Lifeless planets disprove the abrahamic god

[Deleted member 23359]

How exactly did I run from the "complexity argument" you colossal lunatic? Actually there is no disproving to be done when it comes to something that was never proven in the first place, I'm doing as much mental masturbartion and engaging in as much empty hypothesizing as you are. A god that doesn't want me to eat meat in a specific time of the year isn't the only thing that can play the role of the opposite of "luck" either, I have already conceded that we're a product of a higher power and you did nothing to show that higher power is the god I proposed to begin with. Why do you keep saying retarded and non sequitir shit and how do you have the nerve to accuse me of running away? Lmao.

Complexity proves itself homie, any sane person knows something so comlex and intelligent doesn't come by luck

What tf is the higher power beside god something thats intelligent that can create perfect and complex thing is obviously fucking god a goodd

Religion is Just the message of god and that's a whole other topic

 

[TUSSELEIF]

If some kind of creator exists, then either that creator is:
1. Evil and unbothered by the arguably evil nature of what it created.
2. Real but doesn’t care about what it created so does not participate in what it created.
3. It is Good or indifferent but the universe it created is so vast they can’t hold direct sway over it. (This could be where religions come in where God and/or Gods "send messages" and prophets)
3. It is good or indifferent, but another evil god (Satan) or more gods exists and has equal power to good or indifferent God/Gods. The complexity of human thinking proves good and evil exists as true concepts, and a potential God would be much more complex than humans, so it would apply to a creator as well, since that creator indirectly created humans and so human thinking and complexity.

Ironically, the vastness of the universe and the existence of billions of galaxies, and the fact the universe has laws, makes me personally believe in a creator. But I think humans thinking they are special and "God’s chosen" is cope and human exceptionalism/narcissism. Maybe the various prophets that have existed are "God’s chosen" and was sent by a God, but not all of humanity in itself. There could be prophets on other planets as well, who knows. Or, we are "God’s chosen" but a lot of us are sinners. I believe in a creator, but not a set of set rules, but rather many different could-be possibilities.

 

[LampPostPrime]

Complexity proves itself homie, any sane person knows something so comlex and intelligent doesn't come by luck

What tf is the higher power beside god something thats intelligent that can create perfect and complex thing is obviously fucking god a goodd

Religion is Just the message of god and that's a whole other topic

"any sane person knows"
"proves itself"

Weasel word - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

complexity automatically meaning an intelligent designer is not self evidently true. a lot of complex things happen randomly. thats why the monkeys typing infinitely creating shakespeare thought experiment came about. things are always happening and eventually something that appears "designed" will come about. doesn't mean it was. add that to the fact that people have a tendency to project order onto things and look for patterns

 

[vanillaicecream]

Complexity proves itself homie, any sane person knows something so comlex and intelligent doesn't come by luck

What tf is the higher power beside god something thats intelligent that can create perfect and complex thing is obviously fucking god a goodd

Religion is Just the message of god and that's a whole other topic

No, complexity doesn't prove a separate entity that is complex in and of itself and puts you back at square one. Complexity of a system > disembodied mind? This is a stupid non sequitir that no third grader should fall for. How about you apply the same "complexity" rationale to god himself and explain how can something more complex than the universe exist? You don't accept the universe came about by chance, all the while gladly accepting something more complex than it, did? Also notice how you're still engaging with me with long essays after using how late it is where you are as an excuse to not give me anything when I backed you into a corner. Lmao. Just keep embarassing yourself I guess.

 

[LampPostPrime]

You don't accept the universe came about by chance, all the while gladly accepting something more complex than it, did?

couldn't have put it better myself. i hate how school doesn't teach logic when its the fundamental building block for literally all other academic pursuits.

i don't have this hate you seem to have for abrahamic religion but the stubborn refusal many abrahamics have to see logic is definitely annoying. its justever since wokeness i've softened my position and kinda think abrahamic religion is needed to keep human primitive instincts in check

 

[vanillaicecream]

couldn't have put it better myself. i hate how school doesn't teach logic when its the fundamental building block for literally all other academic pursuits.

i don't have this hate you seem to have for abrahamic religion but the stubborn refusal many abrahamics have to see logic is definitely annoying. its justever since wokeness i've softened my position and kinda think abrahamic religion is needed to keep human primitive instincts in check

I don't have a specific hate for this belief system in and of itself, I engage in the same exact manner when dealing with people spewing out fallacious reasoning and displaying a deluded sense of intellectual superiority, it just so happens that proponents of abrahamic religions are second to none when it comes to this. Lmao.

