Islam, among many other false religions views the afterlife as a night club.

[Deleted member 51576]

Yes you do. But true faith has to be expressed through actions.

5ـ عَنْهُ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي نَجْرَانَ عَمَّنْ ذَكَرَهُ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيهِ السَّلام) قَالَ قُلْتُ لَهُ قَوْمٌ يَعْمَلُونَ بِالْمَعَاصِي وَيَقُولُونَ نَرْجُو فَلا يَزَالُونَ كَذَلِكَ حَتَّى يَأْتِيَهُمُ الْمَوْتُ فَقَالَ هَؤُلاءِ قَوْمٌ يَتَرَجَّحُونَ فِي الأمَانِيِّ كَذَبُوا لَيْسُوا بِرَاجِينَ إِنَّ مَنْ رَجَا شَيْئاً طَلَبَهُ وَمَنْ خَافَ مِنْ شَيْ‏ءٍ هَرَبَ مِنْهُ.
5. It is narrated from him (narrator of the Hadith above) from ibn abu al-Najran from those whom he has mentioned and who has said the following: “Once I said to Abu ‘Abdillah (a.s.) ‘Certain people commit sins and say that they hope. They continue until their death arrives.’ The Imam said, ‘Such people have strayed away in hopes. They lie and they do not have any hope. Whoever hopes to have something, he tries to find it. People fearing something, run away from it.’”
Al-Kāfi - Volume 2, Fear and Hope, Hadith #5

Hadith #5 - Fear and Hope | Thaqalayn

Fear and Hope

thaqalayn.net

2ـ عَلِيٌّ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنِ الْعَلاءِ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ مُسْلِمٍ عَنْ أَحَدِهِمَا (عَلَيهِما السَّلام) قَالَ الإيمَانُ إِقْرَارٌ وَعَمَلٌ وَالإسْلامُ إِقْرَارٌ بِلا عَمَلٍ.

2. Ali has narrated from his father from ibn abu ’Umayr from al-‘Ala’ from Muhammad ibn Muslim from one of them (the two Imams) (a.s.) who has said the following: “Faith or belief is to affirm and act accordingly. Islam is just an affirmation.”
Al-Kāfi - Volume 2, Islam Is to Spare Lives (and to Keep the Trust) But Reward Comes From Belief, Hadith #2

Hadith #2 - Islam Is to Spare Lives (and to Keep the Trust) But Reward Comes From Belief | Thaqalayn

Islam Is to Spare Lives (and to Keep the Trust) But Reward Comes From Belief

thaqalayn.net

Cold? “I heard Abu ‘Abdillah (a.s) saying, ‘When a servant (of Allah) repents in the form of the repentance of Nasuh (sincere advise to one’s soul, or name of a person who repented in the real sense), Allah then loves him, covers and protects him in this world and in the next life.’ 1 then asked, ‘How will He cover him?’ The Imam said, ‘He will make the two angels forget what they have written against him. He will inspire the parts of his body to hide his sins and the places of earth to hide the sins that he had committed thereat. Allah will meet him while there will be nothing to testify anything against him.’”

“If you shun the greater sins we shall do away with your small sins.”

The Imam said, ‘O Muhammad ibn Muslim, do you think a believing servant (of Allah) regrets his sins, asks forgiveness and repents but Allah does not accept his repentance?’ I said, ‘He, however, has done it many times. He sins, repents and asks forgiveness (from Allah).’ The Imam said, ‘Whenever a believing servant (of Allah) returns back for repentance and pleas for forgiveness, Allah returns to him with forgiveness; Allah is forgiving and merciful. He accepts repentance and effaces the evil deeds. You must never cause a believer to lose hope in the favor and mercy of Allah.’”

