My experience gymcelling and questions regarding gear

[Be Patient With Me]

I am now 19 and have been gymcelling since I was 14, but in the most inconsistent way possible, I still don't even look like an untrained black teen, and it is completely my fault. I don't eat well, I don't sleep well, heck, I don't even train well. Time and time again, I said to myself that I wanted to "lock in" and change my habits, yet I never did. This happened at least 20 times during the last 5 years, and I have accepted that I will never change. Seeing my friends who actually hit the gym consistently still look like they don't lift, reinforced my laziness even more because what even is the point?

Now, all that's on my mind is building muscle effortlessly because I know that I can never lock in, even if it means in an unnatural way. This may sound retarded and obvious, but my priority is my health, my biggest dream in life is to be a father, and I'd rather not lose my fertility (I'm emphasizing fertility, but I don't want any major health problems, really)

I haven't done much research, but I was thinking of either doing RAD-140 (with enclo) or 250test (with hcg). What do y'all think? What can guarantee me muscle but still be rather safe?

I want a cycle, maybe two a year (5-8 weeks ish???). I do NOT want to inject test regularly.

 

[Be Patient With Me]

mods i dont know why this was posted twice in fitness and health, i didnt mean to do that im sorry

 

[hyhxhxxh]

I am now 19 and have been gymcelling since I was 14, but in the most inconsistent way possible, I still don't even look like an untrained black teen, and it is completely my fault. I don't eat well, I don't sleep well, heck, I don't even train well. Time and time again, I said to myself that I wanted to "lock in" and change my habits, yet I never did. This happened at least 20 times during the last 5 years, and I have accepted that I will never change. Seeing my friends who actually hit the gym consistently still look like they don't lift, reinforced my laziness even more because what even is the point?

Now, all that's on my mind is building muscle effortlessly because I know that I can never lock in, even if it means in an unnatural way. This may sound retarded and obvious, but my priority is my health, my biggest dream in life is to be a father, and I'd rather not lose my fertility (I'm emphasizing fertility, but I don't want any major health problems, really)

I haven't done much research, but I was thinking of either doing RAD-140 (with enclo) or 250test (with hcg). What do y'all think? What can guarantee me muscle but still be rather safe?

I want a cycle, maybe two a year (5-8 weeks ish???). I do NOT want to inject test regularly.

If you're not conscientious and driven enough to get your basic health right consistently, the steroids thing starts to look really lopsided. They're a hassle themselves, and what are you gonna do when you get sides and your health is fucked because you didn't "lock in" enough to?

Would you be dedicated enough to get panels done regularly?

I don't mean to be fatalistic. You still can get progress with your habits. But this is jumping several steps. Your health is your priority, and gear is relatively safe if you do it right. But I think you can understand that I wouldn't trust you to do it right.

Perhaps examine what's causing your consistent failure to adhere to your sleep, diet and exercise?

 

[Garfungus]

I am now 19 and have been gymcelling since I was 14, but in the most inconsistent way possible, I still don't even look like an untrained black teen, and it is completely my fault. I don't eat well, I don't sleep well, heck, I don't even train well. Time and time again, I said to myself that I wanted to "lock in" and change my habits, yet I never did. This happened at least 20 times during the last 5 years, and I have accepted that I will never change. Seeing my friends who actually hit the gym consistently still look like they don't lift, reinforced my laziness even more because what even is the point?

Now, all that's on my mind is building muscle effortlessly because I know that I can never lock in, even if it means in an unnatural way. This may sound retarded and obvious, but my priority is my health, my biggest dream in life is to be a father, and I'd rather not lose my fertility (I'm emphasizing fertility, but I don't want any major health problems, really)

I haven't done much research, but I was thinking of either doing RAD-140 (with enclo) or 250test (with hcg). What do y'all think? What can guarantee me muscle but still be rather safe?

I want a cycle, maybe two a year (5-8 weeks ish???). I do NOT want to inject test regularly.

DO NOT START STEROIDS

Steroids won't magically make you lean and jacked, if your sleep and eating habits are bad then they won't do shit other than make you a slightly bigger slob. Dial in on your sleep, meals, and training. You don't have to wait till you're 30 when your hormones drop naturally but at least wait until you're 21 you're young now with your own set of priorities but priorities change. Give yourself that deadline and if by the time you get to that age and if you are not at least 14% body fat with an already above average body then you're still not ready to start the major commitment that is PED use.

 

[King.epstein]

I am now 19 and have been gymcelling since I was 14, but in the most inconsistent way possible, I still don't even look like an untrained black teen, and it is completely my fault. I don't eat well, I don't sleep well, heck, I don't even train well. Time and time again, I said to myself that I wanted to "lock in" and change my habits, yet I never did. This happened at least 20 times during the last 5 years, and I have accepted that I will never change. Seeing my friends who actually hit the gym consistently still look like they don't lift, reinforced my laziness even more because what even is the point?

Now, all that's on my mind is building muscle effortlessly because I know that I can never lock in, even if it means in an unnatural way. This may sound retarded and obvious, but my priority is my health, my biggest dream in life is to be a father, and I'd rather not lose my fertility (I'm emphasizing fertility, but I don't want any major health problems, really)

I haven't done much research, but I was thinking of either doing RAD-140 (with enclo) or 250test (with hcg). What do y'all think? What can guarantee me muscle but still be rather safe?

