Is Ramieri the goat of Bimax?? Ramieri vs Raffaini

[AspieBro]

There were countless things about that patient's (Sheyko) case that we didn't know about. He couldn't form full sentences or articulate his concerns on his thread about his operation and spoke as if in a cryptic fever dream mystical ecstasy. I learned nothing from reading his threads here and on the italian looksmaxxing forum. He asked people to contact him on Tinder for more questions. How do you know he is not a troll?

But I agree Dr. Ramieri is an excellent and reasonable option and less riskier aesthetically than Dr. Pagnoni.

I have talked to numerous people that Dr. Pagnoni has denied implants to because they would not benefit them.

You just have to be careful with genioplasties with Dr. Pagnoni. He tends to go very strong on the genioplasty sometimes perhaps a bit too strong to my taste; if this is not what you want make it very clear to him and I am sure he will oblige.

Wdym by very strong? Overadvances?

 

[chrishell]

Wdym by very strong? Overadvances?

Yes

 

[AspieBro]

Yes

Surely any good surgeon can’t botch a genio, it’s one of the most simple surgeries. Plus he uses virtual planning so you can see what looks good and make a judgement on how much advancement you need

 

[haus33]

Surely any good surgeon can’t botch a genio, it’s one of the most simple surgeries. Plus he uses virtual planning so you can see what looks good and make a judgement on how much advancement you need

I saw a botched one on reddit on a girl, makes women look masculine if it's too much and for men it can also look uncanny

 

[chrishell]

Surely any good surgeon can’t botch a genio, it’s one of the most simple surgeries. Plus he uses virtual planning so you can see what looks good and make a judgement on how much advancement you need

No surgery is simple. A genio can involve moving your chin in three directions. It could involve downgraft, upgraft, widening. They need to fixate it appropriately. They can use alternative techniques. They have to shape the mentomandibular contour appropriately. They have to resuspend the mentalis muscle in an appropriate way. They have to work to avoid causing negative effects on the lower lip. They have to dissect minimally as to minimize the amount of scar tissue that results.

And when I said Pagnoni sometimes makes the chin too strong, it's not a question of his ability but his aesthetic taste. He executes exactly what he wants to. It's just what he wants often is a chin that's on the very aggressive end of natural.

The virtual planning software can also be misleading because it does not always accurately represent soft tissue much less the way those tissues respond to the underlying bones being moved. I would take it with a grain of salt.

 

[AspieBro]

No surgery is simple. A genio can involve moving your chin in three directions. It could involve downgraft, upgraft, widening. They need to fixate it appropriately. They can use alternative techniques. They have to shape the mentomandibular contour appropriately. They have to resuspend the mentalis muscle in an appropriate way. They have to work to avoid causing negative effects on the lower lip. They have to dissect minimally as to minimize the amount of scar tissue that results.

And when I said Pagnoni sometimes makes the chin too strong, it's not a question of his ability but his aesthetic taste. He executes exactly what he wants to. It's just what he wants often is a chin that's on the very aggressive end of natural.

The virtual planning software can also be misleading because it does not always accurately represent soft tissue much less the way those tissues respond to the underlying bones being moved. I would take it with a grain of salt.

yeah fair, I will have to make a judgement when I see his results in consult. But I’ve been advised Pagnoni is one of the best for complex genios for his use of custom plates and planning and he’s less conservative than Ramieri is.

 

[Pakicel]

Surely any good surgeon can’t botch a genio, it’s one of the most simple surgeries. Plus he uses virtual planning so you can see what looks good and make a judgement on how much advancement you need

Genius do get botched. Sliding genios are simple. But complex ones can def go wrong.

 

[AspieBro]

Genius do get botched. Sliding genios are simple. But complex ones can def go wrong.

What causes the increase in risk?

 

[Pakicel]

What causes the increase in risk?

Bone grafts might be needed so there is a greater risk of infection. Large vertical displacements (more than 5-6 mm) can give you a hanging lower lip. Looks less natural than bimax.

 

[Pakicel]

What causes the increase in risk?

I have seen a genio where the guy got 15 mm vertical lengthening. Looks uncanny. Had SFS and probably needed bimax.

 

[AspieBro]

Bone grafts might be needed so there is a greater risk of infection. Large vertical displacements (more than 5-6 mm) can give you a hanging lower lip. Looks less natural than bimax.

Is the hanging lower lip a significant risk?

 

[Pakicel]

Is the hanging lower lip a significant risk?

Yes. But you can avoid it if you get mentalis resuspension.

 

[AspieBro]

Yes. But you can avoid it if you get mentalis resuspension.

So would you advise against asking for larger vertical movements if you need one?

 

[Pakicel]

So would you advise against asking for larger vertical movements if you need one?

