Theory Modified MSE Design and why things like Mewing or MSE + Facemask does not work

noprogressno

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Well the pressure is spread against more teeth so it wont be as concentrated.
Isn't that the point though... To not waste the force on the teeth? The only reason I can think of is the additional stabilization molar bands provide for MSE
 
noprogressno

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this is a cool idea, but when I was considering using the mse as an anchor, I tested if it could withstand being pulled on, but any form of forward force resulted in a lot of pain, and was completely unsustainable
Or were you replying to @spark
 
spark

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Isn't that the point though... To not waste the force on the teeth? The only reason I can think of is the additional stabilization molar bands provide for MSE
the less concentrated the force the less force is applied to each individual tooth
 
spark

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@noprogressno
@alienmaxxer

Have you guys seen this interview? Moon talks about almost everything mentioned in this thread.


>alt ramec with MSE is much more dangerous than with hyrax and can cause hemorrhages
>MSE loosens up ALL maxillary sutures and the protracion isn't just in the alveolar but similar to lefort 3 and moves forward even the orbitals
>bollard plates together with MSE are better than a facemask
>molar damage is extremely unlikely with MSE 2 due to the soft arms of the appliance compared to MSE 1. Also depends on the skill of the ortho. If the screws fail more force goes into the arm. A study of 50 patients with MSE 2 showed 96% of the expansion is in the bone, only 4% in the molar the arms are attached to.

Of course these are Moon's words so they don't have to be 100% true but still.
 
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@noprogressno
@alienmaxxer

Have you guys seen this interview? Moon talks about almost everything mentioned in this thread.


>alt ramec with MSE is much more dangerous than with hyrax and can cause hemorrhages
>MSE loosens up ALL maxillary sutures and the protracion isn't just in the alveolar but similar to lefort 3 and moves forward even the orbitals
>bollard plates together with MSE are better than a facemask
>molar damage is extremely unlikely with MSE 2 due to the soft arms of the appliance compared to MSE 1. Also depends on the skill of the ortho. If the screws fail more force goes into the arm. A study of 50 patients with MSE 2 showed 96% of the expansion is in the bone, only 4% in the molar the arms are attached to.

Of course these are Moon's words so they don't have to be 100% true but still.


A study of 50 patients with MSE,

I’m gonna stop you right there.


Mse is primarily used on children and I have no doubt they can achieve successful expansion with minimal molar disruption. Unless we know the ages, duration, molar tooth exposure over long term basis this is useless. Mse is a recent tool and has no long term data on adults. Go ahead use something that can potentiate root exposure from plaque/bacteria buildup, unnatural molar bending, awkward dentine blood pulp flow, etc etc.
 
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@noprogressno
@alienmaxxer

Have you guys seen this interview? Moon talks about almost everything mentioned in this thread.


>alt ramec with MSE is much more dangerous than with hyrax and can cause hemorrhages
>MSE loosens up ALL maxillary sutures and the protracion isn't just in the alveolar but similar to lefort 3 and moves forward even the orbitals
>bollard plates together with MSE are better than a facemask
>molar damage is extremely unlikely with MSE 2 due to the soft arms of the appliance compared to MSE 1. Also depends on the skill of the ortho. If the screws fail more force goes into the arm. A study of 50 patients with MSE 2 showed 96% of the expansion is in the bone, only 4% in the molar the arms are attached to.

Of course these are Moon's words so they don't have to be 100% true but still.


One of the leading causes of gum disease is actually dental work. No amount of money can make me go back in time and install a device that can potentiate tooth (aka bone) loss long term in MY FACE. Having strong roots and preserving them is the best way to preserve your look. The opposite is the worst and fastest way to lose them.
 
spark

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A study of 50 patients with MSE,

I’m gonna stop you right there.


Mse is primarily used on children and I have no doubt they can achieve successful expansion with minimal molar disruption. Unless we know the ages, duration, molar tooth exposure over long term basis this is useless. Mse is a recent tool and has no long term data on adults. Go ahead use something that can potentiate root exposure from plaque/bacteria buildup, unnatural molar bending, awkward dentine blood pulp flow, etc etc.
These are Moon's words. It would make sense though because you are the only one whom I heard talk about this. It seems like your case didn't go very well. He is the creator of the appliance and he is not aware of this being a problem with MSE 2. Of course he can be reckless or bullshitting us. Did your case also utilize the use of MSE 2?
 
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Millie 💕
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These are Moon's words. It would make sense though because you are the only one whom I heard talk about this. It seems like your case didn't go very well. He is the creator of the appliance and he is not aware of this being a problem with MSE 2. Of course he can be reckless or bullshitting us. Did your case also utilize the use of MSE 2?

Yes let’s use the words of someone selling the treatment or the license for the treatment.

