Lefort 2 + CCW jaw rotation

[Clark]

How much would it cost in Turkey? Any tips??

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Why lefort 2?, not many perform it unless giant implant, i would reccomend you to get infra implants or fat grafts for the upper maxilla

 

[FrenchareMedCucks]

LF 2 moggs it is 35k with Celal ( including bimax and plates )

 

[Deleted member 16636]

Why lefort 2?, not many perform it unless giant implant, i would reccomend you to get infra implants or fat grafts for the upper maxilla

You are a fucking idiot everything you’ve just said is wrong.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

You are a fucking idiot everything you’ve just said is wrong.

Yeah sure, only surgeon who performs it is celal in turkey, almost no other surgeon will perform it on you unless top tier deformity.

 

[oily703]

Yeah sure, only surgeon who performs it is celal in turkey, almost no other surgeon will perform it on you unless top tier deformity.

Hes talking about what you sugested you utter fucking retard
Fat grafts jfl

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Hes talking about what you sugested you utter fucking retard
Fat grafts jfl

If no fat grafts you'll end up bad with only infras as seen in many cases of giant implants

 

[FrenchareMedCucks]

Yeah sure, only surgeon who performs it is celal in turkey, almost no other surgeon will perform it on you unless top tier deformity.

Pagnoni does it too but for 70-80k per a user here who asked him in 2022

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Pagnoni does it too but for 70-80k per a user here who asked him in 2022

Way to much tbh, 80k for the results that you get it in turkey for 20k+

 

[Snicket]

Pagnoni does it too but for 70-80k per a user here who asked him in 2022

Really? It's interesting we don't hear about any results - even with that price tag - considering how widely promoted Pagnoni is in this forum and that LF2/3 is presented as the El Dorado of surgeries. I've seen LF2 results online - it's definitely not the silver bullet everyone thinks it is.

 

[Snicket]

Why lefort 2?, not many perform it unless giant implant, i would reccomend you to get infra implants or fat grafts for the upper maxilla

The issue is that the nasal cavity is left behind. Implants and fat grafts are the realistic solution. Unfortunately, there is no optimal surgery for a recessed maxilla. Even LF2/3 don't make the midface more compact. There's concerns of sunken eyes (enophthalmos ), a larger nose, complications relating to facial nerves, moving the medial canthus. Rotation is also more limited. It's a very serious and invasive operation and yet people talk about here like ordering a happy meal.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

The issue is that the nasal cavity is left behind. Implants and fat grafts are the realistic solution. Unfortunately, there is no optimal surgery for a recessed maxilla. Even LF2/3 don't make the midface more compact. There's concerns of sunken eyes (enophthalmos ), a larger nose, complications relating to facial nerves, moving the medial canthus. Rotation is also more limited. It's a very serious and invasive operation and yet people talk about here like ordering a happy meal.

There is also an implant for the nasal bone, but i saw it only at Eppley so i am not sure if other surgeons do it.

 

[Snicket]

There is also an implant for the nasal bone, but i saw it only at Eppley so i am not sure if other surgeons do it.

You can also get a rhinoplasty which augments the nose bridge, I think. The danger with surgeries is how quickly it becomes a rabbit hole. More surgeries = more chance of a botch. That's not an anti-surgery argument. It's just that people have unrealistic expectations about what surgery can achieve. You can achieve some degree of improvement but it's no silver bullet in the vast majority of cases sadly - at least if your entire maxilla is recessed.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

You can also get a rhinoplasty which augments the nose bridge, I think. The danger with surgeries is how quickly it becomes a rabbit hole. More surgeries = more chance of a botch. That's not an anti-surgery argument. It's just that people have unrealistic expectations about what surgery can achieve. You can achieve some degree of improvement but it's no silver bullet in the vast majority of cases sadly - at least if your maxillary complex is recessed.

Indeed, as i said, i saw many giant implant results wich were underwhelming or uncanny, sadly not even implants feel right sometimes, big movements/implants = more uncanny looks.

 

[Snicket]

Indeed, as i said, i saw many giant implant results wich were underwhelming or uncanny, sadly not even implants feel right sometimes, big movements/implants = more uncanny looks.

Totally agreed. One guy who had his entire maxilla covered in implants looked like MJ. I'm not even anti-implants but they should augment the existing, albeit flawed, structure instead of almost trying to replace the entire facial skeleton! Tom Cruise had incredibly natural jaw implants in his early 20s and they looked great.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Totally agreed. One guy who had his entire maxilla covered in implants looked like MJ. I'm not even anti-implants but they should augment the existing, albeit flawed, structure instead of almost trying to replace the entire facial skeleton! Tom Cruise had incredibly natural jaw implants in his early 20s and they looked great.