Large movements can make you look uncanny. I think 8-9 mm vertical is the max you can go if you genuinely need a taller chin.

I was initially going to get only vertical genio but my upper jaw is also short and I have asymmetries that would be exacerbated by the vertical genio.

 

[treezy456]

Large movements can make you look uncanny. I think 8-9 mm vertical is the max you can go if you genuinely need a taller chin.

I was initially going to get only vertical genio but my upper jaw is also short and I have asymmetries that would be exacerbated by the vertical genio.

High IQ user

 

[AspieBro]

High IQ user

fr one of the very few on the forum

 

[Pakicel]

High IQ user

Not high IQ. It’s just that I have actually seriously researched surgeries and not just mentally masturbate like most on here.

 

[FrenchareMedCucks]

Since 2023 Ramieri became more blackpilled. Many users here went see him and ask him for ramus widening ( which he didn't offer pre 2023 ) along with bigger movements ( 18-20 mm pogonion ) .

Here is credits to

@BlackpilledPlatypus​

This result alone moggs any bimax by Pags ( even if he is still the implant killer ) and is equal to Raffaini's best results ( nephew + the dutch redhead guy ) .

I will go to Ramieri because his price tag is decent , the care and professionnalism is very good and I'm sure he won't botched me ore scammed me. Raffaini is a narcy surgeon and don't care about your plans.

 

[Chris2001]

I saw a botched one on reddit on a girl, makes women look masculine if it's too much and for men it can also look uncanny

@haus33 is there a thread? i cannot find a result a female result from pagnoni on reddit. only one guy who got implants

 

[haus33]

@haus33 is there a thread? i cannot find a result a female result from pagnoni on reddit. only one guy who got implants

it wasn't Pagnoni who did it I don't think she even mentioned the surgeon's name, I don't know how to find the thread but she was upset over her results from a bimax + genio and people agreed in the comment the genio went too far or was not needed at all

I also haven't seen any female results or many results in general from Pagnoni besides his instagram with 3 pictures and a few self posters on here and reddit . apparently he does not care about marketing and advertising

 

[ascenscionisnear]

yeah fair, I will have to make a judgement when I see his results in consult. But I’ve been advised Pagnoni is one of the best for complex genios for his use of custom plates and planning and he’s less conservative than Ramieri is.

I’m not sure where this rumour that Dr. Ramieri is conservative came from.
I had surgery with him and he was anything but conservative. He gives you what’s best for your case.

 

[treezy456]

it wasn't Pagnoni who did it I don't think she even mentioned the surgeon's name, I don't know how to find the thread but she was upset over her results from a bimax + genio and people agreed in the comment the genio went too far or was not needed at all

I also haven't seen any female results or many results in general from Pagnoni besides his instagram with 3 pictures and a few self posters on here and reddit . apparently he does not care about marketing and advertising

Pangoni pays people on this forum to advertise him I think I saw a thread about it and I also think its true because even when u say that he botched somebody they just kinda ignore it and say that he is the best

 

[treezy456]

Since 2023 Ramieri became more blackpilled. Many users here went see him and ask him for ramus widening ( which he didn't offer pre 2023 ) along with bigger movements ( 18-20 mm pogonion ) .

View attachment 3106210 View attachment 3106211

Here is credits to

@BlackpilledPlatypus​

This result alone moggs any bimax by Pags ( even if he is still the implant killer ) and is equal to Raffaini's best results ( nephew + the dutch redhead guy ) .

I will go to Ramieri because his price tag is decent , the care and professionnalism is very good and I'm sure he won't botched me ore scammed me. Raffaini is a narcy surgeon and don't care about your plans.

I am going to consult with ramieri and raffaini soon and see which one fits the best in my opinion

 

[k99]

Since 2023 Ramieri became more blackpilled. Many users here went see him and ask him for ramus widening ( which he didn't offer pre 2023 ) along with bigger movements ( 18-20 mm pogonion ) .

View attachment 3106210 View attachment 3106211

Here is credits to

@BlackpilledPlatypus​

This result alone moggs any bimax by Pags ( even if he is still the implant killer ) and is equal to Raffaini's best results ( nephew + the dutch redhead guy ) .

I will go to Ramieri because his price tag is decent , the care and professionnalism is very good and I'm sure he won't botched me ore scammed me. Raffaini is a narcy surgeon and don't care about your plans.

there is a new picture ramus widening didnt do shit to this guy

 

[Pakicel]

Since 2023 Ramieri became more blackpilled. Many users here went see him and ask him for ramus widening ( which he didn't offer pre 2023 ) along with bigger movements ( 18-20 mm pogonion ) .

View attachment 3106210 View attachment 3106211

Here is credits to

@BlackpilledPlatypus​

This result alone moggs any bimax by Pags ( even if he is still the implant killer ) and is equal to Raffaini's best results ( nephew + the dutch redhead guy ) .

