Marpe/jaw surgery/Ramieri

[Denkaren]

I just joined this forum and want to share something with you.

There seem to be too many in here that hasn’t got a single fucking clue about ascending. What I want to say is the palatal rugae and the maxillary sutures are litteraly the key to beauty. That in combination of a mobile tongue(there can’t be any restriction).
A restricted tongue is the reason why some of you incels have what you called negative canthal tilt.

The maxilla are linked to the Sphenoidbone which are linked to the orbits.

Once you put pressure on the incisive canal your orbits are indirectly affected and you get what’s called a positive cantal tilt.

All this cantal tilt looksmaxxing advice are straight cope, it won’t do a shit. The tongue on the other hand have the ability to change your appearance in an instance if it’s mobile enough.

I also want to point out that the reason as to why people often imo look less harmonious after jaw surgery is because the maxilla wasn’t moved enough forward in relationship to the tongue.

If you do a bimax and advance both of the jaws the same amount your tongue won’t be able to be further forward in the palate.

I also want to point out the importance of dental arch, abnormal expanding from mechanical force(marpe,EASE,FME) will not only make you look like a ogre but also in the long run lead to worse functional(since the sutures has such a big impact on our nervoussystem) fracturing them with mechanical force will lead to scar tissues filled in between.

If you have any question, I can show you example of everything and break it down.

Many that are in here are in here to look better, I don’t know where this uncanny hype to have as wide jaw as possible comes from?

You’ve been isolated for too long and totally lost sense of reality.

I had jaw surgery with Ramieri that was a botch and lead me to a rabbit hole.

I’ve been doing research everyday and would say I have better knowledge than a lot of the jaw surgeons on certain areas. It is an insult to me and the 10+ I’ve come in contact with that was totally botched by Ramieri. Seeing incels call him “the goat” isolated in their mom’s basement is a joke. I seriously start to belive that Ramieri in his staff has many accounts in here to market him. He has no knowledge of the tongue and its importance what so ever.

All the ones that were botched has a similar botch pattern(they all ended up with an open bite). A open bite is created when the tongue hasn’t any place in the mouth to rest(the importance of dental arch). The reason as to why we all don’t go around with open bites is because the tongue formed the dental arch during our youth, moving the mandible laterall or in just any direction to “fix” assymetry will lead to the tongue now finding the arch. When it not finds the dental arch it moves forward pushing at the incisors, not only that it automatically moves backward making your breathing worse.

When your tongue are inside of your dental arch your tongue are able to be in a heigher vertical position which also lifts up your hyoidbone.

 

[KellSS]

Dnr

I just joined this forum and want to share something with you.

There seem to be too many in here that hasn’t got a single fucking clue about ascending. What I want to say is the palatal rugae and the maxillary sutures are litteraly the key to beauty. That in combination of a mobile tongue(there can’t be any restriction).
A restricted tongue is the reason why some of you incels have what you called negative canthal tilt.

The maxilla are linked to the Sphenoidbone which are linked to the orbits.

Once you put pressure on the incisive canal your orbits are indirectly affected and you get what’s called a positive cantal tilt.

All this cantal tilt looksmaxxing advice are straight cope, it won’t do a shit. The tongue on the other hand have the ability to change your appearance in an instance if it’s mobile enough.

I also want to point out that the reason as to why people often imo look less harmonious after jaw surgery is because the maxilla wasn’t moved enough forward in relationship to the tongue.

If you do a bimax and advance both of the jaws the same amount your tongue won’t be able to be further forward in the palate.

I also want to point out the importance of dental arch, abnormal expanding from mechanical force(marpe,EASE,FME) will not only make you look like a ogre but also in the long run lead to worse functional(since the sutures has such a big impact on our nervoussystem) fracturing them with mechanical force will lead to scar tissues filled in between.

If you have any question, I can show you example of everything and break it down.

Many that are in here are in here to look better, I don’t know where this uncanny hype to have as wide jaw as possible comes from?

You’ve been isolated for too long and totally lost sense of reality.

I had jaw surgery with Ramieri that was a botch and lead me to a rabbit hole.

I’ve been doing research everyday and would say I have better knowledge than a lot of the jaw surgeons on certain areas. It is an insult to me and the 10+ I’ve come in contact with that was totally botched by Ramieri. Seeing incels call him “the goat” isolated in their mom’s basement is a joke. I seriously start to belive that Ramieri in his staff has many accounts in here to market him. He has no knowledge of the tongue and its importance what so ever.

