Question to Muslimcels

[Greycel Slayer]

Does Allah owe me anything? If not, then why do I owe him something?

 

[Fiqh]

Why ask users with no knowledge, you should go ask your imam

 

[kebab]

Does Allah owe me anything

No

If not, then why do I owe him something?

hes your creator and im sure you want to go to heaven

 

[Gengar]

Have you become a murtadcuck bhai?

 

[Greycel Slayer]

Why ask users with no knowledge, you should go ask your imam

JFL if you truly think I can talk to any sheikh in my area without being harshly judged. Plus, I will not get an answer that is satisfactory, that's for sure. I won't be able to discuss it properly without him thinking that "He has abandoned Islam". And I won't be able to voice my concerns

 

[Greycel Slayer]

Have you become a murtadcuck bhai?

See? This is why I didn't wanna ask a sheikh this question because he would say the same and I wouldn't get a reply.

 

[Greycel Slayer]

No, I'm not a murtadcuck and won't ever be. It's a geniuine question

 

[Fiqh]

JFL if you truly think I can talk to any sheikh in my area without being harshly judged. Plus, I will not get an answer that is satisfactory, that's for sure. I won't be able to discuss it properly without him thinking that "He has abandoned Islam". And I won't be able to voice my concerns

Try asking on r/extomatoes, they won't judge you. Sadly the most knowledgable user there was banned but there's a couple present that can provide a satisfactory answer.

 

[Greycel Slayer]

Try asking on r/extomatoes, they won't judge you. Sadly the most knowledgable user there was banned but there's a couple present that can provide a satisfactory answer.

Who was the most knowledgeable user

 

[Gengar]

No, I'm not a murtadcuck and won't ever be. It's a geniuine question

Oh okay. Just wondering. Well, the thing is… we need God, God does not need us. He isn’t in need of your prayers. But if you want to save yourself from eternal damnation, you have to turn to God and start praying and hope His mercy will grant you a good afterlife. God does not like arrogance because it was arrogance that made the devil rebel against God. There is also a Hadith that says the one who has an atom’s weight of arrogance in his heart won’t enter heaven. So you should stop thinking about what God can do for you. Instead, you should ask what can you do to make God content?

 

[Fiqh]

Who was the most knowledgeable user

An actual student of knowledge who goes by the username u/cn3m_.

He would frequently make posts responding to claims on Islam in the following subreddits, plus many more:

Reddit - The heart of the internet

www.reddit.com

Reddit - The heart of the internet

www.reddit.com

 

[anthony111553]

stephen curry is my lord and savior

 

[Greycel Slayer]

Oh okay. Just wondering. Well, the thing is… we need God, God does not need us. He isn’t in need of your prayers. But if you want to save yourself from eternal damnation, you have to turn to God and start praying and hope His mercy will grant you a good afterlife. God does not like arrogance because it was arrogance that made the devil rebel against God. There is also a Hadith that says the one who has an atom’s weight of arrogance in his heart won’t enter heaven. So you should stop thinking about what God can do for you. Instead, you should ask what can you do to make God content?

So God is just, but he is not fair. If he were fair, then everyone would be put on the same playing field. Everyone would have equally as many resources and everyone would be equally as attractive.

However, some of us are born poor, some rich. Some chads and some subhumans. Some tall and some short. This is where God is not fair, but he is just in the sense that if some poor guy wasn't able to please him due to lack of money, God won't judge him harsly.

 

[Gengar]

So God is just, but he is not fair. If he were fair, then everyone would be put on the same playing field. Everyone would have equally as many resources and everyone would be equally as attractive.

However, some of us are born poor, some rich. Some chads and some subhumans. Some tall and some short. This is where God is not fair, but he is just in the sense that if some poor guy wasn't able to please him due to lack of money, God won't judge him harsly.

Fairness is a social construct.

