Jesus Christ is the truth, anyone who thinks otherwise, engage in respectful debate. Theism is logical and definitely the way.

[AbyssalMax]

We can debate other hot topics and world views too, I just like debating and I want the world to ideally be Christian.

 

[afroheadluke]

THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST WILL 100% HAVE A POSITIVE OUTCOME ON YOUR LIFE
YOU DONT EVEN GOTTA BELIEVE IN THE SUPERNATURAL STUFF JUST BELIEVE IN HIS WORDS

 

[tunisianropemaxxer]

Tenth billion thread ive seen talk abt this

 

[Apchun144]

Debate in question would be you addressing your own holy book as a proof, isn’t it

 

[AbyssalMax]

Debate in question would be you addressing your own holy book as a proof, isn’t it

Not at all, we can debate on the existence of a God, if that's what you'd like? I was atheist for a little while until I concluded Eastern Orthodoxy.

 

[iGoontoTheHolocaust]

nah

 

[Apchun144]

Not at all, we can debate on the existence of a God, if that's what you'd like? I was atheist for a little while until I concluded Eastern Orthodoxy.

No i don’t wanna

 

[AbyssalMax]

No i don’t wanna

I can't say anything to that, other than it's pure ignorance. God is necessary and logical. But good luck trying to find some truth. Or not trying, I guess.

 

[AbyssalMax]

nah

Again, just pure ignorance and no reason. You've subscribed to a world view and you can't even fend for it.

 

[iGoontoTheHolocaust]

Again, just pure ignorance and no reason. You've subscribed to a world view and you can't even fend for it.

lol religion is jester smoking that jewsus pack christcuck

 

[ifconfig]

Christians are getting desperate, you rarely see Muslims making this many threads even though there are plenty of them on this site

 

[egyptiansub5]

Tenth billion thread ive seen talk abt this

check snap nigga

 

[afroheadluke]

Christians are getting desperate, you rarely see Muslims making this many threads even though there are plenty of them on this site

?
you not converting to Christianity literally has no effect on our lives
we’re just tryna help just like with anything else if u don’t want help ok then
wish you the best of luck

 

[AbyssalMax]

lol religion is jester smoking that jewsus pack christcuck

This sentence just showcases you entirely lol. Your reasoning ability, your incel personality, everything. I can almost visualise the sad person you are. Things will get better for you, just hang in there. There are good arguments for atheism but it seems your troubled. I hope you can heal.

 

[highpotentialmtn]

Christians are getting desperate, you rarely see Muslims making this many threads even though there are plenty of them on this site

Because Christians are actually passionate about their religion and Christ's teaches us to spread the gospel and the word of God. Meanwhile, Muslims follow a literal pedophile and false prophet.

 

[AbyssalMax]

Christians are getting desperate, you rarely see Muslims making this many threads even though there are plenty of them on this site

Or it's more likely that there are more Christians? Most people here are Western afterall.

 

[iGoontoTheHolocaust]

This sentence just showcases you entirely lol. Your reasoning ability, your incel personality, everything. I can almost visualise the sad person you are. Things will get better for you, just hang in there. There are good arguments for atheism but it seems your troubled. I hope you can heal.

dnr this essay you fucking jew lover

if jesus and the all loving god you say was real we would all be chad

 

[ifconfig]

?
you not converting to Christianity literally has no effect on our lives
we’re just tryna help just like with anything else if u don’t want help ok then
wish you the best of luck

some Christians here that I've talked to are aggressive but u seem ok tho

 

[tokaeyyer]

over for religioncels
all your believes and all your evidence is just a man made book and history you cant prove so why even cope

 

[afroheadluke]

some Christians here that I've talked to are aggressive but u seem ok tho

so random

 

[Sacrimoon]

check snap nigga

Yall actually have each others snaps from this fuckass forum?

 

[egyptiansub5]

Yall actually have each others snaps from this fuckass forum?

nigga we met irl

 

[ifconfig]

so random

Anytime I ask a Christian a question I either get dodged or get called low IQ

 

[Sacrimoon]

I find it hard to believe in a god that won’t even provide any undeniable proof of existence.
You have to know about the concept of a god to even believe in it, and if you were never introduced to that in your life, youre just gonna be sent to eternal fucking torture. That seems evil to me.