All the ones that were botched has a similar botch pattern(they all ended up with an open bite). A open bite is created when the tongue hasn’t any place in the mouth to rest(the importance of dental arch). The reason as to why we all don’t go around with open bites is because the tongue formed the dental arch during our youth, moving the mandible laterall or in just any direction to “fix” assymetry will lead to the tongue now finding the arch. When it not finds the dental arch it moves forward pushing at the incisors, not only that it automatically moves backward making your breathing worse.

When your tongue are inside of your dental arch your tongue are able to be in a heigher vertical position which also lifts up your hyoidbone.

Dnr + its chatgpt delete ur acc leave this forum asap

 

[Ldar09867]

I just joined this forum and want to share something with you.

There seem to be too many in here that hasn’t got a single fucking clue about ascending. What I want to say is the palatal rugae and the maxillary sutures are litteraly the key to beauty. That in combination of a mobile tongue(there can’t be any restriction).
A restricted tongue is the reason why some of you incels have what you called negative canthal tilt.

The maxilla are linked to the Sphenoidbone which are linked to the orbits.

Once you put pressure on the incisive canal your orbits are indirectly affected and you get what’s called a positive cantal tilt.

All this cantal tilt looksmaxxing advice are straight cope, it won’t do a shit. The tongue on the other hand have the ability to change your appearance in an instance if it’s mobile enough.

I also want to point out that the reason as to why people often imo look less harmonious after jaw surgery is because the maxilla wasn’t moved enough forward in relationship to the tongue.

If you do a bimax and advance both of the jaws the same amount your tongue won’t be able to be further forward in the palate.

I also want to point out the importance of dental arch, abnormal expanding from mechanical force(marpe,EASE,FME) will not only make you look like a ogre but also in the long run lead to worse functional(since the sutures has such a big impact on our nervoussystem) fracturing them with mechanical force will lead to scar tissues filled in between.

If you have any question, I can show you example of everything and break it down.

Many that are in here are in here to look better, I don’t know where this uncanny hype to have as wide jaw as possible comes from?

You’ve been isolated for too long and totally lost sense of reality.

I had jaw surgery with Ramieri that was a botch and lead me to a rabbit hole.

I’ve been doing research everyday and would say I have better knowledge than a lot of the jaw surgeons on certain areas. It is an insult to me and the 10+ I’ve come in contact with that was totally botched by Ramieri. Seeing incels call him “the goat” isolated in their mom’s basement is a joke. I seriously start to belive that Ramieri in his staff has many accounts in here to market him. He has no knowledge of the tongue and its importance what so ever.

All the ones that were botched has a similar botch pattern(they all ended up with an open bite). A open bite is created when the tongue hasn’t any place in the mouth to rest(the importance of dental arch). The reason as to why we all don’t go around with open bites is because the tongue formed the dental arch during our youth, moving the mandible laterall or in just any direction to “fix” assymetry will lead to the tongue now finding the arch. When it not finds the dental arch it moves forward pushing at the incisors, not only that it automatically moves backward making your breathing worse.

When your tongue are inside of your dental arch your tongue are able to be in a heigher vertical position which also lifts up your hyoidbone.

DNR a single word son

 

[Denkaren]

I would understand that a meatball Ghandi wouldn’t understand this

 

[Denkaren]

DNR a single word son

Reading it might save your life SHUN

 

[Ldar09867]

Reading it might save your life SHUN

Js summarise it gng

 

[Denkaren]

Js summarise it gng

Just read it hoe

 

[Ldar09867]

Just read it hoe

Got chatgpt to summarise so ur point is Tongue function, dental arch form, and maxillary positioning are more important for facial harmony and breathing than cosmetic jaw width or superficial aesthetic advice?

 

[Denkaren]

Spot on spot on spot on.

 

[Denkaren]

Got chatgpt to summarise so ur point is Tongue function, dental arch form, and maxillary positioning are more important for facial harmony and breathing than cosmetic jaw width or superficial aesthetic advice?

Spot on spot on spot on

 

[tweaqo]

All this cantal tilt looksmaxxing advice are straight cope, it won’t do a shit.

I think canthopexy helped my canthal tilt quite alot lol. Idk about you but I think a surgery that directly corrects the lateral canthus is gonna be more effective than my tongue.


I am interested in this Ramieri botch tho, tell me more

 

[Spieldren]

just know about looksmaxxing when you are in your mothers belly theory.

Once you put pressure on the incisive canal your orbits are indirectly affected and you get what’s called a positive cantal tilt.

one more grey and one more cope. "just mew to fix your canthal tilt"

 

[tweaqo]

@lurking truecel

 

[Ldar09867]

Spot on spot on spot on

Im not that knowledgeable on this topic but proper tongue posture to fix a negative canthalt tilt sounds like baloney

 

[jester triad]

I just joined this forum and want to share something with you.

