Regrow your hair follicles, androgenic alopecia, no excuses after you've read this tbh ngl

[Wannabe6ft2]

Update:
Duta shed was brutal, but I expected worse.
Added l-carnitine amino acid 2 grams taken twice daily, as I expect regrowth to start in a month or less. This will also help with beard growth.
Initially 1.5mg Dutasteride + 1mg finasteride daily feels like a rollercoaster with the estrogen and cortisol increase due to DHT decrease, but the testosterone gains are real as fuck. Then after two weeks of loading phase you drop the Duta dose to 0.5mg daily. You will pack muscle and feel like a younger version of yourself, I have no side effects whatsoever. A year from now you will feel like young again when you get your hair back, and it will just keep growing denser, fuller and hairline less recessed. Two years, three years and so on.
Take Dutasteride and forget about hair loss.

So im guessing the whole microneedling thing didn't quite work out?

 

[Deleted member 1106]

I have used this method to grow terminal hair on lower parts of my forehead where it has never grown before in my life.
I have lowered my hairline by a centimeter using this method.

Can you elaborate on that? How is it possible to grow hair in a place where it has NEVER grown before?

 

[x30001]

I use Fin and Dut together because they do not counteract, that means one does not inhibit the other and will both function simultaneously.

Peppermint oil significantly increases IGF-1 expression, which is a growth factor that is responsible for hair growth. Also peppermint oil is a vasodilator which means it will cause growth but will also cause hairloss If you are not using any 5-ARI and have androgenic alopecia because you are pushing more DHT into your scalp.

I use 2.5mm instead of 1.5mm because of the depth of our follicles, I have read an important study which shows that upper and lower parts of the follicles must be connected for hair to grow. Thus I use 2.5mm to force the body to rebuild new whole follicles with no DHT in between.

I bought some hyaluronic acid on ebay a while back and it's legit, I don't remember from which seller though.



Based.
Dut made me high T and helped pack some muscle, Dut is both the fountain of youth and elixir of the gods for norwooding skinnycels

Can you show me the studies about IGF-1 promoting hair regrowth? Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 773]

Bump because good thread

 

[Sasaz2]

I found this mini review between derminator and Dr pen A6 here: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...qs-procedures-studies-and-such.119653/page-13
It is a good thread if you are interested to try: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/microneedling-faqs-procedures-studies-and-such.119653/

DERMINATOR Vs DR.PEN ULTIMA A6
- MINI REVIEW -
Having seen plenty of discussion & Qs about them and owning both, thought to share my experience & hopefully help with your queries.



SPEED / FREQ.
I have measured the needling frequencies - & differences are unexpectedly large:
ULTIMA (A6) = 5 SPEEDS = 75 - 80 - 90 - 95 - 100 Hz
Speeds packed so close together (MAX Vs MIN ratio 1.4) that 2 speeds would have been enough.


DERMINATOR-2 (D2) = 3 SPEEDS = 2.5 - 5 - 30 Hz
All D2 speeds are much lower than A6 - & so far apart from each-other (MAX Vs MIN ratio 12 !!) that this time 5 speeds would have been better

EDIT: Replaced the Lo-Speed measurement with the correct one;



MECHANICS
Here lies the fundamental difference between the two:

D2 = Pulsating Device:
needles pulsate (a bit like our hearts

)


A6 = Oscillating Device:
needles oscillate (much like a mass on a spring);

As visible in the charts above, at the same needling speed / frequency the A6 needle stays in the skin longer, increasing pain & risk of transversal Tearing;

EDIT: the higher tearing risk was only theoretically evaluated due to the A6 longer penetration times, which in combination with fast lateral movement could elongate the holes - BUT I did NOT analyze my wounds to assess this and did NOT notice any consequences after healing;


CARTRIDGES
The Bayonet is identical and both cartridges fit both devices:


HOWEVER, D2's cartridge needles (right) are approx 1mm deeper than A6's (left)