I want a cycle, maybe two a year (5-8 weeks ish???). I do NOT want to inject test regularly.

Had the same problem now I’m on roids and can tell a slight improvement but it still doesn’t matter, when I’m wearing a shirt or pullover I look like someone who never worked out before

 

[hrdcappedltn]

, I still don't even look like an untrained black teen

Bro took the wrong racepill

 

[hej1377]

DO NOT START STEROIDS

Steroids won't magically make you lean and jacked, if your sleep and eating habits are bad then they won't do shit other than make you a slightly bigger slob. Dial in on your sleep, meals, and training. You don't have to wait till you're 30 when your hormones drop naturally but at least wait until you're 21 you're young now with your own set of priorities but priorities change. Give yourself that deadline and if by the time you get to that age and if you are not at least 14% body fat with an already above average body then you're still not ready to start the major commitment that is PED use.

Your a fucking idiot, pretty mich the only thing he has to do with roids for it to work is eat protein

And what he fuck are you talking about priorities? Do you think hes just gonna want to be a skinny bitch when he's 21?

And what are you talking about major commitment? Wow he has to do a bit of research then stick a needle in his thigh, what a fucking hassle

 

[OnarunforPSL]

I am now 19 and have been gymcelling since I was 14, but in the most inconsistent way possible, I still don't even look like an untrained black teen, and it is completely my fault. I don't eat well, I don't sleep well, heck, I don't even train well. Time and time again, I said to myself that I wanted to "lock in" and change my habits, yet I never did. This happened at least 20 times during the last 5 years, and I have accepted that I will never change. Seeing my friends who actually hit the gym consistently still look like they don't lift, reinforced my laziness even more because what even is the point?

Now, all that's on my mind is building muscle effortlessly because I know that I can never lock in, even if it means in an unnatural way. This may sound retarded and obvious, but my priority is my health, my biggest dream in life is to be a father, and I'd rather not lose my fertility (I'm emphasizing fertility, but I don't want any major health problems, really)

I haven't done much research, but I was thinking of either doing RAD-140 (with enclo) or 250test (with hcg). What do y'all think? What can guarantee me muscle but still be rather safe?

I want a cycle, maybe two a year (5-8 weeks ish???). I do NOT want to inject test regularly.

take adderall to lock in

 

[Garfungus]

Your a fucking idiot, pretty mich the only thing he has to do with roids for it to work is eat protein

And what he fuck are you talking about priorities? Do you think hes just gonna want to be a skinny bitch when he's 21?

And what are you talking about major commitment? Wow he has to do a bit of research then stick a needle in his thigh, what a fucking hassle

If you haven't pinned then you shouldn't even be replying.
“Pretty much the only thing he has to do with roids for it to work is eat protein” — WRONG. The guy lives like shit, so it’s safe to assume he has a high body fat percentage. Taking gear at high body fat isn’t beneficial because higher fat levels increase estrogen conversion, worsen side effects, and blunt the anabolic response. You end up with more water, more fat, and more health risks instead of clean muscle. So no, you can’t just “eat protein.” There’s a lot you need to have dialed in for gear to work properly, which is exactly why it’s a serious commitment.


Plus, once you hop on, you won’t want to get off which only reinforces my point about it being a long-term responsibility, and the longer you stay on, the higher the risk of side effects.


“Do you think he’s just going to want to be a skinny bitch when he’s 21?” projecting much? Unless OP is subhuman, he can build an above-average physique naturally, enjoy himself, and then start pinning once he’s actually ready.


“Wow he has to do a bit of research then stick a needle in his thigh” you clearly don’t know anything.

 

[hej1377]

If you haven't pinned then you shouldn't have even replied . "pretty mich the only thing he has to do with roids for it to work is eat protein" WRONG the guy lives like shit so it's safe to say he likely has a high BF% taking gear at high body fat isn’t beneficial because higher fat levels increase estrogen conversion, worsen side effects, and reduce the anabolic response. You get more water, fat, and health risks instead of clean muscle so no you fucking retard you can't just "eat protein" theres a lot of stuff you have to be on top of hence why it's a major commitment so I'm advising him to dial in first PLUS once you hop on you won't want to get off FURTHERING MY POINT ON HOW IT'S A COMMITMENT and the longer you're staying on the more likely you are to suffer side effects. "Do you think hes just gonna want to be a skinny bitch when he's 21" projecting much ? Unless OP is subhuman he can get a physique that's above average, have his fun, then start pinning once he's ready. "Wow he has to do a bit of research then stick a needle in his thigh" you don't know anything.

You know what he can do to avoid that estrogen? Arimidex pill, done

You litterally hace to only wat protein because the anabolic properties of roids is just them triggering protein synthesis ehich creates muscle

So why would he dial in naturally? Its less efficient and just objectively worse

We don't live in 1980, there isnt a side he cant midigate, so unless youre a fucking retard its 15lbs of free muscle

 

[Garfungus]

You know what he can do to avoid that estrogen? Arimidex pill, done

You litterally hace to only wat protein because the anabolic properties of roids is just them triggering protein synthesis ehich creates muscle

So why would he dial in naturally? Its less efficient and just objectively worse

We don't live in 1980, there isnt a side he cant midigate, so unless youre a fucking retard its 15lbs of free muscle

Bro, stop embarrassing yourself. Arimidex isn’t a magic ‘estrogen off’ button. High body fat means you aromatize MORE, which means you need MORE AI, which means you’re way more likely to crash estrogen and wreck your joints, libido, cholesterol, and blood pressure. You don’t understand hormones enough to even talk about this.