There seem to be too many in here that hasn’t got a single fucking clue about ascending. What I want to say is the palatal rugae and the maxillary sutures are litteraly the key to beauty. That in combination of a mobile tongue(there can’t be any restriction).
A restricted tongue is the reason why some of you incels have what you called negative canthal tilt.

The maxilla are linked to the Sphenoidbone which are linked to the orbits.

Once you put pressure on the incisive canal your orbits are indirectly affected and you get what’s called a positive cantal tilt.

All this cantal tilt looksmaxxing advice are straight cope, it won’t do a shit. The tongue on the other hand have the ability to change your appearance in an instance if it’s mobile enough.

I also want to point out that the reason as to why people often imo look less harmonious after jaw surgery is because the maxilla wasn’t moved enough forward in relationship to the tongue.

If you do a bimax and advance both of the jaws the same amount your tongue won’t be able to be further forward in the palate.

I also want to point out the importance of dental arch, abnormal expanding from mechanical force(marpe,EASE,FME) will not only make you look like a ogre but also in the long run lead to worse functional(since the sutures has such a big impact on our nervoussystem) fracturing them with mechanical force will lead to scar tissues filled in between.

If you have any question, I can show you example of everything and break it down.

Many that are in here are in here to look better, I don’t know where this uncanny hype to have as wide jaw as possible comes from?

You’ve been isolated for too long and totally lost sense of reality.

I had jaw surgery with Ramieri that was a botch and lead me to a rabbit hole.

I’ve been doing research everyday and would say I have better knowledge than a lot of the jaw surgeons on certain areas. It is an insult to me and the 10+ I’ve come in contact with that was totally botched by Ramieri. Seeing incels call him “the goat” isolated in their mom’s basement is a joke. I seriously start to belive that Ramieri in his staff has many accounts in here to market him. He has no knowledge of the tongue and its importance what so ever.

All the ones that were botched has a similar botch pattern(they all ended up with an open bite). A open bite is created when the tongue hasn’t any place in the mouth to rest(the importance of dental arch). The reason as to why we all don’t go around with open bites is because the tongue formed the dental arch during our youth, moving the mandible laterall or in just any direction to “fix” assymetry will lead to the tongue now finding the arch. When it not finds the dental arch it moves forward pushing at the incisors, not only that it automatically moves backward making your breathing worse.

When your tongue are inside of your dental arch your tongue are able to be in a heigher vertical position which also lifts up your hyoidbone.

high iq post
do not get maxillary expansion unless you need it!!!

 

[Denkaren]

I mean it doesn’t, canthopexy comes with tremendous amount of risks, having your anterior part of your tongue pressing at the exact right spots on the incisive papilla while covering the palatal rugae will have a better affect, I can show you the difference. I’ve experimented enough with my tongue to see and notice these things.

The man is a fraud, a big big fraud and it’s irritating to see kids pushing his reputation to the sky without even having any form of experience with him.

Saying he is a “nice” guy on the consulation lmao.

He is a narcissist, very easy to see the pattern once you meet him, forced facial expression, forced blinking.

I know this because I met him after my botch trying to explain how my breathing got worse, how I got a open bite and how my tongue felt “too big” for my mouth all of a sudden.

He hasn’t got a single clue what he is doing, he is what I call a bone/cbct merchant. He hasn’t got a single clue about soft tissues and what is harmonious.

He has plenty of botched cases(in here it seems like he hasn’t any at all).

I was in an Italian Facebook group, at least 12 wrote about their botched cases.

 

[Denkaren]

just know about looksmaxxing when you are in your mothers belly theory.


one more grey and one more cope. "just mew to fix your canthal tilt"

Bch I’m not talking about a process where the cantal tilt is fixed in some months/years.

Your cantal tilt get fixed in an instance with the right pressure, INSTANCE.

 

[tweaqo]

I mean it doesn’t, canthopexy comes with tremendous amount of risks

What in the high inhib, no it doesn’t. I got it and I’m only 18 cus I’m low inhib. But of course botches can happen, and it is unfortunate.

The man is a fraud, a big big fraud and it’s irritating to see kids pushing his reputation to the sky without even having any form of experience with him.

Saying he is a “nice” guy on the consulation lmao.

He is a narcissist, very easy to see the pattern once you meet him, forced facial expression, forced blinking.

I know this because I met him after my botch trying to explain how my breathing got worse, how I got a open bite and how my tongue felt “too big” for my mouth all of a sudden.