Again, shif'at. AFAIK, no mumin will remain in Hellfire permanently. At the very maximum, they'll enter it temporarily and then be purified and go to Jannah. (Idk if scholars believe mumineen can go to al-Araf)


idk i dont wanna debate christianity but original sin concept sounds unjust. why i gotta bear the burden of what my ancestors did? sadge

Bro, I am fully versed in the concept of “Allahs forgiveness”. That still does not answer the main concern about a guaranteed path to salvation because there is no such thing in Islam and you are always on the edge and grasp on to “his mercy”. Yes, both faith and good deeds are emphasized but they are still NOT guaranteed for jannah/paradise/heaven.

Muhammed told you himself

Say, ‘I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear warner

This is simply not the case for Christianity. I keep repeating this but it’s the foundation for our faith and extremely important.

 

[seeker]

Bro, I am fully versed in the concept of “Allahs forgiveness”. That still does not answer the main concern about a guaranteed path to salvation because there is no such thing in Islam and you are always on the edge and grasp on to “his mercy”. Yes, both faith and good deeds are emphasized but they are still NOT guaranteed for jannah/paradise/heaven.

Muhammed told you himself

Say, ‘I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear warner

This is simply not the case for Christianity. I keep repeating this but it’s the foundation for our faith and extremely important.

Seems like you did not read what I said.

All mumineen eventually go to Jannah. What is a mumin/shia? I defined in a previous message (also: https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/2/1/36/3). Note that you only have to have the intention to be a true shia't, none of us our infallible.

Yes, both faith and good deeds are emphasized but they are still NOT guaranteed for jannah/paradise/heaven.

What do you mean? Even refraining from evil and doing obligatory acts is enough to earn you Jannah.

Piety and deeds are important. Have you seen he who has taken as his god his [own] desire, and Allah has sent him astray due to knowledge and has set a seal upon his hearing and his heart and put over his vision a veil? So who will guide him after Allah ? Then will you not be reminded? (45:23)

Had the truth followed their desires, the heavens, the earth, and all those in them would have certainly been corrupted. In fact, We have brought them ˹the means to˺ their glory, but they turn away from it. (23:71)

It is not mercy that your god has allowed you to do whatever you want, good or bad, and still get eternal happiness. Unconditional love is not a mercy if the lover does not care whatever your state is, if you're rotting or not, or slowly destroying yourself because of that very 'unconditional' 'love'. It is unjust, and it is rather the opposite of mercy; you have been left to rot however you want. Uninterested is one of the ironic words you used in your previous to previous message.

 

[seeker]

1. It has been related that Abu 'Abd Allah (a.s) said: Archangel Gabriel descended to the Prophet (a.s) and said: O Muhammad! Your Lord says: One who humiliates My believing servant confronts Me with war. My believing servant has never drawn closer to Me with anything better than fulfilling the obligatory acts; and indeed, he performs the supererogatory acts for Me until I love him. So, when I love him, I become his ears that he hears with, his eyes that he sees with, his hands that he grasps with and his legs that he walks with. There is nothing I hesitate in doing like in taking the life of My believing servant. He dislikes death and I dislike causing him pain. Yet amongst the believers there are some who will not be well except by destitution and if I were to surround them with wealth, it would be evil for them; and amongst them are some who are not well except in affluence and if I were to surround them with poverty, it would be evil for them. Sometimes, My servant asks Me to fulfill a need (he has), but I deny him because of what is best for him.

 

[Psychophilly]

View attachment 2724454

It’s over my nigga

thats a beautiful thing tho, dunno why using it like that

 

[Deleted member 51576]

Seems like you did not read what I said.

All mumineen eventually go to Jannah. What is a mumin/shia? I defined in a previous message (also: https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/2/1/36/3). Note that you only have to have the intention to be a true shia't, none of us our infallible.


What do you mean? Even refraining from evil and doing obligatory acts is enough to earn you Jannah.

