i think im becoming a muslim

[nuisance]

What? Did he have 11 wives & those concubines at the beginning of his journey? That is when those riches and women were offered to him. Also, I'm caging at the idea that he had money from warfare between him and the pagans before even entering war with them. The so-called "wordly fruits" of these "lies" only came to be around 12.5-13 years after these offers happened

Would he have those 11 wives and concubines if people didn't think he was the messenger of god its that simple.

Well, not exactly. If there is miraculous truth(prophecies, etc) in the Quran, what explanation is there other than the fact that God revealed it? There are no failed prophecies(burden of proof is on you because this is a negative argument) or logical discrepancies within the worldview of Islam(again burden of proof is yours). The same cannot be said about Christianity due to multiple reasons:
1. There is an alternate explanation for those "miracles"(air quotes because I am not aware of any): it was originally from God, but people modified it
2. There is (at least) a single failed prophecy within it. The sun and moon were supposed to prostrate to Joseph. However, his mother allegedly died on the way to him. @ltnsyn

Dude what? Every miracle in the Quran has the same amount of reliability as miracles in the bible.

Dude wdym it could have been a coincidence? How lucky(pure luck) could a single man been?
1. He was "highiq" since he was a teenager
2. He was tall
3. He was good-looking
4. He had access to "all the women he desired"
5. He wasn't killed in any war he participated in
6. He had rulership over a HUGE part of the Arabian peninsula
7. He was "rich"
8. The gamble he took by trying to start "a cult" was perfectly successful
9. All the falsifiable prophecies he ever made(that can be judged at this time) came true, despite how ridiculous they seemed at the time
10. He currently has about 2+ billion people who would die for him if given the chance

I didn't say islam was a coincidence I said fulfilled prophecies could be.

Everything you listed is ZERO proof god had any play in his life i dont see your point.

You need to remember how outrageous these claims were. The romans were on the verge of being purged from this earth when "he" claimed that they would overcome their enemies. Dirt poor arabs(he specified dirt poor, more or less) making the tallest building in the world? Dude come on. This is irrational

Empires rise and fall doesn't mean god had a play in it. Was god with the sheep fucker Mongols when they took over the earth?

On what basis have you come to the conclusion that all religions can only be believed in blindly? I have addressed this. We can reach a logical conclusion.
Also, the fact that you think Christianity's truth is more plausible than Islam's shows that you are not analyzing the claims of the religions. If you did, you wouldn't choose a doctrine that literally believes in a 1-in-3 God combo. Rather, you are analyzing the messengers from a conspiracy theory perspective. This is the textbook ad hominem fallacy, but worse. In addition, like @Gamerspyy786 has said, why does the fact that a Prophet that people venerate has become, well, venerated take anything away from the truth of a doctrine?

Its not a adhominen fallacy I have nothing against muhammed I think he is smart a perfect conman.

 

[Gengar]

My mom is Muslim and my dad is an atheist. But whenever she talks to me about Islam, it just makes sense. Maybe it's because I haven’t learned much about other religions, I don’t know. I just feel like I want to be religious. I don’t want to end up in hell on earth or in the end. i just dont know if i actually want to be a muslim, i have a lot of quastion that have never been answered just because " the human mind caant handle gods power"

Did your mother get excommunicated from the family? Assuming your maternal family is traditionally religious instead of secular.

 

[rrm_ss2]

Did your mother get excommunicated from the family? Assuming your maternal family is traditionally religious instead of secular.

no? why would she

 

[mandiblade]

!I don't see how the argument of the Quran being preserved is proof of divine intervention.

I didn't claim this. I said that it would be miraculous if the Torah was preserved. I said that in response to you saying "The Torah is corrupted according to what, the Quran?!"

Muhammed made it clear that protecting the integrity of the Quran was a top priority. Its not hard to preserve a text for centuries if it is a priority and the language barley changes

What? Are you claiming that it's not hard to change a single letter of a 320K+ letter scripture over 1400 years?

In what way did you refute it? You guys are just saying muhammed didnt need it and rejected it yet he had everything the flesh desires.

I said that he tackled your claim from a different perspective. We are both correct. At the beginning the following was true:
1. He was born into potential for much wealth
2. He was born into safety, security, and status
3. He was tall(by today's standards) and handsome, meaning that being married was not an issue(also...he set a cap on the # of wives he had. if he was a pagan, it would have been permissible to have 20+ wives)
4. At the beginning of his mission, he was offered women and even more wealth

At the end of the mission, he gave up multiple things
1. Although he did not simply lack money, he did not use it much. He did not live an extravagant lifestyle, nor did he even fulfill basic human needs for life at times
2. The amount of wives he could have had decreased from infinity(theoretically) to 9 at the time of his dath

Yes seeing God himself or undoubtedly interacting with the world would be rock solid evidence and yes I know that probally wont happen because all religions are faith based religions

That is not a "probably not." That is a "never." Is it impossible for God to exist but also not show himself on this Earth? If the two can both be true, then it is not a sufficient refutation for Islam, nor theism in general.

