Is day trading really a cope or do people just not know what they’re doing?

[dnr.niglet]

A lot of people call trading cope, some say it’s op. Here’s a breakdown where we can decide if it’s really cope or not

what are the real statistics?
It’s not 99% of traders lose, it’s deeper than that
Statistically
74% of people who try trading are fast losers who treat it like a casino and lose most of their account within weeks or months and step away permanently from trading
23% of people were persistent persistent and tried their hardest for a long period of time but still ended up quitting with a loss
(So overall 97% quit with a loss, making a profitable trader 1 in 30)
1.9% manage to make a lil money on the side, often below minimum wage but not enough to replace a job, the lower half mostly just break even.
0.6% make enough money to replace their job and just trade full time
0.49% get comfortably wealth and make up to what’s considered a professional salary
And 0.01% actually get stinking rich

Why?
Trading is just gambling in a sense because it’s the same concept, bet on an outcome that hasn’t been determined yet.
But unlike total randomness, you can use certain tools or concepts and theories to give yourself an edge.
Those 97% who fail, most of them don’t have a real strategy, most of them give up too soon, most of them get emotional, most of them revenge trade, most of them don’t stick to their rules, most of them get greedy, most of them don’t have proper risk management.
It’s not a get rich quick scheme but a job, it requires the same amount of attention and smart approach and dedication as one.

The money math:
a lot of traders trade an instrument called nq
Which is 100 of the biggest tech companies in the us in a index averaging out at a price of abt 30,000 usd
Nq frequently makes 100-200 dollar price moves daily.
The way you make money is based on points, and 1 dollar of price movement is 1point
So if it goes down to 29,999 from 30,000
That’s 1 point down
If it goes up to 30,001 from 30,000 that’s 1 point up
You have an micro nq contract which gives you or takes 2 dollars per point moved
And e-mini nq which gives you or takes 20 dollars per point moved
Once you open the position
So if you catch a 200 point move with 1 e mini
That’s 4000 dollars, with a micro it’s a 10th of the size.
With 5 contracts, catch a 100 point move, that’s 10000 dollars
Fees are negligible with only costing around 5 dollars to open and close a position per contract

Most prop firms have a max drawdown of 2.5k usd in a 50k account so you have 5 chances to make money using e minis which cost around 500-1000 to open.
But even if you get one trade that creates a good buffer.
But most traders use micros for better risk management and bigger stop losses

Yes the risk is just as giant as the reward,
So, what do you think? Cope or real way to make money if you know what you’re doing?

@Wicket @RJ_ascends @tenmacel @myoglobin @greylurker

 

[dnr.niglet]

B

 

[tenmacel]

A lot of people call trading cope, some say it’s op. Here’s a breakdown where we can decide if it’s really cope or not

what are the real statistics?
It’s not 99% of traders lose, it’s deeper than that
Statistically
74% of people who try trading are fast losers who treat it like a casino and lose most of their account within weeks or months and step away permanently from trading
23% of people were persistent persistent and tried their hardest for a long period of time but still ended up quitting with a loss
(So overall 97% quit with a loss, making a profitable trader 1 in 30)
1.9% manage to make a lil money on the side, often below minimum wage but not enough to replace a job, the lower half mostly just break even.
0.6% make enough money to replace their job and just trade full time
0.49% get comfortably wealth and make up to what’s considered a professional salary
And 0.01% actually get stinking rich

Why?
Trading is just gambling in a sense because it’s the same concept, bet on an outcome that hasn’t been determined yet.
But unlike total randomness, you can use certain tools or concepts and theories to give yourself an edge.
Those 97% who fail, most of them don’t have a real strategy, most of them give up too soon, most of them get emotional, most of them revenge trade, most of them don’t stick to their rules, most of them get greedy, most of them don’t have proper risk management.
It’s not a get rich quick scheme but a job, it requires the same amount of attention and smart approach and dedication as one.

They do have a real "strategy" it's the same bullshit as what you have

The money math:
a lot of traders trade an instrument called nq
Which is 100 of the biggest tech companies in the us in a index averaging out at a price of abt 30,000 usd
Nq frequently makes 100-200 dollar price moves daily.
The way you make money is based on points, and 1 dollar of price movement is 1point
So if it goes down to 29,999 from 30,000
That’s 1 point down
If it goes up to 30,001 from 30,000 that’s 1 point up
You have an micro nq contract which gives you or takes 2 dollars per point moved
And e-mini nq which gives you or takes 20 dollars per point moved
Once you open the position
So if you catch a 200 point move with 1 e mini
That’s 4000 dollars, with a micro it’s a 10th of the size.
With 5 contracts, catch a 100 point move, that’s 10000 dollars
Fees are negligible with only costing around 5 dollars to open and close a position per contract

Most prop firms have a max drawdown of 2.5k usd in a 50k account so you have 5 chances to make money using e minis which cost around 500-1000 to open.
But even if you get one trade that creates a good buffer.
But most traders use micros for better risk management and bigger stop losses

Yes the risk is just as giant as the reward,
So, what do you think? Cope or real way to make money if you know what you’re doing?