Piety and deeds are important. Have you seen he who has taken as his god his [own] desire, and Allah has sent him astray due to knowledge and has set a seal upon his hearing and his heart and put over his vision a veil? So who will guide him after Allah ? Then will you not be reminded? (45:23)

Had the truth followed their desires, the heavens, the earth, and all those in them would have certainly been corrupted. In fact, We have brought them ˹the means to˺ their glory, but they turn away from it. (23:71)

It is not mercy that your god has allowed you to do whatever you want, good or bad, and still get eternal happiness. Unconditional love is not a mercy if the lover does not care whatever your state is, if you're rotting or not, or slowly destroying yourself because of that very 'unconditional' 'love'. It is unjust, and it is rather the opposite of mercy; you have been left to rot however you want. Uninterested is one of the ironic words you used in your previous to previous message.

So what is your view of the fate of Sunnis then? Eternal hellfire? Does it not concern you that Allah himself did not guarantee you salvation in the Quran? Why is his mercy and sovereignty emphasized instead and it is up to Islamic scholars to bring forth the idea of salvation?

In Christianity, Jesus—God incarnate—Himself promised us salvation and eternal life. I really don’t understand why you keep writing these dissertations because it all concludes the same way—resting on Allahs will. Why is the Quran not explicit on this topic?

 

[seeker]

So what is your view of the fate of Sunnis then? Eternal hellfire? Does it not concern you that Allah himself did not guarantee you salvation in the Quran? Why is his mercy and sovereignty emphasized instead and it is up to Islamic scholars to bring forth the idea of salvation?

In Christianity, Jesus—God incarnate—Himself promised us salvation and eternal life. I really don’t understand why you keep writing these dissertations because it all concludes the same way—resting on Allahs will. Why is the Quran not explicit on this topic?

So what is your view of the fate of Sunnis then?

My father (Ibrahim al-Qummi) narrated from al-Hasan ibn Mahbub, from 'Ali ibn Rayab, from Darees al-Kinani, from Abi Ja'far عليه السلام: I said to him, "May I be sacrificed for you, what is the situation of those who are upon monotheism, and are believers in the Prophethood of Muhammad (ﷺ), from the Muslims who are sinners, the ones who die without having an Imam, and are not knowing of your Wilayah?" So he (عليه السلام) replied, "As for these people (i.e. those who have believed in the first two testimonies, and not in the third testimony), then they are in their pits [in Barzakh] and will not be able to exit from them. Then whoever has righteous deeds, and no enmity was shown by them [towards us], then a path will be created for him, leading towards Paradise. And it will not be made apparent, so the soul will be put in its pit (i.e. Barzakh) until the Day of Judgement, until it is delivered to Allah and is accounted for its good deeds and its bad deeds, so it will either go to Paradise, or to the Hellfire. So as for those people - their destination is contingent upon His Will."

Does it not concern you that Allah himself did not guarantee you salvation in the Quran?

??? what?

47:15
The description of the Paradise promised to the righteous is...

19:60
As for those who repent, believe, and do good, it is they who will be admitted into Paradise, never being denied any reward.

2:214
Do you think you will be admitted into Paradise without being tested like those before you? They were afflicted with suffering and adversity and were so ˹violently˺ shaken that ˹even˺ the Messenger and the believers with him cried out, “When will Allah’s help come?” Indeed, Allah’s help is ˹always˺ near.


99:7
So whoever does an atom’s weight of good will see it.

resting on Allahs will

Everything is contingent upon Allah's Will. But He has promised salvation, with a criteria. And He is Exalted above lying.

 

[seeker]

It is as if you do not read, or perhaps you read but do not attempt to comprehend.