Therefore:
A6 + D2-Needles = appr. 1mm DEEPER than set on device
(i.e. for 1.5mm you need to set it to 0.5mm);
D2 + A6-Needles = appr. 1mm SHALLOWER than set on device
(i.e. for 1.5mm you need to set it to 2.5mm);


ADVANTAGES
D2

• PAIN = Less (due to lower speeds);
• FLUIDITY = Better (needles don't get stuck while gliding);
• SPEED. RANGE = Wider (D2=12:1 Vs A6=1.4:1);
• TEARING = Lower Risk (briefer needle penetration time);

EDIT:
- FLAKING = disappeared (had plenty w/ A6);

A6

• PRICE = Cheaper (Unit & Cartridges);
• DELIVERY = Faster;
• DEPTH SETTING = Finer (A6=continuous Vs D2=0.25mm steps);
• WIRELESS (D2 = Wired);
• SPEED = Higher (less needling time for same wounding result);

EDIT:

• BAYONET = sturdy / durable ALU (D2 = Plastic & rotates past lock point if over-tightened);
• EASIER USAGE = depth wheel + power button (D2 = multiple menus & confirmations);

VERDICT
Prefer D2 cause the briefer needle penetration & lower speeds make it so much less painful that it's a game changer for me: @ the hairline had tears every time w/ A6, whereas w/ D2 enjoying & often find myself looking where else to Derminate...

On the other hand, more great responders use a Pen than a D2 - & A6's higher speeds mean shorter sessions for the same hole-count. Therefore - if you're a tough guy, A6 might well fit your bill! But most importantly, whatever your choice... stick with your destiny, embrace the pain & report your Results!

 

[Deleted member 1089]

It's over anyways.

 

[SquareChinOrDeath]

Can you show me the studies about IGF-1 promoting hair regrowth? Thanks.

Further Clinical Evidence for the Effect of IGF-1 on Hair Growth and Alopecia


1.Added low dose Melatonin at evening.
2. Found a good source of Procyanidin B-2, from the Apple Malus domestica (Hair pills on ebay).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Nordic...067137&hash=item2a5bdf76f6:g:fWsAAOSw4eNcxD1H (non ref)
3.Added Sandalore to the peppermint oil.

Hairloss and shed completely halted, Duta 3 month mark. Regrowth begins.


Thanks to @Sasaz2 I found this study in the thread he has posted:

Tissue injury can incidentally induce unexpected hair growth


This, and in addition to microneedling work the wnt signaling pathway, Procyanidin B-2 effect on wnt signaling as well.

This thread might just be the closest thing to a cure for male pattern baldness.


1.Topical Melatonin for Treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia (Oral Melatonin is great, make sure you keep half of the dose of what the Melatonin sleeping pills offer)

2. Annurca Apple Polyphenols Ignite Keratin Production in Hair Follicles by Inhibiting the Pentose Phosphate Pathway and Amino Acid Oxidation

WNT Inhibitory Activity of Malus Pumila miller cv Annurca and Malus domestica cv Limoncella Apple Extracts
YES!!


3. A synthetic sandalwood odorant induces wound-healing processes in human keratinocytes via the olfactory receptor OR2AT4

Olfactory receptor OR2AT4 regulates human hair growth
Sandalore is absolutely insanely good for our microneedling efforts.

 

[Deleted member 1751]

I want to try derma pen+ peppermint oil for a while and if it doesn't work, then I'd get on Fin . Is that ok?

 

[OCDMaxxing]

Further Clinical Evidence for the Effect of IGF-1 on Hair Growth and Alopecia


1.Added low dose Melatonin at evening.
2. Found a good source of Procyanidin B-2, from the Apple Malus domestica (Hair pills on ebay).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Nordic...067137&hash=item2a5bdf76f6:g:fWsAAOSw4eNcxD1H (non ref)
3.Added Sandalore to the peppermint oil.

Hairloss and shed completely halted, Duta 3 month mark. Regrowth begins.


