John Mew on Adult Changes

[Babushkacatlady]

The numbers and and mechanisms he gives line up with my research, found this on facebook.

 

[Ocelot]

6-8mm change JFL

just believe everything he says theory

They started off with good intentions but most of their more recent claims after they got famous are bs

 

[Babushkacatlady]

6-8mm change JFL

just believe everything he says theory

They started off with good intentions but most of their more recent claims after they got famous are bs

The remodeling rate according to my research is somewhere around 0.6mm per year after 25, maybe close to 1mm a year from 18-25 which can become 6-8mm in 10-15 years, plus there's no way this guy can make money off this anymore. He can't even practice because of a patient conflict and confidentiality issue they got him for back in 2018. Even Mike is barely taking on new patients due to influx.

 

[spark]

What a lying shitbag. Remember this is his best adult result:

 

[Babushkacatlady]

What a lying shitbag. Remember this is his best adult result:

That adult woman was one of his results, but I have definitely seen far better adult cases from him and Mike. Even if you take the lighting and angle into consideration there is a bit of change in her mid facial contour especially in the nasolabial and suborbital area. The others I have not seen in his records, they are from other practitioners.

 

[spark]

That adult woman was one of his results, but I have definitely seen far better adult cases from him and Mike. The others I have not seen in his records, they are from others.

I have never seen any case of any adult improvement that wasn't lens distortion. He's a fraud.

 

[Babushkacatlady]

I have never seen any case of any adult improvement that wasn't lens distortion. He's a fraud.

1 year result from woman in late 30s, I think she was 37. Sure the lighting tone and angle may be a bit different but there's a very visible change.

Most of the records are being kept out of public view due to patient confidentiality and demand. I know this with 100 percent certainty.

There is nothing keeping this from working in principle. I come from a background related to this which is why I am able to provide information and have contacts in this profession.

 

[spark]

View attachment 1055192
1 year result from woman in late 30s, I think she was 37. Sure the lighting tone and angle may be a bit different but there's a very visible change.

Most of the records are being kept out of public view due to patient confidentiality and demand. I know this with 100 percent certainty.

There is nothing keeping this from working in principle. I come from a background related to this which is why I am able to provide information and have contacts in this profession.

just lose 10 pounds then put your tongue on the roof of your mouth then claim change theory

 

[Ocelot]

View attachment 1055192
1 year result from woman in late 30s, I think she was 37. Sure the lighting tone and angle may be a bit different but there's a very visible change.

Most of the records are being kept out of public view due to patient confidentiality and demand. I know this with 100 percent certainty.

There is nothing keeping this from working in principle. I come from a background related to this which is why I am able to provide information and have contacts in this profession.

why don't they use reproduceable angles and lighting?

Or better yet, why not use a lateral ceph and compare the position of ceph landmarks or superimpose the new one on the old one?

 

[Babushkacatlady]

just lose 10 pounds then put your tongue on the roof of your mouth then claim change theory

Lol you think you'd look like that after losing 10 lbs? Look at how the malar and lip contour and mandibular body length changed.

I think you'd try to find a way to dispute any change I gave you so there's no point in arguing.

 

[spark]

Lol you think you'd look like that after losing 10 lbs? Look at how the malar and lip contour and mandibular body length changed.

I think you'd try to find a way to dispute any change I gave you so there's no point in arguing.

if you put your tongue on the roof of your mouth your mandible comes forward a tiny bit too

it's basically a combination of tongue posture less bf% and an angle fraud

 

[Babushkacatlady]

why don't they use reproduceable angles and lighting?

Or better yet, why not use a lateral ceph and compare the position of ceph landmarks or superimpose the new one on the old one?

Lateral cephs barely show change. All the landmarks change their relative positions with natural facial change, even Sella turcica and the cranial base. That's why soft tissue will be the best indicator of change. Even more modern Jaw surgeons agree with this premise which is why surgeons like Gunson will primarily do soft tissue analysis and planning with very minor cephs. The only usefulness of cephs is mainly in showing growth direction of a growing child.

 

[spark]

Lol you think you'd look like that after losing 10 lbs? Look at how the malar and lip contour and mandibular body length changed.

I think you'd try to find a way to dispute any change I gave you so there's no point in arguing.

Coceancig on Mew's biobloc:

Coceancig's results:

Dr Paul Coceancig's results

Paul Coceancig is a Sydney based surgeon and a pioneer of IMDO. He also does the standard BSSO, SARPE and LE FORT 1.

looksmax.org

I'll rather trust him than Mew's frauded photos.