He hasn’t got a single clue what he is doing, he is what I call a bone/cbct merchant. He hasn’t got a single clue about soft tissues and what is harmonious.

He has plenty of botched cases(in here it seems like he hasn’t any at all).

I was in an Italian Facebook group, at least 12 wrote about their botched cases.

thank you for sharing your experience, although we disagree about hardmaxxing, we can look out for one another to avoid botches.

So what happened, what did he try to do? What were your movements?

 

[Denkaren]

Im not that knowledgeable on this topic but proper tongue posture to fix a negative canthalt tilt sounds like baloney

The counterproductive thing is that making your canthal tilt positive isn’t about proper tongue posture.

It’s about GOOD TONGUE MOBILITY. Once your tongue are mobile and strong enough you will be able to put a stronger force(unconsciously) which will have an affect on your Sphenoidbone and orbits. Not only will your orbits have a better tilt but your cheekbones will look more prominent.

 

[Ldar09867]

The counterproductive thing is that making your canthal tilt positive isn’t about proper tongue posture.

It’s about GOOD TONGUE MOBILITY. Once your tongue are mobile and strong enough you will be able to put a stronger force(unconsciously) which will have an affect on your Sphenoidbone and orbits. Not only will your orbits have a better tilt but your cheekbones will look more prominent.

My tongue got good mobility It takes walkes round the block from time to time so I think im all good

 

[tweaqo]

Do u have CT scans to show?

 

[savemebimax]

Show how he botched you or these other 10+ botches you speak of

 

[Denkaren]

high iq post
do not get maxillary expansion unless you need it!!!

Yes exactly.

I would say just avoid it, I can list why you shouldn’t.

1. Assymetrical expansion, it will fuck you up, not only make you look like a mess but your whole skull genuinely gets twisted since the maxilla indirectly are linked to so many bones in your face. You will have uneven tongue pressure if the assymetry gets exacerbated. Uneven pressure will also twist your tongue and imo have a counterproductive affect on your breathing.

2. Abnormal expansion, it’s mainly anterior expansion, not what people really need posterior expansion, your palate will have a form that the tongue will have a hard time to adapt to(segemental le fort 1 with posterior expansion are imo superior(even though that also comes with risk of surgeon not taking your tongue in account forming it in a way that the tongue might not be able to adapt too).

3. Nasal widening(might throw your proportion off)

4. Arrogant people that follows narrative and hasn’t really got a good fundamental understanding of how the breathing works will say wider nasal cavity=easier to breathe through your nose.

Our body wants a small form of resistance, once the nasal resistance decrease after expansion the body create resistance further down the throat, affecting the oropharynx. I would like to call this placebo improvements, while it feels like the breathing is better after expansion(the reason why the hype from a functional perspective are so high) is because more air are coming through but it can’t get through as easy further down(oropharynx). The resistance basically changes position but since we are simple creatures we imagine that our breathing improves.

5. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING to get your mandible further forward(many people especially in here who always talks about recession have a trapped mandible). Their mandible are trapped because their ap(anterior-posterior) space of the tongue are to bad. The whole thing with thumbpulling is to lengthen the arch and increase the ap space for your tongue through light forces on the sutures that tends to respond. I dknt know if it’s even possible when they’ve tend to fused(the vast majority of fraud dentist/orthodontist say the suture fuse when your 16/18. I don’t know how true that is and to what extent you can affect the sutures . I’m going to try to increase my ap space with an osteopath.

Your mandible automatically moves backward when you aren’t able to have your tongue resting at some place in the palate. It must not be your whole tongue sealed, it’s enough with the front part having somewhere to be place for your mandible to move forward.

Retraction of the incisors by braces are the reason as to why many even need jaw surgery from the beginning. They’re maxilla collapse and the ap space decreases with up to 8-12 mm(in extraction cases).

6. The molar bands of the marpe will eventually further forward in life lead to early loss of the molars, the root will resorb.

7. Fracturing your sutures will affect your nervoussystem negative. Some I’ve been in contact with say they get sick all the time after expansion, some doesn’t feel like they are the same but can’t explain how. We haven’t got enough knowledge of exactly how big of an impact the sutures has on us. Limited knowledge and quick fix is the reason as to why mechanical expansion are so available right now.

8. Orthodontist are imo the most arrogant people that exist. Their whole education are imo frauded, braces are ALWAYS bad, ALWAYS. It is designed to straighten your teeth at the cost of moving in backward and more inwards. Your soft tissue will collaps, it will make your whole face look more narrow. The thing is after marpe providers have expanded, they want to close the gap as fast as possible, the fastest way is to retract. By retracting you LOSE AP SPACE.