Said in the message you replied to: "All mumineen eventually go to Jannah. What is a mumin/shia? I defined in a previous message"

 

[Deleted member 51576]

My father (Ibrahim al-Qummi) narrated from al-Hasan ibn Mahbub, from 'Ali ibn Rayab, from Darees al-Kinani, from Abi Ja'far عليه السلام: I said to him, "May I be sacrificed for you, what is the situation of those who are upon monotheism, and are believers in the Prophethood of Muhammad (ﷺ), from the Muslims who are sinners, the ones who die without having an Imam, and are not knowing of your Wilayah?" So he (عليه السلام) replied, "As for these people (i.e. those who have believed in the first two testimonies, and not in the third testimony), then they are in their pits [in Barzakh] and will not be able to exit from them. Then whoever has righteous deeds, and no enmity was shown by them [towards us], then a path will be created for him, leading towards Paradise. And it will not be made apparent, so the soul will be put in its pit (i.e. Barzakh) until the Day of Judgement, until it is delivered to Allah and is accounted for its good deeds and its bad deeds, so it will either go to Paradise, or to the Hellfire. So as for those people - their destination is contingent upon His Will."


??? what?

47:15
The description of the Paradise promised to the righteous is...

19:60
As for those who repent, believe, and do good, it is they who will be admitted into Paradise, never being denied any reward.

2:214
Do you think you will be admitted into Paradise without being tested like those before you? They were afflicted with suffering and adversity and were so ˹violently˺ shaken that ˹even˺ the Messenger and the believers with him cried out, “When will Allah’s help come?” Indeed, Allah’s help is ˹always˺ near.


99:7
So whoever does an atom’s weight of good will see it.



Everything is contingent upon Allah's Will. But He has promised salvation, with a criteria. And He is Exalted above lying.

47:15 —who is considered righteous?

19:60 —how much good? What is the threshold? Will Allah weigh your good deeds on a scale and measure them? Or wiwill it be similar to ancient Egyptian religion where Allah will weigh your heart against a feather to determine your good deeds?

Repent, believe, and be a good person as a prescription for salvation yet still not a guarantee.

99:7 —in 99:8 it says the opposite. “And whoever does an atoms weight of evil will see it” rendering it meaningless and emphasizing the broadness and relative nature of works-based salvation

 

[seeker]

47:15 —who is considered righteous?

19:60 —how much good? What is the threshold? Will Allah weigh your good deeds on a scale and measure them? Or wiwill it be similar to ancient Egyptian religion where Allah will weigh your heart against a feather to determine your good deeds?

Repent, believe, and be a good person as a prescription for salvation yet still not a guarantee.

99:7 —in 99:8 it says the opposite. “And whoever does an atoms weight of evil will see it” rendering it meaningless and emphasizing the broadness and relative nature of works-based salvation

2:177
۞ لَّيْسَ ٱلْبِرَّ أَن تُوَلُّوا۟ وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ وَٱلْمَغْرِبِ وَلَـٰكِنَّ ٱلْبِرَّ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَٱلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ وَٱلْكِتَـٰبِ وَٱلنَّبِيِّـۧنَ وَءَاتَى ٱلْمَالَ عَلَىٰ حُبِّهِۦ ذَوِى ٱلْقُرْبَىٰ وَٱلْيَتَـٰمَىٰ وَٱلْمَسَـٰكِينَ وَٱبْنَ ٱلسَّبِيلِ وَٱلسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِى ٱلرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتَى ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَٱلْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عَـٰهَدُوا۟ ۖ وَٱلصَّـٰبِرِينَ فِى ٱلْبَأْسَآءِ وَٱلضَّرَّآءِ وَحِينَ ٱلْبَأْسِ ۗ أُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ ٱلَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا۟ ۖ وَأُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُتَّقُونَ ١٧٧

Righteousness is not in turning your faces towards the east or the west. Rather, the righteous are those who believe in Allah, the Last Day, the angels, the Books, and the prophets; who give charity out of their cherished wealth to relatives, orphans, the poor, ˹needy˺ travellers, beggars, and for freeing captives; who establish prayer, pay alms-tax, and keep the pledges they make; and who are patient in times of suffering, adversity, and in ˹the heat of˺ battle. It is they who are true ˹in faith˺, and it is they who are mindful ˹of Allah˺.
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran



Yes. Good deeds compared to evil.



