MSE soon, do I combine it with hgh? (20yo)

[it_will_begin]

Finally i'm doing a 5mm MARPE in september (i know its not that much but its the limit), I would like someone high iq to tell me if:

Does it make sense to be on HGH during treatment?
and if so, dose? and for how long? only the expansion phase (1-2 months), or even during the stabilizazion phase (8-10)?

does it improve the effect on the cheekbones?

or is actually counterproductive because it stiffens the suture, risking the MARPE not working?

 

[KYS RETARD COPERS]

5 mm is nothing, do 1 cm

 

[LEFORT17]

Finally i'm doing a 5mm MARPE in september (i know its not that much but its the limit), I would like someone high iq to tell me if:

Does it make sense to be on HGH during treatment?
and if so, dose? and for how long? only the expansion phase (1-2 months), or even during the stabilizazion phase (8-10)?

does it improve the effect on the cheekbones?

or is actually counterproductive because it stiffens the suture, risking the MARPE not working?

ur doing it in prep for djs?

 

[it_will_begin]

ur doing it in prep for djs?

yeah broo

 

[Deleted member 137749]

5 mm is nothing, do 1 cm

1 cm is a guaranteed botch

 

[wordengage]

This is what I got told by a doctor when I emailed him asking whether I should use HGH for jaw surgery.

Nonetheless, I'd suggest BCP-157 instead of HGH for repair. It's proven to improve the speed of bone and muscle healing.

 

[it_will_begin]

View attachment 3988291


This is what I got told by a doctor when I emailed him asking whether I should use HGH for jaw surgery.

Nonetheless, I'd suggest BCP-157 instead of HGH for repair. It's proven to improve the speed of bone and muscle healing.

thank you bro, very bluepilled answer but i got the point...

btw my goal is extra zygomatic bones gains, bone healing is secondary,

is BCP-157 gonna stimulate osteoblast in the midface area under mechanical tension, like hgh?

 

[KYS RETARD COPERS]

1 cm is a guaranteed botch

But the main esthetic benefit of MSE is wider zygos, and 5 mm will do almost nothing for your zygos

One guy did 2 cm (crazy ik) and it was definitely a botch but his zygos stuck out afterward.

 

[KYS RETARD COPERS]

View attachment 3988291


This is what I got told by a doctor when I emailed him asking whether I should use HGH for jaw surgery.

Nonetheless, I'd suggest BCP-157 instead of HGH for repair. It's proven to improve the speed of bone and muscle healing.

Doctors can't advise anything that they can't advise. Doesn't mean it doesn't work.

 

[it_will_begin]

Doctors can't advise anything that they can't advise. Doesn't mean it doesn't work.

I'll ask dr Cantarella what's the max limit

 

[smallgromp123]

Hey, I did 1cm of expansion. I did not get botched. I would say the sweet spot (for me personally) was 6-8mm. I did 10mm (1cm) and naturally relapsed back to 8-9, so I'm fine.

But this is my own experience, I don't know what you personally need, functionally or aesthetically. I had a really rough crossbite.

 

[Deleted member 137749]

Hey, I did 1cm of expansion. I did not get botched. I would say the sweet spot (for me personally) was 6-8mm. I did 10mm (1cm) and naturally relapsed back to 8-9, so I'm fine.

But this is my own experience, I don't know what you personally need, functionally or aesthetically. I had a really rough crossbite.

Can you send before and after ? Pm is fine if you want

 

[it_will_begin]

Hey, I did 1cm of expansion. I did not get botched. I would say the sweet spot (for me personally) was 6-8mm. I did 10mm (1cm) and naturally relapsed back to 8-9, so I'm fine.

But this is my own experience, I don't know what you personally need, functionally or aesthetically. I had a really rough crossbite.

thats interesting, wich was your starting IMW? do u have a before & after? (Pm if u prefer)

 

[smallgromp123]

It was 38mm, but the top jaw was 10mm narrower than my bottom. It's still not wide enough even after all that expansion, I'm planning to get a HLF1, possibly segmental, that will set me at 50-52mm. I can't share before and afters. But I can say it gave me about +1 PSL. Definitely an improvement.

