MSE

[Mr robot]

Okay so I’ve got a 38mm palate and have previously had braces, my cheekbones are flat, I have bad eye support and a recessed maxilla , realistically if I were to get an mse and possibly a facemask if it’s available how much changes would I be expecting to see, and if I was taking exogenous hormones along with it( test + hgh) could it accelerate results or make them more prominent.

 

[Lenko]

No test or hgh - pure bone movement should suffice. Very important to stop any downward movement of the maxilla early on if u are prone to it. Just expand laterally 6 - 8mm, rock a facemask at a upward 30 - 40 degree angle and ur infras should get better aswell as ur zygos, less upper eyelid exposure and generally a more masculine eye area.
If u do it right ur mandible will also engage in CCW rotation and ur pogonium will shift a few mm forwards .

( now gimme rep for this high iq answer )

 

[Mr robot]

I have good infras surprisingly, I think my upper maxilla is far more developed in comparison to my lower maxilla as I got braces and tension bands at a young age which pulled my maxilla backwards to fix my overbite, and then I got teeth removed so my palate is narrow now, everyone in my family has a wide maxilla, braces just cooked me.

 

[william.]

No test or hgh - pure bone movement should suffice. Very important to stop any downward movement of the maxilla early on if u are prone to it. Just expand laterally 6 - 8mm, rock a facemask at a upward 30 - 40 degree angle and ur infras should get better aswell as ur zygos, less upper eyelid exposure and generally a more masculine eye area.
If u do it right ur mandible will also engage in CCW rotation and ur pogonium will shift a few mm forwards .

( now gimme rep for this high iq answer )

cope after the age of 12

 

[Mr robot]

cope after the age of 12

Look at jaw hacks? This statement is ridiculous the maxilla in unlike any other facial bone it can be split at pretty much any age with good execution.

 

[Lenko]

cope after the age of 12

Might be u being uneducated - likely, or just a copecel. Custom MARPEs are in some cases superior than Lefort surgeries

 

[william.]

Might be u being uneducated - likely, or just a copecel. Custom MARPEs are in some cases superior than Lefort surgeries

I was obviously referring to the facemask retard. Show me one before and after.

and no marpe is not better than lefort, they are for different use cases

 

[Mr robot]

I was obviously referring to the facemask retard. Show me one before and after.

and no marpe is not better than lefort, they are for different use cases

once MSE splits the suture, a facemask can absolutely pull the whole maxilla forward 2–5 mm. Multiple CBCT studies on 17–24-year-olds prove it, stop commenting on things you have no idea about, and yes I agree a lefort is obviosuly more effective than a face-mask but carries significantly more risks

 

[william.]

once MSE splits the suture, a facemask can absolutely pull the whole maxilla forward 2–5 mm. Multiple CBCT studies on 17–24-year-olds prove it, stop commenting on things you have no idea about, and yes I agree a lefort is obviosuly more effective than a face-mask but carries significantly more risks

send me a real life example

 

[Lenko]

send me a real life example

custom marpe + facemask

 

[william.]

custom marpe + facemask View attachment 4342785

front? and proof?

 

[Lenko]

front? and proof?

u lost ... just lick ur wounds to larp another day

 

[william.]

u lost ... just lick ur wounds to larp another day

larp? what?

 

[moltisantichincel]

once MSE splits the suture, a facemask can absolutely pull the whole maxilla forward 2–5 mm. Multiple CBCT studies on 17–24-year-olds prove it, stop commenting on things you have no idea about, and yes I agree a lefort is obviosuly more effective than a face-mask but carries significantly more risks

How w does a lefort carry more risks? Complete opposite, a face mask is too unpredictable and also extremely inconvenient

 

[Lenko]

How w does a lefort carry more risks? Complete opposite, a face mask is too unpredictable and also extremely inconvenient

wouldn't call a facemask too unpredictable, if ur ortho is doing CBCT x1 a week and measures progress effectively he catches variations from the plan early and usually is able to reverse and readjust accordingly - also a pure lefort 1 is super limited with expansion cause u can only increase the maxilla so much before ur hitting ur zygomatics so MARPE gives more potential but ofc other risks

 

[Lenko]

upward 30 - 40 degree

to shed more light, this is the consensus but there are ortho's who believe in adult patients a slight downward vector might help with potential clockwise rotation of the maxilla and mandible but this is speculation for now, no definitive clinical studies to support this

 

[moltisantichincel]

wouldn't call a facemask too unpredictable, if ur ortho is doing CBCT x1 a week and measures progress effectively he catches variations from the plan early and usually is able to reverse and readjust accordingly - also a pure lefort 1 is super limited with expansion cause u can only increase the maxilla so much before ur hitting ur zygomatics so MARPE gives more potential but ofc other risks

still a lefort 1 is more predictable, and you get more return on investment face mask is still viable tho dont get me wrong. Its just that it doesn’t compare to the amount of things you can do in one procedure (lefort bsso genio and implants) im saying because if you need your maxilla to be fixed and your going to go under anesthetists you might as well fix everything else. Nobody is just going to do lefort 1 not if your tryna looksmax, im not going to sit here and be say that marpe doesn’t work tho, definitely offers shit that a bimax couldn’t, I my self actually have on installed, and I’m getting trimax late 2026. And I’m still honestly considering wearing a face mask just so I can give it my all