Repent, believe, and be a good person as a prescription for salvation yet still not a guarantee. ; no it is a guarantee, what?

99:8 does say that. When did I deny that you have to work to gain salvation?

 

[Deleted member 55437]

There probably isn’t an afterlife so stop worrying and coping and enjoy life

 

[seeker]

Please think before sending a response, no offense intended. But I'm tired of repeating myself. Forgive me as I did the same a while ago in this thread like you are doing now

 

[seeker]

There probably isn’t an afterlife so stop worrying and coping and enjoy life

'Probably' isn't good enough. Research.

 

[Deleted member 55437]

'Probably' isn't good enough. Research.

I respect Islam as a religion of monotheism. As a Jew the notion of an afterlife is alien to Judaism but maybe G-D has given different beliefs to gentiles (non Jews). Idk
All I know is Judaism is for Jews and we are the chosen people as Christianity and Islam are both based on our scriptures

 

[seeker]

I respect Islam as a religion of monotheism. As a Jew the notion of an afterlife is alien to Judaism but maybe G-D has given different beliefs to gentiles (non Jews). Idk
All I know is Judaism is for Jews and we are the chosen people as Christianity and Islam are both based on our scriptures

Based on your scriptures? There are common texts because they're all from God. Difference being we believe the original Scriptures are lost beneath corruptions. Also, obviously because the Qur'an also frequently discusses Bani Israel and the Torah and Musa and Aaroon (as)

 

[Deleted member 51576]

Please think before sending a response, no offense intended. But I'm tired of repeating myself. Forgive me as I did the same a while ago in this thread like you are doing now

I don’t believe in any works based religion.

I don’t believe in any religion that vaguely rewords the “just be a good person and God will reward you” mantra—including, but not limited to Islam.

Salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned by any amount of works. All the best to you shiabrah, but Islam is not for me! I will follow Jesus until the very last moment that I pass from this earth.

I don’t know much, if anything regarding the differences of Shia vs Sunni but I do like Shias more due because they’re nicer and they permit Mutah. Just stop lashing yourselves pls.

 

[Deleted member 55437]

Based on your scriptures? There are common texts because they're all from God. Difference being we believe the original Scriptures are lost beneath corruptions. Also, obviously because the Qur'an also frequently discusses Bani Israel and the Torah and Musa and Aaroon (as)

The Tanach is for Jews only. Non Jews can’t even read them. Islam is likely G/D’s way of expanding monotheism to non Jews but we’re still chosen. G-D never mentions an afterlife much in any of the Tanach. Judaism doesn’t care about after death

 

[seeker]

I don’t believe in any works based religion.

I don’t believe in any religion that vaguely rewords the “just be a good person and God will reward you” mantra—including, but not limited to Islam.

Salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned by any amount of works. All the best to you shiabrah, but Islam is not for me! I will follow Jesus until the very last moment that I pass from this earth.

I don’t know much, if anything regarding the differences of Shia vs Sunni but I do like Shias more due because they’re nicer and they permit Mutah.

"Salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned by any amount of works..."

A gift from God indeed. An overcompensation for our piety and the work that came from that piety and faith, because God is Most Merciful. We don't believe in 'just be a good person' faith is important. Though non-Muslims and non-Shias can be saved from punishment (going to Jannah is different, but also may be possible if someone was unintentionally ignorant of islam but was still a good person)

Your logic is flawed. No, it has no basis, would be the correct wording

 

[seeker]

The Tanach is for Jews only. Non Jews can’t even read them. Islam is likely G/D’s way of expanding monotheism to non Jews but we’re still chosen. G-D never mentions an afterlife much in any of the Tanach. Judaism doesn’t care about after death

Yes we believe the Torah was for the Jews, but was corrupted and eventually abrogated by the current Scripture of God, the Qur'an

 