Plus praying doesnt do anything, people still die and suffer in unjustified ways, and god is letting that happen.

 

[AbyssalMax]

dnr this essay you fucking jew lover

if jesus and the all loving god you say was real we would all be chad

First of all, if everyone was attractive, no one would be. So someone needs to suffer for another to not suffer, effectively works like an economy. As for religion, do you think God has an arbitrary beauty standard? We have free will and we create the environments we are in. Your parents chose to be with each other and make you, you could have not existed but you do. The school system, social media, expectations etc. All free will. God just asks one thing, and that's to follow His word. And you will be granted eternal life.

 

[iGoontoTheHolocaust]

First of all, if everyone was attractive, no one would be. So someone needs to suffer for another to not suffer, effectively works like an economy. As for religion, do you think God has an arbitrary beauty standard? We have free will and we create the environments we are in. Your parents chose to be with each other and make you, you could have not existed but you do. The school system, social media, expectations etc. All free will. God just asks one thing, and that's to follow His word. And you will be granted eternal life.

dnr christcuck

 

[AbyssalMax]

I find it hard to believe in a god that won’t even provide any undeniable proof of existence.
You have to know about the concept of a god to even believe in it, and if you were never introduced to that in your life, youre just gonna be sent to eternal fucking torture. That seems evil to me.

Plus praying doesnt do anything, people still die and suffer in unjustified ways, and god is letting that happen.

This is a very good argument, and honestly something that took me a while to understand. First thing, physical death is meaningless to God, only spiritual death is. Furthermore, no you won't go to Hell if you never knew about the Gospels, only if you actively rejected it. Praying isn't a spell for something to happen when you do it, God suffered as Jesus. Brutally tortured and ridiculed. It's because we have free will to act as we want. Him controlling us imposes on that. If God appeared to us, we no longer have the free will to believe Him, all obedience would come out of fear and not actual love. Kind of like if a rich man lies to his wife before getting married. Finally, it is a faith. Christianity is a test of faith and the question is, whether you can maintain it to see if you're worthy. Good people don't go Heaven, the faithful do.

 

[AbyssalMax]

Anytime I ask a Christian a question I either get dodged or get called low IQ

Ask me any question, I'll try my best to answer. I apologise if anyone was rude or unreasonable, this is an incel forum after all.

 

[AbyssalMax]

dnr christcuck

To be unreasonable makes you no better than a mutt. Only animals like that have no reason.

 

[iGoontoTheHolocaust]

To be unreasonable makes you no better than a mutt. Only animals like that have no reason.

dnr

 

[ifconfig]

Ask me any question, I'll try my best to answer. I apologise if anyone was rude or unreasonable, this is an incel forum after all.

Nah I've been through these discussions already, usually it's not the Bible itself but the idea of God. It's not just this forum but Christian sites for those with questions and doubts, this was when I was struggling with agnosticism (although I wasn't raised Christian) but I've accepted that I'll never really believe in God.

 

[Orka]

We can debate other hot topics and world views too, I just like debating and I want the world to ideally be Christian.

This is the millionth thread made on this saturated topic

Religious people won't back down from their belief because of a debate, atheists won't back down from their belief because of a debate.

I've debated on here before and a user just literally pasted a gpt response with the AI "-" and weird bold formatting, its useless.

If there was a subjective truth to religion or non-religion, then itd be settled, but its not, there's evidence supporting both sides & the answer isn't anywhere near clear

 

[unstable]

1. prove god,
2. then prove jesus is that god

 

[jester patell]

Tenth billion thread ive seen talk abt this

Still not talked about enough

 

[Gamerspyy786]

We can debate other hot topics and world views too, I just like debating and I want the world to ideally be Christian.