Thanks to @Sasaz2 I found this study in the thread he has posted:

Tissue injury can incidentally induce unexpected hair growth


This, and in addition to microneedling work the wnt signaling pathway, Procyanidin B-2 effect on wnt signaling as well.

This thread might just be the closest thing to a cure for male pattern baldness.


1.Topical Melatonin for Treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia (Oral Melatonin is great, make sure you keep half of the dose of what the Melatonin sleeping pills offer)

2. Annurca Apple Polyphenols Ignite Keratin Production in Hair Follicles by Inhibiting the Pentose Phosphate Pathway and Amino Acid Oxidation

WNT Inhibitory Activity of Malus Pumila miller cv Annurca and Malus domestica cv Limoncella Apple Extracts
YES!!


3. A synthetic sandalwood odorant induces wound-healing processes in human keratinocytes via the olfactory receptor OR2AT4

Olfactory receptor OR2AT4 regulates human hair growth
Sandalore is absolutely insanely good for our microneedling efforts.

infos me

 

[DarknLost]

How are your experiences with fin? Any sides?

Your dick will fall off

 

[x30001]

Elab on Sandalore OP. It stops working when you stop applying it. You need to constantly agonise the OR2AT4 receptors. Are you taking it permanently and what are the long term effects?

 

[CupOfCoffee]

I want to try derma pen+ peppermint oil for a while and if it doesn't work, then I'd get on Fin . Is that ok?

Not if you're actually balding. You'd need to block the androgens from fucking your hair so you need an anti androgen like fin or alternative topicals

 

[Deleted member 1751]

Not if you're actually balding. You'd need to block the androgens from fucking your hair so you need an anti androgen like fin or alternative topicals

I'm not exactly balding or loosing my hair right now but i always had a long forehead / cranium. i want to lower it. If i start NW, I'll definitely jump to fin/ dut

 

[x30001]

RU mogs the sterides

 

[Carnivore]

HTs aren't cope, there's just a good chance you'll need 2-3 of them to add proper density. It usually doesn't turn out that amazing with just one procedure. It gets pretty expensive. I'll have my second one when it's been 12 months since my first one and by then I should have my hair fully back.

 

[x30001]

I'm not exactly balding or loosing my hair right now but i always had a long forehead / cranium. i want to lower it. If i start NW, I'll definitely jump to fin/ dut

If you're losing your hair due to MPB, all you can do is prevent and slow down the process. You can't reverse or get rid of the n.Reaper

 

[Deleted member 1751]

If you're losing your hair due to MPB, all you can do is prevent and slow down the process. You can't reverse or get rid of the n.Reaper

So Fin and dut are cope?

 

[Deleted member 1553]

'Peppermint oil' is major cope. HT and forehead reduction are both legit methods.

 

[x30001]

So Fin and dut are cope?

I don't know because I've never needed them but from what I've researched RU works great at systemically reducing DHT build up where applied rather than blocking 5AR non-selectively throughout your entire body (messing with your sex hormones)

 

[CupOfCoffee]

So Fin and dut are cope?

No they're effective. Dut is ridiculously strong tho so unless you don't give a fuck about DHT then stay away

 

[x30001]

No they're effective. Dut is ridiculously strong tho so unless you don't give a fuck about DHT then stay away

But why use them over RU58841? I guess RU58841 just doesn't work for some people then? Or some people really need to kill DHT as a prevention method since their hair follicles may be really sensitive to ANY DHT in the body.

 

[CupOfCoffee]

But why use them over RU58841? I guess RU58841 just doesn't work for some people then? Or some people really need to kill DHT as a prevention method since their hair follicles may be really sensitive to ANY DHT in the body.

Combination of RU or CB with an oral like fin will be the best way to keep your hair, many many people do this.

 

[OCDMaxxing]

So Fin and dut are cope?

No, they are a miracle. Especially DUT.