Horizontal space are more important than transversal space from an aesthetic and functional perspective.

9. You might gain ~1 mm wider cheekbone but at the cost of your harmony. If your cheekbone widens your forhead and temples also need to get wider(which they don’t get from expansion) to maintain a harmony.

There is probably more things but this is the reasons I can think of now.

 

[AustrianMogger]

I just joined this forum and want to share something with you.

There seem to be too many in here that hasn’t got a single fucking clue about ascending. What I want to say is the palatal rugae and the maxillary sutures are litteraly the key to beauty. That in combination of a mobile tongue(there can’t be any restriction).
A restricted tongue is the reason why some of you incels have what you called negative canthal tilt.

The maxilla are linked to the Sphenoidbone which are linked to the orbits.

Once you put pressure on the incisive canal your orbits are indirectly affected and you get what’s called a positive cantal tilt.

All this cantal tilt looksmaxxing advice are straight cope, it won’t do a shit. The tongue on the other hand have the ability to change your appearance in an instance if it’s mobile enough.

I also want to point out that the reason as to why people often imo look less harmonious after jaw surgery is because the maxilla wasn’t moved enough forward in relationship to the tongue.

If you do a bimax and advance both of the jaws the same amount your tongue won’t be able to be further forward in the palate.

I also want to point out the importance of dental arch, abnormal expanding from mechanical force(marpe,EASE,FME) will not only make you look like a ogre but also in the long run lead to worse functional(since the sutures has such a big impact on our nervoussystem) fracturing them with mechanical force will lead to scar tissues filled in between.

If you have any question, I can show you example of everything and break it down.

Many that are in here are in here to look better, I don’t know where this uncanny hype to have as wide jaw as possible comes from?

You’ve been isolated for too long and totally lost sense of reality.

I had jaw surgery with Ramieri that was a botch and lead me to a rabbit hole.

I’ve been doing research everyday and would say I have better knowledge than a lot of the jaw surgeons on certain areas. It is an insult to me and the 10+ I’ve come in contact with that was totally botched by Ramieri. Seeing incels call him “the goat” isolated in their mom’s basement is a joke. I seriously start to belive that Ramieri in his staff has many accounts in here to market him. He has no knowledge of the tongue and its importance what so ever.

All the ones that were botched has a similar botch pattern(they all ended up with an open bite). A open bite is created when the tongue hasn’t any place in the mouth to rest(the importance of dental arch). The reason as to why we all don’t go around with open bites is because the tongue formed the dental arch during our youth, moving the mandible laterall or in just any direction to “fix” assymetry will lead to the tongue now finding the arch. When it not finds the dental arch it moves forward pushing at the incisors, not only that it automatically moves backward making your breathing worse.

When your tongue are inside of your dental arch your tongue are able to be in a heigher vertical position which also lifts up your hyoidbone.

Name a good surgeon then

 

[tweaqo]

What in the high inhib, no it doesn’t. I got it and I’m only 18 cus I’m low inhib. But of course botches can happen, and it is unfortunate.

thank you for sharing your experience, although we disagree about hardmaxxing, we can look out for one another to avoid botches.

So what happened, what did he try to do? What were your movements?

@Denkaren

Answer my questions

 

[Denkaren]

Name a good surgeon then

A surgeon that has knowledge about the TONGUE. I don’t even know if that exist since tongue education aren’t included in a jaw surgeons education. The only thing jaw surgeon knows is when you advance the mandible your tongue tends to advance too lmao. They haven’t got complex knowledge of exactly how big of an impact it has on everything which imo is absurd.

So to answer your question, I don’t know.

The ones that point out the importance of the tongue and have taken some myofunctional education are imo superior. The reason as to why people from the beginning have to look around for so long because many surgeons results are underwhelming is because lack of knowledge regarding the tongue.

 

[AustrianMogger]

A surgeon that has knowledge about the TONGUE. I don’t even know if that exist since tongue education aren’t included in a jaw surgeons education. The only thing jaw surgeon knows is when you advance the mandible your tongue tends to advance too lmao. They haven’t got complex knowledge of exactly how big of an impact it has on everything which imo is absurd.

So to answer your question, I don’t know.

The ones that point out the importance of the tongue and have taken some myofunctional education are imo superior. The reason as to why people from the beginning have to look around for so long because many surgeons results are underwhelming is because lack of knowledge regarding the tongue.

Does Ramieri do cosmetic only surgerys ?

 

[Denkaren]

Listen Ramieri is incompetent, he doesn’t understand certain things you should understand as a surgeon.