 

[zaebalsya]

that will set me at 50-52mm

wow
yea ur upper palate need to be 3-5mm wider than ur lower one
do u have 48mm lower palate imw right ? thats kinda rare

 

[smallgromp123]

wow
yea ur upper palate need to be 3-5mm wider than ur lower one
do u have 48mm lower palate imw right ? thats kinda rare

Yeah, it's 48mm. Didn't know it was rare (feelsgood). I guess the only thing that carried my growth was fermented dairy, I believe. Never was too big on meat + I've been mouth breathing all my life until 21.

 

[Renophobeadoobe]

Hey, I did 1cm of expansion. I did not get botched. I would say the sweet spot (for me personally) was 6-8mm. I did 10mm (1cm) and naturally relapsed back to 8-9, so I'm fine.

But this is my own experience, I don't know what you personally need, functionally or aesthetically. I had a really rough crossbite.

Did this worsen any asymmetries? I'm at 33 IMW and need to do 10 MM too XD

 

[smallgromp123]

Did this worsen any asymmetries? I'm at 33 IMW and need to do 10 MM too XD

Hey bro, unfortunately yes, I would say it made my cant worse. However, my facial width got better harmony as it gave me extra bizygo width on the side that needed it. As for other features, nothing that would be noticeable. Also, I knew it would make the cant worse, but it was fine for me as I had planned MSE+Djs from the beginning, so it did not worry me all that much.

 

[moltisantichincel]

if

Hey bro, unfortunately yes, I would say it made my cant worse. However, my facial width got better harmony as it gave me extra bizygo width on the side that needed it. As for other features, nothing that would be noticeable. Also, I knew it would make the cant worse, but it was fine for me as I had planned MSE+Djs from the beginning, so it did not worry me all that much.

djs will fix asymmetry definately, I am also doing expansion and djs, but just like op I am only expanding 5mm I don't need anything else, I am also getting inframalrs placed during bimax so any assymetry isn't a issue

 

[william.]

no u produce more naturally anyways

 

[Renophobeadoobe]

Hey bro, unfortunately yes, I would say it made my cant worse. However, my facial width got better harmony as it gave me extra bizygo width on the side that needed it. As for other features, nothing that would be noticeable. Also, I knew it would make the cant worse, but it was fine for me as I had planned MSE+Djs from the beginning, so it did not worry me all that much.

Did placement to better asymmetries get discussed prior?

 

[smallgromp123]

Did placement to better asymmetries get discussed prior?

Yes, even during expansion my surgeon was observing the changes, but it went exactly how we planned it. If you're asymmetric to begin with, you should be ready for some kind of worsening of it. It might not happen, but you should be ready for it mentally. The device just pushes what you give it laterally, along your bite plane vector, if he has uneven sides to push out, it will do so.

But in my case for example, I had a crossbite with heavy compensation, my right side of the face as a whole was intruded and deficient. The device pushed my right side out more, and it was setup that way to do so. Yes, it worsened my cant but if you think about it, that's what it should have done.

Imo, expanding in moderation is what matters, I highly doubt someone needs more than 8mms of expansion, and before the 9-10mm mark, your face will change for the better in most cases.

Do your own research tho

 

[Renophobeadoobe]

Yes, even during expansion my surgeon was observing the changes, but it went exactly how we planned it. If you're asymmetric to begin with, you should be ready for some kind of worsening of it. It might not happen, but you should be ready for it mentally. The device just pushes what you give it laterally, along your bite plane vector, if he has uneven sides to push out, it will do so.

But in my case for example, I had a crossbite with heavy compensation, my right side of the face as a whole was intruded and deficient. The device pushed my right side out more, and it was setup that way to do so. Yes, it worsened my cant but if you think about it, that's what it should have done.

Imo, expanding in moderation is what matters, I highly doubt someone needs more than 8mms of expansion, and before the 9-10mm mark, your face will change for the better in most cases.