I will go to Ramieri because his price tag is decent , the care and professionnalism is very good and I'm sure he won't botched me ore scammed me. Raffaini is a narcy surgeon and don't care about your plans.

It’s not about the surgeon as much as it is about the movements and how well they are executed.

 

[FrenchareMedCucks]

Yes i've never seen a bimax only result from Pagnoni on male that impressed me so far.

he is above average for sure, but not the best in Europe/Italy.

 

[ihatewhiterose]

Yes i've never seen a bimax only result from Pagnoni on male that impressed me so far.

he is above average for sure, but not the best in Europe/Italy.

my friend went to Dr. Simonas Grybauskas for trimax with big ccw rotation and the result mogs every bimax by Pagnoni that ive seen

i wonder if he does implants i will go for a consultation with him soon-ish

 

[BlackpilledPlatypus]

there is a new picture ramus widening didnt do shit to this guy

Yeah, I don’t think the ramus widening made a noticeable difference as it was a very small amount, but assuming you’re referring to the recent pictures on Ramieri’s IG, I honestly don’t think they’re a great representation of the result because I was giga-bloated on that day from being a tourist and eating some big-ass salty pizzas.

 

[BlackpilledPlatypus]

Yeah, I don’t think the ramus widening made a noticeable difference as it was a very small amount, but assuming you’re referring to the recent pictures on Ramieri’s IG, I honestly don’t think they’re a great representation of the result because I was giga-bloated on that day from being a tourist and eating some big-ass salty pizzas.

The definition varies a lot with bloat and lighting, but I would say I generally have more definition than before (see below) mostly from the skin stretch from the advancement and downgraft I would guess. I have been complacent and still have considerable leanmaxxing to do tbh.

 

[k99]

The definition varies a lot with bloat and lighting, but I would say I generally have more definition than before (see below) mostly from the skin stretch from the advancement and downgraft I would guess. I have been complacent and still have considerable leanmaxxing to do tbh.
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u had a decent jaw before its not like u were giga recessed

 

[BlackpilledPlatypus]

u had a decent jaw before its not like u were giga recessed

I wasn’t giga recessed but I had bad SFS. I had the classic ugly SFS smile where you could hardly see any teeth.

 

[k99]

I wasn’t giga recessed but I had bad SFS. I had the classic ugly SFS smile where you could hardly see any teeth.

looks good too bad i am poor as shit to get it

 

[chrishell]

The definition varies a lot with bloat and lighting, but I would say I generally have more definition than before (see below) mostly from the skin stretch from the advancement and downgraft I would guess. I have been complacent and still have considerable leanmaxxing to do tbh.
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How long ago was your procedure

 

[BlackpilledPlatypus]

How long ago was your procedure

7 months

 

[chrishell]

7 months

are you willing to share your simulation in pms

 

[BlackpilledPlatypus]

are you willing to share your simulation in pms

Sure, I only have one screenshot of the final simulation as I asked to amend the plan by adding a tiny bit more downgrafting and vertical genio.

 

[bigseal]

7 months

What was the cost?

 

[BlackpilledPlatypus]

What was the cost?

15k euros + another 6k euros to use custom plates and guides which was optional.

 

[Asspear]

15k euros + another 6k euros to use custom plates and guides which was optional.

Always appreciate the pricing transparency, thank you. Fantastic result!

 

[FrenchareMedCucks]

The definition varies a lot with bloat and lighting, but I would say I generally have more definition than before (see below) mostly from the skin stretch from the advancement and downgraft I would guess. I have been complacent and still have considerable leanmaxxing to do tbh.
View attachment 3109917View attachment 3109919
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you definitely ascended from incel to mid HTN around 4.5 or 4.75 PSL . the kind of NT guy that had multiple girlfriends with ease.

crazy how your lips went from cuck/nerd to slayer level.

LF1 area improvement from front is very underated here.
female's brain are hardwired to be attracted to projected mouth area with full lips.

 

[BlackpilledPlatypus]

you definitely ascended from incel to mid HTN around 4.5 or 4.75 PSL . the kind of NT guy that had multiple girlfriends with ease.

crazy how your lips went from cuck/nerd to slayer level.

LF1 area improvement from front is very underated here.
female's brain are hardwired to be attracted to projected mouth area with full lips.

Thanks man, and my experience certainly tracks with that. I was incel with 0 female attention irl and abysmal OLD results, to now sometimes pulling attractive girls in clubs (and I don’t go often) and getting lots of strong MTB and HTB matches on Tinder if I bend over and pay for platinum (the difference is astounding for me, it puts you in front of the queue of all the non-payers so women actually see you, still useless if ugly, and probably not too useful for Chad who will be top of the stack anyway due to high ELO or whatever they use now).