If you truely analyse his before and after you will see how underwhelming they are. The reason as to why Raffainis or what his name is result looks better is because of soft tissue enhancement, without that his results would probably be the same.

Ramieri has a skewed impression of aesthetics and harmony. He doesn’t know that your soft tissues are affected by your tongue. As I said a cbct/bone merchant.

 

[Denkaren]

What in the high inhib, no it doesn’t. I got it and I’m only 18 cus I’m low inhib. But of course botches can happen, and it is unfortunate.

thank you for sharing your experience, although we disagree about hardmaxxing, we can look out for one another to avoid botches.

So what happened, what did he try to do? What were your movements?

I was young, naive and was suffering from body dysmorohia. He took advantage of that in an instance. I got rejected by 3 surgeons beforehand that said they wouldn’t do surgery on me. I had already decided that I needed to do this surgery to fix my aesthetic problems. As I said I was young(this was 2 years ago, I was 17 when I convinced myself that I needed to do this). I had a assymetrical problem, a crossbite that made my mandible look assymetrical.

He said he could correct this with bsso lateral movement of the mandible and genioplasty(I thought it would be a sliding genioplasty but he had other plans in mind without informing me). He moved the mandible(your tongue are attached on the mandible. By moving my mandible laterally my tounge was now off from the dental arch. When your tongue are off it can’t rest anywhere inside of the dental arch, so it push at the incisors(the reason as to why I got an open bite and many others from him). Not only did I get an open bite I was stressed as fuck because I got short of breathing by just speaking, sleeping was a nightmare. I decided to isolate myself because I couldn’t speak without having breathing issues.

Not only that but he had formed my chin in such a weird FUCKING way(as I said, nothing he informed me off beforehand). I went from good looking to uncanny.

It was during this period I started to experiment with my tongue, moved it in different directions. I realised that I could breathe once I force the tongue back to where it was initially(hence 3 mm back). I started to see and understand the pattern but wanted to find someone’s philosophy that agreed with my own. I found out about Dr Darick Nordstrom and read articles he had wrote(imo a TRUE GENIUS). He has wrote a lot about sleep apnea and the importance of the dental arch.

Now I knew that I wasn’t voting crazy and that the reason as to why I had so hard to breathe was that my tongue weren’t able to be inside of the dental arch anymore. Before I go to bed I always make sure to place the tongue ~3 mm more to the side it was before.

The main reason as to why people have crossbite and look assymetrical is because of their palate and habits when you’re young.

I took a intraoral scan of my palate and saw how me left palatal side were 3 mm wider than my right. The reason as to why I had a crossbite was because I had my tongue(unconsciously) more on the left(wider side) than the right. The tongue basically pushed the mandible to a crossbite.

My theory as to why I have an uneven palate from the beginning is because I always slept on my right side ALWAYS, which made that palatal side cave more inwards when the suture were still loose.

What I want to imply is that surgeons(definitely Ramieri) is big big frauds. Nothing of this would’ve happend if they had knowledge of the tongue and dental arch.

I’m not saying that people should feel sorry for my situation, I have myself to blame that I trusted a narcissist. I could see through his trait on the very first consulation but choose to go with him since it was such a small movement and my dentist had a relation with him.

I’m not going to fix this by having a new surgery in February to move the mandible back to its initial position(which will fix the breathing problem). Unfortunately I’m going to be left with my assymetry issue(now worse since he decided to form my chin so weird. I think I’m going to fix the bite with a ALF provider afterwards.

The ironical thing is that I do now have a crossbite but a 3 mm crossbite to the other side lmao. I told him about all of this too and he was totally apathetic and changed subject.

I can send videos showing the difference if you want to.

 

[tweaqo]

I was young, naive and was suffering from body dysmorohia. He took advantage of that in an instance. I got rejected by 3 surgeons beforehand that said they wouldn’t do surgery on me. I had already decided that I needed to do this surgery to fix my aesthetic problems. As I said I was young(this was 2 years ago, I was 17 when I convinced myself that I needed to do this). I had a assymetrical problem, a crossbite that made my mandible look assymetrical.

He said he could correct this with bsso lateral movement of the mandible and genioplasty(I thought it would be a sliding genioplasty but he had other plans in mind without informing me). He moved the mandible(your tongue are attached on the mandible. By moving my mandible laterally my tounge was now off from the dental arch. When your tongue are off it can’t rest anywhere inside of the dental arch, so it push at the incisors(the reason as to why I got an open bite and many others from him). Not only did I get an open bite I was stressed as fuck because I got short of breathing by just speaking, sleeping was a nightmare. I decided to isolate myself because I couldn’t speak without having breathing issues.

