Human/Animal sentience is a bullshit pseudoscience

[disillusioned]

What the fuck even makes humans 'sentient' and animals 'non-sentient'? Supposedly humans can use reason but I'm not seeing that in most people. Most are NPCs following their instincts.

I think sentience is just another bluepill pseudoscience. If advanced aliens landed on Earth, they could use the same logic we use against animals to argue we're not sentient compared to the aliens because of the intelligence disparity.

Humans: "Chimps are smarter than shrimps, but that doesn't make chimps sentient."
Also humans: "Humans are smarter than chimps, and that makes us sentient."
Aliens: "Humans are smarter than chimps, but that doesn't make them sentient."

See how this is all bullshit?

 

[Moggie]

 

[BearBoy]

People are blinded by their desires and their lack of control. Even if a man knows about blackpill he can still be a cuck and try to ignore that reality

It is like fooling a blind man into holding your hand to cross the street but instead he holds your cock

 

[disillusioned]

People are blinded by their desires and their lack of control. Even if a man knows about blackpill he can still be a cuck and try to ignore that reality

It is like fooling a blind man into holding your hand to cross the street but instead he holds your cock

My point was that there isn't any objective metric for determining when somebody is 'sentient' or not.

Consider the fact that the average chimp IQ is believed to be between 40-50. Now consider that the top 1% highest IQ humans have IQ in the 130-140 range, vs the bottom 1% who are like like 70 something IQ. The IQ difference between the smartest and dumbest humans is bigger compared to chimp Vs human. Does this mean the dumbest humans are not sentient?

 

[ambiguous]

like the average thick headed double thinking normie isn't just an animal ruled by their instincts. sentience is looked down upon in our society neurotic self conscious people are looked down upon nobody admires sentience its seen as a disability to be overcome.

 

[Magical Apple]

What the fuck even makes humans 'sentient' and animals 'non-sentient'? Supposedly humans can use reason but I'm not seeing that in most people. Most are NPCs following their instincts.

I think sentience is just another bluepill pseudoscience. If advanced aliens landed on Earth, they could use the same logic we use against animals to argue we're not sentient compared to the aliens because of the intelligence disparity.

Humans: "Chimps are smarter than shrimps, but that doesn't make chimps sentient."
Also humans: "Humans are smarter than chimps, and that makes us sentient."
Aliens: "Humans are smarter than chimps, but that doesn't make them sentient."

See how this is all bullshit?

humans have passed a cognitive singularity that other animals have not. This singularity allows us to think in abstractions and analogies and gives us the ability to share knowledge and maintain an abstract idea of self. A being that has passed another singularity will likely see normal humans as non-sapient animals.

A chimp will never be able to understand mathematics, analogies, metaphors, and even simple abstract logic. While these abilities seem mundane and obvious to us, to other animals they are the equivalent of divine enlightenment.

 

[Magical Apple]

My point was that there isn't any objective metric for determining when somebody is 'sentient' or not.

Consider the fact that the average chimp IQ is believed to be between 40-50. Now consider that the top 1% highest IQ humans have IQ in the 130-140 range, vs the bottom 1% who are like like 70 something IQ. The IQ difference between the smartest and dumbest humans is bigger compared to chimp Vs human. Does this mean the dumbest humans are not sentient?

Being smart isn't just about thinking more, it's also about thinking differently. Even dumb humans think very differently than chimpanzees. This is why even retards can speak and monkeys cannot. High-IQ people think more than other humans but for the most part, use the same methods of thought. Even a squirrel thinking at lightspeed given a billion years will not be able to generate the mathematics of relativity.

And yes, people with very severe brain damage are not sapient.

 

[ihatereddit]

AI will mog humanity within the decade whether it's sentient or not doesn't matter as long as it can outperform human niggas

 

[Deleted member 15067]

This is legit the most retarded user on this forum lol I’m dead

 

[Psychophilly]

Language is what makes beings sentient, humans are delusional at this point, because some animals have somewhat complex language.

 

[Deleted member 8365]

What the fuck even makes humans 'sentient' and animals 'non-sentient'? Supposedly humans can use reason but I'm not seeing that in most people. Most are NPCs following their instincts.

I think sentience is just another bluepill pseudoscience. If advanced aliens landed on Earth, they could use the same logic we use against animals to argue we're not sentient compared to the aliens because of the intelligence disparity.

Humans: "Chimps are smarter than shrimps, but that doesn't make chimps sentient."
Also humans: "Humans are smarter than chimps, and that makes us sentient."
Aliens: "Humans are smarter than chimps, but that doesn't make them sentient."

See how this is all bullshit?

Ngl you are HIGH IQ

 

[Deleted member 8365]

like the average thick headed double thinking normie isn't just an animal ruled by their instincts. sentience is looked down upon in our society neurotic self conscious people are looked down upon nobody admires sentience its seen as a disability to be overcome.

High iq

 

[Deleted member 8365]

This is legit the most retarded user on this forum lol I’m dead

Arguments ?