You are absolutely right, this is a result i saw from giant, many might say that he looks better than his before, but looking ugly but natural will always be better than pretty and uncanny.

 

[Snicket]

View attachment 3433044

You are absolutely right, this is a result i saw from giant, many might say that he looks better than his before, but looking ugly but natural will always be better than pretty and uncanny.

Yep. Seen many cases like this. The facial contour looks totally unnatural. Accepting some measure of improvement and knowing when to walk away is key.

 

[Clark]

The issue is that the nasal cavity is left behind. Implants and fat grafts are the realistic solution. Unfortunately, there is no optimal surgery for a recessed maxilla. Even LF2/3 don't make the midface more compact. There's concerns of sunken eyes (enophthalmos ), a larger nose, complications relating to facial nerves, moving the medial canthus. Rotation is also more limited. It's a very serious and invasive operation and yet people talk about here like ordering a happy meal.

Are there any concerns about the CCW jaw rotation tho? Will it actually look good? I’m definitely doing CCW rotation, but I’m considering Lefort because someone told me it’s cheaper when done with CCW rotation.

 

[Clark]

View attachment 3433044

You are absolutely right, this is a result i saw from giant, many might say that he looks better than his before, but looking ugly but natural will always be better than pretty and uncanny.

I don’t even consider that uncanny tbh, dude looks good asf

 

[Acne Victim]

The issue is that the nasal cavity is left behind. Implants and fat grafts are the realistic solution. Unfortunately, there is no optimal surgery for a recessed maxilla. Even LF2/3 don't make the midface more compact. There's concerns of sunken eyes (enophthalmos ), a larger nose, complications relating to facial nerves, moving the medial canthus. Rotation is also more limited. It's a very serious and invasive operation and yet people talk about here like ordering a happy meal.

The people who talk about lf2/3 like that are usually teenagers who think it’s edgy to be getting extremely invasive procedures. LF2 specially has a shit roi imo

 

[Snicket]

Are there any concerns about the CCW jaw rotation tho? Will it actually look good? I’m definitely doing CCW rotation, but I’m considering Lefort because someone told me it’s cheaper when done with CCW rotation.

It's an interesting point. We know the nature of rotation changes when you mobilise more of the maxilla. In a lot of the medical literature I've read, LF2/3 is done first and then orthognathic surgery is done separately to get the optimal occlusal plane and bite. In some other cases, the surgeon mobilises different parts of the maxilla simultaneously. E.g. LF1 + naso-maxillary region + orbits and cheekbones. It's super specialised though. Only a tiny subset of surgeons do this apparently.

 

[Snicket]

The people who talk about lf2/3 like that are usually teenagers who think it’s edgy to be getting extremely invasive procedures. LF2 specially has a shit roi imo

I think so. And the roi is terrible for surgeons as well. The risks inherent in LF2/3 are much higher to the extent that the financial return doesn't seem worth it. The procedure no doubt takes a huge amount of planning too. If I were a surgeon, I'd just squeeze out more bimax operations instead. 3 LF1s probably brings in more money than 1 LF2. And imagine getting sued for a botched LF2/3. It could ruin your entire professional reputation. That's why even many capable surgeons who could perform this surgery outright refuse to imo.

 

[FrenchareMedCucks]

I think so. And the roi is terrible for surgeons as well. The risks inherent in LF2/3 are much higher to the extent that the financial return doesn't seem worth it. The procedure no doubt takes a huge amount of planning too. If I were a surgeon, I'd just squeeze out more bimax operations instead. 3 LF1s probably brings in more money than 1 LF2. And imagine getting sued for a botched LF2/3. It could ruin your entire professional reputation. That's why even many capable surgeons who could perform this surgery outright refuse too.

Celal want western Incel to ascend , guy is low inihb and don't care about risky surgery, we should praise him more here.

 

[Acne Victim]

View attachment 3433044

You are absolutely right, this is a result i saw from giant, many might say that he looks better than his before, but looking ugly but natural will always be better than pretty and uncanny.

