MSE is finally here. Process will begin sooner than later

[RecessedMaxillacel]

It’s getting serious now y’all, MSE will be gettin installed about next week or so. My inhib is gettin more negative by the day.

 

[Deleted member 4430]

biomaterials korea

 

[maxmendietta]

good. make sure u drill deep enough so u expand your brain along your maxilla.

 

[Deleted member 6217]

goodluck

 

[Mongrelcel]

Hyped.
However @retard appears to be dead so idk what to think of self installing now

 

[Mongrelcel]

He didn't even give one update and stopped posting shortly (just a few days) after. I'm unironically seriously concerned.

 

[lifestyle21873]

He didn't even give one update and stopped posting shortly (just a few days) after. I'm unironically seriously concerned.

Who ?

 

[Mongrelcel]

Who ?

@retard

 

[RecessedMaxillacel]

He didn't even give one update and stopped posting shortly (just a few days) after. I'm unironically seriously concerned.

Prolly too busy ascending with mse rn

 

[Mongrelcel]

Prolly too busy ascending with mse rn

Nah, i'm sure he'd document all of it for the rest of us. He even made the self-install mse guide post. Something must have happened in his life to stop posting so suddenly

 

[bossman]

He didn't even give one update and stopped posting shortly (just a few days) after. I'm unironically seriously concerned.

dw he's alive i talked with him just today

 

[RecessedMaxillacel]

I’m creating a full on documentation with this too but I’m not positing it until it’s completely done so that’s prolly why, don’t have anything to really post about atm except jus random shit. Kinda like what I’m doin lol

 

[Mongrelcel]

dw he's alive i talked with him just today

glad to hear that. Did he quit the forum all together or what? Why so suddenly?

 

[bossman]

glad to hear that. Did he quit the forum all together or what? Why so suddenly?

no idea, he seems normal from what i can tell, i don't know about the halt in his forum activity

 

[Mongrelcel]

I’m creating a full on documentation with this too but I’m not positing it until it’s completely done so that’s prolly why, don’t have anything to really post about atm except jus random shit. Kinda like what I’m doin lol

I assume you are planning on facepulling with the MSE no? Recently @Sergio-OMS mentioned in a thread that its best to decouple the expansion form the protrusion. He didn't however elaborate on why.
What angle will you be using? What do you think of molar tilt?

 

[RecessedMaxillacel]

I assume you are planning on facepulling with the MSE no? Recently @Sergio-OMS mentioned in a thread that its best to decouple the expansion form the protrusion. He didn't however elaborate on why.
What angle will you be using? What do you think of molar tilt?

Yeah I’m gonna install hooks on the molar bands of the appliance. I might do facepulling after I finish my expansion with mse. I’m probably going to pull at like 30. I’m not exactly picky at the exact angle or whatever, Im obviously not gonna put like down, straight forward, or straight up lol. I’ll jus set it at a spot where I get enough forward pull & upward pull. Molar tilt, not a concern to me tbh. Molars won’t be gettin affected really. Mse is jus attached to them with molar bands to make sure I have proper installation alignment, as well as a spot to install a hook. Regardless, even if so, it’s nothing braces wouldn’t be able to fix afterwards lol

 

[RichardwillImprove]

Bruh u got this shit man just don’t fuck up of gg.

 

[Mongrelcel]

Molars won’t be gettin affected really

I think they will tbh. My theory is that the closer to zero is the angle of pulling, the more will molars be getting affected. The higher angle of pulling, the more force on molars - if the mse is fixed on them too. That's just my theory tho.

Have you read the study about facepulling simulation by won moon? You want to pull like simulation F - +30 degrees? Won moon implied its not possible tho.

 

[000]

View attachment 681033
It’s getting serious now y’all, MSE will be gettin installed about next week or so. My inhib is gettin more negative by the day.

People are actually self installing this shit jfl

 

[Deleted member 2748]

someone will die from this eventually, guaranteed

 

[RecessedMaxillacel]

someone will die from this eventually, guaranteed

If you’re autistic af then yeah but it’s fairly simple to be quite honest

 

[Deleted member 5634]

Where did you bought it op? Can you pm a link to check the price?

 

[RecessedMaxillacel]

Where did you bought it op? Can you pm a link to check the price?

MSE Type-2 Starter Kit - 12mm

Developed by Dr. Won Moon, the MSE is a version of the Microimplant Assisted Rapid Palatal Expander (MARPE). The MSE is capable of producing dramatic maxillary skeletal expansion. The MSE uses 4 TADs for fixation to the palate and a wrench for activ

www.greatlakesdentaltech.com

 

[Timelessbrah]

Expanding your palate won't change jack shit.

 

[KDA Player]

Congratz it says you won the moon.