 

[Babushkacatlady]

Coceancig on Mew's biobloc:
View attachment 1055212

Coceancig's results:

Dr Paul Coceancig's results

Paul Coceancig is a Sydney based surgeon and a pioneer of IMDO. He also does the standard BSSO, SARPE and LE FORT 1.

looksmax.org

I'll rather trust him than Mew's frauded photos.

Paul's got a good distraction technique going, good on him. Can help solve severe adult cases and I've seen the lectures he's given on it.

The mandible doesn't grow in biobloc, the condyle and cranial base remodel such that the mandible containing portion of the skull changes shape thereby closing the Ba-S-N (Saddle) Angle. The mandible then also changes shape with an upright ramus, low gonial angle, and space for teeth.

 

[Ocelot]

Lateral cephs barely show change. All the landmarks change their relative positions with natural facial change, even Sella turcica and the cranial base. That's why soft tissue will be the best indicator of change. Even more modern Jaw surgeons agree with this premise which is why surgeons like Gunson will primarily do soft tissue analysis and planning with very minor cephs. The only usefulness of cephs is mainly in showing growth direction of a growing child.

For soft tissue to change, hard tissue has to, which would be evident on cephs. Anteroposition of the jaws can be measured in multiple ways, not just sna/snb or relative to cranial base.

You talk as if the cranial base, nasion, sella, or any ceph landmarks just change naturally, their movement is negligible after puberty.

You are effectively saying those two bs before/afters are more reliable than a ceph, lmao at this delusion

it's not even soft tissue analysis like measuring facial convexity or nasion/chin line in reproducible angles. it's just two useless before/afters

 

[Babushkacatlady]

For soft tissue to change, hard tissue has to, which would be evident on cephs. Anteroposition of the jaws can be measured in multiple ways, not just sna/snb or relative to cranial base.

You talk as if the cranial base, nasion, sella, or any ceph landmarks just change naturally, their movement is negligible after puberty.

You are effectively saying those two bs before/afters are more reliable than a ceph, lmao at this delusion

it's not even soft tissue analysis like measuring facial convexity or nasion/chin line in reproducible angles. it's just two useless before/afters

They sure can, Sella especially moves up after maxillary forward movement and remodeling and so can the saddle angle even after puberty since these are cancellous bones that change relationship amongst one another suturually, structurally(remodeling), and via a synchondrosis (The sphenoid-occipital synchondrosis, this one fuses after puberty but can still have some flexion as any cranial osteopath will tell you). Hard to see it for yourself unless you are using fixed cephalometric landmarks. Call it delusion all you want, I call it advancement in craniometric and cephalometric science.

 

[spark]

Paul's got a good distraction technique going, good on him. Can help solve severe adult cases and I've seen the lectures he's given on it.

The mandible doesn't grow in biobloc, the condyle and cranial base remodel such that the mandible containing portion of the skull changes shape thereby closing the Ba-S-N (Saddle) Angle. The mandible then also changes shape with an upright ramus, low gonial angle, and space for teeth.

There might be some good results he has in kids but his adult results are laughable and clealry frauded. I am not impressed.

 

[Ocelot]

They sure can, Sella especially moves up after maxillary forward movement and remodeling and so can the saddle angle even after puberty since these are cancellous bones that change relationship amongst one another suturually, structurally(remodeling), and via a synchondrosis (The sphenoid-occipital synchondrosis, this one fuses after puberty but can still have some flexion as any cranial osteopath will tell you). Hard to see it for yourself unless you are using fixed cephalometric landmarks. Call it delusion all you want, I call it advancement in craniometric and cephalometric science.

That's what I said, let's say you're right (you don't really have evidence for this theory either, about the movement of the aforementioned landmarks), you can measure the change in the jaws using other ways too.

If mewing produced a change in adults, it would be visible on a ceph. Whether it's FMA, occlusal cant relative to frankfurt plane, change in inclination of the incisors relative to themselves, or relative to the jaws, etc.

SOMETHING would change, that would be enough proof. Even if saddle angle changes like you claim, then we'd see it on ceph and that would be a decent proof.

The fact that you're saying this is a valid result

and a ceph is not, says a lot

 

[spark]

That's what I said, let's say you're right (you don't really have evidence for this theory either, about the movement of the aforementioned landmarks), you can measure the change in the jaws using other ways too.