I believe in Jesus but I don’t believe he was God

What kinda of evidences do you have to suggest he was God

 

[jester patell]

1. prove god,
2. then prove jesus is that god

If it were fact that Jesus was God it wouldn’t be faith

 

[AbyssalMax]

Nah I've been through these discussions already, usually it's not the Bible itself but the idea of God. It's not just this forum but Christian sites for those with questions and doubts, this was when I was struggling with agnosticism (although I wasn't raised Christian) but I've accepted that I'll never really believe in God.

I see, you don't have to categorise yourself so fast, even now for me, I wouldn't say I'll never not believe in God. I can explain the logical proof as to why God must exist, if you're willing to read:
All outcomes are subject to chance. Therefore, a framework for probability must exist, for us, it's our universe. As for us being born, it was a chance our parents met and made us. Then we keep going back till our ancestors, then some microorganisms, then the Earth, now we are at the beginning of the universe. So, we follow a list of chance based outcomes that are all dependent on each other, to the beginning of the universe.

Now that begs the question, how did the universe come about? The universe could have totally different physical constants and still work perfectly fine mathematically. Why was our universe fine tuned like this? Especially in a way that allows consciousness. It also has a beginning, so what began it? That means there is a possible reality, where it could either be different or not have begun. The odds seem to be low, but it has happened, so that's that. But on what framework of probability was the universe chanced on? There is nothing before the universe, so there is no probability.

Therefore, there must be a necessary being, one that can never be another way, never not exist, never be subject to chance, and not dependent on another object or being. Otherwise, if the necessary being was chanced, that would beg the question on what framework of probability was it chanced on? An infinite regress of dependency and being chanced is possible, but that doesn't help, as that doesn't explain how the infinite regress comes about. This necessary being resulted in a universe with consciousness. This is God.
TL;DR
Contingent means subject to chance
All things are contingent, they exist but could have not existed. Anything that is contingent depends on something else for its existence. The totality of contingent beings cannot explain itself. Therefore, there must exist a being that is necessary so its existence does not depend on anything else. This necessary being provides the ultimate explanation for why anything exists rather than nothing.

 

[AbyssalMax]

1. prove god,
2. then prove jesus is that god

I see, you don't have to categorise yourself so fast, even now for me, I wouldn't say I'll never not believe in God. I can explain the logical proof as to why God must exist, if you're willing to read:
All outcomes are subject to chance. Therefore, a framework for probability must exist, for us, it's our universe. As for us being born, it was a chance our parents met and made us. Then we keep going back till our ancestors, then some microorganisms, then the Earth, now we are at the beginning of the universe. So, we follow a list of chance based outcomes that are all dependent on each other, to the beginning of the universe.

Now that begs the question, how did the universe come about? The universe could have totally different physical constants and still work perfectly fine mathematically. Why was our universe fine tuned like this? Especially in a way that allows consciousness. It also has a beginning, so what began it? That means there is a possible reality, where it could either be different or not have begun. The odds seem to be low, but it has happened, so that's that. But on what framework of probability was the universe chanced on? There is nothing before the universe, so there is no probability.

Therefore, there must be a necessary being, one that can never be another way, never not exist, never be subject to chance, and not dependent on another object or being. Otherwise, if the necessary being was chanced, that would beg the question on what framework of probability was it chanced on? An infinite regress of dependency and being chanced is possible, but that doesn't help, as that doesn't explain how the infinite regress comes about. This necessary being resulted in a universe with consciousness. This is God.
TL;DR
Contingent means subject to chance
All things are contingent, they exist but could have not existed. Anything that is contingent depends on something else for its existence. The totality of contingent beings cannot explain itself. Therefore, there must exist a being that is necessary so its existence does not depend on anything else. This necessary being provides the ultimate explanation for why anything exists rather than nothing.

As for Jesus being God, 2025 years ago, a very strange man was born and something even stranger happened during His life, causing countless to worship under persecution. All the people close to Him claimed one thing, that He said He was God and did all sorts of things. They were martyred for this belief and frankly I believe them. For a religion to spread so rapidly to the point where it takes over Rome, despite persecution, on no basis, is hard to believe. There is no religon that spread this uniquely other than Islam. But the Muslims weren't persecuted. Then we were given a book, this book is the word of this man. So I follow this book.