 

[Rimcel]

But why use them over RU58841? I guess RU58841 just doesn't work for some people then? Or some people really need to kill DHT as a prevention method since their hair follicles may be really sensitive to ANY DHT in the body.

For me Ru58 is way less effective than Fin. Even when I doubled Ru dosage

 

[x30001]

For me Ru58 is way less effective than Fin. Even when I doubled Ru dosage

Ah I see. I've used neither so I can't comment off experience. Would be cool to see RU regulated soon or atleast provided by some brand as a real treatment rather than a RC not for human use. You 100% sure yours was real and not underdosed?

 

[Sasaz2]

Ah I see. I've used neither so I can't comment off experience. Would be cool to see RU regulated soon or atleast provided by some brand as a real treatment rather than a RC not for human use. You 100% sure yours was real and not underdosed?

There's something similar that will hit the market in a few years, it's called Breezula or CB 03-01
It's also a topical and it seems effective

 

[Rimcel]

Ah I see. I've used neither so I can't comment off experience. Would be cool to see RU regulated soon or atleast provided by some brand as a real treatment rather than a RC not for human use. You 100% sure yours was real and not underdosed?

I bought it from anageninc. It comes with the purity report from the lab. And I ve mixed the solution myself

 

[x30001]

There's something similar that will hit the market in a few years, it's called Breezula or CB 03-01
It's also a topical and it seems effective

It's an anti androgen though, not just a 5AR inhibitor.

CB is like topical sprionolactone and RU is like topical fin/dut. Will be interesting to see more reports/results from CB.

 

[Deleted member 1106]

Did you recover from that dut shed?

 

[BigdickAverageEthnic]

It's been 6 months OP. Update us.

 

[OCDMaxxing]

OP roped.

 

[SquareChinOrDeath]

Did you recover from that dut shed?

Pre-dut balding and dut shed were absolutely fucking brutal.
3 and a half months after starting Dut I am beginning to see it's true power.

Finasteride is trash in comparison, just don't bother.

I should have started Dut two years ago. DO NOT DO THE SAME MISTAKE FINASTERIDE IS TRASH

It's been 6 months OP. Update us.

Absolutely insane hair regrowth. Will post progress pics in a few months.

OP roped.

Would have otherwise tbh ngl

 

[OCDMaxxing]

DUT UBER ALLES

 

[Rimcel]

Pre-dut balding and dut shed were absolutely fucking brutal.
3 and a half months after starting Dut I am beginning to see it's true power.

Finasteride is trash in comparison, just don't bother.

I should have started Dut two years ago. DO NOT DO THE SAME MISTAKE FINASTERIDE IS TRASH

Did you have any sides from dut?

Absolutely insane hair regrowth. Will post progress pics in a few months.



Would have otherwise tbh ngl

 

[Sasaz2]

Pre-dut balding and dut shed were absolutely fucking brutal.
3 and a half months after starting Dut I am beginning to see it's true power.

Finasteride is trash in comparison, just don't bother.

I should have started Dut two years ago. DO NOT DO THE SAME MISTAKE FINASTERIDE IS TRASH



Absolutely insane hair regrowth. Will post progress pics in a few months.



Would have otherwise tbh ngl

When you say shedding you mean
A lot of hair falls out but there is no impact on the apparence of hair since there is more growth to compensate?
Or
A lot of hair falls out and you are gaining norwoods levels temporary and you lose density?

 

[Mr manlet]

A lot of hair falls out and you are gaining norwoods levels temporary and you lose density?

That one.

 

[Sasaz2]

Pre-dut balding and dut shed were absolutely fucking brutal.
3 and a half months after starting Dut I am beginning to see it's true power.

Finasteride is trash in comparison, just don't bother.

I should have started Dut two years ago. DO NOT DO THE SAME MISTAKE FINASTERIDE IS TRASH



Absolutely insane hair regrowth. Will post progress pics in a few months.