And the ‘just eat protein’ take is hilariously clueless. Steroids don’t build muscle by themselves they amplify the training stimulus. If his training, sleep, and diet are trash, he’ll just get fatter and hold water. That’s why out-of-shape dudes on gear look like inflated marshmallows instead of bodybuilders.


He should dial in naturally because if he can’t even get the basics right, pinning isn’t going to magically fix the fact that he doesn’t know how to train or eat. Gear doesn’t replace discipline it only exposes the lack of it.


And your "there isn’t a side he can’t mitigate" comment proves you’ve never pinned in your life. You don’t mitigate hematocrit, lipid damage, androgenic sides, acne, shutdown, or blood pressure issues with a single pill, you donut. Learn something before pretending you’re an endocrinologist. STOP talking about something you know nothing about.

 

[hej1377]

Bro, stop embarrassing yourself. Arimidex isn’t a magic ‘estrogen off’ button. High body fat means you aromatize MORE, which means you need MORE AI, which means you’re way more likely to crash estrogen and wreck your joints, libido, cholesterol, and blood pressure. You don’t understand hormones enough to even talk about this.

Are you trolling? He just has to take more and more ai untill you feel good at a certain dosage, he can then just stay there and have no sides as his estrogen is gonna be in range

And the ‘just eat protein’ take is hilariously clueless. Steroids don’t build muscle by themselves they amplify the training stimulus. If his training, sleep, and diet are trash, he’ll just get fatter and hold water. That’s why out-of-shape dudes on gear look like inflated marshmallows instead of bobodybuilders.

Are you trolling? Please learn how aandrogen eceptors work, completely different process from how you put muscle on naturally

And your "there isn’t a side he can’t mitigate" comment proves you’ve never pinned in your life. You don’t mitigate hematocrit, lipid damage, androgenic sides, acne, shutdown, or blood pressure issues with a single pill, you donut. Learn something before pretending you’re an endocrinologist. STOP talking about something you know nothing about.

Aspirin can help hematocrit, rosuvastin for lipids,ru58841 and dutasteride and a million other conpounds like ar degraders and other anti androgens for androgenic sides, accutane fixes acne, so does the anti androgens, idiot, telmisartan or valsartan or nevibiol for bp

Retard

 

[dantemaxxing]

t

I am now 19 and have been gymcelling since I was 14, but in the most inconsistent way possible, I still don't even look like an untrained black teen, and it is completely my fault. I don't eat well, I don't sleep well, heck, I don't even train well. Time and time again, I said to myself that I wanted to "lock in" and change my habits, yet I never did. This happened at least 20 times during the last 5 years, and I have accepted that I will never change. Seeing my friends who actually hit the gym consistently still look like they don't lift, reinforced my laziness even more because what even is the point?

Now, all that's on my mind is building muscle effortlessly because I know that I can never lock in, even if it means in an unnatural way. This may sound retarded and obvious, but my priority is my health, my biggest dream in life is to be a father, and I'd rather not lose my fertility (I'm emphasizing fertility, but I don't want any major health problems, really)

I haven't done much research, but I was thinking of either doing RAD-140 (with enclo) or 250test (with hcg). What do y'all think? What can guarantee me muscle but still be rather safe?

I want a cycle, maybe two a year (5-8 weeks ish???). I do NOT want to inject test regularly.

hats retarded, if you’re gonna shut down your test production than don’t do it just so you can have slightly more than you already do. do 500 at least

 

[Garfungus]

Are you trolling? He just has to take more and more ai untill you feel good at a certain dosage, he can then just stay there and have no sides as his estrogen is gonna be in range
Are you trolling? Please learn how aandrogen eceptors work, completely different process from how you put muscle on naturally
Aspirin can help hematocrit, rosuvastin for lipids,ru58841 and dutasteride and a million other conpounds like ar degraders and other anti androgens for androgenic sides, accutane fixes acne, so does the anti androgens, idiot, telmisartan or valsartan or nevibiol for bp

Retard

Bro you seriously don’t know what you’re talking about and it’s painful. ‘Just take more AI’ yeah like I already told you but you ignored, that’s exactly how you tank your estrogen, wreck your HDL into the single digits, destroy your joints, crash libido, and give yourself long-term cardiovascular damage. But sure, keep acting like that’s some genius protocol.


And no, androgen receptors don’t magically override training stimulus. Steroids enhance protein synthesis in response to training. Without progressive overload, all you’re ‘amplifying’ is laziness, aromatization, and inflammation. That’s why dudes who don’t train properly look puffy and soft on gear because the drug doesn’t fix stupidity.


Your ‘mitigation’ list is even funnier. Aspirin doesn’t lower hematocrit therapeutic phlebotomy does. RU isn’t systemic, it’s a topical anti-androgen that doesn’t fix internal androgen issues. Dutasteride wrecks neurosteroids. Accutane has liver toxicity. Rosuvastatin has its own risks. Telmisartan helps BP but doesn’t counter the RAAS activation from gear. You’re stacking bandaids on problems you don’t even understand.