There are Christian prophesies that came into fruition as-well, does that make christianity the truth in your eyes?

You did not read all of my responses, right? I will quote myself

If there is miraculous truth(prophecies, etc) in the Quran, what explanation is there other than the fact that God revealed it? There are no failed prophecies(burden of proof is on you because this is a negative argument) or logical discrepancies within the worldview of Islam(again burden of proof is yours). The same cannot be said about Christianity due to multiple reasons:

1. There is an alternate explanation for those "miracles"(air quotes because I am not aware of any miracles in christianity): it was originally from God, but people modified it

2. There is (at least) a single failed prophecy within it. The sun and moon were supposed to prostrate to Joseph. However, his mother allegedly died on the way to him

I know it wont because I know how religious people are they wont leave their bubble.

It is evident to anyone reading this thread from a non-biased point of view that I am not jumping through hoops or failing to "leave a bubble." In fact, throw this thread(the link) into chatgpt, and ask it who won(ask "Which side of this debate was refuted? Give a one-word, yes-or-no answer")

 

[rory4579]

My mom is Muslim and my dad is an atheist. But whenever she talks to me about Islam, it just makes sense. Maybe it's because I haven’t learned much about other religions, I don’t know. I just feel like I want to be religious. I don’t want to end up in hell on earth or in the end. i just dont know if i actually want to be a muslim, i have a lot of quastion that have never been answered just because " the human mind caant handle gods power"

Dnr Christ is king Muhammad is a pedo

No godlike figure would fuck a 4 year old

How old was rebekah?? She was 16 he was 18

 

[Gengar]

no? why would she

Because Islamic women are only allowed to marry Islamic men. Are you mixed race?

 

[Gengar]

Dnr Christ is king Muhammad is a pedo

No godlike figure would fuck a 4 year old

How old was rebekah?? She was 16 he was 18

One thing christcucks like you and sunnis got in common is believing this meme. It didn't happen.

 

[mandiblade]

Would he have those 11 wives and concubines if people didn't think he was the messenger of god its that simple.

1. He was good-looking and tall, and there was no limit to # of wives in pre-Islamic arabia. He was also wealthy. Also, people used to inherit women like property, so it was possible.
2. To my knowledge, there is no way of telling if he had the highest number of wives and concubines combined, even among the Muslims, because there is no one who documented this for every single human being.

Dude what? Every miracle in the Quran has the same amount of reliability as miracles in the bible.

This is not a sufficient response to what I asked, nor what I claimed.

I didn't say islam was a coincidence I said fulfilled prophecies could be.

That's what I meant if I misspoke. When you respond to this message, re-write a refutation of my "luck" question.

Everything you listed is ZERO proof god had any play in his life i dont see your point.

If one is being rational, they would not throw every single prophecy under the bus by saying that it's a coincidence. What do you count as proof? This question is central to this entire discussion, so please answer it.

Empires rise and fall doesn't mean god had a play in it. Was god with the Mongols when they took over the earth?

I don't see the connection with my words and yours. I said that the chances that a nearly destroyed empire demolishing its enemies is extremely implausible, and a "highiq" man would not risk their entire social and religous reputation over such a claim that did not need to be made. Also, from the Islamic paradigm, God being "with" someone and God facilitating an event are two separate processes. As such, the answer to your question is "no, but He facilitated that."

Its not a adhominen fallacy I have nothing against muhammed I think he is smart a perfect conman.

This is another insufficient response. I had multiple explanations and questions, and this did not cover them all.
Also, it is an ad hominem because you are deducing the truth of the doctrine of Islam from the life of Muhammed. Ad hominem and one's opinion for someone are not necessarily linked. Also, calling someone a conman is an insult, so you may at least have a little against him.

 

[rrm_ss2]

Because Islamic women are only allowed to marry Islamic men. Are you mixed race?

she never told me anything about it
my dad is Canadian and my mom is mixed Romanian and Syrian

 

[nuisance]

It is evident to anyone reading this thread from a non-biased point of view that I am not jumping through hoops or failing to "leave a bubble." In fact, throw this thread(the link) into chatgpt, and ask it who won(ask "Which side of this debate was refuted? Give a one-word, yes-or-no answer")

Its hilarious that you think that you won the argument

You said yourself muhammed was a broke orphan. Commoners did not have 11 wives and concubines that is only for high status wealthy people. Muhammed became high status after he claimed he was a messenger from god, before he was a broke commoner.