 

[AbyssalMax]

I believe in Jesus but I don’t believe he was God

What kinda of evidences do you have to suggest he was God

What do you mean you believe in Jesus? That He was real? Because that's just a historical fact. Or are you saying He was just a prophet?

 

[AbyssalMax]

This is the millionth thread made on this saturated topic

Religious people won't back down from their belief because of a debate, atheists won't back down from their belief because of a debate.

I've debated on here before and a user just literally pasted a gpt response with the AI "-" and weird bold formatting, its useless.

If there was a subjective truth to religion or non-religion, then itd be settled, but its not, there's evidence supporting both sides & the answer isn't anywhere near clear

I get that, but I'd appreciate if you looked into my arguments. Furthermore, if agnostic, isn't leaning towards theism just ideal?

I see, you don't have to categorise yourself so fast, even now for me, I wouldn't say I'll never not believe in God. I can explain the logical proof as to why God must exist, if you're willing to read:
All outcomes are subject to chance. Therefore, a framework for probability must exist, for us, it's our universe. As for us being born, it was a chance our parents met and made us. Then we keep going back till our ancestors, then some microorganisms, then the Earth, now we are at the beginning of the universe. So, we follow a list of chance based outcomes that are all dependent on each other, to the beginning of the universe.

Now that begs the question, how did the universe come about? The universe could have totally different physical constants and still work perfectly fine mathematically. Why was our universe fine tuned like this? Especially in a way that allows consciousness. It also has a beginning, so what began it? That means there is a possible reality, where it could either be different or not have begun. The odds seem to be low, but it has happened, so that's that. But on what framework of probability was the universe chanced on? There is nothing before the universe, so there is no probability.

Therefore, there must be a necessary being, one that can never be another way, never not exist, never be subject to chance, and not dependent on another object or being. Otherwise, if the necessary being was chanced, that would beg the question on what framework of probability was it chanced on? An infinite regress of dependency and being chanced is possible, but that doesn't help, as that doesn't explain how the infinite regress comes about. This necessary being resulted in a universe with consciousness. This is God.
TL;DR
Contingent means subject to chance
All things are contingent, they exist but could have not existed. Anything that is contingent depends on something else for its existence. The totality of contingent beings cannot explain itself. Therefore, there must exist a being that is necessary so its existence does not depend on anything else. This necessary being provides the ultimate explanation for why anything exists rather than nothing.

As for Jesus being God, 2025 years ago, a very strange man was born and something even stranger happened during his life, causing countless to worship under persecution. All the people close to Him claimed one thing, that He said He was God and did all sorts of things. They were martyred for this belief and frankly I believe them. For a religion to spread so rapidly to the point where it takes over Rome, despite persecution, on no basis, is hard to believe. There is no religon that spread this uniquely other than Islam. But the Muslims weren't persecuted. Then we were given a book, this book is the word of this man. So I follow this book.

 

[unstable]

I see, you don't have to categorise yourself so fast, even now for me, I wouldn't say I'll never not believe in God. I can explain the logical proof as to why God must exist, if you're willing to read:
All outcomes are subject to chance. Therefore, a framework for probability must exist, for us, it's our universe. As for us being born, it was a chance our parents met and made us. Then we keep going back till our ancestors, then some microorganisms, then the Earth, now we are at the beginning of the universe. So, we follow a list of chance based outcomes that are all dependent on each other, to the beginning of the universe.

Now that begs the question, how did the universe come about? The universe could have totally different physical constants and still work perfectly fine mathematically. Why was our universe fine tuned like this? Especially in a way that allows consciousness. It also has a beginning, so what began it? That means there is a possible reality, where it could either be different or not have begun. The odds seem to be low, but it has happened, so that's that. But on what framework of probability was the universe chanced on? There is nothing before the universe, so there is no probability.