 

[Deleted member 23359]

No, complexity doesn't prove a separate entity that is complex in and of itself and puts you back at square one. Complexity of a system > disembodied mind? This is a stupid non sequitir that no third grader should fall for. How about you apply the same "complexity" rationale to god himself and explain how can something more complex than the universe exist? You don't accept the universe came about by chance, all the while gladly accepting something more complex than it, did? Also notice how you're still engaging with me with long essays after using how late it is where you are as an excuse to not give me anything when I backed you into a corner. Lmao. Just keep embarassing yourself I guess.

What are you even talking about buddy

Two complex things can exsit at once, universe laws and your peanut brain are both something was created carefui, Just be cause something more complex than something doesn't make the other simple

Maybe i don't understand your point but simply there's no chance we came by luck thats literally it

 

[Saggitarian]

How do you know these planets are "lifeless" if you haven't been to them?

 

[LampPostPrime]

I don't have a specific hate for this belief system in and of itself, I engage in the same exact manner when dealing with people spewing out fallacious reasoning and displaying a deluded sense of intellectual superiority, it just so happens that proponents of abrahamic religions are second to none when it comes to this. Lmao.

well i mean you're literally forcing them to face the idea of a cold uncaring purposeless universe, and nothingness after death so you can't expect them to take that lightly

 

[Deleted member 23359]

couldn't have put it better myself. i hate how school doesn't teach logic when its the fundamental building block for literally all other academic pursuits.

i don't have this hate you seem to have for abrahamic religion but the stubborn refusal many abrahamics have to see logic is definitely annoying. its justever since wokeness i've softened my position and kinda think abrahamic religion is needed to keep human primitive instincts in check

Yeah because logic is believing a random explosion created the " lifeless planets"

If anything believing in a higher intelligent power seems more logical

 

[LampPostPrime]

What are you even talking about buddy

Two complex things can't exsit at once, universe laws and your peanut brain are both something was created carefui, Just be cause something more complex than something doesn't make the other simple

Maybe i don't understand your point but simply there's no chance we came by luck thats literally it

two complex things can't exist at once? what do you mean?

 

[vanillaicecream]

What are you even talking about buddy

Two complex things can't exsit at once, universe laws and your peanut brain are both something was created carefui, Just be cause something more complex than something doesn't make the other simple

Maybe i don't understand your point but simply there's no chance we came by luck thats literally it

Yeah you wouldn't understand it if it slapped you in the face, so just keep incessantly cleaving to the notion of "complexity" as the go-to argument for a god that has a grand plan for you and watches you 24/7. Fucking hilarious.

 

[Deleted member 23359]

two complex things can't exist at once? what do you mean?

I meant can
Its typo

 

[Deleted member 23359]

Yeah you wouldn't understand it if it slapped you in the face, so just keep incessantly cleaving to the notion of "complexity" as the go-to argument for a god that has a grand plan for you and watches you 24/7. Fucking hilarious.

Buddy you literally agreed there's a higher power in previous replies and Guess what we call it? A GOD

 

[LampPostPrime]

Yeah because logic is believing a random explosion created the " lifeless planets"

If anything believing in a higher intelligent power seems more logical

the explosion just randomly happened to be , same as god just randomly happened to be, its the same problem with your position. except yours presupposes way more so by definition is less logical.

and i'm not sure how something being "random" is a criticism. things just randomly happen, thats life, do you deny that?

 

[Deleted member 23359]

the explosion just randomly happened to be , same as god just randomly happened to be, its the same problem with your position. except yours presupposes way more so by definition is less logical.

and i'm not sure how something being "random" is a criticism. things just randomly happen, thats life, do you deny that?

