I'm thinking about that - I'm still a teenager as well..I'd have to get something else for the lower as well though
Are you trying to achieve also forward growth or only palatal widening?
I need both. I know MSE won't give forward growth but I may as well do what I can.
Honestly, try to get as much expansion as possible, and use a facepuller alongside it for forward growth
That's what I was thinking but the ortho doesn't think the mandible will respond.
Get like 6-7mm if your mandible is already 5mm wider.
Yeah it's 3x that for the MSE+Braces...if I convince the ortho to do that much I would have to get MSE as well right..what's the price range on that?
Have you found an orthodontist who’s willing to do MSE yet? You should be worrying about this later. The prices should be the same even if you expand to 10 or 12mm, because no matter what you will have a 10 or 12mm expander. It’s just how much you can expand based on your biology and occlusion. Also, I wanna point out that the expansion doesn’t always go to 8,10, or 12mm, because everyone’s bones are different and the force can push more or less than the expected mm.
Yes, I have. We've already talked a ton about it and have appointments...but now I'm not so sure that I'd be satisfied with just 5mm and no facemask.
Ok good, bring up upper molar lingual torquing and lower molar buccal flaring. If he declined, ask for an alveolar bone lower arch expander for $250 extra. Why no facemask?
Ok, I will. They said no facemask because they don't think the mandible will respond.
I want to get 8-10mm of expansion but idk if I can get that much having it done for medical reasons. I extremely doubt I could get a facemask
It will when you have a CCW rotation of the maxilla. Bring up the force vector of the FM, tell them if you have it at -30° force vector, the posterior maxilla will pull downward and forward, and forces the anterior maxilla to be pulled counterclockwise.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Ok, I suppose I will attempt to convince them.It will when you have a CCW rotation of the maxilla. Bring up the force vector of the FM, tell them if you have it at -30° force vector, the posterior maxilla will pull downward and forward, and forces the anterior maxilla to be pulled counterclockwise.
Won Moon’s study about this:
“Post-MI-FM [−30°], simulating intermaxillary elastics to micro-implants, mainly translates the maxilla forward, with very slight upward tipping of the anterior region. Of all the simulations, Post-MI-FM [−30°] most closely resembles pure anterior protraction of the maxilla and would benefit class III patients with severe mid-facial deficiency. This suggests that a 30° vector for intermaxillary class III elastics between micro-implants is most effective in promoting the anterior growth of maxilla.”The efficacy of maxillary protraction protocols with the micro-implant-assisted rapid palatal expander (MARPE) and the novel N2 mini-implant—a finite element study
Maxillary protraction with the novel N2 mini-implant- and micro-implant-assisted rapid palatal expander (MARPE) can potentially provide significant skeletal effects without surgery, even in older patients where conventional facemask therapy has limited ...
Have you gotten an ENT’s consent to have you get MSE? Also have you watched Ronald’s video about this topic:
Still worth it doe,
looksmax.org
That is brutal, maybe get rid of your dental insurance lol. Then you can tell them you want it for both health and cosmetic.
That simulation also caused downward movement of the maxilla doeIt will when you have a CCW rotation of the maxilla. Bring up the force vector of the FM, tell them if you have it at -30° force vector, the posterior maxilla will pull downward and forward, and forces the anterior maxilla to be pulled counterclockwise.
Won Moon’s study about this:
“Post-MI-FM [−30°], simulating intermaxillary elastics to micro-implants, mainly translates the maxilla forward, with very slight upward tipping of the anterior region. Of all the simulations, Post-MI-FM [−30°] most closely resembles pure anterior protraction of the maxilla and would benefit class III patients with severe mid-facial deficiency. This suggests that a 30° vector for intermaxillary class III elastics between micro-implants is most effective in promoting the anterior growth of maxilla.”The efficacy of maxillary protraction protocols with the micro-implant-assisted rapid palatal expander (MARPE) and the novel N2 mini-implant—a finite element study
Maxillary protraction with the novel N2 mini-implant- and micro-implant-assisted rapid palatal expander (MARPE) can potentially provide significant skeletal effects without surgery, even in older patients where conventional facemask therapy has limited ...
Which one? They simulated many force vectors and the MARPE positions on the maxilla.
For that on you have to pull +30 degree angle from in between the roots of the canine and first premolar
Bro u are autistic, we are talking about the mandible right now
Yes. But MSE is on the back of the maxilla, so we must pull downward
Still no answers
What do you need to know? How the mandible follows? The mandible auto rotates
The mandible wont follow, that was already proven
Show me where it was proven.
Ive seen a lot of threads explaining it @retard seems to know about this
Nigga u are slow? we are talking about the mandible expanding sagitally not transversely. The mandible can’t expand transversely because there is no suture. Jesus you are autistic
Oh well am not very knowledgeable tbh
If you are talking about jaws and bite, then yes MSDO or IMDO. If we are talking bite only then we have many options
Still causes downward movement doe, when i get MSE I might also wear a facepuller that pulls from the same place as Simulation F with the same angle
Mse is a type of marpe. They’re not surgeries, MSE is better because it provides a parallel split
But can you do the force thing at a given direction with MSE?
It’s not downward, it’s just very slight upward movement of the anterior maxilla, which sucks. But it is what it is tbh.
Yes, cost depends on the orthodontist usually around 5k-15k for mse+braces+retainers
FUCK, gonna have to wageslave till then, thanks for the help bro
Edit: read this: https://looksmax.org/threads/the-ac...lar-widening-from-maxillary-expansion.147971/ .. expand as *far as you can*
So I’ll reference this when trying to convince ortho? Anything else u think I should include? If they still say no I guess I’ll just remain with them and try getting as much expansion as possible.It will when you have a CCW rotation of the maxilla. Bring up the force vector of the FM, tell them if you have it at -30° force vector, the posterior maxilla will pull downward and forward, and forces the anterior maxilla to be pulled counterclockwise.
Won Moon’s study about this:
“Post-MI-FM [−30°], simulating intermaxillary elastics to micro-implants, mainly translates the maxilla forward, with very slight upward tipping of the anterior region. Of all the simulations, Post-MI-FM [−30°] most closely resembles pure anterior protraction of the maxilla and would benefit class III patients with severe mid-facial deficiency. This suggests that a 30° vector for intermaxillary class III elastics between micro-implants is most effective in promoting the anterior growth of maxilla.”The efficacy of maxillary protraction protocols with the micro-implant-assisted rapid palatal expander (MARPE) and the novel N2 mini-implant—a finite element study
Maxillary protraction with the novel N2 mini-implant- and micro-implant-assisted rapid palatal expander (MARPE) can potentially provide significant skeletal effects without surgery, even in older patients where conventional facemask therapy has limited ...
Just try that, yes.