 

[Fiqh]

So God is just, but he is not fair. If he were fair, then everyone would be put on the same playing field. Everyone would have equally as many resources and everyone would be equally as attractive.

However, some of us are born poor, some rich. Some chads and some subhumans. Some tall and some short. This is where God is not fair, but he is just in the sense that if some poor guy wasn't able to please him due to lack of money, God won't judge him harsly.

Good series to listen to:

 

[Greycel Slayer]

No

hes your creator and im sure you want to go to heaven

If you have infinite money, but you CHOOSE to make you son dress up worse than a homeless beggar every single day and send him off to school, knowing that he would be harrased. Knowing that your son will be bullied and won't be able to fight back. When the son voices his concern, you simply ignore him. Then does that son still need to show you respect?

 

[Greycel Slayer]

Good series to listen to:

I've listened to countless lectures already. I doubt I would gain new information as the content of these lectures is very basic

 

[Fiqh]

I've listened to countless lectures already. I doubt I would gain new information as the content of these lectures is very basic

For example

 

[Deleted member 41390]

Does Allah owe me anything? If not, then why do I owe him something?

dont even bother bhai it will be a waste of time

 

[Greycel Slayer]

For example

Memorized entire quran, read the entire sahih bukhari, have memorized over a 100 hadith, did uloom for almost 2 years. I see no benefit in listening to sheikhs on youtube as many of them are more misguided than myself.

 

[Fiqh]

Memorized entire quran, read the entire sahih bukhari, have memorized over a 100 hadith, did uloom for almost 2 years. I see no benefit in listening to sheikhs on youtube as many of them are more misguided than myself.

To answer your question, Allah does not owe you nor does He owe anyone anything.

Why Did Allah Create Us? - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

 

[emeraldglass]

Does Allah owe me anything?

Does Allah owe you something? Yes, He does. He owes you to judge in fairness and justice. This isn't because you have power over Him or because he has to but simply because He promised it, and Allah does not break a covenant.

If not, then why do I owe him something?

You ask "Why do I owe Allah?" The answer is very simple. You need to remember that Allah created you, bestowed you with existence, and provided everything you use, see, spend, and consume. All your senses for learning and finding relief are also blessings from Him. If you consider the debt you owe your parents for their care and nurturing, imagine the gratitude owed to Allah Most High. It's not a debt for something you didn't receive; it's a debt of gratitude expressed through worship.

 

[Greycel Slayer]

To answer your question, Allah does not owe you nor does He owe anyone anything.

Why Did Allah Create Us? - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

islamqa JFL, any islamqa links should be ignored

 

[Fiqh]

islamqa JFL, any islamqa links should be ignored

Elab

 

[GuyFromSingapore]

Have you become a murtadcuck bhai?

USA has put out a $5 mil bounty on Al-Shabaab leader Abukar Ali Adnan

@PseudoMaxxer @KING REIDYZ

looksmax.org

Operation Sandstorm intelligence gathering megathread

https://looksmax.org/threads/recruiting-north-africans-middle-easterners-south-asians-for-50-000-100-000.899348/ https://looksmax.org/threads/usa-has-put-out-a-5-mil-bounty-on-al-shabaab-leader-abukar-ali-adnan.899283/...

looksmax.org

 

[Greycel Slayer]

Elab

They rarely know what they are talking about, just like all the other sheikhs and sites on the internet. I skimmed through the article none the less and there is nothing in there. I've read those verses in the quran hundreds of times.

 

[Greycel Slayer]

USA has put out a $5 mil bounty on Al-Shabaab leader Abukar Ali Adnan

@PseudoMaxxer @KING REIDYZ

looksmax.org

Operation Sandstorm intelligence gathering megathread

https://looksmax.org/threads/recruiting-north-africans-middle-easterners-south-asians-for-50-000-100-000.899348/ https://looksmax.org/threads/usa-has-put-out-a-5-mil-bounty-on-al-shabaab-leader-abukar-ali-adnan.899283/...

looksmax.org

JFL at al shabbab. dowla cucked them coz they were too busy saving themselves

 

[Fiqh]

They rarely know what they are talking about, just like all the other sheikhs and sites on the internet. I skimmed through the article none the less and there is nothing in there. I've read those verses in the quran hundreds of times.