 

[buckchadley31]

High iq

You're low IQ so this seems high IQ for u

 

[Deleted member 8365]

You're low IQ so this seems high IQ for u

I IQ MOG you to hell and back

 

[Deleted member 21716]

This is legit the most retarded user on this forum lol I’m dead

Ikr, I study marine biology and majoring in biology and reading this post made me cage

 

[buckchadley31]

I IQ MOG you to hell and back

OK hamid

 

[Deleted member 8365]

OK hamid

Ok Aghiles

 

[Deleted member 21716]

Arguments ?

Dude no one in science says chimps are non sentient we just have greater degree of sentience than chimps. Elephants are almost as sentient as us. Non sentient animals are like sponges or placozoans that are not equipped with a conscious. It's simple to understand.

 

[Orc]

chimps and most of our other relatives pass all of the tests designed for components of consciousness, they're a bad example.

there are metrics for this, it's not just guesswork, but there's a few flaws, the golden standard we have for consciousness is the mirror test.

 

[gribsufer1]

we arent smart enough to know how smart animals are

 

[Deleted member 8365]

Dude no one in science says chimps are non sentient we just have greater degree of sentience than chimps. Elephants are almost as sentient as us. Non sentient animals are like sponges or placozoans that are not equipped with a conscious. It's simple to understand.

Ok but most people think that only humans are sentient lol

 

[Deleted member 20631]

Ikr, I study marine biology and majoring in biology and reading this post made me cage

Mirin marine biology, would love to study that shit if a career in it was realistic for me

 

[Orc]

Dude no one in science says chimps are non sentient we just have greater degree of sentience than chimps. Elephants are almost as sentient as us. Non sentient animals are like sponges or placozoans that are not equipped with a conscious. It's simple to understand.

there are no 'degrees of sentience' you either are, or you are not.

Ok but most people think that only humans are sentient lol

the same people use terms to refer to animals that require sentience, for example, an animal that isn't conscious can't feel pain, because pain is a subjective experience that's formed in the brain, it's an afterthought to stimuli that already happened.

 

[Deleted member 21716]

Ok but most people think that only humans are sentient lol

I get that but just because many people believe only humans are sentient that does not mean the idea of sentience is all bullshit it just mean most people are uneducated. There was a time when most people believed the Earth was flat.

 

[Deleted member 21716]

there are no 'degrees of sentience' you either are, or you are not.

the same people use terms to refer to animals that require sentience, for example, an animal that isn't conscious can't feel pain, because pain is a subjective experience that's formed in the brain, it's an afterthought to stimuli that already happened.

There are different degrees of sentience dumbass. I am literally majoring in biology.

There are plenty of aspects of sentience that come in degrees: for example, the intensity, duration, complexity, or precision of an experience; the number of qualitatively distinct experiences an organism is able to have;

https://www.wellbeingintlstudiesrepository.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1607&context=animsent

 

[Deleted member 8365]

I get that but just because many people believe only humans are sentient that does not mean the idea of sentience is all bullshit it just mean most people are uneducated.

yes exactly

There was a time when most people believed the Earth was flat.

 

[Orc]

There are different degrees of sentience dumbass. I am literally majoring in biology.

There are plenty of aspects of sentience that come in degrees: for example, the intensity, duration, complexity, or precision of an experience; the number of qualitatively distinct experiences an organism is able to have;

https://www.wellbeingintlstudiesrepository.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1607&context=animsent

feel free to name the levels of sentience, they don't exist, there's only components of the same thing.

most of the 'science' done on this topic was performed by an autist that also invented hugboxes for cows and talks with monkeys.

 

[Tusseleif]

Humans are retarded

 

[Deleted member 17578]

Aliens with interstellar travel-capabilities will consider us worthless animals with 0 value.
No different than how we look at a cow in the field. This is true.

But what does it matter

 

[Deleted member 21716]

feel free to name the levels of sentience, they don't exist, there's only components of the same thing.

most of the 'science' done on this topic was performed by an autist that also invented hugboxes for cows and talks with monkeys.

Degree 0: Non-sentient. Includes the majority of objects in the universe, such as rocks, planets, stars, and man created items like clothes, buildings and so on.
Degree 1: Organism capable of replicating like plants, bacteria, prions, viruses, etc. They have capabilities of knowing what they need to survive but are not truly sentient since they are not self-aware. This is the most primordial degree of sentience.
Degree 2: Primitive self-aware cognitive networks. Includes many animals who have a slightly developed sensory organs and nervous systems. These organisms have objective functions, want food, water, sex and basic emotions, and may take direct action to get what they want. However, they lack true self-awareness.
Degree 3: Advanced self-aware cognitive networks. These are organism that can perceive, suffer, and have varying degrees of self awareness Examples are like octopuses can recognize themselves int he mirror or elephants can empathize with each others pain.
Degree 4: Fully developed self-awareness cognitive networks that have the capability to imagine and mold the environment around them to suit their conscious needs. Only humans fit into this category.