Would have otherwise tbh ngl

Do you experience more bloating on dut thatn fin?
Have you some mental effect on your mood or concentration?
After this summer i will ask for fin to my derm, so i will see if i tolerate it .
Can you make a resume of your actual regimen and rate the things that you tried to see if there are cope or not
Thx for the inspiration brah

 

[Craxio]

Can we use it to grow eyebrows? Minoxidil fuck up my skin

 

[Deleted member 773]

Am I supposed to put the peppermint oil on raw or combine it with something else? When I put it on raw that shit burns, which is fine because its only for like 20 mins but I don't want to be doing it raw.

 

[Deleted member 773]

Are you sure peppermint oil doesn’t reduce collagen?

I was on minoxidil for 5 months and my skin was trash, even applying retin-a every fucking night didn’t do shit.

July 1st I quit minoxidil and by July 4th my skin was fucking beautiful. I had lost my gains but my skin was fucking perfect. July 5th I started peppermint oil and I have seen some hair return but my skin has gone down the shitter again. Acne everywhere, my scars look Moreno inflamed, dark circles around eyes. Haven’t stopped retin-a or anything.

 

[Wannabe6ft2]

Are you sure peppermint oil doesn’t reduce collagen?

I was on minoxidil for 5 months and my skin was trash, even applying retin-a every fucking night didn’t do shit.

July 1st I quit minoxidil and by July 4th my skin was fucking beautiful. I had lost my gains but my skin was fucking perfect. July 5th I started peppermint oil and I have seen some hair return but my skin has gone down the shitter again. Acne everywhere, my scars look Moreno inflamed, dark circles around eyes. Haven’t stopped retin-a or anything.

Suifuel tbh

 

[Deleted member 773]

Suifuel tbh

I'm trying to find a balance, man.

It seems like you have to choose between hair or collagen.

I've lived with low collagen for 5 months and believe me, it's trash. I'm putting on peppermint oil every OTHER day now and I think my skin is getting a bit better while still regrowing some hairline follicles.

I'm curious to see how the 2.5mm dermapen will do. RIght now I'm using a 0.5mm roller.

 

[SquareChinOrDeath]

This is it boys! Hairloss has finally COMPLETELY HALTED , Dutasteride is a MUST. Finasteride is trash.
Remember when you take Dutasteride you must take Indole-3-carbinol to prevent gynecomacia.

Melatonin, Sandalore and Procyanidin B-2 are providing great results.

Melatonin is cheap and great for overall life quality, better sleep.
Sandalore added to the 10% peppermint oil solution, again very easy.


Although I do get insane regrowth, I am not completely satisfied with the regrowth on my temples, and after doing bloodwork and checking my IGF-1 levels I found out that my IGF-1 levels are 160 ng/ml, which is too low for my age (I'm in my mid 20's), I have decided to start taking MK-677 and supplementing with Selenium. I will probably take 20mg MK-677 every night before I go to sleep and 600mcgs Selenium taken with some Iodine (Seaweed).

I don't think that I need a PGD-2 (Prostaglandin D2) blocker because I have already blocked DHT completely using Dutasteride.
So right now I am currently looking into PGE-2 (Prostagladin E2 aka dinoprostone) powder for topical use after using the microneedling pen, and possibly daily.

I will keep you guys updated, best wishes to you all!

 

[Mindcel]

Could some one tell my what the Hylauronic Acid does, and whats the benfit of it?
Thank you

 

[x30001]

FIRST AND FOREMOST: Hair transplants are major copes because they do not properly make your scalp regrow it's follicles all the way down to the lower dermis.
Follicle contact between upper and lower dermis is neccessary for hair regrowth to take place, DHT blocks these channels.

If you are balding get these (all non ref):


1. Finasteride 1mg pills, cut in half. (See your doctor)


2.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dr-Pen-Der...h=item33d03301ad:g:btgAAOSw5SZZjZy8:rk:1:pf:0

and these 42 Pin cartriges:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/222740807422

3.