No messenger of god = No 11 wifes, multiple sex slaves, wealth, power, military. He would be a commoner.

This was my initial claim, and your refutations sucked ass and you kept going on tangents

 

[mandiblade]

You said yourself muhammed was a broke orphan

I do not believe that I mentioned that he was an orphan. I did claim that he lived in poverty, but I then retracted my claim for what was actually true. And I did not change on a whim. I was genuinely under the impression that he lacked wealth(you can look up how mainstream-ish this idea is), but then adopted the position with facts behind.

Commoners did not have 11 wives and concubines that is only for high status wealthy people

1. He had 9 wives at once.
2. He was high-status and possessed wealth, and had the capacity to have more. He then gave that up, only to gain it again. Although he became more central and important, if he wanted to at the beginning, it wouldn't have been impossible to be a part of the Qureyshi government and have side chicks
3. Do you have any primary sources that show that it was impossible for high-middle class high status individuals to have 9 people they were in relatively LTR's with?
4. Do you have a primary source showing that no Muslim or Arab Pagan had the same total amount of wives + concubines + side chicks combined?

No messenger of god = No 11 wifes, multiple sex slaves, wealth, power, military. He would be a commoner.

No, he wouldn't have been a commoner.

This was my initial claim

Yes, but you made a bunch of other claims as well, many of which you didn't bother to back up.

and your refutations sucked and you kept going on tangents

I genuinely do not see how I went on tangents. I did lay out a plethora of questions that you did not answer, though.

 

[Remeliawpckhardt]

My mom is Muslim and my dad is an atheist. But whenever she talks to me about Islam, it just makes sense. Maybe it's because I haven’t learned much about other religions, I don’t know. I just feel like I want to be religious. I don’t want to end up in hell on earth or in the end. i just dont know if i actually want to be a muslim, i have a lot of quastion that have never been answered just because " the human mind caant handle gods power"

Mashallah bhai

 

[Gengar]

she never told me anything about it
my dad is Canadian and my mom is mixed Romanian and Syrian

It's actually common knowledge, I'm surprised you didn't know about it.

 

[rrm_ss2]

It's actually common knowledge, I'm surprised you didn't know about it.

So it's not a legal marriage in islam?

 

[nuisance]

I do not believe that I mentioned that he was an orphan. I did claim that he lived in poverty, but I then retracted my claim for what was actually true. And I did not change on a whim. I was genuinely under the impression that he lacked wealth(you can look up how mainstream-ish this idea is), but then adopted the position with facts behind.

He did lack weath in his early years. His money wasn't his prior to him becoming a prophet he married a wealthy woman.

1. He had 9 wives at once.
2. He was high-status and possessed wealth, and had the capacity to have more. He then gave that up, only to gain it again. Although he became more central and important, if he wanted to at the beginning, it wouldn't have been impossible to be a part of the Qureyshi government and have side chicks
3. Do you have any primary sources that show that it was impossible for high-middle class high status individuals to have 9 people they were in relatively LTR's with?
4. Do you have a primary source showing that no Muslim or Arab Pagan had the same total amount of wives + concubines + side chicks combined?

1. 9 wives at once yet islamic law permits only 4, but hey its mohammed right he makes his own rules.

2. I read that he gave it up, although we have no idea what was happening in the background it could have been for show he is a conman, nontheless if he did give up wealth he still has double digits of pussy he could choose from and infinite power which is even better than money.

3. NOBODY was allowed to have more than 4 wives yet muhammed was allowed to, Quran says no yet he did it anyways because he wanted more PUSSY.

No, he wouldn't have been a commoner.

Yes, but you made a bunch of other claims as well, many of which you didn't bother to back up.

I genuinely do not see how I went on tangents. I did lay out a plethora of questions that you did not answer, though.

You went on a tangent after you avoided the heavy hitter that I laid out which I still want your reponse to.

In judaism you are not allowed to have sex with a married woman under any circumstances, islam is a continuation of judiasm or if u want to say its all islam thats fine but that rule still always applied.

This event occurred in 8 AH (after Hijrah), shortly after the Battle of Hunayn, where the Muslims fought against the Hawazin tribe. They beat the shit out of them and took the women.

They were married and the horny men wanted to fuck them, most likley mohammed aswell. So at that moment god revealed to mohammed.

"And [prohibited to you are] married women, except those your right hands possess..."

Completely changing the rules, fucking a married women before was one of the gravest sins.

So God changed the rules right when they just captured a bunch of women. What a load of bullshit bro

Muhammed was horny and was looking out for his boys so he made up some BS

 

[Gengar]

So it's not a legal marriage in islam?