Because universal laws and how life function point in higher intelligent power

A random explosion won't pump out life randomly and lead us where we at today

God is the truth

 

[vanillaicecream]

I meant can
Its typo

The line of reasoning I put forth has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not two complex systems can simultaneously exist, you fucking buffoon. How fucking hard is it to understand that if your reasoning to appeal to a fucking disembodied, eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, creator of a system is the complexity of said system it will in turn send you all the way back to the origin of the mystery because this god carries its fair share of complexity? How does a fucking god that poofs a universe into existence exist? Do you really not undertand how fucking retarded all of your argumentation is? Holy indoctrination.

 

[LampPostPrime]

Because universal laws and how life function point in higher intelligent power

A random explosion won't pump out life randomly and lead us where we at today

God is the truth

complexity =/= intelligent designer. its like clouds rolling by and seeing shapes in them, that doesnt mean something is shaping them its just chance and the human mind finding patterns in everything

and your 2nd assertion isn't backed up by anything. random things happen and create "order" (which like i said a lot of that "order" is human bias for patterns). plus theres so many imperfect unintuitive things that seem like dumb design. like breathing and eating being the same hole. or the appendix. or the tailbone. or having where you shit and fuck in the same place (as neil tyson said). or even just the existence of ugly poeple like we complain about here

 

[LampPostPrime]

another good example of why intuition wont necessarily mean something is true, is even found in something as basic as the laws of motion

according to the laws of motion if you shoot something in space or any other vacuum it will go on forever. thats not intuitive is it? most people would think it wud just stop because of our lifelong experience of air resistance on earth. "intuition"/common sense can only go so far.

 

[vanillaicecream]

Buddy you literally agreed there's a higher power in previous replies and Guess what we call it? A GOD

Holy shit, not only can you not distinguish between the sheer and sole notion of a higher power and one that takes a step further and has a plethora of very specific characteristics ascribed to it, you also don't understand the concept of granting something for the sake of argument. Holy shit, do you really think you're winning at this? Do you not understand that it's not possible for someone that is not arguing from logic and reason to completely verbally annihilate you the way I've been doing?

 

[LampPostPrime]

Holy shit, not only can you not distinguish between the sheer and sole notion of a higher power and one that takes a step further and has a plethora of very specific characteristics ascribed to it, you also don't understand the concept of granting something for the sake of argument. Holy shit, do you really think you're winning at this? Do you not understand that it's not possible for someone that is not arguing from logic and reason to completely verbally annihilate you the way I've been doing?

yea i thought you were referring to either a deist higher power or just doing it for sake or argument

 

[Mighty17like]

If some kind of creator exists, then either that creator is:
1. Evil and unbothered by the arguably evil nature of what it created.
2. Real but doesn’t care about what it created so does not participate in what it created.
3. It is Good or indifferent but the universe it created is so vast they can’t hold direct sway over it. (This could be where religions come in where God and/or Gods "send messages" and prophets)
3. It is good or indifferent, but another evil god (Satan) or more gods exists and has equal power to good or indifferent God/Gods. The complexity of human thinking proves good and evil exists as true concepts, and a potential God would be much more complex than humans, so it would apply to a creator as well, since that creator indirectly created humans and so human thinking and complexity.

Ironically, the vastness of the universe and the existence of billions of galaxies, and the fact the universe has laws, makes me personally believe in a creator. But I think humans thinking they are special and "God’s chosen" is cope and human exceptionalism/narcissism. Maybe the various prophets that have existed are "God’s chosen" and was sent by a God, but not all of humanity in itself. There could be prophets on other planets as well, who knows. Or, we are "God’s chosen" but a lot of us are sinners. I believe in a creator, but not a set of set rules, but rather many different could-be possibilities.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
God is declaring His control over all aspects of creation and events, including both positive and challenging events. create evil" in this context is often interpreted to refer to calamity or adversity rather than moral evil sometimes used as a form of punishment.