Enlighten me on how referring to the Quran and Sunnah results in them "not knowing what they are talking about".

 

[Fiqh]

I don't mind what you say but at the same time your credibility is weak given the degeneracy you post:

Requirements FOR GANDY HEAVEN

GANDY'S FAVORITE - INSANT ACCEPTANCE INTO GANDY HEAVEN AND GURANTEED REINCARNATION - You shall not have an oneitis - You shall not develop a crush - You shall not have touched a woman - You shall be an incel - You shall be a subhuman - You shall be a virgin - You shall be short - You shall have...

looksmax.org

FEMALE ENTERTAINMENT WOULDN'T EXIST IF NOT FOR SIMPS

looksmax.org

THE SMV GOD - Imran Khan Tribute

None other than IMRAN KHAN. ALL OF THESE are ACTORS, Celebs and rich high class stacies JFL, WATCH THE CUMSKIN CUCK GET BRUTALLY CUCKED as stacy is dying to be thrown around by Imran Khan ANOTHER WHITE STACY looking at him with EXTREME THIRST Watch the THIRSTY eyes of this stacy Look at...

looksmax.org

 

[Greycel Slayer]

Enlighten me on how referring to the Quran and Sunnah results in them "not knowing what they are talking about".

....
They form their own explanations and many times not only ignore, but also criticize the opinions of many prominent fuqaha, ulama, and muhadithoon. Despite being a "salafi" site, they don't look beyond Ibn Uthaymeen for all of their answers JFL.

 

[Fiqh]

....
They form their own explanations and many times not only ignore, but also criticize the opinions of many prominent fuqaha, ulama, and muhadithoon. Despite being a "salafi" site, they don't look beyond Ibn Uthaymeen for all of their answers JFL.

They are not "salafi", nor have they ever ascribed themselves as such.

Let's say you are right, can you provide examples for these claims? How does this essentially nullify the fatwas of Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid (may Allah preserve him)? They do look beyond Ibn Uthaymeen, I would know given I reference them a lot. "Opinions" are rejected only for the right reason, so please provide the source for your claims.

 

[Greycel Slayer]

"Salafis" are a tiktok joke. They've taken over tiktok and are attempting to reinvent the wheel by brainwashing the entire generation into abandoning the works of earlier scholars and coming up with their own interpretation of hadith and quranic texts.

 

[Fiqh]

"Salafis" are a tiktok joke. They've taken over tiktok and are attempting to reinvent the wheel by brainwashing the entire generation into abandoning the works of earlier scholars and coming up with their own interpretation of hadith and quranic texts.

Yeah this "Salafi" obsession is quite weird to me, given that the scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah never emphasised on such. You may be referring to the Madkhalis aka pseudo-salafis.

 

[Greycel Slayer]

They are not "salafi", nor have they ever ascribed themselves as such.

Let's say you are right, can you provide examples for these claims? How does this essentially nullify the fatwas of Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid (may Allah preserve him)? They do look beyond Ibn Uthaymeen, I would know given I reference them a lot.

This post by them is enough to prove their attempts at disuniting the muslims and spreading falsehood

Who are the Ash‘aris? Are they among Ahl as-Sunnah? - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

They are a "salafi" site. A misguided one at that. The "salafi" movement is nothing but an attempt to divide the muslims despite Allah commanding us to hold firm to his rope.