You don’t mitigate sides by throwing an entire pharmacy at your flaws you mitigate sides by not being a high body fat beginner jumping on PEDs with no discipline. Stop pretending you’re an endocrinologist when you barely know what half those drugs even do, retard .

serious question have you ever actually pinned, or are you just repeating garbage you read online? Because everything you’re saying proves you’ve never managed real side effects, real bloodwork, or real protocols in your life

 

[hej1377]

Bro you seriously don’t know what you’re talking about and it’s painful. ‘Just take more AI’ yeah like I already told you but you ignored, that’s exactly how you tank your estrogen, wreck your HDL into the single digits, destroy your joints, crash libido, and give yourself long-term cardiovascular damage. But sure, keep acting like that’s some genius protocol.

This only happens if youre an extreme fucking retard, i littrally just told you how you can do it easy, slowly go up untill you dont feel estrogenic sides, since jts jusr small differences youll slowly go down untill youre in a normal range

And no, androgen receptors don’t magically override training stimulus. Steroids enhance protein synthesis in response to training. Without progressive overload, all you’re ‘amplifying’ is laziness, aromatization, and inflammation. That’s why dudes who don’t train properly look puffy and soft on gear because the drug doesn’t fix stupidity.

The differenc is very slight and not the main effect of androgens but they make igfr more sensiitve, that is because your not describing androgens youre decribing igf

Your ‘mitigation’ list is even funnier. Aspirin doesn’t lower hematocrit therapeutic phlebotomy does. RU isn’t systemic, it’s a topical anti-androgen that doesn’t fix internal androgen issues. Dutasteride wrecks neurosteroids. Accutane has liver toxicity. Rosuvastatin has its own risks. Telmisartan helps BP but doesn’t counter the RAAS activation from gear. You’re stacking bandaids on problems you don’t even understand.

It will since youll lose glood, ru doesnt have to work systemically, the main probelms are things like hair and skin which it fixes, for other systemic effects shit like cialis for vasilconstriction, dutasteride or propanolol works for these other issues. Accutanes liver toxicity is trivial as its so tiny. The brain relies more of estrogen and testosterone whivh youll have more of with dutasteride, >goes on to say rosuvastin has risks>doesnt mention them, raas is not itself a problem thereofre the root doesnt necessarily have ot be adressed, telmisartan helps the bad effects of raas which is the importsnt part

You don’t mitigate sides by throwing an entire pharmacy at your flaws you mitigate sides by not being a high body fat beginner jumping on PEDs with no discipline. Stop pretending you’re an endocrinologist when you barely know what half those drugs even do, retard .

What do you think they do? Were they just invented even tjough they dont change how your body does things? Get of this site retard oldcell

serious question have you ever actually pinned, or are you just repeating garbage you read online? Because everything you’re saying proves you’ve never managed real side effects, real bloodwork, or real protocols in your life

Yes, and if youre not stupid nothing bad will happen

 

[Garfungus]

 

[Garfungus]

This only happens if youre an extreme fucking retard, i littrally just told you how you can do it easy, slowly go up untill you dont feel estrogenic sides, since jts jusr small differences youll slowly go down untill youre in a normal range

The differenc is very slight and not the main effect of androgens but they make igfr more sensiitve, that is because your not describing androgens youre decribing igf

It will since youll lose glood, ru doesnt have to work systemically, the main probelms are things like hair and skin which it fixes, for other systemic effects shit like cialis for vasilconstriction, dutasteride or propanolol works for these other issues. Accutanes liver toxicity is trivial as its so tiny. The brain relies more of estrogen and testosterone whivh youll have more of with dutasteride, >goes on to say rosuvastin has risks>doesnt mention them, raas is not itself a problem thereofre the root doesnt necessarily have ot be adressed, telmisartan helps the bad effects of raas which is the importsnt part


What do you think they do? Were they just invented even tjough they dont change how your body does things? Get of this site retard oldcell

Yes, and if youre not stupid nothing bad will happen

You keep pretending hormone management is a smooth dial you can “feel out,” and that alone shows you don’t understand variability. Aromatization isn’t linear, symptoms lag blood levels, and “normal range” isn’t something you arrive at by vibes. Two people can feel identical with completely different E2 on labs. That’s why guessing with AI is how people overshoot, undershoot, and create new problems they didn’t have before.


Your IGF argument is a strawman. Nobody said androgens are IGF. The point is that increased IGF sensitivity, mTOR signaling, and AR activation still require mechanical loading to translate into actual hypertrophy. You don’t bypass physics with hormones. No progressive overload means no meaningful muscle signal to amplify, which is why poor training equals puffy, watery gains instead of tissue accrual.


Your “mitigation” logic is also backwards. Losing blood from aspirin isn’t the same as reducing red blood cell mass; that’s basic physiology. RU solving hair and skin doesn’t address systemic risks. Saying Accutane toxicity is “trivial,” dutasteride is harmless to the brain, and RAAS stress doesn’t matter because you masked downstream effects just shows you’re confusing symptom suppression with risk removal. Stacking drugs to counter other drugs isn’t mastery it’s compensation for bad starting conditions.


And the line “nothing bad will happen if you’re not stupid” is exactly what people say before something does happen. Experience isn’t listing compounds it’s understanding limits, variability, and why foundations matter. Gear amplifies what’s already there. If the base is sloppy, the outcome is too.