 

[loksr]

Thinking that some anthropomorphic being that's obsessed with life and having a special relationship with intelligent apes would bother to put all that slew of lifeless planets there is retarded

I’m not even a little bit religious but this is the most retarded argument I’ve ever seen
It’s like saying engineers can’t exist because the middle of australia is empty

There can be other types of shit, it’s not contradictory.
If anything, you have it completely backwards, lifeless planets can be viewed as evidence FOR abrahamic religions, because abrahamic religions describe us as special and one of a kind, and so far the science confirms that. (but I DO believe in the existence of life on other planets though)

 

[LampPostPrime]

I’m not even a little bit religious but this is the most retarded argument I’ve ever seen
It’s like saying engineers can’t exist because the middle of australia is empty

There can be other types of shit, it’s not contradictory.
If anything, you have it completely backwards, lifeless planets can be viewed as evidence FOR abrahamic religions, because abrahamic religions describe us as special and one of a kind, and so far the science confirms that. (but I DO believe in the existence of life on other planets though)

its not a retarded argument, its the reason why the crazy fundamentalist christians think theres a flat earth and space doesnt exist. he's just referring to all these things that exist that seem dumb or pointless, to go against the idea that everything is "intelligently" designed

 

[vanillaicecream]

I’m not even a little bit religious but this is the most retarded argument I’ve ever seen
It’s like saying engineers can’t exist because the middle of australia is empty

There can be other types of shit, it’s not contradictory.
If anything, you have it completely backwards, lifeless planets can be viewed as evidence FOR abrahamic religions, because abrahamic religions describe us as special and one of a kind, and so far the science confirms that. (but I DO believe in the existence of life on other planets though)

are engineers the ultimate creators of all existence? They only create things they are assigned to for functional reasons, don't they? So why would they have to account for things they never created and have their existence contradicted by any observations of the world? God on the other hand is the purported architect of all there is and is said to want to have a relationship with us above all else, so why would he bother to create planets that can't harbor intelligent life? That is a direct contradiction to his very nature and functioning.

 

[loksr]

its not a retarded argument, its the reason why the crazy fundamentalist christians think theres a flat earth and space doesnt exist. he's just referring to all these things that exist that seem dumb or pointless, to go against the idea that everything is "intelligently" designed

again, not religious at all, but that’s like a monkey telling you that smartphones are dumb and pointless because he doesn’t understand them.

A great many of an intelligent creator’s decisions would be unfathomable by even the most intelligent human being. It’s literally described as having knowledge of EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE ENTIRETY OF EVERYTHING, ALWAYS
Remove god from the equation, imagine it’s any being, do you honestly think that you wouldn’t be confused sometimes by the actions of a being that has that amount of knowledge? It would know everything that happens and is going to happen past present or future, it knows every step of every butterfly effect process, that alone would be enough for it to make confusing decisions

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
God is declaring His control over all aspects of creation and events, including both positive and challenging events. create evil" in this context is often interpreted to refer to calamity or adversity rather than moral evil sometimes used as a form of punishment.

So wait your account has existed for over half a year and this is the first post you make?

 

[LampPostPrime]

again, not religious at all, but that’s like a monkey telling you that smartphones are dumb and pointless because he doesn’t understand them.

A great many of an intelligent creator’s decisions would be unfathomable by even the most intelligent human being. It’s literally described as having knowledge of EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE ENTIRETY OF EVERYTHING, ALWAYS
Remove god from the equation, imagine it’s any being, do you honestly think that you wouldn’t be confused sometimes by the actions of a being that has that amount of knowledge? It would know everything that happens and is going to happen past present or future, it knows every step of every butterfly effect process, that alone would be enough for it to make confusing decisions

yea i see what you're saying. thats why i'm personally a deist and believe in that kind of lovecraftian unintelligible/beyond human understanding god. but i'm honest enough to admit its an irrational belief and taken on faith unlike christians lol

 

[HarrierDuBois]

It’s like saying engineers can’t exist because the middle of australia is empty

This is brilliant.

 

[loksr]

are engineers the ultimate creators of all existence? They only create things they are assigned to for functional reasons, don't they? So why would they have to account for things they never created and have their existence contradicted by any observations of the world? God on the other hand is the purported architect of all there is and is said to want to have a relationship with us above all else, so why would he bother to create planets that can't harbor intelligent life? That is a direct contradiction to his very nature and functioning.