 

[Lenko]

still a lefort 1 is more predictable, and you get more return on investment face mask is still viable tho dont get me wrong. Its just that it doesn’t compare to the amount of things you can do in one procedure (lefort bsso genio and implants) im saying because if you need your maxilla to be fixed and your going to go under anesthetists you might as well fix everything else. Nobody is just going to do lefort 1 not if your tryna looksmax, im not going to sit here and be say that marpe doesn’t work tho, definitely offers shit that a bimax couldn’t, I my self actually have on installed, and I’m getting trimax late 2026. And I’m still honestly considering wearing a face mask just so I can give it my all

I wish u well if u do end up going through with the trimax - I am slightly biased as my dad is an orthodontist and I myself am studying orthodontics but nevertheless MARPE is just so damn good with it's ROI. So underrated, just last year a Doctor Hertrampfmade a protocol for adults where the risks of sutures cracking that aren't supposed to is numerically as close to 0 as you can get. You expand, then retract in cycles and basically make your bone sutures childlike. The expansion potential is crazy and you take on no risks associated with general anesthesia or nerve damage.
The case study I think had 25ish patient - all young adult non severe orthodontic cases and they all managed to expand to a high degree with 0 side effects ( no clockwise rotation of the maxilla or mandible happened )

 

[Mr robot]

I wish u well if u do end up going through with the trimax - I am slightly biased as my dad is an orthodontist and I myself am studying orthodontics but nevertheless MARPE is just so damn good with it's ROI. So underrated, just last year a Doctor Hertrampfmade a protocol for adults where the risks of sutures cracking that aren't supposed to is numerically as close to 0 as you can get. You expand, then retract in cycles and basically make your bone sutures childlike. The expansion potential is crazy and you take on no risks associated with general anesthesia or nerve damage.
The case study I think had 25ish patient - all young adult non severe orthodontic cases and they all managed to expand to a high degree with 0 side effects ( no clockwise rotation of the maxilla or mandible happened )

What’s your opinions on a marpe when you have previously had braces, and my teeth are perfectly aligned and I have a good bite(upper teeth over lower teeth)

 

[moltisantichincel]

I wish u well if u do end up going through with the trimax - I am slightly biased as my dad is an orthodontist and I myself am studying orthodontics but nevertheless MARPE is just so damn good with it's ROI. So underrated, just last year a Doctor Hertrampfmade a protocol for adults where the risks of sutures cracking that aren't supposed to is numerically as close to 0 as you can get. You expand, then retract in cycles and basically make your bone sutures childlike. The expansion potential is crazy and you take on no risks associated with general anesthesia or nerve damage.
The case study I think had 25ish patient - all young adult non severe orthodontic cases and they all managed to expand to a high degree with 0 side effects ( no clockwise rotation of the maxilla or mandible happened )

appreciate that bro it'll be a while until im done with everything but ill definitely make a thread posting my results, but yeah I bet that there is so much cool shit we can do with just splitting the suture via miniscrews, got me excited to see how orthodontics evolve especially considering majority of orthos fuck people up including me (just hope you and your dad won't be like that) (shit I might become one now that im thinking about it) but god bless good orthos, and the marpe providers, dr Yoon (my ortho) is the sweetest lady out there and very skilled

 

[Lenko]

What’s your opinions on a marpe when you have previously had braces, and my teeth are perfectly aligned and I have a good bite(upper teeth over lower teeth)

skeletal borne MARPE with moderate expansion goals of like 4 / 6mm will result in 1-2mm of transverse overjet which will take a good ortho 2 - 3 months to fix without much effort

 

[Lenko]

appreciate that bro it'll be a while until im done with everything but ill definitely make a thread posting my results, but yeah I bet that there is so much cool shit we can do with just splitting the suture via miniscrews, got me excited to see how orthodontics evolve especially considering majority of orthos fuck people up including me (just hope you and your dad won't be like that) (shit I might become one now that im thinking about it) but god bless good orthos, and the marpe providers, dr Yoon (my ortho) is the sweetest lady out there and very skilled

tbh most orthos aren't constantly seeking to improve their knowledge all that much - as the saying goes " you can't teach an old horse new tricks " - most orthos including my dad have worse knowledge on skeletal borne MARPEs than me and I'm still a student ; it's a relatively new thing and most are still on dental borne one's which are beyond obsolete, thankfully I'm a retard who rots on org and pubmed so I am very current on the new research and send it my dad's way

 

[garoutheincelReturn]

still a lefort 1 is more predictable, and you get more return on investment face mask is still viable tho dont get me wrong. Its just that it doesn’t compare to the amount of things you can do in one procedure (lefort bsso genio and implants) im saying because if you need your maxilla to be fixed and your going to go under anesthetists you might as well fix everything else. Nobody is just going to do lefort 1 not if your tryna looksmax, im not going to sit here and be say that marpe doesn’t work tho, definitely offers shit that a bimax couldn’t, I my self actually have on installed, and I’m getting trimax late 2026. And I’m still honestly considering wearing a face mask just so I can give it my all

if your palate is narrow you might aswell get it and the leforts later