By that logic AGGA is safe bc AGGA providers tell me it has no long term detriment to gum health
The problem is no amount of autistic circle jerking and theorizing will give any of you guys a upperhand over your root biology. Unless you’re younger than 14

The reality is that molar torquing has a very high chance of root exposure down the line. Shifting the molars from their pulp (the literal blood supply that feeds the bone which makes the enamel/dentine) will slowly erode the gum line between the molar and the premolar.
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F3D48279 E4BE 4032 90E6 B9AAD88AFD60


The gums bw the teeth are incredibly vital. When you shift and torque the molars and create a separation and divide in the gumline bw the molar and the premolar/wisdom, you’ve now rendered them open to extreme sensitivity. Like throwing a once warm house cat outside during winter. Can it survive short term (~5-10 years)? Sure. Long term. No chance. The teeth bone is not comparable to any other bone due to its exterior nature. Unlike bone from the femur for example which can heal irrespective of age due to extensive nutrient absorption from the blood, teeth has no such phenomenon. Preserving should be at the top of everyone’s priority as loss of enamel, dentine, and gumline has no reversal.

Options like gum graft or dental implants are only gum/bone mimicking placeholders.
 
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Preserve teeth. Don’t fall for autistic circlejerking and excessive daydreaming. None of this is substantiated by long term data or science. The only people getting MSE treatment are kids, people with narrow palate that only need bw 3-5mm of safe and slow expansion or autistic looksmaxxers who want “MUH cheekbone mid face lateral minimum 12mm expansion:feelstastyman::feelstastyman:” and will end up like this in a decade


And for the directionless hounds that still won’t heed my words and get the “safe 3-5mm of expansion”, let you tell you now that that little expansion will have zero ZERO affect on how you look

 
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spark

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Yes let’s use the words of someone selling the treatment or the license for the treatment.

By that logic AGGA is safe bc AGGA providers tell me it has no long term detriment to gum health
The problem is no amount of autistic circle jerking and theorizing will give any of you guys a upperhand over your root biology. Unless you’re younger than 14

The reality is that molar torquing has a very high chance of root exposure down the line. Shifting the molars from their pulp (the literal blood supply that feeds the bone which makes the enamel/dentine) will slowly erode the gum line between the molar and the premolar.
View attachment 1642786 View attachment 1642788

The gums bw the teeth are incredibly vital. When you shift and torque the molars and create a separation and divide in the gumline bw the molar and the premolar/wisdom, you’ve now rendered them open to extreme sensitivity. Like throwing a once warm house cat outside during winter. Can it survive short term (~5-10 years)? Sure. Long term. No chance. The teeth bone is not comparable to any other bone due to its exterior nature. Unlike bone from the femur for example which can heal irrespective of age due to extensive nutrient absorption from the blood, teeth has no such phenomenon. Preserving should be at the top of everyone’s priority as loss of enamel, dentine, and gumline has no reversal.

Options like gum graft or dental implants are only gum/bone mimicking placeholders.
That is not the same logic. Even though there are orthos and dentists who push the AGGA scam there is nothing bone borne about it. Also the horror stories are abundant everywhere on the net. If I remember correctly there was even a whole article in the New York Times dedicated to a lawsuit against an AGGA provider. Moon made his case why MSE 2 doesn't do much harm to the teeth because the MSE arms are much softer than in the first MSE. Of course he could be wrong but the two are not comparable at all. AGGA is a complete scam.

Regarding your reiteration of how only people with narrow palate should get MSE. It's odd you keep repeating this. I mean the vast majority of people looking to get MSE are precisely people with narrow palates. Even I have a narrow palate and bad nasal breathing. It's not like most of us just want to be "extra wide" to look more "chadish" and whatnot.
 
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That is not the same logic. Even though there are orthos and dentists who push the AGGA scam there is nothing bone borne about it. Also the horror stories are abundant everywhere on the net. If I remember correctly there was even a whole article in the New York Times dedicated to a lawsuit against an AGGA provider. Moon made his case why MSE 2 doesn't do much harm to the teeth because the MSE arms are much softer than in the first MSE. Of course he could be wrong but the two are not comparable at all. AGGA is a complete scam.

Regarding your reiteration of how only people with narrow palate should get MSE. It's odd you keep repeating this. I mean the vast majority of people looking to get MSE are precisely people with narrow palates. Even I have a narrow palate and bad nasal breathing. It's not like most of us just want to be "extra wide" to look more "chadish" and whatnot.

Oh is that why every week there is a thread about “should I get mse or malar implants for more cheekbone width”

It’s a bunch of people without any direction hoping “smart” forum members will prescribe them new bone remodeling “natural” implant alternatives to turn them into chad. People are vain. That’s the Blackpill. Even during Invisalign treatment the first thing they ask you is what’s your primary motive. And first thing they say is “well I can promise I’ll get you a beautiful smile”

Look again at the jawhacks interview with vaughn and ting. “Alot of my viewers keep asking btw if this device can make the lateral cheekbones wider”. It’s highly disingenuous to say that people obsessed with becoming chad are ONLY looking for mild breathing improvement. Because majority of broke people on this forum will definitely choose mse if there was a scenario where someone told them with certainty that malar implants will make them chad???? The vast majority would forget about mse and jump at whatever new thing they’ve now been coddled into believing is the chad making secret recipe.