Therefore, there must be a necessary being, one that can never be another way, never not exist, never be subject to chance, and not dependent on another object or being. Otherwise, if the necessary being was chanced, that would beg the question on what framework of probability was it chanced on? An infinite regress of dependency and being chanced is possible, but that doesn't help, as that doesn't explain how the infinite regress comes about. This necessary being resulted in a universe with consciousness. This is God.
TL;DR
Contingent means subject to chance
All things are contingent, they exist but could have not existed. Anything that is contingent depends on something else for its existence. The totality of contingent beings cannot explain itself. Therefore, there must exist a being that is necessary so its existence does not depend on anything else. This necessary being provides the ultimate explanation for why anything exists rather than nothing.

As for Jesus being God, 2025 years ago, a very strange man was born and something even stranger happened during his life, causing countless to worship under persecution. All the people close to Him claimed one thing, that He said He was God and did all sorts of things. They were martyred for this belief and frankly I believe them. For a religion to spread so rapidly to the point where it takes over Rome, despite persecution, on no basis, is hard to believe. There is no religon that spread this uniquely other than Islam. But the Muslims weren't persecuted. Then we were given a book, this book is the word of this man. So I follow this book.

hmm.. teleological argument is extremely sound, but maybe it appears fine tuned to us because we are exist to witness it?

communism spread under prosecution too it isn't more widespread than christianity because its harder to incorporate and it didn't work most of the time you don't understand how far humans will go for an idea.

 

[lucifer88]

THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST WILL 100% HAVE A POSITIVE OUTCOME ON YOUR LIFE
YOU DONT EVEN GOTTA BELIEVE IN THE SUPERNATURAL STUFF JUST BELIEVE IN HIS WORDS

 

[AbyssalMax]

hmm.. teleological argument is extremely sound, but maybe it appears fine tuned to us because we are exist to witness it?

communism spread under prosecution too it isn't more widespread than christianity because its harder to incorporate and it didn't work most of the time you don't understand how far humans will go for an idea.

Us existing to witness it doesn't explain why it is the way it is. And on what framework of probability this low probability object was chanced on. There was nothing before the universe, so there is no framework of probability, therefore there must be a necessary being. And this necessary being resulted in our fine tuned universe that allows for consciousness.

As for the second argument you have, I have to agree with you. But it doesn't explain the people closest to Jesus claiming the things they did, something very strange definitely happened 2000ish years ago. And I think past the idea of a necessary being, it becomes up to you and down to faith.

 

[unstable]

Us existing to witness it doesn't explain why it is the way it is. And on what framework of probability this low probability object was chanced on. There was nothing before the universe, so there is no framework of probability, therefore there must be a necessary being. And this necessary being resulted in our fine tuned universe that allows for consciousness.

As for the second argument you have, I have to agree with you. But it doesn't explain the people closest to Jesus claiming the things they did, something very strange definitely happened 2000ish years ago. And I think past the idea of a necessary being, it becomes up to you and down to faith.

its survival bias maybe, we are alive so we can understand it if we weren't there nobody would have cared about universe, for billions of years there was no life then when sentience emerges we think its god.

even Prophet Muhammad's followers claim his prophethood but you won't believe it and follow their religion would you?

ultimately all religions are man made.

 

[ifconfig]

I see, you don't have to categorise yourself so fast, even now for me, I wouldn't say I'll never not believe in God. I can explain the logical proof as to why God must exist, if you're willing to read:
All outcomes are subject to chance. Therefore, a framework for probability must exist, for us, it's our universe. As for us being born, it was a chance our parents met and made us. Then we keep going back till our ancestors, then some microorganisms, then the Earth, now we are at the beginning of the universe. So, we follow a list of chance based outcomes that are all dependent on each other, to the beginning of the universe.

Now that begs the question, how did the universe come about? The universe could have totally different physical constants and still work perfectly fine mathematically. Why was our universe fine tuned like this? Especially in a way that allows consciousness. It also has a beginning, so what began it? That means there is a possible reality, where it could either be different or not have begun. The odds seem to be low, but it has happened, so that's that. But on what framework of probability was the universe chanced on? There is nothing before the universe, so there is no probability.