And yes they quote ibn taymiyah a lot and use him to cause divide between the muslims. EVEN THO IBN TAYMIYAH SAID in [Majmūʿ 'l-Fatāwā 3/227-229

“People know there was alienation and animosity between the Ḥanbalīs and the Ashʿarīs. I was of those who strived to reconcile the Muslims’ hearts and unify them, in emulation of the command to hold fast to Allāh’s Rope. I removed most of the alienation that existed in the hearts. I clarified that al-Ashʿarī was one of the most noble of the speculative theologians (Mutakallimūn) to ascribe to Imām Aḥmad, may Allāh have mercy on him, and those like him who support his way, as al-Ashʿarī himself mentions in his books.

It is as Abū Ishāq al-Shīrāzī said, “The Ashʿarīs only gained credence among people because of their attribution to the Ḥanbalīs”, and the early Imāms of the Ḥanbalīs - such as Abū Bakr ʿAbd 'l-ʿAzīz, Abū 'l-Hasan al-Tamīmī and their likes - mention his statements in their books. In fact, his status among the early [Ḥanbalīs] was like that of Ibn ʿAqīl among the later ones, except that Ibn ʿAqīl has a distinct status in knowledge of law (Fiqh) and its fundamentals (Usūl).

As for al-Ashʿarī, he is closer to the fundamentals of Aḥmad than Ibn ʿAqīl and follows them more closely, for the closer a person is to the predecessors (Salaf), the greater his knowledge will be of the rational and textual [sciences].

I would clarify this to the Ḥanbalīs and explain to them that al-Ashʿarī, although he was a student of the Muʿtazilīs - he was the student of al-Jubbā'ī - he repented and inclined to the method of Ibn Kullāb. He then learned the fundamentals of prophetic tradition (Usūl 'l-Ḥadīth) in Basra from Zakariyyā al-Sājī. Then, when he came to Baghdad, he learned other things from the Ḥanbalīs of Baghdad. This was his final state as he and his companions mention in their books.

Likewise, Ibn ʿAqīl had been a student of the two Muʿtazilīs, Ibn 'l-Walīd and Ibn 'l-Tabbān. He then repented from that. His penance in the presence of al-Sharīf Abū Jaʿfar is well known.

As thus, just as there are those among the followers of Aḥmad who hate Ibn ʿAqīl and condemn him, those who condemn al-Ashʿarī are not limited to the followers of Aḥmad; rather, such people can be found in all groups.

And when I publicised the words of al-Ashʿarī and the Ḥanbalīs saw it, they said, “This is better than the words of Shaykh al-Muwaffaq [Ibn Qudāmah]!” The Muslims rejoiced at the unification of the ranks.

I publicized what Ibn ʿAsākir stated in his virtues (Manāqib) [of al-Ash'arī] that “the Ḥanbalīs and the Ashʿarīs were united until the time of al-Qushayrī”, for when the [well-known] controversy (Fitnah) took place in Baghdad [at the time of al-Qushayrī], it caused disunity, and it is known that every group has followers who are [both] upright and astray.”

 

[hopecel]

Does Allah owe me anything? If not, then why do I owe him something?

over for religious copers

 

[Greycel Slayer]

Yeah this "Salafi" obsession is quite weird to me, given that the scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah never emphasised on such. You may be referring to the Madkhalis aka pseudo-salafis.

JFL Madhkhalis are clowns. There is no point in discussing them. They refuse to criticize "muh rulers" over major issues. They even refuse to criticize their policies regarding israel.

 

[Fiqh]

They are a "salafi" site. A misguided one at that. The "salafi" movement is nothing but an attempt to divide the muslims despite Allah commanding us to hold firm to his rope.

Frankly, you are giving them a label when they haven't ascribed themselves as such.

divide between the muslims

You have been making quite a lot of claims without providing evidence for them, where have they "divided" the Muslims?

 

[Fiqh]

This post by them is enough to prove their attempts at disuniting the muslims and spreading falsehood

Who are the Ash‘aris? Are they among Ahl as-Sunnah? - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

They are a "salafi" site. A misguided one at that. The "salafi" movement is nothing but an attempt to divide the muslims despite Allah commanding us to hold firm to his rope.