Not only that but he had formed my chin in such a weird FUCKING way(as I said, nothing he informed me off beforehand). I went from good looking to uncanny.

It was during this period I started to experiment with my tongue, moved it in different directions. I realised that I could breathe once I force the tongue back to where it was initially(hence 3 mm back). I started to see and understand the pattern but wanted to find someone’s philosophy that agreed with my own. I found out about Dr Darick Nordstrom and read articles he had wrote(imo a TRUE GENIUS). He has wrote a lot about sleep apnea and the importance of the dental arch.

Now I knew that I wasn’t voting crazy and that the reason as to why I had so hard to breathe was that my tongue weren’t able to be inside of the dental arch anymore. Before I go to bed I always make sure to place the tongue ~3 mm more to the side it was before.

The main reason as to why people have crossbite and look assymetrical is because of their palate and habits when you’re young.

I took a intraoral scan of my palate and saw how me left palatal side were 3 mm wider than my right. The reason as to why I had a crossbite was because I had my tongue(unconsciously) more on the left(wider side) than the right. The tongue basically pushed the mandible to a crossbite.

My theory as to why I have an uneven palate from the beginning is because I always slept on my right side ALWAYS, which made that palatal side cave more inwards when the suture were still loose.

What I want to imply is that surgeons(definitely Ramieri) is big big frauds. Nothing of this would’ve happend if they had knowledge of the tongue and dental arch.

I’m not saying that people should feel sorry for my situation, I have myself to blame that I trusted a narcissist. I could see through his trait on the very first consulation but choose to go with him since it was such a small movement and my dentist had a relation with him.

I’m not going to fix this by having a new surgery in February to move the mandible back to its initial position(which will fix the breathing problem). Unfortunately I’m going to be left with my assymetry issue(now worse since he decided to form my chin so weird. I think I’m going to fix the bite with a ALF provider afterwards.

The ironical thing is that I do now have a crossbite but a 3 mm crossbite to the other side lmao. I told him about all of this too and he was totally apathetic and changed subject.

I can send videos showing the difference if you want to.

Sure send videos, on message or on the thread.


But do u not think that because u had these issues (crossbite, poor palatel width etc.) that your case was more complex?

I, for example have quite a simple case of class 2 skeletal, and would benefit from bimax, forward movement only (not a massive movement). So therefore not much can go wrong.

 

[tyler1234]

I was young, naive and was suffering from body dysmorohia. He took advantage of that in an instance. I got rejected by 3 surgeons beforehand that said they wouldn’t do surgery on me. I had already decided that I needed to do this surgery to fix my aesthetic problems. As I said I was young(this was 2 years ago, I was 17 when I convinced myself that I needed to do this). I had a assymetrical problem, a crossbite that made my mandible look assymetrical.

He said he could correct this with bsso lateral movement of the mandible and genioplasty(I thought it would be a sliding genioplasty but he had other plans in mind without informing me). He moved the mandible(your tongue are attached on the mandible. By moving my mandible laterally my tounge was now off from the dental arch. When your tongue are off it can’t rest anywhere inside of the dental arch, so it push at the incisors(the reason as to why I got an open bite and many others from him). Not only did I get an open bite I was stressed as fuck because I got short of breathing by just speaking, sleeping was a nightmare. I decided to isolate myself because I couldn’t speak without having breathing issues.

Not only that but he had formed my chin in such a weird FUCKING way(as I said, nothing he informed me off beforehand). I went from good looking to uncanny.

It was during this period I started to experiment with my tongue, moved it in different directions. I realised that I could breathe once I force the tongue back to where it was initially(hence 3 mm back). I started to see and understand the pattern but wanted to find someone’s philosophy that agreed with my own. I found out about Dr Darick Nordstrom and read articles he had wrote(imo a TRUE GENIUS). He has wrote a lot about sleep apnea and the importance of the dental arch.

Now I knew that I wasn’t voting crazy and that the reason as to why I had so hard to breathe was that my tongue weren’t able to be inside of the dental arch anymore. Before I go to bed I always make sure to place the tongue ~3 mm more to the side it was before.

The main reason as to why people have crossbite and look assymetrical is because of their palate and habits when you’re young.

I took a intraoral scan of my palate and saw how me left palatal side were 3 mm wider than my right. The reason as to why I had a crossbite was because I had my tongue(unconsciously) more on the left(wider side) than the right. The tongue basically pushed the mandible to a crossbite.

My theory as to why I have an uneven palate from the beginning is because I always slept on my right side ALWAYS, which made that palatal side cave more inwards when the suture were still loose.

