Is abortion okay?

[AWanderer]

Well not exactly u swe we are all sinners by nature (if we were truly sinless we would be on same level as Jesus which none of us could) thats why every time u sin, u just have to ask for forgiveness (by buying sincere obviously) and u will be forgiven THATS HOW MUCH GOD LOVES US

Yes ok so then you cant say abortion is bad because its a sin

 

[Clqs]

Always

 

[subhuman1996]

Yes ok so then you cant say abortion is bad because its a sin

Stfu just say u are irresponsible and a complete whore then nigga

 

[jgrey080]

Im pro abortion

 

[AWanderer]

I would argue that to live and suffer is better than to not live at all. I don't know what country the article said or what they allow it for, but this might be something they do. Would you agree at least that in cases where the child would have been healthy and the woman just doesn't feel like having a kid (99.6% of cases), it would be better if we didn't abort it? People often bring up these fringe possibilities, and while I can give you my argument for why killing disabled people like that would be wrong I don't think I need to if we keep the conversation grounded in what's really happening. More poignantly, if you were to set the laws, and could make as many exceptions as you wanted, would you except entirely voluntary abortions as something that we should allow?

Yes if the child is healthy then i guess in some cases it would be better to not abort but i feel like its less likely for the child to be healthy with a mentally unstable or traumatised mother

 

[AWanderer]

Stfu just say u are irresponsible and a complete whore then nigga

just letting you know you sound dumb asl by just insulting me after not knowing what to say in an online debate

 

[takethewhitepill]

By this logic its not ok to sin

Yes abortion is a sin but how many sins have we committed and we still say its ok and we arent perfect and we will always sin

It is not okay to sin, and having sinned ourselves doesn't make further sin any more of an issue. This is a false dichotomy fallacy, that it is either no sin or all sin, and not that we should have morals grounded in religious truth and even if we mess up we should repent and improve. I can show you this simply and elegantly, if I say so myself. Imagine 2 partners in crime, both are serial killers. After 10 kills, they pack it up. Now, one goes home and calls it a night. The other goes ahead and kills 10 more people. Assuming all else equal (hence why I said they worked together to kill the first 10), would you be willing to say that one of these people is worse? There is no point at which we have done so much bad we cannot get worse, so we should cease in our badness and repent.

 

[subhuman1996]

just letting you know you sound dumb asl by just insulting me after not knowing what to say in an online debate

*King of my graping victim list, the graper and the first men I will grape

 

[Neucher]

What about abortion after birth?

 

[AWanderer]

It is not okay to sin, and having sinned ourselves doesn't make further sin any more of an issue. This is a false dichotomy fallacy, that it is either no sin or all sin, and not that we should have morals grounded in religious truth and even if we mess up we should repent and improve. I can show you this simply and elegantly, if I say so myself. Imagine 2 partners in crime, both are serial killers. After 10 kills, they pack it up. Now, one goes home and calls it a night. The other goes ahead and kills 10 more people. Assuming all else equal (hence why I said they worked together to kill the first 10), would you be willing to say that one of these people is worse? There is no point at which we have done so much bad we cannot get worse, so we should cease in our badness and repent.

You make a good point but im not saying no sin or all sin, we should try to avoid sinning as much as possible but theres times where it is inevitable hence why it is in our nature to sin its simply something that is literally impossible to avoid

 

[Montenigger]

Just wanted to see what people on here think because I was debating with a friend on some of Charlie Kirk's political views and he had some interesting points

If you were raped or have health serious health problems then yes,it's okay
If you couldn't keep your legs closed then no
Sad to see so many whores fuck and then kill so many baby's

 

[AWanderer]

If you were raped or have health serious health problems then yes,it's okay
If you couldn't keep your legs closed then no
Sad to see so many whores fuck and then kill so many baby's

Valid point

 

[AWanderer]

*King of my graping victim list, the graper and the first men I will grape

Same guy who was talking about abortion being a sin to say that its bad is now openly saying he will commit a major sin

 

[takethewhitepill]

Yes if the child is healthy then i guess in some cases it would be better to not abort but i feel like its less likely for the child to be healthy with a mentally unstable or traumatised mother

Let's be clear here - this isn't a moral judgement or a trap - are you suggesting that you believe it would be better to kill the child than to keep it alive if the woman decides she doesn't want it; that murder is okay in some cases if it has a perceived potential relief from suffering for the subject? If so, I personally do find that a rather morally poor position but I can respect it, we have followed the same logic towards the same goal but arrived at different conclusions because of different values. I could make arguments against it, a reductio ad absurdum would do quite a number and I could make more pragmatic arguments with statistics, even we could ponder the value of life. But if you would be steadfast despite these things and simply value things differently, we would have to agree to disagree and walk away honourably knowing we just have a different lens of the world, trusting each other that if our values were to change we would maintain our integrity and take up a new position from our same logic.

 

[gimmedatacc]

yes. abort ethnics. especially nogs. fuck this gay hippie christian morality where all life is considered sacred. the ancient pagan societies also killed babies with genetic defects.

 

[takethewhitepill]

You make a good point but im not saying no sin or all sin, we should try to avoid sinning as much as possible but theres times where it is inevitable hence why it is in our nature to sin its simply something that is literally impossible to avoid

Thanks for acknowledging my point in good faith, you have been good to debate with. Based on the stats I provided earlier making a pragmatic argument, if elective abortions were lowered we should expect the total number of abortions to drop all else being equal. Would banning elective abortion not then lead us to avoid this sin, thus showing it is not inevitable or impossible to avoid? I could also read it as sin itself being inevitable, but find this irrelevant as I explained before, the lesser of two evils idea. To avoid sinning as much as possible, this looks to me as a necessary step. I don't expect everyone to hold to a Christian framework, but do you agree that if we do then it is only internally consistent to be an abolitionist?