[Deleted member 51576]

The Tanach is for Jews only. Non Jews can’t even read them. Islam is likely G/D’s way of expanding monotheism to non Jews but we’re still chosen. G-D never mentions an afterlife much in any of the Tanach. Judaism doesn’t care about after death

Why are you commenting in my thread my nigga LOL. Nobody cares

 

[Deleted member 55437]

Yes we believe the Torah was for the Jews, but was corrupted and eventually abrogated by the current Scripture of God, the Qur'an

The Quran is for non Jews I agree. The Torah is for Jews and there’s no mention of an afterlife at all and that’s ok

 

[Deleted member 55437]

Why are you commenting in my thread my nigga LOL. Nobody cares

Ok incel

 

[Deleted member 51576]

The Quran is for non Jews I agree. The Torah is for Jews and there’s no mention of an afterlife at all and that’s ok

Bahahahaaahahahahahaha

 

[GuyFromSingapore]

I like reading about Christianity and Islam. But Hinduism is the perfect religion for me because it is Ascetic.

 

[Deleted member 51576]

I like reading about Christianity and Islam. But Hinduism is the perfect religion for me because it is Ascetic.

Jesus fasted for 40 days and 40 nights. Ascetism is very prevalent in many Christian traditions

 

[GuyFromSingapore]

Jesus fasted for 40 days and 40 nights. Ascetism is very prevalent in many Christian traditions

Yeah but Asceticism is even more extreme in Hinduism.

In order to become a Rishi/Sage(not "Prophet", because Prophecy is only one of the many special powers acquired by Sages), you need to not have any sexual desire, minimize all pleasure seeking and retreat into a forest to acquire mystical experience and realize higher truths.

The whole Upanishads are just that.

But yes Jesus was a great Ascetic. That's why Christian monks followed His footsteps.

 

[Egyptianmogger]

Christcuck cope religions are all the same, blackpill is the only truth.

 

[Deleted member 51576]

Yeah but Asceticism is even more extreme in Hinduism.

In order to become a Rishi/Sage(not "Prophet", because Prophecy is only one of the many special powers acquired by Sages), you need to not have any sexual desire, minimize all pleasure seeking and retreat into a forest to acquire mystical experience and realize higher truths.

The whole Upanishads are just that.

But yes Jesus was a great Ascetic. That's why Christian monks followed His footsteps.

Do you think a God created you? How does Hinduism even work? What do you think happens when you die? Why did God create us according to Hinduism?

 

[GuyFromSingapore]

Do you think a God created you? How does Hinduism even work? What do you think happens when you die? Why did God create us according to Hinduism?

Yeah obviously...

- The Creator aspect of God is known and depicted as the 4 headed Brahma(4 heads to represent the 4 cardinal directions).

- I'm still trying to figure out "the purpose of life" as per my own Mysticism/Asceticism.

Bhagavad Gita however clearly states that "worship of God" will liberate you from reincarnation.

That's also what I want. I mean it would be fun to travel any realm and observe the things within them if God gives you special powers as a Rishi/Sage but I don't think I want that.

- my ambition is to just meditate upon, praise and worship God constantly to "rise above" and overcome material existence.

Realize the Mysteries of God and His existence and how He projects realms into existence. To cleave onto the Transcendant aspect of God.

I'm sick and tired of God being the Creator, I want to realize God before He created the worlds when He was Pure and Alone By Himself.

"1 In the beginning all this verily was Atman only, one and without a second. There was nothing else that winked. He bethought Himself: "Let Me now create the worlds."

2 He created these worlds: Ambhah" ~ Aitareya Upanishad.

- most Orthodox Schools of Hinduism just say "God created the world because it is within His power to do so and an expression of His nature, like a sport"

For me, there is no creation, physical existence is an illusion, I am here now in an embodied state trapped in this world with a body because I refused to worship God and deviated from Him. "Fall of Adam from Garden of Eden".