If she's aware of it, then yes. It's not even considered a marriage, she's committing zina (pre-marital sex, a major sin in Islam). But since she hasn't told you, she most likely isn't aware of it, in which case it can be excused. There's a difference between sinning knowingly and sinning without knowing. It sounds like she doesn't know, in which case it wouldn't be classified as a sin. Since in Islam, intentions are more important than actions. You can do the wrong thing with the right intentions and it wouldn't be a sin, and you can do the right thing with the wrong intentions and it would be a sin. Islam doesn't look at things black and white, it's much more flexible than people give it credit for. And it doesn't help that there's a lot of ignorant people in Islamic circles themselves. If she does know she's in the wrong, however, best thing she can do is 1) either divorce your father [which isn't a possibility] or 2) ask for forgiveness and hope for the best. You wouldn't be the first product of such a relationship, I knew at least two people in the same boat (i.e. Islamic mother, non-Islamic father). In one case I thought it was super weird because one of those women refused to shake my hand when I was 16 (we live in the west), at first I respected it because I thought, "Cool, she's religious and I respect that." But then years later I found out she got dicked down by some white guy and then I just lost all my respect for that woman. I won't speak ill of her now though because she died a few years back but yeah, this made me remember that.

 

[Gengar]

Its hilarious that you think that you won the argument

You said yourself muhammed was a broke orphan. Commoners did not have 11 wives and concubines that is only for high status wealthy people. Muhammed became high status after he claimed he was a messenger from god, before he was a broke commoner.

No messenger of god = No 11 wifes, multiple sex slaves, wealth, power, military. He would be a commoner.

This was my initial claim, and your refutations sucked ass and you kept going on tangents

You know nothing. Your ignorance speaks for itself. I'd have taken you seriously and given you an interesting answer but I do not deal with wilfully ignorant people.

 

[nuisance]

You know nothing. Your ignorance speaks for itself. I'd have taken you seriously and given you an interesting answer but I do not deal with wilfully ignorant people.

did you click the wrong person, you didnt send me anything?

 

[rrm_ss2]

If she's aware of it, then yes. It's not even considered a marriage, she's committing zina (pre-marital sex, a major sin in Islam). But since she hasn't told you, she most likely isn't aware of it, in which case it can be excused. There's a difference between sinning knowingly and sinning without knowing. It sounds like she doesn't know, in which case it wouldn't be classified as a sin. Since in Islam, intentions are more important than actions. You can do the wrong thing with the right intentions and it wouldn't be a sin, and you can do the right thing with the wrong intentions and it would be a sin. Islam doesn't look at things black and white, it's much more flexible than people give it credit for. And it doesn't help that there's a lot of ignorant people in Islamic circles themselves. If she does know she's in the wrong, however, best thing she can do is 1) either divorce your father [which isn't a possibility] or 2) ask for forgiveness and hope for the best. You wouldn't be the first product of such a relationship, I knew at least two people in the same boat (i.e. Islamic mother, non-Islamic father). In one case I thought it was super weird because one of those women refused to shake my hand when I was 16 (we live in the west), at first I respected it because I thought, "Cool, she's religious and I respect that." But then years later I found out she got dicked down by some white guy and then I just lost all my respect for that woman. I won't speak ill of her now though because she died a few years back but yeah, this made me remember that.

thanks for telling me ill try to tell her about it

 

[mandiblade]

He did lack weath in his early years. His money wasn't his prior to him becoming a prophet he married a wealthy woman.

He was a businessman prior to that. Also, his family was wealthy, so he could have benefited from that. Also, he was offered a lot of money 13 years before having any chance of restoring all of his human rights.

1. 9 wives at once yet islamic law permits only 4, but hey its mohammed right he makes his own rules.

Pagan law, which is what he came from, allows infinite.

2. I read that he gave it up, although we have no idea what was happening in the background it could have been for show he is a conman

He "starved himself" and almost died multiple times in wars but, behind the scenes, he had side chicks? Also, there is no reliable report of anyone saying that he did that?

3. NOBODY was allowed to have more than 4 wives yet muhammed was allowed to, Quran says no yet he did it anyways because he wanted more PUSSY.

The Quran didn't say no. The Quran allowed it for him. If, theoretically, he was an actual prophet of God, wouldn't this be reasonable, though?

You went on a tangent after you avoided the heavy hitter that I laid out which I still want your reponse to.

Which tangent tho? Like what did I say that was unrelated?

In judaism you are not allowed to have sex with a married woman under any circumstances, islam is a continuation of judiasm or if u want to say its all islam thats fine but that rule still always applied.

You have explicitly stated the premise on which your argument relies on: you are assuming that "Islam is a continuation of Judiasm." What evidence do you have of this, given the fact that you want God to come from the heavens as evidence for God? Also, if it is theoretically "all Islam" like I am claiming, which rule is being applied, and why?