 

[retard]

Nah, i'm sure he'd document all of it for the rest of us. He even made the self-install mse guide post. Something must have happened in his life to stop posting so suddenly

nah I’m alive I have just been busy, I took it out and reinstalled it for a better placement a few days ago lol

 

[retard]

good luck bro, make sure you get molar bands properly fitted, screw the screws in perpendicular to the palate/upright, and do not screw in too deeply (you will feel a lot of pain, when you reach this point)

 

[RecessedMaxillacel]

good luck bro, make sure you get molar bands properly fitted, screw the screws in perpendicular to the palate/upright, and do not screw in too deeply (you will feel a lot of pain, when you reach this point)

Will do man, I shouldn’t be able to go to deep with the screws anyways cuz my palate is so deep that the mse won’t sit completely flush it’s kinda off it by about a couple mm’s cuz the sides on the mse hits the sides of my palate & screwing it flush would push hard as fuck into the sides, if you can understand what I’m sayin. If not I’ll post a pic so you can see. But yeah shouldn’t have any problem with going too deep with the screws.

 

[SPFromNY914]

View attachment 681033
It’s getting serious now y’all, MSE will be gettin installed about next week or so. My inhib is gettin more negative by the day.

Miring, Happy for you bro

 

[Shebe]

drill into your skull to cause a 3mm gap between your front teeth theory

 

[Mongrelcel]

@RecessedMaxillacel GTFIH

What you said about the molars didnt let me sleep so I dug up a study that talks about this:

Comparison of two maxillary protraction protocols: tooth-borne versus bone-anchored protraction facemask treatment

Protraction facemask has been advocated for treatment of class III malocclusion with maxillary deficiency. Studies using tooth-borne rapid palatal expansion (RPE) appliance as anchorage have experienced side effects such as forward movement of the maxillary ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I recommend you read all of it since I can barely understand shit, its full of medical terms - we can work to translate it to normal human language and then make a post to about it.

Its about molar movement using facemask therapy using 2 groups of KIDS (12 yo) - one group is using tooth-borne appliances and the other is using bone-anchored ones.

"Significant and greater change in molar relationship was found in the tooth-borne group (2.7 mm) compared to the bone-anchored group (1.1 mm, p < .05). This was contributed by similar forward movement of the maxilla and backward movement of the mandible in both groups, but greater differential movement of the maxillary and mandibular molars was found in the tooth-borne protraction facemask group. The mean forward movement of maxillary molars was similar for the tooth-borne (0.6 mm) and bone-anchored protraction facemask groups (0.5 mm)."

"In this study, the maxilla moved forward an average of 1.5 mm, or 0.7 mm after subtracting changes due to growth, with both the tooth-borne and bone-anchored protraction facemask treatment."
Brutal suicide fuel - just 1.5 mm in prepubescent kids? How much will we get then?

"The maxillary molars were found to move forward an average of 0.6 mm in the bone-anchored groups despite the anchorage provided by the two mini-implants."
Wow, now take into consideration that kids skeletal bone is much weaker than adult, so they probably used way less force than you will.

Now also take into consideration that they pulled at a much much lower angle than you are planning to - kids in the study experienced clockwise rotation - "clockwise rotation of the mandible in the bone-anchored group (SNL–ML 0.7° for the bone-anchored group vs. SNL–ML 2.9° for the tooth-borne group, p < .05)."

"In addition, there is more downward movement of the maxillary incisors in the bone-anchored group compared to the tooth-borne group that helps to maintain the overbite in the bone-anchored group."

I'm going to the gym now, we can theorize later in the evening

@retard what do you think?

 

[RecessedMaxillacel]

@RecessedMaxillacel GTFIH

What you said about the molars didnt let me sleep so I dug up a study that talks about this:

Comparison of two maxillary protraction protocols: tooth-borne versus bone-anchored protraction facemask treatment

Protraction facemask has been advocated for treatment of class III malocclusion with maxillary deficiency. Studies using tooth-borne rapid palatal expansion (RPE) appliance as anchorage have experienced side effects such as forward movement of the maxillary ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I recommend you read all of it since I can barely understand shit, its full of medical terms - we can work to translate it to normal human language and then make a post to about it.

Its about molar movement using facemask therapy using 2 groups of KIDS (12 yo) - one group is using tooth-borne appliances and the other is using bone-anchored ones.

"Significant and greater change in molar relationship was found in the tooth-borne group (2.7 mm) compared to the bone-anchored group (1.1 mm, p < .05). This was contributed by similar forward movement of the maxilla and backward movement of the mandible in both groups, but greater differential movement of the maxillary and mandibular molars was found in the tooth-borne protraction facemask group. The mean forward movement of maxillary molars was similar for the tooth-borne (0.6 mm) and bone-anchored protraction facemask groups (0.5 mm)."

"In this study, the maxilla moved forward an average of 1.5 mm, or 0.7 mm after subtracting changes due to growth, with both the tooth-borne and bone-anchored protraction facemask treatment."
Brutal suicide fuel - just 1.5 mm in prepubescent kids? How much will we get then?

"The maxillary molars were found to move forward an average of 0.6 mm in the bone-anchored groups despite the anchorage provided by the two mini-implants."
Wow, now take into consideration that kids skeletal bone is much weaker than adult, so they probably used way less force than you will.

Now also take into consideration that they pulled at a much much lower angle than you are planning to - kids in the study experienced clockwise rotation - "clockwise rotation of the mandible in the bone-anchored group (SNL–ML 0.7° for the bone-anchored group vs. SNL–ML 2.9° for the tooth-borne group, p < .05)."