And this is the part you keep dodging: if OP doesn’t even have the knowledge or discipline to dial in basic training, diet, sleep, and consistency, what makes you think he’s suddenly ready to manage multiple medications, timing, dosing, interactions, and bloodwork correctly? My argument was never “PEDs are bad” it’s that his starting point is bad. Encouraging someone who can’t even train or eat well enough to get beginner gains to jump straight into gear plus a stack of support drugs is irresponsible. I’m not anti-PEDs at all, but this individual clearly isn’t ready for any of the solutions you’re recommending. Gear amplifies competence it doesn’t replace it.

 

[hej1377]

You keep pretending hormone management is a smooth dial you can “feel out,” and that alone shows you don’t understand variability. Aromatization isn’t linear, symptoms lag blood levels, and “normal range” isn’t something you arrive at by vibes. Two people can feel identical with completely different E2 on labs. That’s why guessing with AI is how people overshoot, undershoot, and create new problems they didn’t have before.

While theyre not linear the graph doesn look like a cliff. And even if it did then guess whats gonna happen? Not much, youll feel like shit for a day or two while you dose back down, you still knoww what normal levels feel like as estrogen high orblow has very clear synptoms. Feeling strong tenderness or breast tissue coming yp or your happy one second crying the next then dose up, youre feeling depression like symptoms,limp dick and brain fogue dose down

Your IGF argument is a strawman. Nobody said androgens are IGF. The point is that increased IGF sensitivity, mTOR signaling, and AR activation still require mechanical loading to translate into actual hypertrophy. You don’t bypass physics with hormones. No progressive overload means no meaningful muscle signal to amplify, which is why poor training equals puffy, watery gains instead of tissue accrual.

I didnt strawman you, not even close. That would mean that i implied that you had any idea what you were talking about. I instead corrected you because youre a retard. And are you stupid? If ar activation needed mechanical tension then guess what you would never get fucked elastin from roids, you wouldnt get hairloss, your skin wouldnt grow and get thicker, your skin doesnt do mechanical loading, trensomnia or mood changes based on androgens wouldnt exist because guess what, the brain doesnt do any any mechanical loading, androgens would never enlarge the prostate becaus ehhe prostate doesnt do any mechanical load. The signaling already happens by androgens going in into the ar's and triggering gene expression of protein synthesis, BECAUSE GUESS WHAT THE STEROIDS ARE THE SIGNAL, it doesnt need mechanical load, and you know bloating happens because of electrolyte balances and hormone blamaces? Your kidney doesnt know if youre in the gym or not, if hes puffy its because he has to much of some electrolytes or possibly a bit to much estrogen.
Just to prove your theory about how androgens even more wrong heres 2 studies on nandrolone where they didnt train yet gained a lot of muscle mass, at low doses compared to context like this should be added

Anabolic effects of nandrolone decanoate in patients receiving dialysis: a randomized controlled trial - PubMed

Treatment with nandrolone for 6 months resulted in a significant increase in LBM associated with functional improvement in patients undergoing dialysis.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Randomized placebo-controlled trial of androgen effects on muscle and bone in men requiring long-term systemic glucocorticoid treatment - PubMed

Long-term glucocorticoid therapy in men is associated with loss of bone and muscle mass as well as a decrease in serum testosterone. We tested the effect of two androgens, testosterone and its minimally aromatizable analog nandrolone, on muscle mass (dual x-ray absorptiometry), muscle strength...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In the second they also had a test group at TRT DOSAGES that still hained significant lbm. If your theory was correct they shouldve gained next to nothing as barely any mechanical loading happen since no gymcelling was done

Your “mitigation” logic is also backwards. Losing blood from aspirin isn’t the same as reducing red blood cell mass; that’s basic physiology. RU solving hair and skin doesn’t address systemic risks. Saying Accutane toxicity is “trivial,” dutasteride is harmless to the brain, and RAAS stress doesn’t matter because you masked downstream effects just shows you’re confusing symptom suppression with risk removal. Stacking drugs to counter other drugs isn’t mastery it’s compensation for bad starting conditions.

I didnt say it was the same. But it removes stress from your kidneys which is the entire impirtant part. Did you miss the part in the last post where i littrally mentioned that other drugs should be used for the rest with examples?. The downstream effects are also trivial, do you seriously think the fda would seriously approve and then doctors very commonly prescribe such a useless drug from their perspective like isotret and dut since they give no fucks about looks? And yes raasdoesnt matter because its the symptoms that cause stress on the organs and therefore the long term health detriments. And saying its compensation literally agrees to the point that the effects become a total of net 0

And the line “nothing bad will happen if you’re not stupid” is exactly what people say before something does happen. Experience isn’t listing compounds it’s understanding limits, variability, and why foundations matter. Gear amplifies what’s already there. If the base is sloppy, the outcome is too.

Sure buddy, lets just make fear mongering claims with no evidence to back it up, and you clearly dont understand that foundations dont matter in this context. I also very clearly understand limits and variability, 500mg test is a very safe dose, if i didnt care about those things i wouldve told op to do grams

And this is the part you keep dodging: if OP doesn’t even have the knowledge or discipline to dial in basic training, diet, sleep, and consistency, what makes you think he’s suddenly ready to manage multiple medications, timing, dosing, interactions, and bloodwork correctly? My argument was never “PEDs are bad” it’s that his starting point is bad. Encouraging someone who can’t even train or eat well enough to get beginner gains to jump straight into gear plus a stack of support drugs is irresponsible. I’m not anti-PEDs at all, but this individual clearly isn’t ready for any of the solutions you’re recommending. Gear amplifies competence it doesn’t replace it.