And yes they quote ibn taymiyah a lot and use him to cause divide between the muslims. EVEN THO IBN TAYMIYAH SAID in [Majmūʿ 'l-Fatāwā 3/227-229

What are your thoughts on the use of philosophy and theological rhetoric [علم الكلام]?

​

 

[Fiqh]

This post by them is enough to prove their attempts at disuniting the muslims and spreading falsehood

Who are the Ash‘aris? Are they among Ahl as-Sunnah? - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

They are a "salafi" site. A misguided one at that. The "salafi" movement is nothing but an attempt to divide the muslims despite Allah commanding us to hold firm to his rope.


And yes they quote ibn taymiyah a lot and use him to cause divide between the muslims. EVEN THO IBN TAYMIYAH SAID in [Majmūʿ 'l-Fatāwā 3/227-229

Nvm I didn't read the fatwa one second

 

[Greycel Slayer]

You have been making quite a lot of claims without providing evidence for them, where have they "divided" the Muslims?

Did you even read the article? How long have you been studying? That site is well known for their salafi bias, almost everyone knows it. I'm surprised you haven't caught onto it yet.They give preference to ibn uthaymeen over ibn hajar, ibn hazam, imam ghazali, and even take the teachings of Albani over the 4 imams LOL

 

[Greycel Slayer]

What are your thoughts on the use of philosophy and theological rhetoric [علم الكلام]?

​

Nothing wrong with it.

 

[Veganist]

bro u don't understand the basic principles of theism, leave islam aside

mirin that islambot cocksucker who's preaching in every thread about islam btw

In my place it would be ban on sight but I understand 50% of the userbase here is pakistan

 

[Fiqh]

This post by them is enough to prove their attempts at disuniting the muslims and spreading falsehood

Who are the Ash‘aris? Are they among Ahl as-Sunnah? - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

They are a "salafi" site. A misguided one at that. The "salafi" movement is nothing but an attempt to divide the muslims despite Allah commanding us to hold firm to his rope.


And yes they quote ibn taymiyah a lot and use him to cause divide between the muslims. EVEN THO IBN TAYMIYAH SAID in [Majmūʿ 'l-Fatāwā 3/227-229

Spoiler

 

[Greycel Slayer]

Spoiler

JFL. Like I said, all the salafis have taken over tiktok and youtube. Let it be known that Ibn Hajar, Imam Nawawwi, and Imam Ghazali were Ashari. To call ashari and maturdi misguided is calling 90% of muslims misguided. MAIN CHARACTER COMPLEX LOL. "We are right, they are wrong."

To muslims: "PHILOSOPHY IS HARAM, ASHARI ARE MISGUIDED, YOU ARE ALL KUFFAR"
To Rebecca: "Well you see rebecca....WE LOVE OUR CHRISTIAN BROTHERS. spits philosophy that muslims excelled in during the golden age of islam"

hypocrites

 

[Fiqh]

JFL. Like I said, all the salafis have taken over tiktok and youtube. Let it be known that Ibn Hajar, Imam Nawawwi, and Imam Ghazali were Ashari. Effectively calling 90% of muslims misguided.

To muslims: "PHILOSOPHY IS HARAM, ASHARI ARE MISGUIDED, YOU ARE ALL KUFFAR"
To Rebecca: "Well you see rebecca....WE LOVE OUR CHRISTIAN BROTHERS. spits philosophy that muslims excelled in during the golden age of islam"

hypocrites

I'm going to go to sleep so if I reply it'll probably be later.

 

[Greycel Slayer]

I'm going to go to sleep so if I reply it'll probably be later.

I've had this convo hundreds of times and none of them yield any results. I do not plan on continuing. The claim "Abu hasan al ashari repented and became a salafi" is so baseless and idiotic that it leaves everyone speechless. It's like saying hitler repented and became a jew JFL

 

[Fiqh]

JFL. Like I said, all the salafis have taken over tiktok and youtube. Let it be known that Ibn Hajar, Imam Nawawwi, and Imam Ghazali were Ashari. To call ashari and maturdi misguided is calling 90% of muslims misguided. MAIN CHARACTER COMPLEX LOL. "We are right, they are wrong."