Peppermint oil:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Peppermint-100-Pure-Essential-Oil-10ml-25ml-50ml-100ml-500ml-1litre/191574022705?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=490651874113&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

4.

Not too strong hyaluronic acid:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KNIYEA-10M...h=item3b0ec45af4:g:VBcAAOSwAOdbLgDm:rk:1:pf:0

5.

Minoxidil:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kirkland-M...h=item23904c618f:g:uz0AAOSwv8FZ4531:rk:4:pf:0

6.(optional, antifungal)
Ketoconazole anti-dandruff shampoo. Use sparingly and rarely, unless you suffer from very dry scalp and very bad dandruff then follow what it says on the leaflet.


Procedures:


Once every 1-2 weeks:
Shower and throughly shampoo hair and scalp. Pat towel dry hair, keep scalp wet. Apply a bit of rubbing alcohol on your scalp.
Set the Dr Pen to 2.5mm and highest speed possible for minimum pain, insert sanitized 42Pin cartridge.
Anything less than 2mm is cope. You need upper follicles to make contact with lower follicles by destroying the DHT in between and damaging the lower dermis follicles (This is the most importent part in hair regrowth).
Run that shit on your temples and even on your forehead, this will lower your hairline.
Keep your scalp and hair wet when you run the pen to prevent hair and skin tearing and minimize pain. (You can always add some water on top during the proccess)
Carefully wash head with a cool and soft water stream to wash all of the blood off.

Apply a tiny bit of Hyaluronic acid on the penetrated areas.
Wait for it to absorb.

You should feel a hot burning sensation. This is the inflammation starting to take effect and the scalp begins it's natural rejuvenation/restructure of particles.

Apply Peppermint oil.

(Peppermint oil > Minoxidil when it comes to hair regrowth but I use both)


Daily:
0.5mg Finasteride.
Peppermint oil.


Twice a day:
0.5ml Minoxidil. Do not extend 0.5ml or the alcohol will dry your scalp.
DO NOT USE MINOXIDIL ATLEAST 12 HOURS AFTER YOU'VE USED DR PEN, as this will increase systematic absorbation and side effects.
You really only need the Minox to work topically.


(Optional) Once a few days to once a week to once a few weeks:
Ketoconazole shampoo this can help clean the scalp from fungi. DO NOT USE KETOCONAZOLE SHAMPOO 48 HOURS BEFORE AND 48 HOURS AFTER YOU'VE USED DR PEN. The Ketoconazole shampoo prevents the inflammation of the scalp which is neccessary for natural restructure of follicles.



All of the data above is from scientific studies and personal two month experience. Sorry but I'm too low effort to roll back and find links to these studies.
I have already lowered my hairline and temples and I may post before / after pics at 6 month mark, the results will be absolutely insane.

How is the sandalore? working well?

 

[Lorsss]

Set the Dr Pen to 2.5mm and highest speed possible for minimum pain,
Keep your scalp and hair wet when you run the pen to minimize pain. (You can always add some water on top during the proccess)

 

[SquareChinOrDeath]

How is the sandalore? working well?

Sandalore sped up growth significantly, do add to your stack.

Could some one tell my what the Hylauronic Acid does, and whats the benfit of it?
Thank you

Hyaluronic Acid to be used shortly after Dr Pen to absorb more fluid into the scalp so that throughout the week it helps keep it moist on the inside.

 

[x30001]

Sandalore sped up growth significantly, do add to your stack.



Hyaluronic Acid to be used shortly after Dr Pen to absorb more fluid into the scalp so that throughout the week it helps keep it moist on the inside.

Not yet

 

[SquareChinOrDeath]

View attachment 82616

Good sig would train more neck/10

 

[Mindcel]

Sandalore sped up growth significantly, do add to your stack.



Hyaluronic Acid to be used shortly after Dr Pen to absorb more fluid into the scalp so that throughout the week it helps keep it moist on the inside.

Where do you find Sandalore? You reccomend a vendor?