Hope this helps you understand because I will not be debating something that should so easy to understand.

 

[fukmylyf]

oh look he is copying ambiguous again

 

[Orc]

Degree 0: Non-sentient. Includes the majority of objects in the universe, such as rocks, planets, stars, and man created items like clothes, buildings and so on.
Degree 1: Organism capable of replicating like plants, bacteria, prions, viruses, etc. They have capabilities of knowing what they need to survive but are not truly sentient since they are not self-aware. This is the most primordial degree of sentience.
Degree 2: Primitive self-aware cognitive networks. Includes many animals who have a slightly developed sensory organs and nervous systems. These organisms have objective functions, want food, water, sex and basic emotions, and may take direct action to get what they want. However, they lack true self-awareness.
Degree 3: Advanced self-aware cognitive networks. These are organism that can perceive, suffer, and have varying degrees of self awareness Examples are like octopuses can recognize themselves int he mirror or elephants can empathize with each others pain.
Degree 4: Fully developed self-awareness cognitive networks that have the capability to imagine and mold the environment around them to suit their conscious needs. Only humans fit into this category.

Hope this helps you understand because I will not be debating something that should so easy to understand.

@FailedNormieManlet also studies biology so he could maybe help you understand better.

3/4th of these aren't related to sentience.


consciousness isn't required to act, it's a tool to think about the action afterwards, and contemplate future actions, you seem to fundamentally misunderstand what the function of it is.

without consciousness, most interactions with stimuli would still happen similarly, if not the same, because consciousness doesn't allow us to perceive things in the moment, your reactions are almost entirely instinctual, they're automated and don't require a thought process.

the only difference between humans and most animals is that they don't form opinions about stimuli that already happened, because that's what your emotions are, that is what pain is, but this is because they have no need for it, when you look at all of the species that actively display components of consciousness they all follow the same baseline characteristics, they're extremely social, most animals are not very social in comparison, their only interactions are raping and fighting each other during the mating season.

 

[Deleted member 21716]

3/4th of these aren't related to sentience.


consciousness isn't required to act, it's a tool to think about the action afterwards, and contemplate future actions, you seem to fundamentally misunderstand what the function of it is.

without consciousness, most interactions with stimuli would still happen similarly, if not the same, because consciousness doesn't allow us to perceive things in the moment, your reactions are almost entirely instinctual, they're automated and don't require a thought process.

the only difference between humans and most animals is that they don't form opinions about stimuli that already happened, because that's what your emotions are, that is what pain is, but this is because they have no need for it, when you look at all of the species that actively display components of consciousness they all follow the same baseline characteristics, they're extremely social, most animals are not very social in comparison, their only interactions are raping and fighting each other during the mating season.

I see where you are coming and I see my errors but that still does not change the fact that a conscious is the most basic function needed for animals that to process the environment that they are in. There are three steps number one possessing consciousness, and then from consciousness is being sentient and then the final step is sapience which is a meta cognitive feedback loop.

And yes animals can form basic opinions on past events. Elephants are a prime example of this since they remember everything and are even able to spread word about tragic events to one another. There was in fact a group of elephants that hid their tusk when they saw humans because they knew that was what they were being killed for. There are animals like octopuses that are very isolated but also form opinions on past events. In fact there are governments that recognize sea creatures octopuses and squids as being sentient beings backed by well established science.

 

[Orc]

conscious is the most basic function needed for animals that to process the environment that they are in.

this is a misunderstanding, consciousness isn't required for most actions, you can still react to positive or negative stimuli i.e being wounded without being conscious, the entire physical reaction is entirely automated, it's called 'nociception' in this case, most animals engage in this and never form what called 'pain' because it doesn't benefit them at all, normies repeatedly misuse the word for it, even researchers do, but don't see this as an excuse to treat them as lesser beings, this also isn't the case, experiencing instincts subjectively doesn't make you any better as an organism, it just means you've evolved in extremely social circumstances in most cases, being conscious doesn't make you better either, most of the most successful animals on the planet are basically biological automatons, and they will outlive us as species too.

most emotions are the subjective processing of instinct, but that instinct would still be there without consciousness, love is just a mechanism of maternal instinct for example.

even learning is to some extent, automated.

And yes animals can form basic opinions on past events. Elephants are a prime example of this since they remember everything and are even able to spread word about tragic events to one another. There was in fact a group of elephants that hid their tusk when they saw humans because they knew that was what they were being killed for.

elephants pass virtually all of the tests we designed for consciousness, most animals are not elephants though, or dolphins, or magpies, most animals are invertebrates.

In fact there are governments that recognize sea creatures octopuses and squids as being sentient beings backed by well established science.

the paper you're thinking of is the cambridge declaration on consciousness but it doesn't state that animals are conscious, it states there's nothing preventing them from being capable of it, we still don't have any evidence for it.


planes still require a competent pilot to be able to fly, even if there's mechanically nothing preventing them from it.