To muslims: "PHILOSOPHY IS HARAM, ASHARI ARE MISGUIDED, YOU ARE ALL KUFFAR"
To Rebecca: "Well you see rebecca....WE LOVE OUR CHRISTIAN BROTHERS. spits philosophy that muslims excelled in during the golden age of islam"

What are you even talking about here?

Are you amongst the Ashaa'irah?

Reddit - The heart of the internet

www.reddit.com

I've had this convo hundreds of times and none of them yield any results. I do not plan on continuing. The claim "Abu hasan al ashari repented and became a salafi" is so baseless and idiotic that it leaves everyone speechless. It's like saying hitler repented and became a jew JFL

You should elaborate. At this point, why should I take your word over الإبانة عن أصول الديانة which has been verified?

 

[Greycel Slayer]

What are you even talking about here?

Are you amongst the Ashaa'irah?

Reddit - The heart of the internet

www.reddit.com

You should elaborate. At this point, why should I take your word over الإبانة عن أصول الديانة which has been verified?

JFL at this jewish propoganda. Title of the video alone is enough to indicate this guy is a potential jew. How gullible can you be to watch these videos and trust them. You fall for jewish cllickbait titles that these pseudo scholars make to earn shekels jfl and trust the lies they spout. It's absolute ignorance to say imam abu hasan al ashari rh became a "salafi" in al ibana. That book was written on the methadology of Abu Muhammad abdullah ibn saeed al qatani AND Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Both of them being from Ahlul Sunnah. So how can it be that al ibana was written on the methadology of al qahatani when imam ashari had rejected the ways of Ibn Kullab LOL.

Ibn Hajar al asqalani mentions that Imam Abu Hasan rh wrote his ibana with the methadology of imam abdallah ibn saeed rh. The "salafi" false claim that Imam Abu hasan rh had THREE stages is absolutely baseless; for he repented from Mutazaillah and adopted the ways of Ahlul Sunnah without there existing a seperate stage. On which he stayed until his death.

 

[Deleted member 8365]

Does Allah owe me anything? If not, then why do I owe him something?

Blud ?

 

[Fiqh]

JFL at this jewish propoganda. Title of the video alone is enough to indicate this guy is a potential jew. How gullible can you be to watch these videos and trust them. You fall for jewish cllickbait titles that these pseudo scholars make to earn shekels jfl and trust the lies they spout. It's absolute ignorance to say imam abu hasan al ashari rh became a "salafi" in al ibana.
That book was written on the methadology of Abu Muhammad abdullah ibn saeed al qatani AND Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Both of them being from Ahlul Sunnah. So how can it be that al ibana was written on the methadology of al qahatani when imam ashari had rejected the ways of Ibn Kullab LOL.

Bismillah,

Are you even aware of the words you are spouting? I'm no longer surprised at the post you have made, given that you believe ilm ul kalaam is permissible. Allah bares witness at your slander, typical of the Mutakallimun.

Before I continue, you have avoided countless questions of mine. You've already claimed that philosophy is permissible, nor have you refuted a single source I provided - rather you disparaged them.

Let me remind you what your people say:

Ibn Hajar al asqalani mentions that Imam Abu Hasan rh wrote his ibana with the methadology of imam abdallah ibn saeed rh. The "salafi" false claim that Imam Abu hasan rh had THREE stages is absolutely baseless; for he repented from Mutazaillah and adopted the ways of Ahlul Sunnah without there existing a seperate stage. On which he stayed until his death.

Ashaa'irah are the later iterations of the original kalaam groups like Jahmiyyah and Mu'tazilah, that is why Ibn Taymiyyah said:

"The Mu'tazilah are half philosophers and half Muslims, and the Ash'aris are half Mu'tazilah and half ahl as-Sunnah."