I still get ignored and flaked on all the time. I think dating is a nightmare for almost all men now, but now I have at least fighting chance at getting a high quality girl and could probably at least land LTBs with relative ease (obviously I don’t want to do that).

This is all a bit confounded by me making multiple changes in a short space of time: shoe lifts, eyebrow and eyelash dye, going clean shaven most of the time, getting a longer more messy NT haircut and better clothes. But I think anybody blackpilled on facial aesthetics will agree that trimax has done the heavy lifting here.

 

[Pakicel]

Thanks man, and my experience certainly tracks with that. I was incel with 0 female attention irl and abysmal OLD results, to now sometimes pulling attractive girls in clubs (and I don’t go often) and getting lots of strong MTB and HTB matches on Tinder if I bend over and pay for platinum (the difference is astounding for me, it puts you in front of the queue of all the non-payers so women actually see you, still useless if ugly, and probably not too useful for Chad who will be top of the stack anyway due to high ELO or whatever they use now).

I still get ignored and flaked on all the time. I think dating is a nightmare for almost all men now, but now I have at least fighting chance at getting a high quality girl and could probably at least land LTBs with relative ease (obviously I don’t want to do that).

This is all a bit confounded by me making multiple changes in a short space of time: shoe lifts, eyebrow and eyelash dye, going clean shaven most of the time, getting a longer more messy NT haircut and better clothes. But I think anybody blackpilled on facial aesthetics will agree that trimax has done the heavy lifting here.

Yeah. Bimax alone was not completely responsible for this change. You were looksminned quite a bit by shitty haircut, poor skin, bad clothes etc.

People here don’t understand that surgery only gives you the foundation for softmaxxing to be effective. It’s useless to get surgery and not capitalize on it by gymcelling, fashionmaxxing, NTmaxxing etc.

That being said your base was quite good. Most guys won’t get bimax results as good as yours.

 

[mistywoods]

He has crazy transformations where its before and after 4 years just look it up

You guys focus too much about B&A pictures, yes they are a good indicator to see what your surgeon is capable of but each and every Face/Skull is different so what worked for some won‘t necessarily work for you! Some people have a better base for a good Maxofacial transformation and other don’t! If you already feel that Raffaini is arrogant and not clear about what he wants to do to you then Ramieri all day! This is your face don’t get fooled by Raffainis .Org Halo. You need to be 101% comfortable and confident in the Surgery plan shown to you. Ramieri all day IMO

 

[muragoat]

i do have consultation planned with pagnoni and ramieri, however my jaws are just tiny recessed but i do have narrow and recessed lower third(especially for chin). I think pagnoni could be better just for the genioplasty with vertical and horizontal advancement, but if i get ccw i feel more comfortable with ramieri

 

[muragoat]

Sure, I only have one screenshot of the final simulation as I asked to amend the plan by adding a tiny bit more downgrafting and vertical genio.

where can i see ur simulation?

 

[mistywoods]

i do have consultation planned with pagnoni and ramieri, however my jaws are just tiny recessed but i do have narrow and recessed lower third(especially for chin). I think pagnoni could be better just for the genioplasty with vertical and horizontal advancement, but if i get ccw i feel more comfortable with ramieri

Where did you reach out for consultation with Pagnoni, how long till you got a response?

 

[BlackpilledPlatypus]

where can i see ur simulation?

I’ve only got these screenshots of the original CBCT and the simulation for the final plan:

 

[muragoat]

I’ve only got these screenshots of the original CBCT and the simulation for the final plan:
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don t u have also ur own ct scan? do you know the advancements u got, did u get any widening? looking great btw

 

[muragoat]

Where did you reach out for consultation with Pagnoni, how long till you got a response?

facebook, same day. idk if i trust him don t want to get dogmaxxed

 

[BlackpilledPlatypus]

don t u have also ur own ct scan? do you know the advancements u got, did u get any widening? looking great btw

Thanks bro

Yes, I have my original CBCT, and I have a post-op CBCT too but they provided it on a CD and I can’t be bothered to find a CD drive to look at it.

I don’t remember all the movements exactly, particularly as some we changed last minute so the original plans I saved aren’t accurate.

I do know that the mandible was advanced about 9mm and 11mm (correcting asymmetry), maxilla downgraft was 4.5mm, maxilla advancement I think also around 4.5mm but not certain. Genioplasty movements I really can’t remember, but it was quite a lot of vertical movement and not that much advancement. I recall Ramieri saying the total height of my face / lower third had increased by about 13mm I think.

I did have widening too but it probably hasn’t even made a noticeable difference. I was told it would only be like 1-2mm total. I think more can become risky, but I don’t know too much about it really and I found little when researching prior to surgery. My impression was that it was a “might as well” thing if using custom plates that might just make the ramus pop a tiny bit more.