To retiterate: mse is cope for improving your looks. Go ahead if you want to spend it for mild breathing improvement (that which can also be with done with sarpe in a faster more predictable and less detrimental fashion)
 
goat2x

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Im not saying mewing works but supposedly mewing works by creating new bone in the edges of the suture not neceserrarily splitting it
 
spark

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Oh is that why every week there is a thread about “should I get mse or malar implants for more cheekbone width”

It’s a bunch of people without any direction hoping “smart” forum members will prescribe them new bone remodeling “natural” implant alternatives to turn them into chad. People are vain. That’s the Blackpill. Even during Invisalign treatment the first thing they ask you is what’s your primary motive. And first thing they say is “well I can promise I’ll get you a beautiful smile”

Look again at the jawhacks interview with vaughn and ting. “Alot of my viewers keep asking btw if this device can make the lateral cheekbones wider”. It’s highly disingenuous to say that people obsessed with becoming chad are ONLY looking for mild breathing improvement. Because majority of broke people on this forum will definitely choose mse if there was a scenario where someone told them with certainty that malar implants will make them chad???? The vast majority would forget about mse and jump at whatever new thing they’ve now been coddled into believing is the chad making secret recipe.

To retiterate: mse is cope for improving your looks. Go ahead if you want to spend it for mild breathing improvement (that which can also be with done with sarpe in a faster more predictable and less detrimental fashion)
As far as I know the improvement isn't mild. Even Ronald, the guy you have just mentioned said his nasal breathing improved tremendously. People here might talk about MSE but remember people here talk about getting lefort 2 or 3 all the time and nobody is getting that. In fact I don't think any of the famous surgeons talked about here even offer it. SARPE widens the bottom part of your maxilla while not doing anything for the upper. Both aesthetically and breathing wise an inferior result. The higher predictability is true though. There is a nerve damage potential there too. Didn't Vaughn say there is always some nerve damage but then downplayed it? That is what I remember at least.
 
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As far as I know the improvement isn't mild. Even Ronald, the guy you have just mentioned said his nasal breathing improved tremendously. People here might talk about MSE but remember people here talk about getting lefort 2 or 3 all the time and nobody is getting that. In fact I don't think any of the famous surgeons talked about here even offer it. SARPE widens the bottom part of your maxilla while not doing anything for the upper. Both aesthetically and breathing wise an inferior result. The higher predictability is true though. There is a nerve damage potential there too. Didn't Vaughn say there is always some nerve damage but then downplayed it? That is what I remember at least.

Nerve damage from surgery is a massive misnomer. Nerve takes 5 plus years to heal. They take longer than even bone to heal.

There is no such thing as aesthetically pleasing mse result. It widens the alar base and gives paranasal fullness. If you’re a 35 year old woman good job. Paranasal hollowing is masculine combined with good cheekbones. Mse makes BOTH wider in conjunction and makes you look like you have a wide Asianesqe moon face.

35A4D89B 39ED 4F18 92FF 6EBCB9511AEB

Jesus Christ the cognitive dissonance runs very deep on this website. I can literally break everything down and the autism here will still prevail. The heart is sealed to the facts. The mind is made up. We have nothing else to talk about. Good luck.
 
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Im not saying mewing works but supposedly mewing works by creating new bone in the edges of the suture not neceserrarily splitting it
A well needed laugh
 
spark

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Nerve damage from surgery is a massive misnomer. Nerve takes 5 plus years to heal. They take longer than even bone to heal.

There is no such thing as aesthetically pleasing mse result. It widens the alar base and gives paranasal fullness. If you’re a 35 year old woman good job. Paranasal hollowing is masculine combined with good cheekbones. Mse makes BOTH wider in conjunction and makes you look like you have a wide Asianesqe moon face.

View attachment 1642838
Jesus Christ the cognitive dissonance runs very deep on this website. I can literally break everything down and the autism here will still prevail. The heart is sealed to the facts. The mind is made up. We have nothing else to talk about. Good luck.
Why did you post a photo of someone who didn't even get MSE as proof MSE cannot provide an aesthetically pleasing result and then babble something about cognitive dissonance?
 
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Why did you post a photo of someone who didn't even get MSE as proof MSE cannot provide an aesthetically pleasing result and then babble something about cognitive dissonance?

It’s the difference bw a hollow paranasal vs a full paranasal

Nuance
 
spark

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It’s the difference bw a hollow paranasal vs a full paranasal

Nuance
I think Ronald himself achieved an aesthetically pleasing result. Nothing major but he wasn't that super narrow to begin with.
RonaldMSEchange
 
goat2x

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Laughing stock
Like you have been a laughing stock all your life by your peers you autistic bullied bitch i didnt even say anything outrageous all i said is it can probably widen the palate thats it:feelsgood:

Your fucking autistic subhuman ass has to live out his fantasies on incel forums so you have to have a word for anything others say

go kill yourself immediately
 
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I think Ronald himself achieved an aesthetically pleasing result. Nothing major but he wasn't that super narrow to begin with.