Do your own research tho

Same situation here, my whole left side is intruded and deficient lol. have a functional shift perma going to the right too.

I understand though, I was thinking if there was vertical orbital/cheekbone disparity it would be a easier fix. I for some reason didn't think about how the device chooses what side it wants to expand more.

Can't you place it closer to the side that needs more expansion though? Did you go slow too?

 

[smallgromp123]

Same situation here, my whole left side is intruded and deficient lol. have a functional shift perma going to the right too.

I understand though, I was thinking if there was vertical orbital/cheekbone disparity it would be a easier fix. I for some reason didn't think about how the device chooses what side it wants to expand more.

Can't you place it closer to the side that needs more expansion though? Did you go slow too?

Doubt it, as it would be hard to account for rotational forces during expansion. When I took a look at my expander, on one side it had thicker legs, bigger screws and on the other they were thinner. In other words, it was anchored to the stronger, more developed and stable (left) side of my maxilla, and it was pushing out the weaker (right) side which needed expansion.

Say you're in the place of the expander, you have to imagine you in a corridor, on one side there is a door, on the other side there is a wall, so you use your legs to anchor yourself to the stronger side and push the door open. Hope I explained it okay

Also, that does not mean my stronger side got 0 expansion, just a smaller amount, I would say 2-4mms

(but this was my personal experience, your expander might be different)

 

[zaebalsya]

retard, 9.25mm rn wanna hit 12mm and i had sarpe which is lot more effective,

What noticeable changes?
Is your midface wider? Is your breathing better? Has your nose widened? How long after expansion stops will you get braces?
What about forward growth?

Some guy did around 16mm expansion with SARPE and he went from 3 class to 1 class as I can see

What do you think about wearing a face mask with SARPE? Does it make sense?
Isn't it dangerous because you had the lefort 1 cut to get SARPE and then you pull down your upper jaw with a face mask so

 

[iamgoingtoascend]

Wait im confused, why would you do MSE if your getting jaw surgery? Cant you just get a segmental lefort 1 and widen the palate during the djs?

 

[smallgromp123]

Wait im confused, why would you do MSE if your getting jaw surgery? Cant you just get a segmental lefort 1 and widen the palate during the djs?

Segmented Le fort is less stable. MSE is guaranteed to give you stable bone. Especially if you need +8mms.

Also if you're struggling with nose breathing, MSE will sort that, while segmented le fort does not always make your nasal breathing better.

Additionally, MSE gives facial width and lateral cheekbone projection, while segmented lf1 does not.

That's why the best route for crossbitecels is usually MSE+Ortho and then DJs

but this is my opinion, you do your own research

 

[iamgoingtoascend]

Segmented Le fort is less stable. MSE is guaranteed to give you stable bone. Especially if you need +8mms.

Also if you're struggling with nose breathing, MSE will sort that, while segmented le fort does not always make your nasal breathing better.

Additionally, MSE gives facial width and lateral cheekbone projection, while segmented lf1 does not.

That's why the best route for crossbitecels is usually MSE+Ortho and then DJs

but this is my opinion, you do your own research

got you, but damn that really sucks though, time wise. How much longer is the pre surgical orthodontic period with a palate expander?

 

[smallgromp123]

got you, but damn that really sucks though, time wise. How much longer is the pre surgical orthodontic period with a palate expander?

case dependent, average I would say 8 months - 1 year, but realistically this is something you would not want to rush.

 

[it_will_begin]

Segmented Le fort is less stable. MSE is guaranteed to give you stable bone. Especially if you need +8mms.

Also if you're struggling with nose breathing, MSE will sort that, while segmented le fort does not always make your nasal breathing better.

Additionally, MSE gives facial width and lateral cheekbone projection, while segmented lf1 does not.

That's why the best route for crossbitecels is usually MSE+Ortho and then DJs

but this is my opinion, you do your own research

that's exactly what i wanted to say, thanks

(i've done 6mm sutural expansion, 9mm mechanical)