A monkey walks up to you and tells you smartphones are dumb and pointless, from his perspective they are.
Thoughts?

The bible is written for HUMANS to be centered around GOD, what you’re trying to say is that GOD is centered around HUMANS, this does not have to be the case. (Again i know that the bible is bullshit, we all know the stories of the books found under the floorboards, the political agendas, etc etc)

Imagine you write a book for your friend David, are you going to include information about your friend Joe (Joe is representing the rest of the universe, with or without other intelligent life) in there as well? (Joe and David don’t know each other) if you DON’T include information about Joe, does that make Joe’s gloves dumb and pointless?

 

[Deleted member 18582]

I read all of evolution theory and God theory and Its kind of a close call tbh. Just not convinced either way! Might go with god theory

 

[ShowerMaxxing]

Nothing will ever make me seriously believe we came from monkeys.
"Hey grandpa!"

 

[Deleted member 18582]

I'm Christian but only insofar as it gives me a athletic jock halo

 

[HarrierDuBois]

View attachment 2374204

 

[HarrierDuBois]

I'm Christian but only insofar as it gives me a athletic jock halo

I am NOT seeing you on judgement day.

 

[Enfant terrible]

Iam converting to islam soon

TITLE TITLE IAM GONA CONVERT TO ISLAM I cannot deny the truth of the koran anymore. Its gonna happen soon.

looksmax.org

 

[vanillaicecream]

A monkey walks up to you and tells you smartphones are dumb and pointless, from his perspective they are.
Thoughts?

The bible is written for HUMANS to be centered around GOD, what you’re trying to say is that GOD is centered around HUMANS, this does not have to be the case. (Again i know that the bible is bullshit, we all know the stories of the books found under the floorboards, the political agendas, etc etc)

Imagine you write a book for your friend David, are you going to include information about your friend Joe (Joe is representing the rest of the universe, with or without other intelligent life) in there as well? (Joe and David don’t know each other) if you DON’T include information about Joe, does that make Joe’s gloves dumb and pointless?

Response to the monkey analogy: you need to understand that it's not about thinking something is stupid and nonsensical from your perspective but rather having an understanding of the nature of the creator and whether it should make sense for them to create something. Do monkeys understand why we would create smartphones? No they dont because they have no knowledge whatsoever of our intentions and what drives us, however when it comes to abrahamic god there is an extensive list of characteristics and motivations regarding his nature that have already been revealed if the bible is the core foundation of god and his nature. So with that in mind we can infer that such a god would in all likelihood not create lifeless planets, it makes absolutely zero sense and it's based on knowledge rather than lack of it which is the scenario we have when it comes to monkeys trying to understand humans. Once they acquire intelligence and understand us then they would find no problems and contradictions with us creating smartphones.

 

[Deleted member 33424]

neptune mogs

 

[loksr]

Response to the monkey analogy: you need to understand that it's not about thinking something is stupid and nonsensical from your perspective but rather having an understanding of the nature of the creator and whether it should make sense for them to create something. Do monkeys understand why we would create smartphones? No they dont because they have no knowledge whatsoever of our intentions and what drives us, however when it comes to abrahamic god there is an extensive list of characteristics and motivations regarding his nature that have already been revealed if the bible is the core foundation of god and his nature. So with that in mind we can infer that such a god would in all likelihood not create lifeless planets, it makes absolutely zero sense and it's based on knowledge rather than lack of it which is the scenario we have when it comes to monkeys trying to understand humans. Once they acquire intelligence and understand us then they would find no problems and contradictions with us creating smartphones.

List the characteristics and motivations laid out biblically.

 

[ShowerMaxxing]

Nothing will ever make me seriously believe we came from monkeys.
"Hey grandpa!"

Even grandpa believes in god jfl

 

[vanillaicecream]

I'm Christian but only insofar as it gives me a athletic jock halo

Uh? It gives you door-by-door suit wearing sophistry peddler halo

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Even grandpa believes in god jfl
View attachment 2374219

Only way to outrun God is to run into the claws of the devil, at the end of the day you must believe in something.

 

[DR. NICKGA]

The abrahamic god is nothin more than Saturn (Satan) in disguise.