E9307164 38F1 4303 A1D8 60C67B1A5F07
Pre mse
E154D1A3 4B9E 48DA AE80 72605DFE0C09
Post mse

Destroyed his alar base, lips (aka any and all harmony he previously had) for the most minimum lateral expansion.

Sorry buddy I didn’t want to do it to you but your next coping mechanism is utter garbage.
 
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Like you have been a laughing stock all your life by your peers you autistic bullied bitch i didnt even say anything outrageous all i said is it can probably widen the palate thats it:feelsgood:

Your fucking autistic subhuman ass has to live out his fantasies on incel forums so you have to have a word for anything others say

go kill yourself immediately

Circus clown
 
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Like you have been a laughing stock all your life by your peers you autistic bullied bitch i didnt even say anything outrageous all i said is it can probably widen the palate thats it:feelsgood:

Your fucking autistic subhuman ass has to live out his fantasies on incel forums so you have to have a word for anything others say

go kill yourself immediately
lol, ignore this troll
 
spark

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View attachment 1642852 Pre mse
View attachment 1642853 Post mse

Destroyed his alar base, lips (aka any and all harmony he previously had) for the most minimum lateral expansion.

Sorry buddy I didn’t want to do it to you but your next coping mechanism is utter garbage.
Didn't want to do what? Post some random cherry picked screenshots from his youtube videos going frame by frame until you found the grimace that fit your preconceived view then compared it to a different cherry picked frame from another video after posting a before/after of a guy who didn't even get an MSE and you still thought you made an argument that wasn't a complete waste of time? :unsure::unsure::unsure:

I posted his before after made from the same distance same lens same angle same grimace. If you want to compare full face before after photos albeit from a different angle show his IG pictures:
1650462643199


Of course you wouldn't do that because he clearly looks better after than before. You really are embarrassing yourself in this thread not gonna lie.
 
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Didn't want to do what? Post some random cherry picked screenshots from his youtube videos going frame by frame until you found the grimace that fit your preconceived view then compared it to a different cherry picked frame from another video after posting a before/after of a guy who didn't even get an MSE and you still thought you made an argument that wasn't a complete waste of time? :unsure::unsure::unsure:

I posted his before after made from the same distance same lens same angle same grimace. If you want to compare full face before after photos albeit from a different angle show his IG pictures:
View attachment 1642872

Of course you wouldn't do that because he clearly looks better after than before. You really are embarrassing yourself in this thread not gonna lie.

“Same angle” bc women definitely cherry pick the middle of your face and not the whole face and how it harmonizes in conjunction :feelstastyman:

All of your “before” pics are him POST AGGA. Do you have any idea what AGGA does to the jaw and temporomandibular joints. That’s the actual reason he looks how he looks in the before.

Oh but let’s not disclose that.

Sit down.
 
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Didn't want to do what? Post some random cherry picked screenshots from his youtube videos going frame by frame until you found the grimace that fit your preconceived view then compared it to a different cherry picked frame from another video after posting a before/after of a guy who didn't even get an MSE and you still thought you made an argument that wasn't a complete waste of time? :unsure::unsure::unsure:

I posted his before after made from the same distance same lens same angle same grimace. If you want to compare full face before after photos albeit from a different angle show his IG pictures:
View attachment 1642872

Of course you wouldn't do that because he clearly looks better after than before. You really are embarrassing yourself in this thread not gonna lie.
His face looks the same but he lost jaw volume thats why it looks bit different
 
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“Same angle” bc women definitely cherry pick the middle of your face and not the whole face and how it harmonizes in conjunction :feelstastyman:

All of your “before” pics are him POST AGGA. Do you have any idea what AGGA does to the jaw and temporomandibular joints. That’s the actual reason he looks how he looks in the before.

Oh but let’s not disclose that.

Sit down.
Of course they are post AGGA because all of the after photos are also post AGGA. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

I thought we were comparing MSE results not AGGA results? What kind of an argument are you even trying to make? He clearly looks better after MSE than before.
 
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Of course they are post AGGA because all of the after photos are also post AGGA. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

I thought we were comparing MSE results not AGGA results? What kind of an argument are you even trying to make? He clearly looks better after MSE than before.

Are you low iq or just being annoying out of spite

You can’t compare him post agga. Agga destroyed his jaw and TMJ.

Normal people don’t look like that.

To compare if the improvement was marginal, substantial or null it has to be compared to his ORIGINAL pre AGGA face. We have to compare him post mse to how he looked before any treatment.

You’re comparing a botched post agga guy with destroyed tmj and essentially saying look he looks better after mse.

Most people aren’t botching their TMJ, descending and then getting MSE to look like their original selves. Proving my point that mse does nothing but destroys your alar base, creates disharmony bw the upper and lower lip from upper lip exceeding the lower lip, and makes the paranasal fuller giving a feminine effect.
 