I didnt dodge it, i earlier acknowledged it as syupid and not compareable due to the exyreme difference in effort needed. Sleep and diet and trianing and consistency forces you to give up things you very mcuh desire, take hours out of your day, take lots of enjoyment out of shit, with this he has to do 1 injection and take like 5 pills, i serously doubt that even a narcoleptic wouldnt be able to do that, there is no importsnt interaction and timing isnt very important, he just has to take that shit itl then saturate and stay pretty much stable. The dosing is also already figured out. He has to draw some oil in a syringe, stick it in his thigh and inject, 30 seconds, take a couple of pills and swallow them, wow 15 more seconds of somehing that takes no effort, wow we can definitely conclude that hes unable to take those 45 seconds since hes not gonna spend over an hour traning every day and sacrifice food, one of the most basic most important things to do. If a person stupid as you can take gear and still be alive im sure he'll be fine

 

[Garfungus]

While theyre not linear the graph doesn look like a cliff. And even if it did then guess whats gonna happen? Not much, youll feel like shit for a day or two while you dose back down, you still knoww what normal levels feel like as estrogen high orblow has very clear synptoms. Feeling strong tenderness or breast tissue coming yp or your happy one second crying the next then dose up, youre feeling depression like symptoms,limp dick and brain fogue dose down

I didnt strawman you, not even close. That would mean that i implied that you had any idea what you were talking about. I instead corrected you because youre a retard. And are you stupid? If ar activation needed mechanical tension then guess what you would never get fucked elastin from roids, you wouldnt get hairloss, your skin wouldnt grow and get thicker, your skin doesnt do mechanical loading, trensomnia or mood changes based on androgens wouldnt exist because guess what, the brain doesnt do any any mechanical loading, androgens would never enlarge the prostate becaus ehhe prostate doesnt do any mechanical load. The signaling already happens by androgens going in into the ar's and triggering gene expression of protein synthesis, BECAUSE GUESS WHAT THE STEROIDS ARE THE SIGNAL, it doesnt need mechanical load, and you know bloating happens because of electrolyte balances and hormone blamaces? Your kidney doesnt know if youre in the gym or not, if hes puffy its because he has to much of some electrolytes or possibly a bit to much estrogen.
Just to prove your theory about how androgens even more wrong heres 2 studies on nandrolone where they didnt train yet gained a lot of muscle mass, at low doses compared to context like this should be added

Anabolic effects of nandrolone decanoate in patients receiving dialysis: a randomized controlled trial - PubMed

Treatment with nandrolone for 6 months resulted in a significant increase in LBM associated with functional improvement in patients undergoing dialysis.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Randomized placebo-controlled trial of androgen effects on muscle and bone in men requiring long-term systemic glucocorticoid treatment - PubMed

Long-term glucocorticoid therapy in men is associated with loss of bone and muscle mass as well as a decrease in serum testosterone. We tested the effect of two androgens, testosterone and its minimally aromatizable analog nandrolone, on muscle mass (dual x-ray absorptiometry), muscle strength...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In the second they also had a test group at TRT DOSAGES that still hained significant lbm. If your theory was correct they shouldve gained next to nothing as barely any mechanical loading happen since no gymcelling was done

I didnt say it was the same. But it removes stress from your kidneys which is the entire impirtant part. Did you miss the part in the last post where i littrally mentioned that other drugs should be used for the rest with examples?. The downstream effects are also trivial, do you seriously think the fda would seriously approve and then doctors very commonly prescribe such a useless drug from their perspective like isotret and dut since they give no fucks about looks? And yes raasdoesnt matter because its the symptoms that cause stress on the organs and therefore the long term health detriments. And saying its compensation literally agrees to the point that the effects become a total of net 0

Sure buddy, lets just make fear mongering claims with no evidence to back it up, and you clearly dont understand that foundations dont matter in this context. I also very clearly understand limits and variability, 500mg test is a very safe dose, if i didnt care about those things i wouldve told op to do grams


I didnt dodge it, i earlier acknowledged it as syupid and not compareable due to the exyreme difference in effort needed. Sleep and diet and trianing and consistency forces you to give up things you very mcuh desire, take hours out of your day, take lots of enjoyment out of shit, with this he has to do 1 injection and take like 5 pills, i serously doubt that even a narcoleptic wouldnt be able to do that, there is no importsnt interaction and timing isnt very important, he just has to take that shit itl then saturate and stay pretty much stable. The dosing is also already figured out. He has to draw some oil in a syringe, stick it in his thigh and inject, 30 seconds, take a couple of pills and swallow them, wow 15 more seconds of somehing that takes no effort, wow we can definitely conclude that hes unable to take those 45 seconds since hes not gonna spend over an hour traning every day and sacrifice food, one of the most basic most important things to do. If a person stupid as you can take gear and still be alive im sure he'll be fine

You’re still mixing up signal vs outcome and symptom control vs risk removal. Yes, androgens can trigger gene transcription without lifting that’s why you see effects in skin, hair, prostate, mood, and even some lean mass in sick or sedentary populations. None of that contradicts what I said. Skeletal muscle hypertrophy that’s durable and functional still requires mechanical loading to organize those signals into contractile tissue. That’s why the dialysis/TRT papers you linked show LBM changes in medically compromised subjects, not gym-quality hypertrophy, and why trained groups consistently outpace untrained ones in real-world outcomes.