Lol that’s @Linoob

 

[Acne Victim]

I think so. And the roi is terrible for surgeons as well. The risks inherent in LF2/3 are much higher to the extent that the financial return doesn't seem worth it. The procedure no doubt takes a huge amount of planning too. If I were a surgeon, I'd just squeeze out more bimax operations instead. 3 LF1s probably brings in more money than 1 LF2. And imagine getting sued for a botched LF2/3. It could ruin your entire professional reputation. That's why even many capable surgeons who could perform this surgery outright refuse too.

you’re absolutely right. the ROI just isn’t there for surgeons too. I can’t say too much here but these procedures, just like any other surgery, almost never go perfectly. But one thing is not going perfectly with a set of implants, and another is with a lefort 3 CCW lol

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Lol that’s @Linoob

No offence to him, but he could have gone to more natural looks and still get better looking.

 

[Snicket]

Celal want western Incel to ascend , guy is low inihb and don't care about risky surgery, we should praise him more here.

Celal wants your money. A good surgeon doesn't ignore risks; he tries to address and mitigate them.
LF2/3 isn't a silver bullet. It comes with a bunch of aesthetic trade-offs that probably need other surgeries to address them based on what I've seen.

 

[Acne Victim]

No offence to him, but he could have gone to more natural looks and still get better looking.

true but if his goals are to get laid, then idk if its such a bad decision. i can speak from experience that its kinda irrelevant to look slightly uncanny like him, specially as irl it will be more natural

 

[chrishell]

With projection rhinoplasties and implants, LF2 is obsolete beyond syndromic cases

 

[chrishell]

View attachment 3433044

You are absolutely right, this is a result i saw from giant, many might say that he looks better than his before, but looking ugly but natural will always be better than pretty and uncanny.

Looks too much
But he asked for it himself and the designer did a good job with his request
It still leaves the question does everyone know what they're asking for when they ask for it
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say yes

 

[FrenchareMedCucks]

Was it custom wraparound or jaw angle implants?

Looks good though

 

[moze]

The issue is that the nasal cavity is left behind. Implants and fat grafts are the realistic solution. Unfortunately, there is no optimal surgery for a recessed maxilla. Even LF2/3 don't make the midface more compact. There's concerns of sunken eyes (enophthalmos ), a larger nose, complications relating to facial nerves, moving the medial canthus. Rotation is also more limited. It's a very serious and invasive operation and yet people talk about here like ordering a happy meal.

Agree on everything except making eye and midface more compact.it is possible to make midface more compact with lf3 and i ve seen cases where they fixed sunken eyes

 

[moze]

The issue is that the nasal cavity is left behind. Implants and fat grafts are the realistic solution. Unfortunately, there is no optimal surgery for a recessed maxilla. Even LF2/3 don't make the midface more compact. There's concerns of sunken eyes (enophthalmos ), a larger nose, complications relating to facial nerves, moving the medial canthus. Rotation is also more limited. It's a very serious and invasive operation and yet people talk about here like ordering a happy meal.

Agree on everything except making eye and midface more compact.it is possible to make midface more compact with lf3 and i ve seen cases where they fixed sunken eyes

 

[moze]

I know many people will disagree but in my opinion to have a natural and aesthetically pleasing change on the uppermaxilla there should be a domino effect ie applying continuous pressure on the maxilla by adult facepuller can change the bones which conmect to the maxilla.when the maxilla is expanded to a certain degree the suture of bones including the sphenoid bone will loosen which allows for a good protraction of the maxilla.in theory it can work if we have a good device for adults.

 

[Snicket]

I know many people will disagree but in my opinion to have a natural and aesthetically pleasing change on the uppermaxilla there should be a domino effect ie applying continuous pressure on the maxilla by adult facepuller can change the bones which conmect to the maxilla.when the maxilla is expanded to a certain degree the suture of bones including the sphenoid bone will loosen which allows for a good protraction of the maxilla.in theory it can work if we have a good device for adults.

This is already done with MSE - which is meant to split the sutures of the maxilla - and then used in combination with the facemask to advance the maxilla in adults.

I haven't seen evidence that any meaningful advancement can be achieved in adults or even teenagers.

The issue is that the maxilla is almost completely developed by the age of 11.

Facemasks are optimal around age 5 or 6 when the maxilla is still growing and long before the sutures start closing. One study claimed that past the age of 10, no protraction of the maxilla was even achieved in teenagers using facemasks vs their control group.

Adults would have to wear facemasks 12 hours day for a year to get maybe a measly milimetre. Even if you were right, the best candidates for this treatment would be class 3s with prognathic mandibles. Anyone else would almost definitely get an overbite.

 

[Linoob]

View attachment 3433044

You are absolutely right, this is a result i saw from giant, many might say that he looks better than his before, but looking ugly but natural will always be better than pretty and uncanny.