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Are you low iq or just being annoying out of spite

You can’t compare him post agga. Agga destroyed his jaw and TMJ.

Normal people don’t look like that.

To compare if the improvement was marginal, substantial or null it has to be compared to his ORIGINAL pre AGGA face. We have to compare him to how he looked before any treatment.

You’re comparing a botched post agga guy with destroyed tmj and essentially saying look he looks better after mse.

Most people aren’t botching their TMJ, descending and then getting MSE to look like their original selves. Proving my point that mse does nothing but destroys your alar base, creates disharmony bw the upper and lower lip from upper lip exceeding the lower lip, and makes the paranasal fuller giving a feminine effect.
I am comparing MSE. Not AGGA. Your logical thinking is very poor I see. If you want to compare his before afters without AGGA and want to be logically sound you must provide his afters without AGGA as well. Good luck with that.
Picard facepalm
 
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The only thing he lost was his pair shaped face
View attachment 1642894

This is not how his face looked pre agga treatment. Agga makes the jaw look like this by pushing it forward from the temporomandibular joint. When the jaw dislocates from the joint it cleaves forward giving the jaw a very wide and blocky appearance
 
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I am comparing MSE. Not AGGA. Your logical thinking is very poor I see. If you want to compare his before afters without AGGA and want to be logically sound you must provide his afters without AGGA as well. Good luck with that.
View attachment 1642906

Yes retard you’re comparing his mse results to post agga face not his REAL pre treatment face.

Like as if you expect us to believe that he ascended when in reality he descended to the graveyard from a faulty gimmicky treatment, then fixed his tmj which brought his jaw into normal alignment while simultaneously fixing his narrow palate
 
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he had pear head shape cuz over volumus jaw

even bruxism cucks have this and once they get botox they return to atleast somewhat normal

Wrong. It was from his temporomandibular joint dislocating and cleaving his jaw forward from out of the joint socket

He’s explained this in his earlier videos
 
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Yes retard you’re comparing his mse results to post agga face not his REAL pre treatment face.

Like as if you expect us to believe that he ascended when in reality he descended to the graveyard from a faulty gimmicky treatment, then fixed his tmj which brought his jaw into normal alignment while simultaneously fixing his narrow palate
I see you are running out of arguments sadly. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Newsflash dumbass, your cherry picked before photo was too after AGGA
1650464696694

as it comes from May 2019. He had AGGA in late 2018.
Picard facepalm


Got any more arguments? I see you are steaming mad. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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Wrong. It was from his temporomandibular joint dislocating and cleaving his jaw forward from out of the joint socket

He’s explained this in his earlier videos
Might be im just saying his jaw appears too big relatin to his cheekbones meanwhile in the after it looks more normal and not because he gained insane malar changes

but wouldnt having his jaw being in an overextended position make his jaw have more muscle mass? i think it would
 
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he had pear head shape cuz over volumus jaw

even bruxism cucks have this and once they get botox they return to atleast somewhat normal
Then remove the mandible
1650464956658


clearly a difference in the midfacial volume :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

What are you two circlejerking cucks even babbling about?
 
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I see you are running out of arguments sadly. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Newsflash dumbass, your cherry picked before photo was too after AGGA
View attachment 1642919
as it comes from May 2019. He had AGGA in late 2018.
View attachment 1642920

Got any more arguments? I see you are steaming mad. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Just because I called you a retard doesn’t mean I’m mad. I can’t consider a person that’s projecting his faulty logic as a equal in this debate.

Much like how if you were talking to your professor at school and he couldn’t get a simple concept across to you he would likely be holding back on calling you a retard too.

Anyways back to my point. The first video posted by jaw hacks was when he was already IN treatment. I’m gonna go very nice and slow so your smooth brain can finally comprehend this time.

36984DB8 2052 424F B239 445389283BE3


Obviously since this is POST AGGA it CANT Be held as a objective barometer for whether he improved from his ORIGINAL base or not.

The ONLY time I posted his face was to show how even compared to his post agga self, in the post MSE pics his alar base and lips width had massively disharmonized.

SINCE there are no actual videos of his actually pre ALL treatment, comparisons about him ascending or descending CANT be fairly made.

You brought up how his midface slightly expanded in a cropped pic. I replied back telling you that faces have to be looked in conjunction to how everything fits not one specific feature. This was not me saying that he looked good in his post agga face but that his nose and lips looked much better. Nuance.
 
Deleted member 16834

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Millie 💕
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Might be im just saying his jaw appears too big relatin to his cheekbones meanwhile in the after it looks more normal and not because he gained insane malar changes

but wouldnt having his jaw being in an overextended position make his jaw have more muscle mass? i think it would

He fixed his tmj in conjunction with the mse. Mse barely gave him any noticeable expansion.