On estrogen: saying the curve “isn’t a cliff” misses the point. Non-linear doesn’t mean predictable. Symptoms lag labs, individual sensitivity varies, and chasing “feel” with AI is how people oscillate and create new problems. Labs exist for a reason.


Your mitigation framing keeps proving my argument. Aspirin doesn’t reduce RBC mass, RU doesn’t address systemic risk, masking RAAS downstream doesn’t remove upstream stress, and calling Accutane or dutasteride “trivial” ignores population-level risk variability. Stacking drugs to counter drugs is management, not elimination, and it assumes a competence OP hasn’t shown.


The “500 mg is very safe” line is exactly the overconfidence I’m calling out. Dose tolerance isn’t universal, and safety depends on baseline health, adherence, monitoring, and execution the same basics OP hasn’t dialed. That’s the whole point: starting point matters. If someone can’t reliably train, eat, sleep, and stay consistent, they’re not magically ready to juggle injections, timing, interactions, and bloodwork because it “takes 45 seconds.”


I’m not anti-PEDs. I’m anti-pretending that shortcuts replace foundations. Gear amplifies what’s already there. If the base is weak, the outcome is too no matter how many papers or pills you list.

You’re seriously oversimplifying this. Just because you think 1 injection and 5 pills is “easy” doesn’t mean you actually understand what’s involved. Gear isn’t just about taking a few substances it’s about monitoring, adjusting, and managing side effects, and you clearly have no clue how complicated that actually is. If you think this is just about "taking that shit" and everything stays stable, you’ve got no idea what you’re talking about. Hormonal fluctuations, side effects, and risks aren’t something you can just ignore by popping pills and crossing your fingers.

You’re basically saying, “hey, just take this and you’ll be fine,” but that’s not how hormones work. The idea that you can just take gear without proper monitoring, training, or discipline is reckless and stupid. And don’t pretend you understand the risks when you’re throwing out random drug names without any understanding of how they interact. You’re stacking band aids, not solutions.

So sure, if you want to live like a guinea pig who guesses his way through side effects, keep pretending it’s that simple. But it’s not. And if OP is as clueless as you, he’ll face problems you’re not prepared for. Your looksmaxxing lord and savior clavicular even said it himself that most people are not smart enough to be safe while running gear

You’re also lying about how this even works. Saying “one injection” already tells me you’re either clueless or being dishonest. Anyone who’s actually run gear knows why that’s a terrible idea and why dosing frequency matters but you hand wave it away because, in your world, side effects apparently don’t exist.

At this point it’s one of two things: either you’re a bloated, watery mess who thinks that’s success, or you’re completely talking out of your ass about experience you don’t actually have. Because nobody who’s run things properly talks about hormones, injections, or stability the way you do.

 

[Be Patient With Me]

DO NOT START STEROIDS

Steroids won't magically make you lean and jacked, if your sleep and eating habits are bad then they won't do shit other than make you a slightly bigger slob. Dial in on your sleep, meals, and training. You don't have to wait till you're 30 when your hormones drop naturally but at least wait until you're 21 you're young now with your own set of priorities but priorities change. Give yourself that deadline and if by the time you get to that age and if you are not at least 14% body fat with an already above average body then you're still not ready to start the major commitment that is PED use.

Hey bro you seem very high iq can you dm me? I’m new to this forum (or any forum for that matter) so idk how to dm

 

[3pider]

DO NOT START STEROIDS

Steroids won't magically make you lean and jacked, if your sleep and eating habits are bad then they won't do shit other than make you a slightly bigger slob. Dial in on your sleep, meals, and training. You don't have to wait till you're 30 when your hormones drop naturally but at least wait until you're 21 you're young now with your own set of priorities but priorities change. Give yourself that deadline and if by the time you get to that age and if you are not at least 14% body fat with an already above average body then you're still not ready to start the major commitment that is PED use.

shut up nigger

 

[Garfungus]

Hey bro you seem very high iq can you dm me? I’m new to this forum (or any forum for that matter) so idk how to dm

i just sent u a DM

 

[hej1377]

You’re still mixing up signal vs outcome and symptom control vs risk removal. Yes, androgens can trigger gene transcription without lifting that’s why you see effects in skin, hair, prostate, mood, and even some lean mass in sick or sedentary populations. None of that contradicts what I said. Skeletal muscle hypertrophy that’s durable and functional still requires mechanical loading to organize those signals into contractile tissue. That’s why the dialysis/TRT papers you linked show LBM changes in medically compromised subjects, not gym-quality hypertrophy, and why trained groups consistently outpace untrained ones in real-world outcomes.

If theres any differenc between fhe biology of these subjects and to us, your just making a claim that contradicts science with nothingg to back it up, guess what alsp is added in gene transciption muscle, for ALL people, and guess what all skeletal muscle is furable and functional. Because muscle is muscle. And androgens can signal all this shit with 0 help from nothing else( because they are the signal) but suddenly when they get to skeletal muscle than supposedly no then they need resistance because suddendly according to you now they need signaling and suddenlydont digbal on their own anymore. Your making a mechanistic claim about muscle, if it was true it would be true for all people sedentary or not, but of course it isnt cause youre yapping out of your ass

Evidence or ldar, anti-intelectulism in 2025 jfl

On estrogen: saying the curve “isn’t a cliff” misses the point. Non-linear doesn’t mean predictable. Symptoms lag labs, individual sensitivity varies, and chasing “feel” with AI is how people oscillate and create new problems. Labs exist for a reason.