This event occurred in 8 AH (after Hijrah), shortly after the Battle of Hunayn, where the Muslims fought against the Hawazin tribe. They beat the shit out of them and took the women.

They were married and the horny men wanted to fuck them, most likley mohammed aswell. So at that moment god revealed to mohammed.

Do you have a primary source that this is when that verse was revealed? Also, if God theoretically deems that to be moral, why is context-appropriate revelation a problem?

Completely changing the rules, having sex a married women before was one of the gravest sins.

So God changed the rules right when they just captured a bunch of women. What a load of junk bro

Gravest sins in what? Judaism? I asked you a bunch of questions about this bro. Also, if Islam isn't related to Judaism, how is it changing the rules?

I asked you a million of questions, and you haven't addressed most of them. To my knowledge, not a single concern of yours was left completely undiscussed by me. I do not see how I failed to answer your questions

 

[CursedOne]

where are you from op?

 

[rrm_ss2]

where are you from op?

canada

 

[CursedOne]

canada

and your parents origin? why is your mom muslim?

 

[Gengar]

did you click the wrong person, you didnt send me anything?

I implied I would have interacted with you, I just noticed how you were talking to the other guy (I'm a muzzie myself).

 

[rrm_ss2]

and your parents origin? why is your mom muslim?

my dad is canadian and my mom's dad is syrian and her mom is romanian

 

[nuisance]

The Quran didn't say no. The Quran allowed it for him. If, theoretically, he was an actual prophet of God, wouldn't this be reasonable, though?

The Quran says you can have 4 wives maximum, if you do anthing against the quran that is haram.

Which tangent tho? Like what did I say that was unrelated?

You have explicitly stated the premise on which your argument relies on: you are assuming that "Islam is a continuation of Judiasm." What evidence do you have of this, given the fact that you want God to come from the heavens as evidence for God? Also, if it is theoretically "all Islam" like I am claiming, which rule is being applied, and why?

Thats why I said "or if u want to say its all islam thats fine but that rule still always applied" Because I knew you were going to avoid the actual topic again.

If you belive islam started with adam and eve, prior to the battle sex with a married women any under circumstances was HARAM. Until after this battle.

Do you have a primary source that this is when that verse was revealed? Also, if God theoretically deems that to be moral, why is context-appropriate revelation a problem?

Gravest sins in what? Judaism? I asked you a bunch of questions about this bro. Also, if Islam isn't related to Judaism, how is it changing the rules?

I asked you a million of questions, and you haven't addressed most of them. To my knowledge, not a single concern of yours was left completely undiscussed by me. I do not see how I failed to answer your questions

Again nonetheless, if you want to belive islam was not derived from Judaism believe what you want to belive, you can belive that islam started with Adam that doesn't change anything. I can guarantee you Moses did not belive sex with a married woman was ok under any circumstances. That only changed after mohammed and his boys wanted to bang married women

This is the only concern I wanted to talk about in this conversation, and you cant talk about it because it looks bad because it is BAD and you know it.

I got the battle wrong it was the battle of Uhud, nonetheless still right after battle

Surah Introduction, Revelation, Background, Summary and Ayah Themes | Alim

www.alim.org

"This Surah is comprised of several discourses that were revealed on different occasions. Instructions about the division of inheritance and safeguarding of rights of the orphans were revealed after the Battle of Uhud in which 70 Muslims were martyred (vv. 1-28)."

 

[nuisance]

I implied I would have interacted with you, I just noticed how you were talking to the other guy (I'm a muzzie myself).

I mean interesting cop out bro insult me, and cower

Im open to hear your thought on Surah An-Nisa (4:24) and how convenient it was for mohammed and his army. Changing a law set by god for thousands of years just so they could feel pleasure.

 

[Gengar]

I mean interesting cop out bro insult me, and cower

Im open to hear your thought on Surah An-Nisa (4:24) and how convenient it was for mohammed and his army. Changing a law set by god for thousands of years just so they could feel pleasure.

You have no reading comprehension skills, eh? I already said I'm not getting into it with you. Nothing personal, I do it with the other, similarly narrow-minded people on here. You won't see me engaging in religious debates, though sometimes I will correct people's misconceptions but as long as they're respectful, something you haven't been doing here.