 

[AWanderer]

Let's be clear here - this isn't a moral judgement or a trap - are you suggesting that you believe it would be better to kill the child than to keep it alive if the woman decides she doesn't want it; that murder is okay in some cases if it has a perceived potential relief from suffering for the subject? If so, I personally do find that a rather morally poor position but I can respect it, we have followed the same logic towards the same goal but arrived at different conclusions because of different values. I could make arguments against it, a reductio ad absurdum would do quite a number and I could make more pragmatic arguments with statistics, even we could ponder the value of life. But if you would be steadfast despite these things and simply value things differently, we would have to agree to disagree and walk away honourably knowing we just have a different lens of the world, trusting each other that if our values were to change we would maintain our integrity and take up a new position from our same logic.

Yes pretty much but happy to have a proper debate with someone

 

[AWanderer]

Thanks for acknowledging my point in good faith, you have been good to debate with. Based on the stats I provided earlier making a pragmatic argument, if elective abortions were lowered we should expect the total number of abortions to drop all else being equal. Would banning elective abortion not then lead us to avoid this sin, thus showing it is not inevitable or impossible to avoid? I could also read it as sin itself being inevitable, but find this irrelevant as I explained before, the lesser of two evils idea. To avoid sinning as much as possible, this looks to me as a necessary step. I don't expect everyone to hold to a Christian framework, but do you agree that if we do then it is only internally consistent to be an abolitionist?

Lowk still thinking of how to answer this good question

 

[AWanderer]

Thanks for acknowledging my point in good faith, you have been good to debate with. Based on the stats I provided earlier making a pragmatic argument, if elective abortions were lowered we should expect the total number of abortions to drop all else being equal. Would banning elective abortion not then lead us to avoid this sin, thus showing it is not inevitable or impossible to avoid? I could also read it as sin itself being inevitable, but find this irrelevant as I explained before, the lesser of two evils idea. To avoid sinning as much as possible, this looks to me as a necessary step. I don't expect everyone to hold to a Christian framework, but do you agree that if we do then it is only internally consistent to be an abolitionist?

Yeah I guess youre correct on that but I still feel like theres always an exception

 

[134applesauce456]

littterally, mf will post about raping a woman then act all high and righteous and say abortion is bad

fr why are they trying to act like saints now

but actually preventing abortion isn't even the moral high ground, the baby will life a hellish life filled w suffering if they get put in the foster care system or end up being raised by their druggie mother

they dont take a second to think deeper about the quality of the babies life and these are the same people complaining why their parents had them if their genetics were bad or if they were poor blahblah

 

[AWanderer]

fr why are they trying to act like saints now

but actually preventing abortion isn't even the moral high ground, the baby will life a hellish life filled w suffering if they get put in the foster care system or end up being raised by their druggie mother

they dont take a second to think deeper about the quality of the babies life and these are the same people complaining why their parents had them if their genetics were bad

Agreed

 

[brotato78]

fr why are they trying to act like saints now

but actually preventing abortion isn't even the moral high ground, the baby will life a hellish life filled w suffering if they get put in the foster care system or end up being raised by their druggie mother

they dont take a second to think deeper about the quality of the babies life and these are the same people complaining why their parents had them if their genetics were bad or if they were poor blahblah

yeah, and the whole religious aspect makes no sense BECAUSE ITS NOT FUCKING REAL

 

[takethewhitepill]

Lowk still thinking of how to answer this good question

Yeah I guess youre correct on that but I still feel like theres always an exception

I don't expect you to have an answer to this exactly since its not your moral framework. I think if you look at is as a justified killing and I look at it as an unjustified killing, we are both being reasonable and I would have to try to win over your morality, which is a bit of a tall task but I can do it if you give me enough time I suppose. I would make a new thread for that, probably not right now though since I have an assignment due tomorrow and I'm procrastinating debating with people online .

If you think we had a good debate and I was reasonable to engage with, I'd appreciate if you voted me for graycel of the month? I don't really know why I want to win but its a bit of fun and I feel like I can count on your vote: Graycel of the month. If you ever have more arguments I still have my best arguments up my sleeve, only pull them out when necessary since most people are too stupid to even follow the logic (not that the arguments are some ridiculous shit you need to be a genius to understand, but more that it requires a good understand of logical proof since I would have to explain each thing before continuing, normies don't know what a Bayesian probability is or anything let alone how to show rigorous proof).

If you PM me I'd be glad to talk to you about really anything since you seem like a cool guy.

 

[AWanderer]

I don't expect you to have an answer to this exactly since its not your moral framework. I think if you look at is as a justified killing and I look at it as an unjustified killing, we are both being reasonable and I would have to try to win over your morality, which is a bit of a tall task but I can do it if you give me enough time I suppose. I would make a new thread for that, probably not right now though since I have an assignment due tomorrow and I'm procrastinating debating with people online .

If you think we had a good debate and I was reasonable to engage with, I'd appreciate if you voted me for graycel of the month? I don't really know why I want to win but its a bit of fun and I feel like I can count on your vote: Graycel of the month. If you ever have more arguments I still have my best arguments up my sleeve, only pull them out when necessary since most people are too stupid to even follow the logic (not that the arguments are some ridiculous shit you need to be a genius to understand, but more that it requires a good understand of logical proof since I would have to explain each thing before continuing, normies don't know what a Bayesian probability is or anything let alone how to show rigorous proof).

If you PM me I'd be glad to talk to you about really anything since you seem like a cool guy.

Sounds cool bro and I'll vote for you