Yeah because estrogen very much affects how you feel, if somethings fucked up youll feel it

Your mitigation framing keeps proving my argument. Aspirin doesn’t reduce RBC mass, RU doesn’t address systemic risk, masking RAAS downstream doesn’t remove upstream stress, and calling Accutane or dutasteride “trivial” ignores population-level risk variability. Stacking drugs to counter drugs is management, not elimination, and it assumes a competence OP hasn’t shown.

ILL SPELL IT AGAIN YOU ILLITERATE FUCK WE DONT HAVE TO HAVE 1 DRUG LIKE RU TO SOLVE ALL ISSUES YOU CAN VOMBINE IT WITH OTHEE SHIT, THE GOAL IS NOT TO REMOVE ANY UNDERLYING ISSUES THE GOAL IS TO REMOVE EXECESSIVE ORGAN STRESS

okay sorry that i assumend hes part of the 99,9999% of people that wont get those detriments on accutane, while were at it why dont we assume hes allergic to water,the sun and definitely steroids as well lets just advise him to stay in a room fuck all. Why dont we also assume he has 1 in a million level joint problems and can therefore never go to the gym. Because those scenarios are on par with the fear mongering youre doing.

And its exactly management like i claimed. He also isnt doing the management exept for the final easiest part, im doing the management for him he just has to take a pill, he doesn't have to figure out shit and can just get spoofed

The “500 mg is very safe” line is exactly the overconfidence I’m calling out. Dose tolerance isn’t universal, and safety depends on baseline health, adherence, monitoring, and execution the same basics OP hasn’t dialed. That’s the whole point: starting point matters. If someone can’t reliably train, eat, sleep, and stay consistent, they’re not magically ready to juggle injections, timing, interactions, and bloodwork because it “takes 45 seconds.”

If ops health was so bad that he wasnt able to run 500mg, which is very rare he woulsve knwo and told us because pretty severe shit would have to be going on for 500mg to be a problem

I’m not anti-PEDs. I’m anti-pretending that shortcuts replace foundations. Gear amplifies what’s already there. If the base is weak, the outcome is too no matter how many papers or pills you list.

It doesnt amplify shit, it does the same that the gym does but in a completely different way, you couls have a great base and respind shit ot gear or be a skinny bitch and hyper respond, because response to gear has nothing to do wih preexisting physique and eveyrthing to do with ar density and sensitivity

You’re seriously oversimplifying this. Just because you think 1 injection and 5 pills is “easy” doesn’t mean you actually understand what’s involved. Gear isn’t just about taking a few substances it’s about monitoring, adjusting, and managing side effects, and you clearly have no clue how complicated that actually is. If you think this is just about "taking that shit" and everything stays stable, you’ve got no idea what you’re talking about. Hormonal fluctuations, side effects, and risks aren’t something you can just ignore by popping pills and crossing your fingers.

Cery unlikely that he will have major fluctuations if he pins daily like advised, i have cery very much of an idea and it easy as shit on just test, the only thing that cant be prescribed as a 1 dose fits all hereis ai which he can figure out himself pretty easy, dutasteride should just be taken as much of as possible,10mg accutane a day if he has no acne 20 if he does, 10mg cialis

You’re basically saying, “hey, just take this and you’ll be fine,” but that’s not how hormones work. The idea that you can just take gear without proper monitoring, training, or discipline is reckless and stupid. And don’t pretend you understand the risks when you’re throwing out random drug names without any understanding of how they interact. You’re stacking band aids, not solutions.

Ibhave an undertsanding of how they interact, but you dont so your just guessing there might be an interaction so that yiu can fearmonger as an argument but there isnt a meaningfull one.as if gear and training and dicipline interacts jfl its a bit of testosterone im not advising him to blast tren

So sure, if you want to live like a guinea pig who guesses his way through side effects, keep pretending it’s that simple. But it’s not. And if OP is as clueless as you, he’ll face problems you’re not prepared for. Your looksmaxxing lord and savior clavicular even said it himself that most people are not smart enough to be safe while running gear

Im not clueless ive feelt amazing blasting with 0 detriments, keept a low bp etc, and i dont gaf what clavicular said i dont give a fuck about him but even if we did take his advise hes also said they people should try to get help , and were not guessing our way around the side effects. This is testosterone we know how it works and its very very well studies

You’re also lying about how this even works. Saying “one injection” already tells me you’re either clueless or being dishonest. Anyone who’s actually run gear knows why that’s a terrible idea and why dosing frequency matters but you hand wave it away because, in your world, side effects apparently don’t exist.

Im lying now? It is one injection are you retarded,nahen he wakes up he literally just needs to stick his needle in his thigh and shove some pills in his mouth, assuming he just picks a decent longish ester and uses medication with a decent half life he doesnt have to worry about timing

At this point it’s one of two things: either you’re a bloated, watery mess who thinks that’s success, or you’re completely talking out of your ass about experience you don’t actually have. Because nobody who’s run things properly talks about hormones, injections, or stability the way you do.

Third option, not bloated at all and look all feel great

Just kill yourself