Noticeable by normie onlooker standards (which includes women) that is
 
goat2x

goat2x

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Then remove the mandible
View attachment 1642921

clearly a difference in the midfacial volume :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

What are you two circlejerking cucks even babbling about?
Idk tbh im not disregarding the idea that he didnt get any cheekbone expansion im just saying its not significant and its not reliable

most ppl who practise it say that maybe you will get maybe you wont get and it most likely be assymetric

most ppl who got mse (including myself) say its shit, i havent noticed any significant change either
 
spark

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Just because I called you a retard doesn’t mean I’m mad. I can’t consider a person that’s projecting his faulty logic as a equal in this debate.

Much like how if you were talking to your professor at school and he couldn’t get a simple concept across to you he would likely be holding back on calling you a retard too.

Anyways back to my point. The first video posted by jaw hacks was when he was already IN treatment. I’m gonna go very nice and slow so your smooth brain can finally comprehend this time.

View attachment 1642924

Obviously since this is POST AGGA it CANT Be held as a objective barometer for whether he improved from his ORIGINAL base or not.

The ONLY time I posted his face was to show how even compared to his post agga self, in the post MSE pics his alar base and lips width had massively disharmonized.

SINCE there are no actual videos of his actually pre ALL treatment, comparisons about him ascending or descending CANT be fairly made.

You brought up how his midface slightly expanded in a cropped pic. I replied back telling you that faces have to be looked in conjunction to how everything fits not one specific feature. This was not me saying that he looked good in his post agga face but that his nose and lips looked much better. Nuance.
Another wall of text of nonsense. Keep backpedaling after getting thoroughly embarrassed in this thread. I went soft on you in the beginning just to probe where you were coming from. Now it's clear everything you utter on the topic is as good as good for nothing.
 
spark

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Idk tbh im not disregarding the idea that he didnt get any cheekbone expansion im just saying its not significant and its not reliable

most ppl who practise it say that maybe you will get maybe you wont get and it most likely be assymetric

most ppl who got mse (including myself) say its shit, i havent noticed any significant change either
Alright then I agree aesthetically the change from MSE is not significant.
 
Deleted member 16834

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Millie 💕
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Another wall of text of nonsense. Keep backpedaling after getting thoroughly embarrassed in this thread. I went soft on you in the beginning just to probe where you were coming from. Now it's clear everything you utter on the topic is as good as good for nothing.

“Your logic is faulty”
Says a guy ascended by comparing him to his post agga botched self not his ORIGINAL self

“Your backpedaling”
I’ve run out of rebuttals and got exposed point by point in a slow roast style fashion over every single point.


Seems like the only thing you were “probing” was your butthole and the nonsense that came out of it. Oh wait that was your mouth
 
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Millie 💕
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Idk tbh im not disregarding the idea that he didnt get any cheekbone expansion im just saying its not significant and its not reliable

most ppl who practise it say that maybe you will get maybe you wont get and it most likely be assymetric

most ppl who got mse (including myself) say its shit, i havent noticed any significant change either

Remember the retard you’re arguing is calling people (me and you) that have actually gotten mse retards while he himself is the one circlejerking over the appliance.

You can’t humble stupid. Just keep letting him embarrass himself like the projecting clown that he is.

As soon as clowns start projecting at you for their limited comprehension and then blame you for not making them understand something that is common sense, it’s time to move on
 
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spark

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“Your logic is faulty”
Says a guy ascended by comparing him to his post agga botched self not his ORIGINAL self
1) That is ok because the after pics were also post botched AGGA so my line of reasoning is completely consistent unlike you posting a guy that had skeletal augmentation with implants and aggressive fat grafting as evidence for MSE having a negative aesthetic impact on your face:
f3b541ec1505cb4a11c0fb4f01a0f00a.png


2) You too compared him to his post AGGA botched self without realizing it LOL claiming he had much better harmony before MSE.

“Your backpedaling”
I’ve run out of rebuttals and got exposed point by point in a slow roast style fashion over every single point.
You provided no rebuttals whatsoever. When asked about your source you said your own experience, when asked about details you refused to talk about them. When shown Moon saying MSE 2 doesn't put the stress on the molars the way MSE 1 did you started talking about AGGA. When I called you out on your claim that there is absolutely no aesthetic improvement and only a very minor breathing improvement you showed a face of a guy that had skeletal augmentation with implants and aggressive fat grafting as evidence. When I mentioned Ronald and edited out the rest of the face to take the focus away from his AGGA, bruxism as well as the crazy hairstyle he was rocking just to show the beneficial upper midfacial aesthetic result you said I needed to show the rest of his face to see how MSE destroyed his harmony. When I called you out on the cherry picked frames of your pics and posted his actually before after candids you said it doesn't count because the befores were post AGGA not even realizing your own cherry picked frame screenshots were post AGGA.