I disagree bro, I get way more IOI's now and my dating apps are never dry. This was also only a few months post op and my result is more natural but still very robust

All the images of me post implants that were shared here are when I was still swollen + under weight

I also had homo levels of lip filler which has now somewhat dissolved

I am one of Giants BOTB

 

[Lefor3Laser]

I disagree bro, I get way more IOI's now and my dating apps are never dry. This was also only a few months post op and my result is more natural but still very robust

All the images of me post implants that were shared here are when I was still swollen + under weight

I also had homo levels of lip filler which has now somewhat dissolved

I am one of Giants BOTB

Alright this one looks good ngl.

 

[moze]

Alright this one looks good ngl.

Nah his zygos and jaw is very prominent compared to his rest of the skull which makes it looks uncanny

 

[moze]

Alright this one looks good ngl.

Nah his zygos and jaw is very prominent compared to his rest of the skull which makes it looks uncanny

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Nah his zygos and jaw is very prominent compared to his rest of the skull which makes it looks uncanny

Indeed, but looks less uncanny than the other pics though, i would say he truly improved with a little touch of uncannyness.

 

[moze]

Mse doesnt work coz most of the changes due to mse is in the alveolar region.expansion with mse is 75%alveolar expansion and 25% skeletal thats one of the reason why protraction doesnt work coz there is no good palatal expander for adults.there is fme rn but its very expensive they are also releasinng a new facemask which have two forces acting upwards and forwards like the facemask which mews use as i said after a certain amount of expansion the suture loosen in many bones which allow the movment of maxilla.not sure if it will work but lets hope that it does

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Mse doesnt work coz most of the changes due to mse is in the alveolar region.expansion with mse is 75%alveolar expansion and 25% skeletal thats one of the reason why protraction doesnt work coz there is no good palatal expander for adults.there is fme rn but its very expensive they are also releasinng a new facemask which have two forces acting upwards and forwards like the facemask which mews use as i said after a certain amount of expansion the suture loosen in many bones which allow the movment of maxilla.not sure if it will work but lets hope that it does

You can widen your upper palate with bimax but even by then your lower palate will be left behind and you'll have narrow low palate, not worth it imo.

 

[moze]

Yea i agree.this is the problem with giant implants the implants doesnt suit the rest of the skull.there is also a step off in the infra orbital area i thinks its because the implant is not saddled

 

[moze]

We can do msdo to widen the lower.imo if the protraction can effect the maxilla and can move it forward and upward then its worth it even if it gives overbite.you can avoid upperjaw surgery and just do a lower law surgery.if it works its better than bimax coz bimax doesnt move entire maxilla forward

 

[moze]

Even if it doesnt look natural he looks good

 

[Linoob]

Nah his zygos and jaw is very prominent compared to his rest of the skull which makes it looks uncanny

hahahah

 

[Linoob]

true but if his goals are to get laid, then idk if its such a bad decision. i can speak from experience that its kinda irrelevant to look slightly uncanny like him, specially as irl it will be more natural

This ^

 

[Snicket]

Mse doesnt work coz most of the changes due to mse is in the alveolar region.expansion with mse is 75%alveolar expansion and 25% skeletal thats one of the reason why protraction doesnt work coz there is no good palatal expander for adults.there is fme rn but its very expensive they are also releasinng a new facemask which have two forces acting upwards and forwards like the facemask which mews use as i said after a certain amount of expansion the suture loosen in many bones which allow the movment of maxilla.not sure if it will work but lets hope that it does

I'll believe it when I see it. Achieving alveolar advancement is difficult enough in adults with MSE + FM. Advancing the upper maxilla will be far more difficult and fraught with complications.

Can you imagine splitting the sutures of your upper maxilla? Especially around your orbits and infraorbital region. That could be incredibly dangerous. I don't think this would necessarily be the breakthrough you think it is! Generally, the more important the facial feature is, the more invasive the required treatment is.

Higher level LeForts are still the workhorse of midfacial advancment unfortunately and I can't see that changing for the forseeable future.

 

[Acne Victim]

This ^

can you post your design here btw? kinda hard for people to make judgements without seeing it imo

 

[Snicket]

Nah his zygos and jaw is very prominent compared to his rest of the skull which makes it looks uncanny

You can see that the nose has been left behind. If he more nasion projection. It would look less uncanny imo.

That being said, since we know the guy had implants, we are actively looking for discrepancies. It probably looks less uncanny to casuals in fairness.

If the guy is seeing a demonstrable increase in his quality of life then that's ultimately what matters.