 

[Zzure]

My mom is Muslim and my dad is an atheist. But whenever she talks to me about Islam, it just makes sense. Maybe it's because I haven’t learned much about other religions, I don’t know. I just feel like I want to be religious. I don’t want to end up in hell on earth or in the end. i just dont know if i actually want to be a muslim, i have a lot of quastion that have never been answered just because " the human mind caant handle gods power"

do what u want lmao ignore all these copers in replies

 

[nuisance]

You have no reading comprehension skills, eh? I already said I'm not getting into it with you. Nothing personal, I do it with the other, similarly narrow-minded people on here. You won't see me engaging in religious debates, though sometimes I will correct people's misconceptions but as long as they're respectful, something you haven't been doing here.

Apologies if I haven't been respectful to your prophet therefore disrespectful to you as a muslim, I didn't use the most respectful words, however I wouldn't say my points were narrow minded or that I am.

 

[KevinDurder]

Whats ur parents ethnicities?

 

[Rabbi]

It makes the most sense of the Abrahamic faiths on a surface level.

When you dive deeper you notice all sorts of inconsistencies at least in my experience

 

[rrm_ss2]

It makes sense on a surface level.

When you dive deeper you notice all sorts of inconsistencies at least in my experience

what kind of inconsistencies did you notice?

 

[rrm_ss2]

my dad is canadian and my mom's dad is syrian and her mom is romanian

Whats ur parents ethnicities?

 

[mandiblade]

If you belive islam started with adam and eve, prior to the battle sex with a married women any under circumstances was HARAM. Until after this battle.

Thank you for providing your reasoning. I genuinely did not see that you meant this.
1. On what basis are you assuming that the Jewish law came from God and not humans?
2. Even if it came from humans, you have a misconception. Aqida is what has never changed. Allah has stated in the Quran multiple times that the Shariah changes with prophets

if you want to belive islam was not derived from Judaism believe what you want to belive

This is the "entitled to my opinion" fallacy. This is one of the core aspects of this discussion. You cannot simply say "well idk believe whatever you want." I am asking you how you came to the conclusion that Islam came from Judaism. I have asked around 8 related questions as well.

I can guarantee you Moses did not belive sex with a married woman was ok under any circumstances.

How can you? Again, you did not answer my last Judaism-related questions.

That only changed after mohammed and his boys wanted to bang married women

This is the only concern I wanted to talk about in this conversation, and you cant talk about it because it looks bad because it is BAD and you know it

I addressed this, and you did not give a solid response. I don't think you have sufficiently responded to a single one of my questions bro.

I got the battle wrong it was the battle of Uhud, nonetheless still right after battle

Surah Introduction, Revelation, Background, Summary and Ayah Themes | Alim

www.alim.org

Do you understand that not every surah was revealed all at once? We have evidence for specific verses being revealed at specific times. I asked you if there was evidence for this happening for these verses, in the context you have stated. In addition, I asked you some questions you didn't respond to.

The Quran says you can have 4 wives maximum, if you do anthing against the quran that is haram.

I'm pretty sure Surah 37 allows him to have the last one(9th) but then sets that as a cap. I have an essay to write in about 20 minutes so I can't give you a quote.

 

[mandiblade]

Is my sleep deprivation catching up to me, or did I respond to everything he said, but he missed out on most things I said?

 

[mandiblade]

Can yall rep my posts in this thread? Thanks. Logging off for the night(I might not submit that essay )

 

[Gengar]

Apologies if I haven't been respectful to your prophet therefore disrespectful to you as a muslim, I didn't use the most respectful words, however I wouldn't say my points were narrow minded or that I am.

Thank you for your apology. You're a good sport. Well, fine, since you've shown that you can be the bigger man in a conversation, then I will also weigh in.

Yes, it's true that the prophet married more women than we are allowed to, but he also married women who were unwanted by society. He broke social taboos by marrying widows, something that pre-Islamic Arabs did not do. It served a greater purpose.

That said, a commoner should not compare himself to prophets. Yes, prophets had more privileges than us, but they also had more struggles than us. Prophets, by nature, are elevated (as in, they are chosen people), so to compare ourselves to them is... well, silly!

That said, like all other prophets, he still struggled greatly, more than we have. He was an orphan, all his sons died very young, he had to war against his uncle, his tribe turned against him (being aligned to one's tribe was very important in those times), even women would physically attack him (by having garbage thrown at him; he did not get angry, one day when it didn't happen, he asked what happened to the woman who threw garbage at him, he was told she was sick so he paid her a visit; overwhelmed by his action, she turned to Islam), he got ridiculed (they claimed he was suffering from seizures [a common Islamophobic cope still used today even by white people].. ironically, the first Islamophobes were Arabs themselves, since they were polytheist and backward peoples that buried their infant daughters (something that changed also with the arrival of the prophet, as he elevated the status of daughters, these days many Islamic men feel incredibly blessed when they have daughters in particular)).

On a final note, I do not believe that muzzies are allowed to simultaneously marry four women, and that it only applies in times of war when there's a shortage of men. So I do not agree with most muzzies on this issue, because marrying multiple women would just create an incel epidemic.