But yeah nice "point by point exposing slow roast" you have done here right dumbass? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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1) That is ok because the after pics were also post botched AGGA so my line of reasoning is completely consistent unlike you posting a guy that had skeletal augmentation with implants and aggressive fat grafting as evidence for MSE having a negative aesthetic impact on your face:
f3b541ec1505cb4a11c0fb4f01a0f00a.png


2) You too compared him to his post AGGA botched self without realizing it LOL claiming he had much better harmony before MSE.


You provided no rebuttals whatsoever. When asked about your source you said your own experience, when asked about details you refused to talk about them. When shown Moon saying MSE 2 doesn't put the stress on the molars the way MSE 1 did you started talking about AGGA. When I called you out on your claim that there is absolutely no aesthetic improvement and only a very minor breathing improvement you showed a face of a guy that had skeletal augmentation with implants and aggressive fat grafting as evidence. When I mentioned Ronald and edited out the rest of the face to take the focus away from his AGGA, bruxism as well as the crazy hairstyle he was rocking just to show the beneficial upper midfacial aesthetic result you said I needed to show the rest of his face to see how MSE destroyed his harmony. When I called you out on the cherry picked frames of your pics and posted his actually before after candids you said it doesn't count because the befores were post AGGA not even realizing your own cherry picked frame screenshots were post AGGA.

But yeah nice "point by point exposing slow roast" you have done here right monkey brain? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

1) Learn nuance. That example is a case report from Dr. Y highlighting what happens to a male face when the paranasal is lifted. It gives a youthful face lifting effect. It’s not masculine and it’s not ascending anyone. In fact such effect is actually highly desired in plastic surgery catered to women.

2) Nose and lips are the carriers of harmony. Subtle changes in either can severely deharmonize the face. I used that picture AFTER you posted the before and after where the before was POST AGGA.


> when asked about your sources
- dental student, post mse, have dealt with both newaz and ting for over two years. (all mentioned above but you have selective memory it seems

> when asked about details
- you asked whether my own molars were damaged and I responded telling you “let’s just say I’ve been in conversation with both ting and newaz and new things have come to light”. You being anal and not being able to read bw the lines and wanting SPECIFIC details is not my problem.

> moon said mse type 2 doesn’t put pressure on the molars
- u provided me with a IN HOUSE study and it’s not peer reviewed.
- Mse is performed mainly on kids in a much greater majority than it is performed on kids. Call Ting and Newaz for the statistics. Kids and adults have a great variance in malleability and suture morphology.

>I called you out that there is no aesthethics movement you showed a guy with fat grafts
- it’s called bringing nuance. If I want to show a affect in our case paranasal fullness that mse gives I can show a before and after to highlight the affect. I never said that was a mse result or was intellectually dishonest. I simply showed what paranasal hollowness and what paranasal fullness looked like to make you understand the great difference bw the two. And show you how one is not desired for male aesthetics.

>when I cropped out the head to only show the upper mid facial aesthetics result
- this is the problem with autistic cognitive dissonance ridden incels. You will jump leaps and bounds and stay stuck over one tiny fraction of a change and then have the audacity to call it aesthethic improvement when aesthetics look at everything else in CONJUCTION. Your argument is analogous to say those Down syndrome kids that hit themselves and have huge cheekbones somehow improved aesthetically from their before. And then crop the middle of their faces to prove “look he looks aesthetically better bc I can see more lateral expansion in his midface now”


>when I called you out on the cherry-picked frames
- Go to his YouTube channel. I used the FIRST frame from video where he wasn’t laying at the dentist. The videos after had him in a beanie and had him in good natural sunlight which I purposefully didn’t pick out of fairness. Then I compared that to the frame from his post mse where his lips were sealed.
-Again your problem here is that whatever you don’t understand you start to project.
 
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spark

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1) Learn nuance. That example is a case report from Dr. Y highlighting what happens to a male face when the paranasal is lifted. It gives a youthful face lifting effect. It’s not masculine and it’s not ascending anyone. In fact such effect is actually highly desired in plastic surgery catered to women.

2) Nose and lips are the carriers of harmony. Subtle changes in either can severely deharmonize the face. I used that picture AFTER you posted the before and after where the before was POST AGGA.


> when asked about your sources
- dental student, post mse, have dealt with both newaz and ting for over two years. (all mentioned above but you have selective memory it seems

> when asked about details
- you asked whether my own molars were damaged and I responded telling you “let’s just say I’ve been in conversation with both ting and newaz and new things have come to light”. You being anal and not being about to read bw the lines and wanting SPECIFIC details is not my problem.

> moon said mse type 2 doesn’t put pressure on the molars
- u provided me with a IN HOUSE study and it’s not peer reviewed.
- Mse is performed mainly on kids in a much greater majority than it is performed on kids. Call Ting and Newaz for the statistics. Kids and adults have a great variance in malleability and suture morphology.

