.

How old r u btw... i thought sarpe was cope no?

My surgeon is expecting ccw and extra midface expansion because my palatal suture is cracked open, which enables me to get actual changes from mewing.
Combined with my expander shape, which is skeletally anchored, and sits so that the back of my tongue when I mew/swallow pushes up on it, I can get some reasonable results. My surgeon/ortho have their reasons for why they don't use MSE.

Combine that with overbite correction + mandible autorotation, my lower jaw has already moved forward a noticeable amount.

My surgeon says I have well developed and forward grown jaws, but my upper jaw is a bit narrow and my chin is downwards grown, so I don't need full bimax, just SARPE and genio.

I am not subhuman enough for me to feel the need for full bimax or specifically seeking MSE, bimax being expensive + hard recovery period and MSE just being more expensive to get.
I got braces + sarpe + wisdom teeth extraction + genio(in like 8 months) for under 4k

Lets be clear that MSE is just as cope as SARPE, theyre not gonna ascend you or anything, its just maxillary/midface expansion, but in the right circumstances it can be a good looksmax for certain peoples falios.

Also I got SARPE mainly for functional/nose breathing reasons since because of certain medical conditions I mouth breathed until I was 16 , my upper jaw grew narrow, but the aesthetic changes from SARPE are already somewhat visible and I like them.

I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH, IT IS SO NICE TO TAKE A FULL FAST DEEP BREATH THROUGH YOUR NOSE WITHOUT FEELING ANY RESISTANCE IN YOUR NOSE, it feels like my nose has been unstuffed for the first time, like when you take a booger out and it feels easier to breathe, but that permanently, if you have a hard time nosebreathing while doing cardio, seriously go to a maxfac.

I am 21 btw

 

[NarcyChadlite]

My surgeon is expecting ccw and extra midface expansion because my palatal suture is cracked open, which enables me to get actual changes from mewing.
Combined with my expander shape, which is skeletally anchored, and sits so that the back of my tongue when I mew/swallow pushes up on it, I can get some reasonable results. My surgeon/ortho have their reasons for why they don't use MSE.

Combine that with overbite correction + mandible autorotation, my lower jaw has already moved forward a noticeable amount.

My surgeon says I have well developed and forward grown jaws, but my upper jaw is a bit narrow and my chin is downwards grown, so I don't need full bimax, just SARPE and genio.

I am not subhuman enough for me to feel the need for full bimax or specifically seeking MSE, bimax being expensive + hard recovery period and MSE just being more expensive to get.
I got braces + sarpe + wisdom teeth extraction + genio(in like 8 months) for under 4k

Lets be clear that MSE is just as cope as SARPE, theyre not gonna ascend you or anything, its just maxillary/midface expansion, but in the right circumstances it can be a good looksmax for certain peoples falios.

Also I got SARPE mainly for functional/nose breathing reasons since because of certain medical conditions I mouth breathed until I was 16 , my upper jaw grew narrow, but the aesthetic changes from SARPE are already somewhat visible and I like them.

I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH, IT IS SO NICE TO TAKE A FULL FAST DEEP BREATH THROUGH YOUR NOSE WITHOUT FEELING ANY RESISTANCE IN YOUR NOSE, it feels like my nose has been unstuffed for the first time, like when you take a booger out and it feels easier to breathe, but that permanently, if you have a hard time nosebreathing while doing cardio, seriously go to a maxfac.

I am 21 btw

Sounds legit for airway and bite issue correction. im assuming you got a short ramus as well ??(rare to see vetically grown chin yet a good gonail angle).. if your SARPE doesnet hella upswing the mandible, youd still want a good ramus and gonial angle no? why not go for a chin wing at that point or genio +bigonial implants if that works better.. just curious tbh.

 

[yorker12]

Sounds legit for airway and bite issue correction. im assuming you got a short ramus as well ??(rare to see vetically grown chin yet a good gonail angle).. if your SARPE doesnet hella upswing the mandible, youd still want a good ramus and gonial angle no? why not go for a chin wing at that point or genio +bigonial implants if that works better.. just curious tbh.

I tried to measure it, its 7-8cm, my whole jawline is around 18-20cm (the A line)

, gonial angle is 120-130 degrees. Keep in mind these are really scuffed measurements, but my surgeon did mention I huge jaws with really hard bone(I had been mewing + megadosing K2, C and supplementmaxxing for like 2 years) which made it harder for him to cut my jaw.

I am still deciding what to do with my down-grown chin. I have thought of either BSSO or IMDO + genio or just genio alone.
Chin wing makes your chin rounder, which is what I don't want, but I was planning on asking my surgeon if he has any experience with chin wings. Since I speak Russian and it's one of the cheaper travel destinations for me, I also though about contacting Andrieschev(don't remember his correct spelling) and getting his opinion. Next week I am getting projections/simulations of how my chin will look after 4,6,8mm genio advancement,

As for implants, I would like to move bones first and then deciding if I want/need implants.

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

My surgeon is expecting ccw and extra midface expansion because my palatal suture is cracked open, which enables me to get actual changes from mewing.
Combined with my expander shape, which is skeletally anchored, and sits so that the back of my tongue when I mew/swallow pushes up on it, I can get some reasonable results. My surgeon/ortho have their reasons for why they don't use MSE.