 

[Rabbi]

what kind of inconsistencies did you notice?

Here’s a write up I made.

The Quran is hilariously wrong and contradicts itself about the construction of the Kabba

This is Ignoring the fact that the only attestation we have to it pre-Islam is being a pagan relic with zero oral, written or traditional attestation to Abraham whatsoever prior to Muhammad but we will leave that aside. The Hadiths claim that Solomons temple and the Kaaba were built 40 years...

looksmax.org

Basically Muhammad claims that two structures were built 40 years apart, but when he states which two prophets built them, even according to Islamic sources existed at a minimum ~1000 years apart from each other.

There’s also the problem with Muhammads night journey.

It’s claimed that he flew to the Al-Aqsa mosque to pray inside with the prophets.

However from history we know that the mosque was destroyed in the Jewish- Roman conflict in 70 AD and was rubble until Abd Al-Malik commissioned its rebuilding 50-60 years after Muhammad’s death, and he even noted that it was nothing but rubble and trash when they started building which raises the question, how exactly did Muhammad pray with prophets inside a mosque/temple when it was nothing but rubble during his life.

There’s also the issue of Mecca/Masjid Al-Haram. The claim is that it was built by Abraham.

This is a dubious claim, it lies at the heart of a trade route and is not mentioned by early sources. If it was built by Abraham it would be older than ~2000 BC. We have zero Jewish or Christian attestation to this ever being associated with Abraham despite Jews and Christians living in the area for centuries.

There’s also the problem with the rituals behind it being extremely close to local pagan customs of the time but that’s another issue.

 

[rrm_ss2]

Here’s a write up I made.

The Quran is hilariously wrong and contradicts itself about the construction of the Kabba

This is Ignoring the fact that the only attestation we have to it pre-Islam is being a pagan relic with zero oral, written or traditional attestation to Abraham whatsoever prior to Muhammad but we will leave that aside. The Hadiths claim that Solomons temple and the Kaaba were built 40 years...

looksmax.org

Basically Muhammad claims that two structures were built 40 years apart, but when he states which two prophets built them, even according to Islamic sources existed at a minimum ~1000 years apart from each other.

There’s also the problem with Muhammads night journey.

It’s claimed that he flew to the Al-Aqsa mosque to pray inside with the prophets.

However from history we know that the mosque was destroyed in the Jewish- Roman conflict in 70 AD and was rubble until Abd Al-Malik commissioned its rebuilding 50-60 years after Muhammad’s death, and he even noted that it was nothing but rubble and trash when they started building which raises the question, how exactly did Muhammad pray with prophets inside a mosque/temple when it was nothing but rubble during his life.

There’s also the issue of Mecca/Masjid Al-Haram. The claim is that it was built by Abraham.

This is a dubious claim, it lies at the heart of a trade route and is not mentioned by early sources. If it was built by Abraham it would be older than ~2000 BC. We have zero Jewish or Christian attestation to this ever being associated with Abraham despite Jews and Christians living in the area for centuries.

There’s also the problem with the rituals behind it being extremely close to local pagan customs of the time but that’s another issue.

hm idk if someone can explain it

 

[nuisance]

Thank you for providing your reasoning. I genuinely did not see that you meant this.
1. On what basis are you assuming that the Jewish law came from God and not humans?
2. Even if it came from humans, you have a misconception. Aqida is what has never changed. Allah has stated in the Quran multiple times that the Shariah changes with prophets

Forgive me if i missed something, I dont remember talking about jewish law at all.

I understand prophets can change the law, however my point is it was awfully convenient and in my opinion out of the abrahamic god's character to allow his people to have sex with married women. It was especially convenient that this happened right after the capture of women from a battle.

This is the "entitled to my opinion" fallacy. This is one of the core aspects of this discussion. You cannot simply say "well idk believe whatever you want." I am asking you how you came to the conclusion that Islam came from Judaism. I have asked around 8 related questions as well.

How can you? Again, you did not answer my last Judaism-related questions.

This is not even close to the core aspects of the discussion, it doesn't change a thing if you believe islam started with adam or it started from judism. We can both agree that Moses would disagree when it comes to sex with married women as well as the abrahamic god.

I addressed this, and you did not give a solid response. I don't think you have sufficiently responded to a single one of my questions bro.

Do you understand that not every surah was revealed all at once? We have evidence for specific verses being revealed at specific times. I asked you if there was evidence for this happening for these verses, in the context you have stated. In addition, I asked you some questions you didn't respond to.

I'm pretty sure Surah 37 allows him to have the last one(9th) but then sets that as a cap. I have an essay to write in about 20 minutes so I can't give you a quote.