>I called you out that there is no aesthethics movement you showed a guy with fat grafts
- it’s called bringing nuance. If I want to show a affect in our case paranasal fullness that mse gives I can show a before and after to highlight the affect. I never said that was a mse result or was intellectually dishonest. I simply showed what paranasal hollowness and what paranasal fullness looked like to understand the great difference bw the two

>when I cropped out the head to only show the upper mid facial aesthetics result
- this is the problem with autistic cognitive dissonance ridden incels. You will jump leaps and bounds and stay stuck over one tiny fraction of a change and then have the audacity to call it aesthethic improvement when aesthetics look at everything else in CONJUCTION. Your argument is analogous to say those Down syndrome kids that hit themselves and have huge cheekbones somehow improved aesthetically from their before. And then crop the middle of their faces to prove “look he looks aesthetically better bc I can see more lateral expansion in his midface now”


>when I called you out on the cherry-picked frames
- Go to his YouTube channel. I used the FIRST frame from video where he wasn’t laying at the dentist. The videos after had him in a beanie and had him in good natural sunlight which I purposefully didn’t pick out of fairness. Then I compared that to the frame from his post mse where his lips were sealed.
-Again your problem here is that whatever you don’t understand you start to project.
You have got issues bro. Imagine writing so much nonsense. At first I was legit interested in your prospective despite having my doubts only to learn hours in that I was arguing with a mentally deranged narcissist all along.
 
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You have got issues bro. Imagine writing so much nonsense. At first I was legit interested in your prospective despite having my doubts only to learn hours in that I was arguing with a mentally deranged narcissist all along.

The only issues are your incessant projections and me humbling you for being intellectually dishonest
 
AscendingHero

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Oh is that why every week there is a thread about “should I get mse or malar implants for more cheekbone width”

It’s a bunch of people without any direction hoping “smart” forum members will prescribe them new bone remodeling “natural” implant alternatives to turn them into chad. People are vain. That’s the Blackpill. Even during Invisalign treatment the first thing they ask you is what’s your primary motive. And first thing they say is “well I can promise I’ll get you a beautiful smile”

Look again at the jawhacks interview with vaughn and ting. “Alot of my viewers keep asking btw if this device can make the lateral cheekbones wider”. It’s highly disingenuous to say that people obsessed with becoming chad are ONLY looking for mild breathing improvement. Because majority of broke people on this forum will definitely choose mse if there was a scenario where someone told them with certainty that malar implants will make them chad???? The vast majority would forget about mse and jump at whatever new thing they’ve now been coddled into believing is the chad making secret recipe.

To retiterate: mse is cope for improving your looks. Go ahead if you want to spend it for mild breathing improvement (that which can also be with done with sarpe in a faster more predictable and less detrimental fashion)
I have to disagree son with the last paragraph
1) Learn nuance. That example is a case report from Dr. Y highlighting what happens to a male face when the paranasal is lifted. It gives a youthful face lifting effect. It’s not masculine and it’s not ascending anyone. In fact such effect is actually highly desired in plastic surgery catered to women.

2) Nose and lips are the carriers of harmony. Subtle changes in either can severely deharmonize the face. I used that picture AFTER you posted the before and after where the before was POST AGGA.


> when asked about your sources
- dental student, post mse, have dealt with both newaz and ting for over two years. (all mentioned above but you have selective memory it seems

> when asked about details
- you asked whether my own molars were damaged and I responded telling you “let’s just say I’ve been in conversation with both ting and newaz and new things have come to light”. You being anal and not being able to read bw the lines and wanting SPECIFIC details is not my problem.

> moon said mse type 2 doesn’t put pressure on the molars
- u provided me with a IN HOUSE study and it’s not peer reviewed.
- Mse is performed mainly on kids in a much greater majority than it is performed on kids. Call Ting and Newaz for the statistics. Kids and adults have a great variance in malleability and suture morphology.

>I called you out that there is no aesthethics movement you showed a guy with fat grafts
- it’s called bringing nuance. If I want to show a affect in our case paranasal fullness that mse gives I can show a before and after to highlight the affect. I never said that was a mse result or was intellectually dishonest. I simply showed what paranasal hollowness and what paranasal fullness looked like to make you understand the great difference bw the two. And show you how one is not desired for male aesthetics.

>when I cropped out the head to only show the upper mid facial aesthetics result
- this is the problem with autistic cognitive dissonance ridden incels. You will jump leaps and bounds and stay stuck over one tiny fraction of a change and then have the audacity to call it aesthethic improvement when aesthetics look at everything else in CONJUCTION. Your argument is analogous to say those Down syndrome kids that hit themselves and have huge cheekbones somehow improved aesthetically from their before. And then crop the middle of their faces to prove “look he looks aesthetically better bc I can see more lateral expansion in his midface now”


>when I called you out on the cherry-picked frames
- Go to his YouTube channel. I used the FIRST frame from video where he wasn’t laying at the dentist. The videos after had him in a beanie and had him in good natural sunlight which I purposefully didn’t pick out of fairness. Then I compared that to the frame from his post mse where his lips were sealed.
-Again your problem here is that whatever you don’t understand you start to project.
You've learned ffrom your lookism days all right

TLDR: Aesthetics is everything in conjunction + y'alls beef
 

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