What I want to imply is that surgeons(definitely Ramieri) is big big frauds. Nothing of this would’ve happend if they had knowledge of the tongue and dental arch.

I’m not saying that people should feel sorry for my situation, I have myself to blame that I trusted a narcissist. I could see through his trait on the very first consulation but choose to go with him since it was such a small movement and my dentist had a relation with him.

I’m not going to fix this by having a new surgery in February to move the mandible back to its initial position(which will fix the breathing problem). Unfortunately I’m going to be left with my assymetry issue(now worse since he decided to form my chin so weird. I think I’m going to fix the bite with a ALF provider afterwards.

The ironical thing is that I do now have a crossbite but a 3 mm crossbite to the other side lmao. I told him about all of this too and he was totally apathetic and changed subject.

I can send videos showing the difference if you want to.

How will moving ur mandible backwards fix breathing issues

 

[Denkaren]

He doesnt take the palate width in consideration.

I told him afterwards that my palate was assymetrical, it was like a chock for him.

He wanted to prove it wasn’t and showed measurements in front of me. While doing that he realised that it was in fact wider on the left than the right and once again changed subject.

He told me “then expand more on the other side”. That was his exact word regarding the exposing of the assymetrical palate. Regarding the open bite, he said “I will not do that for free you will have to pay full price, all I’m going to do is close it if you chose to do it”. I imagine he wanted to close it by doing clockwise rotation since he genuinely haven’t got a clue about the tongue and the affect of a ccw rotational jaw and cw rotational jaw. I sincerely belive he has started to do ccw rotation based of patients requirements. He is sincerely incompetent in person too, if you have basic knowledge in this subject and hears what he says you will understand that this person shouldn’t be a jaw surgeon. I might sound biased now because he totally botched me but he is a fraud. He also for some strange reason decided to enlarge my ramus by torquing it(nothing I agreed of) sort of his frauding way of trying to fix the assymetry. My face lost all its harmony from that and his chin shaving(a shaving he basically always does on patients). His chin shaving expose how truely incompetent he is at aesthetics.

Now this might sound silly and ridiculous but after the surgery he wanted to write something on a paper showing something. The writing was horrendous, it looked like a 10 year old, one would think that a jaw surgeon had some writing skills since forming jaw is an art.

Seeing people calling him modern day Da Vinci on his instagram comments is laughable.

Not only does he fraud with his chin forming, he has fake followers, fake likes. All to seem more attractive to insecure people that doesn’t know which surgeon to choose.

He take advantage of the weak. I also gets irritated when I read some thread saying “ah Ramieri didn’t want to do a surgery on me, he has stopped answering me blablabla”. Those accounts that writes that in this thread are 100% Ramieri or his coworkers, that is a trick for him. He want people to think of him as someone ethical and someone that has good morals. He don’t give a fuck lmao, he takes every single cases there is because he is a narcissist.

It’s irritating to see how fooled autistic people gets, that’s why I feel the need to explain exactly how he works.

English is my third language so some things might be incoherent but I hope my point reach out to the ones having him in mind.

 

[Denkaren]

How will moving ur mandible backwards fix breathing issues

I didn’t have any breathing issues prior to surgery you fag. If you read what I wrote you would see that I never wrote that I had breathing issues. I had issues with my assymetry since I had body dysmorohia.

I do have breathing issues now after the surgery(if you have issues with your cerebral cortex fix that before going to Ramieri). Moving the tounge back to its initial position(inside of the dental arch) makes my breathing better. If I wouldn’t have done tongue experiments and found those techniques I would have taken my life amigo.

 

[tyler1234]

What were ur movements originally

 

[Denkaren]

What were ur movements originally

 

[Denkaren]

r

 

[Denkaren]

Laterall movement of the mandible, 3 mm.

He did for some reason decide to set the mandible back ~1.5-2 mm too. That set back might’ve negatively affect my orophranyx a little bit(my epiglottis tend to fall back easier afterwards), though that it not the main reason to my breathing issues. The issue is the tongue not being central in the arch that is has formed through all my life.

When it’s not in the arch it automatically rest on the alveolar bone which makes the vertical height lower. When your vertical height of your tongue are low your whole face collaps(especially if you’ve had it in a heigh position before). When your tongue have a low vertical position in your mouth it can’t work as it was suppose to. I developed bruxism afterwards too(many don’t know this but the main reason to bruxism and overworked masseseter is because of low tongue position). When your masseseter work overtime you will get a square face extremly disharmonious.

Low tongue position=sleep apnea, functional issues, headaches, scoliosis. This is because it falls back automatically when it’s not in a height position or attached anywhere in the palate.

 

[tweaqo]

So were you a class 3?