"In addition, there is more downward movement of the maxillary incisors in the bone-anchored group compared to the tooth-borne group that helps to maintain the overbite in the bone-anchored group."

I'm going to the gym now, we can theorize later in the evening

@retard what do you think?

Good info man, skimmed over pretty quick tho. Will read it more in depth sometime tomorrow & see exactly what it’s explaining.

 

[JizzFarmer]

Wait are people actually self-installing mse? JFL

 

[RichardwillImprove]

Wait are people actually self-installing mse? JFL

Obviously

 

[RichardwillImprove]

nah I’m alive I have just been busy, I took it out and reinstalled it for a better placement a few days ago lol

How much forward movement do u think you'll be able to achieve and what angle are u pulling at.

 

[retard]

@RecessedMaxillacel GTFIH

What you said about the molars didnt let me sleep so I dug up a study that talks about this:

Comparison of two maxillary protraction protocols: tooth-borne versus bone-anchored protraction facemask treatment

Protraction facemask has been advocated for treatment of class III malocclusion with maxillary deficiency. Studies using tooth-borne rapid palatal expansion (RPE) appliance as anchorage have experienced side effects such as forward movement of the maxillary ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I recommend you read all of it since I can barely understand shit, its full of medical terms - we can work to translate it to normal human language and then make a post to about it.

Its about molar movement using facemask therapy using 2 groups of KIDS (12 yo) - one group is using tooth-borne appliances and the other is using bone-anchored ones.

"Significant and greater change in molar relationship was found in the tooth-borne group (2.7 mm) compared to the bone-anchored group (1.1 mm, p < .05). This was contributed by similar forward movement of the maxilla and backward movement of the mandible in both groups, but greater differential movement of the maxillary and mandibular molars was found in the tooth-borne protraction facemask group. The mean forward movement of maxillary molars was similar for the tooth-borne (0.6 mm) and bone-anchored protraction facemask groups (0.5 mm)."

"In this study, the maxilla moved forward an average of 1.5 mm, or 0.7 mm after subtracting changes due to growth, with both the tooth-borne and bone-anchored protraction facemask treatment."
Brutal suicide fuel - just 1.5 mm in prepubescent kids? How much will we get then?

"The maxillary molars were found to move forward an average of 0.6 mm in the bone-anchored groups despite the anchorage provided by the two mini-implants."
Wow, now take into consideration that kids skeletal bone is much weaker than adult, so they probably used way less force than you will.

Now also take into consideration that they pulled at a much much lower angle than you are planning to - kids in the study experienced clockwise rotation - "clockwise rotation of the mandible in the bone-anchored group (SNL–ML 0.7° for the bone-anchored group vs. SNL–ML 2.9° for the tooth-borne group, p < .05)."

"In addition, there is more downward movement of the maxillary incisors in the bone-anchored group compared to the tooth-borne group that helps to maintain the overbite in the bone-anchored group."

I'm going to the gym now, we can theorize later in the evening

@retard what do you think?

The Study is really bad

they did two tooth borne protractions, and therefor got extremely similar results, just because the molar bands are attached to teeth going that attach to a bone borne expander does not mean any of the force ACTUALLY GOES to the implant in the bone (mse with molar bands is tooth borne too, this is why I will attach rubber bands directly to the expander and pull through the diastema, assuming nothing goes bad you could expect nearly 2x the protraction

whenever a study is done with BAMP, maxillary gains are always significantly higher than a tooth borne protocol even with expansion to further weaken the sutures

 

[Mongrelcel]

The Study is really bad

they did two tooth borne protractions, and therefor got extremely similar results, just because the molar bands are attached to teeth going that attach to a bone borne expander does not mean any of the force ACTUALLY GOES to the implant in the bone (mse with molar bands is tooth borne too, this is why I will attach rubber bands directly to the expander and pull through the diastema, assuming nothing goes bad you could expect nearly 2x the protraction

whenever a study is done with BAMP, maxillary gains are always significantly higher than a tooth borne protocol even with expansion to further weaken the sutures

What do you think about tooth/molar movement while facepulling with MSE in general?
My theory is that the higher the angle of pulling, the more force will be on the molars, and therefore if you do something like +30 or +15, you can expect movement or tilt. thoughts?

Also whats yoour opinion on pulling with N2 implant and pulling with MSE?
@Sergio-OMS also said that it's best to separate the expansion from protraction if you want to pull with MSE. Do you know why?

 

[retard]

What do you think about tooth/molar movement while facepulling with MSE in general?
My theory is that the higher the angle of pulling, the more force will be on the molars, and therefore if you do something like +30 or +15, you can expect movement or tilt. thoughts?

Also whats yoour opinion on pulling with N2 implant and pulling with MSE?
@Sergio-OMS also said that it's best to separate the expansion from protraction if you want to pull with MSE. Do you know why?

the more upward you pull = more you intrude the molar the band is attached to
the more you pull downward = the more you extrude it

the closer the angle to 0 = the more you will shift the molar forward (will be negligible though)