@Wicket @RJ_ascends @tenmacel @myoglobin @greylurker

If you lose 5% on a 20:1 leverage you get wiped out I know you have no idea how to hedge much less the capital to do so, this is cope and you're gambling

 

[dnr.niglet]

They do have a real "strategy" it's the same bullshit as what you have

If you lose 5% on a 20:1 leverage you get wiped out I know you have no idea how to hedge much less the capital to do so, this is cope and you're gambling

I’m not currently trading but I’m learning of
Which is not a mechanical strategy, you use real paid data that shows you resting limit orders, absorption, yaddi yadda.

And yes if you lose 5% on a 20:1 leverage you get liquidated but trading works based on points which is different to leverage.
You get liquidated on a 500usd nq contract if it goes 25 points against you.
it is gambling like i said but with the possibility of having better outcomes with knowledge and info

 

[tenmacel]

I’m not currently trading but I’m learning of
Which is not a mechanical strategy, you use real paid data that shows you resting limit orders, absorption, yaddi yadda.

And yes if you lose 5% on a 20:1 leverage you get liquidated but trading works based on points which is different to leverage.
You get liquidated on a 500usd nq contract if it goes 25 points against you.
it is gambling like i said but with the possibility of having better outcomes with knowledge and info

Learn to invest these are horoscopes

 

[dnr.niglet]

Learn to invest these are horoscopes

I already know how to invest I’ve turned 600 usd into 4000 usd at 15 spot trading stocks under my moms name.
And I’ve traded crypto perpetual futures and my account I put 70 usd into, I turned it into 300 but I’ve given up because it took me 2 months to do that since fees on non kyc wallets are brootal. Like 6 dollars to open a 100 dollar position and 6 dollars to close because of notional value.

I know my stuff. And with using logic, trading is a good way of making money if you know what you’re doing.

But ig my spot stocks run wasn’t really investing but just day trading stocks jfl. But either way. There’s real money to be made in the markets

 

[_Jason_]

its cope because you are battling huge corporations who pay millions for data and have real time tracking of 100s of events as they unfold in real time.

 

[tenmacel]

I already know how to invest I’ve turned 600 usd into 4000 usd at 15 spot trading stocks under my moms name.
And I’ve traded crypto perpetual futures and my account I put 70 usd into, I turned it into 300 but I’ve given up because it took me 2 months to do that since fees on non kyc wallets are brootal. Like 6 dollars to open a 100 dollar position and 6 dollars to close because of notional value.

I know my stuff. And with using logic, trading is a good way of making money if you know what you’re doing.

But ig my spot stocks run wasn’t really investing but just day trading stocks jfl. But either way. There’s real money to be made in the markets

Yes I can turn 10 into 1000 gambling too, you can't day trade size. There's real money to be made intraday through extensive alpha research. All your strategies are poorly risk adjusted; when evaluating one always ask yourself two things:
Can I achieve a similar sharpelike holding onto QQQ or SPY?
If this strategy is so good, how come I, a 15yo am able to use it (this implies heavy alpha decay btw)

 

[dnr.niglet]

its cope because you are battling huge corporations who pay millions for data and have real time tracking of 100s of events as they unfold in real time.

Who says you’re battling them? The index only goes up and down, sometimes chops but you get the gist.
All you have to do is pick the same direction as them.
And the same data they have can be accessed by normal retail traders, just that it costs a pretty penny, but doesn’t cost millions because it’s for an individual.
And yes big corporations have better news and info regarding world events but such things are rare and barely happen during normal conditions, other than USA financial events and announcements which everyone has access to.
And do you really think institutions care about some retail trader with a 5 contract nq position?
No, it’s the big institutions fighting each other, people just get caught in the crossfire.
Retail traders make up only a fraction of price movement through their orders

And institutions don’t magically all make money from retail traders being their only liquidity, they’re not all in on the same thing

 

[dnr.niglet]

Yes I can turn 10 into 1000 gambling too, you can't day trade size. There's real money to be made intraday through extensive alpha research. All your strategies are poorly risk adjusted; when evaluating one always ask yourself two things:
Can I achieve a similar sharpelike holding onto QQQ or SPY?
If this strategy is so good, how come I, a 15yo am able to use it (this implies heavy alpha decay btw)

Of is resistant to alpha decay because it’s not mechanical and it strictly works based on real time data.
And the easy option is just buying es or qqq and holding it for the long term but it’s slow, and to make anything meaningful you need tons of capital to get some nice profits

And Alpha research is just as bad as whatever strategy you’re shitting on, it doesn’t account for world events, human chaos, and hype

 

[tenmacel]

Of is resistant to alpha decay because it’s not mechanical and it strictly works based on real time data.
And the easy option is just buying es or qqq and holding it for the long term but it’s slow, and to make anything meaningful you need tons of capital to get some nice profits

You are beyond saving bro

And Alpha research is just as bad as whatever strategy you’re shitting on, it doesn’t account for world events, human chaos, and hype

Because it looks at microstructure?

 

[dnr.niglet]

You are beyond saving bro

Because it looks at microstructure?

Bruh what “alpha research” are you talking abt? If it’s basically quant then it’s disadvantaged in things like events and hype and human chaos, news, yaddi yadda.

And how are you trading at 15? Jfl you need to be 18. Unless it’s under a parents name or sum