If mewing produced a change in adults, it would be visible on a ceph. Whether it's FMA, occlusal cant relative to frankfurt plane, change in inclination of the incisors relative to themselves, or relative to the jaws, etc.

SOMETHING would change, that would be enough proof. Even if saddle angle changes like you claim, then we'd see it on ceph and that would be a decent proof.

The fact that you're saying this is a valid result
View attachment 1055227
and a ceph is not, says a lot

John Mew also tells everyone even heavily deformed people NOT to get surgery or even MSE. Yes he is even anti-MSE. Only his biobloc scam will do.

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

Coceancig on Mew's biobloc:
View attachment 1055212

Coceancig's results:

Dr Paul Coceancig's results

Paul Coceancig is a Sydney based surgeon and a pioneer of IMDO. He also does the standard BSSO, SARPE and LE FORT 1.

looksmax.org

I'll rather trust him than Mew's frauded photos.

I don't really get it

first he says it takes years aka it does work and then he says it doesn't

 

[Ocelot]

John Mew also tells everyone even heavily deformed people NOT to get surgery or even MSE. Yes he is even anti-MSE. Only his biobloc scam will do.

They started off focused on prevention of/fixing poor growth in children, which is good and works, but then moved on to making ludicrous claims that it'll create change in adults (contradicting their own words of saying tongue/body posture won't change much or anything after 12 years of age) because they saw the market for it.

 

[Babushkacatlady]

That's what I said, let's say you're right (you don't really have evidence for this theory either, about the movement of the aforementioned landmarks), you can measure the change in the jaws using other ways too.

If mewing produced a change in adults, it would be visible on a ceph. Whether it's FMA, occlusal cant relative to frankfurt plane, change in inclination of the incisors relative to themselves, or relative to the jaws, etc.

SOMETHING would change, that would be enough proof. Even if saddle angle changes like you claim, then we'd see it on ceph and that would be a decent proof.

Frankfurt plane changes too. The lower orbital edge drops or rises with maxillary movement. Incisal inclination change is a part of orthotropic treatment so you'd definitely see that. Ceph landmarks themselves are hard enough to identify and trace. Except for a few, most of these points are hard to identify on a very precise exactly replicable level. Even a cephalometric of the same person taken at the same time can have slightly different landmark positions if two different people did the same tracing or there was a slight transverse head tilt variation. Mewing produces small increments of change per year so some of these results would fall in statistical error range despite noticeable change.

John Mew also tells everyone even heavily deformed people NOT to get surgery or even MSE. Yes he is even anti-MSE. Only his biobloc scam will do.

There is evidence that semi rapid biobloc expansion will separate the membrane and fibers of the suture better than high force MSE due to the force displacement and cushioning properties in the suture sites. This is a clinical debate and it is far from concluded despite what MSE providers will try to tell you.

 

[spark]

I don't really get it

first he says it takes years aka it does work and then he says it doesn't

it apparently doesn't grow the mandible at all, only repositions it. That is why this guy still looks shit after the treatment and is clearly still a surgery case, note that the after is after like 10 years of Mike Mew bioscam therapy:

 

[Babushkacatlady]

it apparently doesn't grow the mandible at all, only repositions it. That is why this guy still looks shit after the treatment:

Mogs most people here tbh

 

[spark]

Mogs most people here tbh

not better than a 4/10 dont kid yourself

short face syndrome + overjet + 0 harmony

 

[Ocelot]

@datboijj you literally didn't even read anything I said and simultaneously rage reacted all my posts because I disagree.

JFL at your iq

 

[Ocelot]

Frankfurt plane changes too. The lower orbital edge drops or rises with maxillary movement. Incisal inclination change is a part of orthotropic treatment so you'd definitely see that. Ceph landmarks themselves are hard enough to identify and trace. Except for a few, most of these points are hard to identify on a very precise exactly replicable level. Even a cephalometric of the same person taken at the same time can have slightly different landmark positions if two different people did the same tracing or there was a slight transverse head tilt variation. Mewing produces small increments of change per year so some of these results would fall in statistical error range despite noticeable change.

That is still better than extremely unreliable photos.
That before/after could've been taken 10 minutes later by raising submental and changing lighting.

 

[Momstouch]

DO NOT BELIEVE HIM. EVEN THO HE'S A ORTHODONTIST LIKE HIS FATHER, INDIANS ON THE INCEL FORUMS KNOW BETTER THAN HIM. MEWING DOESNT WORK FOR +20 ADULTS. SOURCE? TRUST ME BRO

 

[randomvanish]

DO NOT BELIEVE HIM. EVEN THO HE'S A ORTHODONTIST LIKE HIS FATHER, INDIANS ON THE INCEL FORUMS KNOW BETTER THAN HIM. MEWING DOESNT WORK FOR +20 ADULTS. SOURCE? TRUST ME BRO

entire ontodonthic society against him. one faggot to a society.