The mu'tazilah, when going against philosophers, may seem Muslim, but when going against ahl as-Sunnah seem like philosophers. When ash'aris go against Mu'tazilah, they seem like ahl as-Sunnah, but when they go against ahl as-Sunnah, they seem like Mu'tazilah.


The short explanation based on Ahlus-Sunnah sources is as follows:

Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa'ah adhere to four principles that they avoid: distorting, denying, likening Allah to His creation, and discussing the howness of the Lofty Attributes.

We only describe Allah with the Lofty Attributes He has described Himself with in both the Qur'an and the authentic narrations of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Therefore, we cannot attribute to Allah any descriptions that He has not described Himself with in either of these two sources of revelation.

We have Maqaasid ash-Shari'ah, which outlines the overall objectives that the Shari'ah aims to achieve in order to protect and benefit people. Philosophy has its roots in disbelief and it goes against the preservation of the mind. This is why it's forbidden to learn philosophy in Islam. Instead of submitting to Allah and relying on revelation, philosophers, or those influenced by philosophy, start to have reliance on their own false reasoning over the revelation, similar to the misguided sect known as Mu'tazilah and their ilk.

• The use of philosophy and theological rhetoric erroneously justified from people who seemingly regard themselves as Ahlus-Sunnah

If I may add more into this, no scholar of Ahlus-Sunnah, like ibn Taymiyyah himself, never allowed philosophy to be learned contrary to few scholars who mistakenly viewed that to be the case in specific circumstance. There is difference between exposing philosophy versus utilizing it like a knowledge as something taught as any other science in Islam.

Spoiler: Philosophy

Imaam ash-Shaafi’ee (d. 204H) said,

“That a person is put to trial with everything that Allaah has forbidden, besides Shirk, is better than that he looks at Kalaam (theological rhetoric).” He also said, “If people knew what (misleading and destructive) desires are contained within theological rhetoric they would certainly flee from it as they would from a lion,”

Imaam ash-Shaafi’ee (d. 204H) said,

“My ruling regarding the people of theological rhetoric is that they should be beaten with palm leaves and shoes and be paraded amongst the kinsfolk and the tribes with it being announced, ‘This is the reward of the one who abandons the Book and the Sunnah and turns to theological rhetoric (kalaam).”

Abu Yoosuf, the companion of Aboo Haneefah said,

“Whoever sought knowledge by kalaam (theological rhetoric) will turn a heretical apostate,” and Ahmad ibn Hanbal (d. 241H) said, “The person of theological rhetoric will never prosper. And never do you see anyone looking into theological rhetoric except that in his heart is a desire for creating mischief.”

Sufyan Al Thawri (97-161H) was asked about Kalam, to which he responded:

“Abandon the falsehood, follow the Sunnah and leave falsehood.”

Imam Malik Ibn Anas (93-179H) on Ilm Al Kalam:

Malik was asked about Amr Ibn Ubayd and his companions. He replied:

“May Allah curse Amr! He introduced this bidah of Kalam. If Kalam was (beneficial) knowledge, the sahabah and taabi'een would have spoken of it just as they spoke of the rulings of Islam. But it is falsehood and points to falsehood.”

Malik said:

“Whoever seeks religion through Kalam will become a heretic.”

Ibn Abi Hatim (240-327H) said:

“I asked my father and Abu Zur’ah about the positions of the Ahlus-Sunnah regarding the fundamentals of the Religion, and what they found the scholars upon in all of the cities, and what they held as their creed in that regard, so they both said: ‘We found the scholars in all of the cities: in the Hijaaz, in `Iraaq, in Egypt, in Shaam, in Yemen, so it was from their position that:’ Forbidding sitting with the people of Kalam, and looking into the books of the people of Kalam and they both used to say: ‘a person of theological rhetoric will never prosper.’”