Combine that with overbite correction + mandible autorotation, my lower jaw has already moved forward a noticeable amount.

My surgeon says I have well developed and forward grown jaws, but my upper jaw is a bit narrow and my chin is downwards grown, so I don't need full bimax, just SARPE and genio.

I am not subhuman enough for me to feel the need for full bimax or specifically seeking MSE, bimax being expensive + hard recovery period and MSE just being more expensive to get.
I got braces + sarpe + wisdom teeth extraction + genio(in like 8 months) for under 4k

Lets be clear that MSE is just as cope as SARPE, theyre not gonna ascend you or anything, its just maxillary/midface expansion, but in the right circumstances it can be a good looksmax for certain peoples falios.

Also I got SARPE mainly for functional/nose breathing reasons since because of certain medical conditions I mouth breathed until I was 16 , my upper jaw grew narrow, but the aesthetic changes from SARPE are already somewhat visible and I like them.

I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH, IT IS SO NICE TO TAKE A FULL FAST DEEP BREATH THROUGH YOUR NOSE WITHOUT FEELING ANY RESISTANCE IN YOUR NOSE, it feels like my nose has been unstuffed for the first time, like when you take a booger out and it feels easier to breathe, but that permanently, if you have a hard time nosebreathing while doing cardio, seriously go to a maxfac.

I am 21 btw

where did you get a omfs to give you that for under 4k?

 

[debuff]

Quick qs.. i just found out about these procedures and obvs. the stamdard double jaw advamcement is simple and bite remains the same..

but..

If the lefort portion of bimax/double jaw is CCW ROTATED.. how the actual fuck is the lower jaw rotated to match the horizontal plane of the bite??
Is thr bsso somehow ccw rotated as well or does shit just magocally align with braces??

@DatGuyYouLike .. answer this boyo.. theres no hope with the current state of replies

watch the animation in this video it's pretty clear

 

[Deleted member 17244]

watch the animation in this video it's pretty clear

this is cope, her gonial angle and downward grown stay the same, just she got a stronger jawline

 

[Deleted member 2729]

My surgeon is expecting ccw and extra midface expansion because my palatal suture is cracked open, which enables me to get actual changes from mewing.
Combined with my expander shape, which is skeletally anchored, and sits so that the back of my tongue when I mew/swallow pushes up on it, I can get some reasonable results. My surgeon/ortho have their reasons for why they don't use MSE.

Combine that with overbite correction + mandible autorotation, my lower jaw has already moved forward a noticeable amount.

My surgeon says I have well developed and forward grown jaws, but my upper jaw is a bit narrow and my chin is downwards grown, so I don't need full bimax, just SARPE and genio.

I am not subhuman enough for me to feel the need for full bimax or specifically seeking MSE, bimax being expensive + hard recovery period and MSE just being more expensive to get.
I got braces + sarpe + wisdom teeth extraction + genio(in like 8 months) for under 4k

Lets be clear that MSE is just as cope as SARPE, theyre not gonna ascend you or anything, its just maxillary/midface expansion, but in the right circumstances it can be a good looksmax for certain peoples falios.

Also I got SARPE mainly for functional/nose breathing reasons since because of certain medical conditions I mouth breathed until I was 16 , my upper jaw grew narrow, but the aesthetic changes from SARPE are already somewhat visible and I like them.

I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH, IT IS SO NICE TO TAKE A FULL FAST DEEP BREATH THROUGH YOUR NOSE WITHOUT FEELING ANY RESISTANCE IN YOUR NOSE, it feels like my nose has been unstuffed for the first time, like when you take a booger out and it feels easier to breathe, but that permanently, if you have a hard time nosebreathing while doing cardio, seriously go to a maxfac.

I am 21 btw

How I know if I need sarpe

 

[bobsmith03]

The mandible can be rotated as well. If you see patients who had a downward grown jaw, then after their surgery, it's more horizontal, they had CCW rotation of the mandible. You can even have CW rotation of one jaw, and CCW rotation of the other.

But more often than not, non 1:1 movements and rotations of the jaws need BRACES. That's your answer.

so you can have ccw of just the mandible?

 

[bobsmith03]

this is cope, her gonial angle and downward grown stay the same, just she got a stronger jawline

yeah facts. I need to decrease my mandible plane angle by 10 degrees atleast.

 

[ScramFranklin]

so you can have ccw of just the mandible?

Yes

 

[bobsmith03]

Yes

but wouldnt the bite get messed up if you change position/rotation. my bite is perfect rn but I have slight asymmetry in lower jaw/facial torsion. i need ccw of mandible to fix downward growth

 

[ScramFranklin]

Teeth are usually adjusted so your bite is good after the surgery. My bite is good too and I’m getting CCW of my mandible next year. Maxilla being moved 8-10mm and mandible 10-12mm

 

[longjohnmong]

so you can have ccw of just the mandible?

not unless there's some discrepancy between the angle of the lower and upper teeth, otherwise you'd create a discrepancy.