All mainstream religions worship the same entity.

you can better hide this information? Look very dumb to say those kind, you know what they can do

 

[vanillaicecream]

List the characteristics and motivations laid out biblically.

I'm not familiar with that many specific and exact bible verses but according to chrsitians god created the universe and then billions of years down the line he decided to create us in his image to play games with us by writing a whole script of things he knew would happen as the omniscient being he is so he could then get mad and send himself to earth and sacrifice himself to himself to forgive us of the things he knew from the beginning we would do. Wtf? That's about as much of the so called Christian faith I can verbally replicate.

 

[Sprinkles]

you can better hide this information? Look very dumb to say those kind, you know what they can do

what you say mean?

 

[Mighty17like]

So wait your account has existed for over half a year and this is the first post you make?

Yes

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Yes

I can respect that.

 

[loksr]

I'm not familiar with that many specific and exact bible verses but according to chrsitians god created the universe and then billions of years down the line he decided to create us in his image to play games with us by writing a whole script of things he knew would happen as the omniscient being he is so he could then get mad and send himself to earth and sacrifice himself to himself to forgive us of the things he knew from the beginning we would do. Wtf? That's about as much of the so called Christian faith I can verbally replicate.

the difference between the point being god being human centered and the point being humans being god centered might not seem like much, but it’s an absolutely MASSIVE difference. The latter implies that god can have other shit going on that is NOT related to human beings, and there’s biblical evidence of this considering it talks about a massive war in heaven between angels and shit, obviously none of that is related to humans at all but it’s described as happening, humans get put into the mix eventually but it very much starts out unrelated. If that kind of thing happens it can easily be argued that other events like that have happened that humans AREN’T made aware of because it doesn’t pertain to humans. (We have precedent of God keeping knowledge from humans with the fruit that adam & eve ate)

As for any behavioral inconsistencies, the bible is HUGE on describing life as a test for something (god is obviously collecting a specific type of person for some goal, in the real world we know that it’s actually societies aiming to keep its citizens in line and behaving a certain way, but biblically we are not made fully aware of what his motivation is for collecting these people into heaven) it’s HUGE on free will, and it’s basically a giant guidebook for how to act. So with all of this in mind, we can chalk up these inconsistencies as being a combination of, the goal is for humans to make the right choice, all of life is an exam, and these biblical stories are the learning material teaching you how to make said right choice.

Now, as for god knowing everything before it happens, in the context of everything being a test it’s pretty reasonable to just say that god, being an ALL powerful being, WOULD be capable of limiting himself in this way and/or creating free will to be something that can exist outside of his influence/knowledge. and then it goes into the paradox conversation but luckily we’re talking about magic here rather than science so thank god there’s some leeway!

People shit on the “god works in mysterious ways” cop out answer but it’s probably the most reasonable thing a christian has ever said, it can be translated to “a being with knowledge of all things at the same time would be ridiculously impossible for any human being to comprehend.” I don’t think people fully grasp how UNFATHOMABLE the thought process of a being like that would be, people already get confused by the shit einstein says, there would be NO chance with god. If anything I think if the bible DID make PERFECT sense that would be evidence AGAINST god. (The real reason it doesn’t make sense is it was written by a fuckload of different people with different goals in different time periods, and then spliced together, sometimes two of the same story were spliced in together as one longer story, etc etc. but to be honest it makes more sense than people give it credit for when you look at the big picture)

 

[Afrikancel]

Complexity proves itself homie, any sane person knows something so comlex and intelligent doesn't come by luck

What tf is the higher power beside god something thats intelligent that can create perfect and complex thing is obviously fucking god a goodd

Religion is Just the message of god and that's a whole other topic

Legit as sin

Anyone with a brain and recognises that humans are the top species out of 2 billion species and have the capacity to go to other worlds and build mini suns but deny the exist of a a creator god are just retarded

“Its all by chance bro” is retarded

God exists and 98% of all humans in history intuitively believe that

 

[ShowerMaxxing]

Only way to outrun God is to run into the claws of the devil, at the end of the day you must believe in something.

Buddies getting deep ash