Obviously they weren't revealed at once, but this one definitely got revealed at the right time almost like it was made up

Again I sent you a link which explains the time period that surah was revealed, ive seen some muslims scholars agree this happened right after the battle as-well.

You send me long posts and some of the things you ask dont seem relevant to the topic, if you want me to clarify some things just ask. i dont want to talk about the judaism part because I see it as irrelevent.

When you have the time send me the quote from surah 37, I cant find anything that allows muhammed more than 4 wives.

 

[emeraldglass]

My mom is Muslim and my dad is an atheist. But whenever she talks to me about Islam, it just makes sense. Maybe it's because I haven’t learned much about other religions, I don’t know. I just feel like I want to be religious. I don’t want to end up in hell on earth or in the end. i just dont know if i actually want to be a muslim, i have a lot of quastion that have never been answered just because " the human mind caant handle gods power"

Do your research on Islam with a clean heart and you will certainly see that it is the religion of truth. If you have questions pm me.

 

[rrm_ss2]

Do your research on Islam with a clean heart and you will certainly see that it is the religion of truth. If you have questions pm me.

definitely will.

i just dont get this

Here’s a write up I made.

The Quran is hilariously wrong and contradicts itself about the construction of the Kabba

This is Ignoring the fact that the only attestation we have to it pre-Islam is being a pagan relic with zero oral, written or traditional attestation to Abraham whatsoever prior to Muhammad but we will leave that aside. The Hadiths claim that Solomons temple and the Kaaba were built 40 years...

looksmax.org

Basically Muhammad claims that two structures were built 40 years apart, but when he states which two prophets built them, even according to Islamic sources existed at a minimum ~1000 years apart from each other.

There’s also the problem with Muhammads night journey.

It’s claimed that he flew to the Al-Aqsa mosque to pray inside with the prophets.

However from history we know that the mosque was destroyed in the Jewish- Roman conflict in 70 AD and was rubble until Abd Al-Malik commissioned its rebuilding 50-60 years after Muhammad’s death, and he even noted that it was nothing but rubble and trash when they started building which raises the question, how exactly did Muhammad pray with prophets inside a mosque/temple when it was nothing but rubble during his life.

There’s also the issue of Mecca/Masjid Al-Haram. The claim is that it was built by Abraham.

This is a dubious claim, it lies at the heart of a trade route and is not mentioned by early sources. If it was built by Abraham it would be older than ~2000 BC. We have zero Jewish or Christian attestation to this ever being associated with Abraham despite Jews and Christians living in the area for centuries.

There’s also the problem with the rituals behind it being extremely close to local pagan customs of the time but that’s another issue.

 

[JasGews69x]

definitely will.

i just dont get this

Its talking about Adam (as) who raised within 40 years

 

[Fertonium]

i think religion compliments science and vice versa who says you can't believe in both lmfao

 

[Rabbi]

Its talking about Adam (as) who raised within 40 years

Nope its referring to the period of construction between the two buildings

Abu Dhar narrated: I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Which mosque was first built on the surface of the earth?" He said, "Al-Masjid-ul-Haram (in Mecca)." I said, "Which was built next?" He replied "The mosque of Al-Aqsa (in Jerusalem)." I said, "What was the period of construction between the two?" He said, "Forty years." He added, "Wherever (you may be, and) the prayer time becomes due, perform the prayer there, for the best thing is to do so (i.e. to offer the prayers in time)."

Sahih al-Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 55, Hadith Number 585

It says nothing about Adams rise of 40 years from the dirt in this Hadith.

In fact no Surah or Hadith says anything about Adam building the Al-Aqsa at all, that is an interpretation by Muslim scholars to try and rectify the contradiction of Suleiman and Abraham Building the structures which ironically leads to a greater contradiction.

 

[JasGews69x]

Nope its referring to the period of construction between the two buildings

yeah Adam did it between 40 years, thats what i said

Masjid is just a place of worship, not always referring to a building

 

[Rabbi]

yeah Adam did it between 40 years, thats what i said

Masjid is just a place of worship, not always referring to a building

Are you saying Adam built both Al-aqsa and the Kaaba in 40 years?

 

[emeraldglass]

definitely will.

i just dont get this

The guy is mistaken because, from his perspective, he believes that the Kaaba was originally built by Abraham. However, that's not the case. Both the Kaaba and Al-Aqsa were first built during the time of Adam. The claim that they were built 40 years apart is valid. After the flood during the time of Noah, everything on Earth was destroyed. Later, God commanded Abraham and his son Ishmael to rebuild the Kaaba. He missed important info here or delibiratly kept it out.

 

[condommaxxing]

Wasnt Rebeca a minor To?

Who tf is that