Therefore, there must be a necessary being, one that can never be another way, never not exist, never be subject to chance, and not dependent on another object or being. Otherwise, if the necessary being was chanced, that would beg the question on what framework of probability was it chanced on? An infinite regress of dependency and being chanced is possible, but that doesn't help, as that doesn't explain how the infinite regress comes about. This necessary being resulted in a universe with consciousness. This is God.
TL;DR
Contingent means subject to chance
All things are contingent, they exist but could have not existed. Anything that is contingent depends on something else for its existence. The totality of contingent beings cannot explain itself. Therefore, there must exist a being that is necessary so its existence does not depend on anything else. This necessary being provides the ultimate explanation for why anything exists rather than nothing.

Thank you, a much better answer than I'm normally given. I'll take it into consideration.

 

[AbyssalMax]

its survival bias maybe, we are alive so we can understand it if we weren't there nobody would have cared about universe, for billions of years there was no life then when sentience emerges we think its god.

even Prophet Muhammad's followers claim his prophethood but you won't believe it and follow their religion would you?

ultimately all religions are man made.

When sentience emerged, that's when the contingent outcomes of this universe could understand where we are. The physical laws of this universe allow for consciousness. Time isn't relevant for the necessary being. And think about it this way, if the necessary being didn't love us, or was neutral to us, why would it allow us to be conscious or be anything at all?

It couldn't have been chance but then again on what framework of probability would the necessary being be acting on? When there is no creation or probability. The clear solution to this is that it was willed into existence, this avoids the issue of probability. And is logically sound.

As for Prophet Muhammad, he was a lustful man who raped a poor child. His religion wields carnal desires to control carnal men, to me it is obvious it is demonic.

 

[AbyssalMax]

Thank you, a much better answer than I'm normally given. I'll take it into consideration.

Sure, if you find any logic gaps/rebuttals or questions in general lmk, I'm always willing to answer. I'll be revisiting the forum every so often. May God make your journey easy.

 

[ifconfig]

Sure, if you find any logic gaps/rebuttals or questions in general lmk, I'm always willing to answer. I'll be revisiting the forum every so often. May God make your journey easy.

Well if I manage to get over the hurdle of God's existence there is all the other stuff. I was raised Muslim and Islam shares a lot of the same stories with Christianity and Judaism and the Jewish and Christianity parts which you also have to accept most of it to be Muslim is super hard to believe, it's what caused me to drift away from religion.

 

[unstable]

When sentience emerged, that's when the contingent outcomes of this universe could understand where we are. The physical laws of this universe allow for consciousness. Time isn't relevant for the necessary being. And think about it this way, if the necessary being didn't love us, or was neutral to us, why would it allow us to be conscious or be anything at all?

It couldn't have been chance but then again on what framework of probability would the necessary being be acting on? When there is no creation or probability. The clear solution to this is that it was willed into existence, this avoids the issue of probability. And is logically sound.

As for Prophet Muhammad, he was a lustful man who raped a poor child. His religion wields carnal desires to control carnal men, to me it is obvious it is demonic.

hmm, ok so you have proven necessary being with teleological argument,
why did this necessary being create us?

also another point many worlds interpretation is now consensus among scientists to explain double slit experiments.
which means that probability is still possible as there are many worlds.

there is no where in quran where age of aisha is mentioned its written centuries after Prophet's birth
also i am not muslim.

 

[AbyssalMax]

Well if I manage to get over the hurdle of God's existence there is all the other stuff. I was raised Muslim and Islam shares a lot of the same stories with Christianity and Judaism and the Jewish and Christianity part of it which you also have to accept most of it to be Muslim is super hard to believe, it's what caused me to drift away from religion.

I totally understand you, honestly even I find it hard to believe at times. But I just have faith in God, you can't join Judaism as you have to be born into it. As for Islam vs Christianity, this has been ongoing since the times of our ancestors.

I believe in Chrsitianity as I believe Islam wields carnal desires to control carnal men. Muhammad and the poor child and further laws were made for all his deeds. Concubines being allowed from war without marriage, 72 virgins in heaven, polygamy and him marrying his son's wife, women being half a man etc etc. This is all sin. It's, quite frankly, evil. This is my view on things, my best friend is Muslim, he is extremely intelligent, far more than me. But he's still Muslim.

I still wish you the best of luck, and that you find your divine purpose.