 

[randomvanish]

What a lying shitbag. Remember this is his best adult result:

let dumb people cope. they don't deserve ascension. let them cope in peace with these unproven, non-scientific methods.

 

[spark]

entire ontodonthic society against him. one faggot to a society.

most orthos are scum anyways, I;d always trust a maxfac over an ortho

 

[spark]

There is evidence that semi rapid biobloc expansion will separate the membrane and fibers of the suture better than high force MSE due to the force displacement and cushioning properties in the suture sites. This is a clinical debate and it is far from concluded despite what MSE providers will try to tell you.

I'd love to see the evidence because I have never heard anyone claim that other than the joke John Mew himself.

 

[Babushkacatlady]

I'd love to see the evidence because I have never heard anyone claim that other than the joke John Mew himself.

Perform the research yourself. I know how sutural mechanics works and I think his statement can have some credibility. There aren't enough biobloc practitioners to do mass research on this.

 

[Babushkacatlady]

entire ontodonthic society against him. one faggot to a society.

They're against him for a different reason, it had to do with patient confidentiality and one parent being weird about treatment.
His line of thought is growing in the orthodontic community. Of course, you are free to not believe him, just don't clutter threads like this one.

 

[Deleted member 13264]

6-8mm change JFL

just believe everything he says theory

They started off with good intentions but most of their more recent claims after they got famous are bs

Bro, what do you expect from the masses when they're not artistically obsessed like people on PSL? They half-ass life my guy.
Bones change through life. It's a fact. If you press on a bone, or even a rock, long enough; it will change.​

 

[spark]

Perform the research yourself. I know how sutural mechanics works and I think his statement can have some credibility. There aren't enough biobloc practitioners to do mass research on this.

I have been doing so since 2018. After seeing the terrible results of Mew in every single adult patient and his idiotic lies about celebrities who got 10+ plastic surgeries that they just found his shit online and started "Mewing" and miraculously became gl (yes he claimed Kylie Jenner just "mewed") and then him telling adults who were clear surgery cases to not get a bimax it became quite clear he's full of shit.

In fact as I have shown even some of his child patients have terrible results like this "Nathan" I posted here earlier who after 10 years of treatment isn't better than a 4/10 and still is a clear class II overbite chincel:

 

[Deleted member 9670]

I wouldn't listen to that senile old man

 

[Babushkacatlady]

I have been doing so since 2018. After seeing the terrible results of Mew in every single adult patient and his idiotic lies about celebrities who got 10+ plastic surgeries that they just found his shit online and started "Mewing" and miraculously became gl (yes he claimed Kylie Jenner just "mewed") and then him telling adults who were clear surgery cases to not get a bimax it became quite clear he's full of shit.

In fact as I have shown even some of his child patients have terrible results like this "Nathan" I posted here earlier who after 10 years of treatment isn't better than a 4/10 and still is a clear class II overbite chincel:
View attachment 1061937

Lol yeah the celebrity part where they got obvious plastic surgery is pretty stupid I remember almost spilling my water on my keyboard from laughing at it when he said that. Him telling adults to not get bimax is also stupid, there are some people that definitely need it.

That case had a compliance problem halfway through. It may sound like an easy cop out but it can explain the outcome. Class 2s with with mandibular dentoalveolar retrusion are very difficult to correct nonsurgically because it is very hard to sagittally expand the alveolar bone of the mandible, because you can't move the lower incisors bodily forward and have them upright unlike the upper incisors. You'll just lose alveolar bone. Every class 2 division 2 case I have seen from them has not yielded optimal results past a certain age. At best you can manage it from getting worse. The Mews techniques seem to be better suited for vertical growers who should be made to grow in a horizontal direction, but less effective at getting horizontal growers with overclosed bites to a more normodivergent pattern.

 

[workiskey]

Thank you looksmax wizard

 

[FastBananaCEO]

He’s a liar. If mewing is so legit, why doesn’t Mew look like a supermodel?

 

[pizza]

If mewing is so legit, why doesn’t Mew look like a supermodel?

 

[Deleted member 13264]

He’s a liar. If mewing is so legit, why doesn’t Mew look like a supermodel?

Balding imo ​