Sfs at 15

[AronnMtn]

I posted a rating yesterday, and 2 people brought up that i have sfs, i continued to research and compare myself and the symptoms, and i can confidently say i do have it, i have the hollow eyes, i have the prominent chin and smile lines, and the shorter vertical, and horizontal growth of the mandible, plus i might have tmj, all this is self diagnosed, i cant say much ab tmj, but the sfs is pretty stern, i cant unsee it and i now have unwavering body dysmorphia

 

[AronnMtn]

Bump

 

[AronnMtn]

Bump

 

[AronnMtn]

bump

 

[mikeperry271]

can be saved with double jaw surgery

 

[AronnMtn]

can be saved with double jaw surgery

idk, im willing to do anything at any age to remove it, i will refuse to destroy my potential with this

 

[diditeverbegin]

Can you see your upper teeth when you smile. And do you have slight gum show?
@Snicket

 

[AronnMtn]

i can see my teeth but no gum show, my smile is horrendous, i usually steer away from smiling in pictures

 

[mikeperry271]

i can see my teeth but no gum show, my smile is horrendous, i usually steer away from smiling in pictures

show a pic of your face

 

[AronnMtn]

Can you see your upper teeth when you smile. And do you have slight gum show?
@Snicket

the top is my jaw, the bottom is the jaw of someone with sfs, i think they look similar alot

 

[AronnMtn]

show a pic of your face

 

[Snicket]

Can you see your upper teeth when you smile. And do you have slight gum show?
@Snicket

I have partial upper teeth exposure and no gum show.

 

[mikeperry271]

View attachment 3646574View attachment 3646578

looks like sfs indeed
you're still young so you wont be getting any surgery anytime soon
if you want real advice, go to an orthodontist

 

[AronnMtn]

I have partial upper teeth exposure and no gum show.

is that good or bad?

 

[superpsycho]

i cant unsee it and i now have unwavering body dysmorphia

same

 

[AronnMtn]

looks like sfs indeed
you're still young so you wont be getting any surgery anytime soon
if you want real advice, go to an orthodontist

yea im planning on going this week, i want it gone, if not able to get surgery, then what can be done for it now?

 

[superpsycho]

brutal

 

[AronnMtn]

brutal

very brutal, i dont look so bad still, but it would ascend me alot if i got rid of it, so i am willing to do anything surgery to fix it

 

[mikeperry271]

yea im planning on going this week, i want it gone, if not able to get surgery, then what can be done for it now?

maybe some braces, but it's unlikely that that will fix the issue
they need to move your jaws slightly down and forward

 

[AronnMtn]

maybe some braces, but it's unlikely that that will fix the issue
they need to move your jaws slightly down and forward

ive already gotten braces twice, ig really would need surgery, do u know why orthodontist dont say anything about this?

 

[diditeverbegin]

I have partial upper teeth exposure and no gum show.

Yeah, that is how you diagnose sfs.

 

[diditeverbegin]

View attachment 3646570View attachment 3646571

the top is my jaw, the bottom is the jaw of someone with sfs, i think they look similar alot

Show your smile

 

[Snicket]

ive already gotten braces twice, ig really would need surgery, do u know why orthodontist dont say anything about this?

Take a picture of yourself smiling right now.

 

[NoaA99]

When you smile, are your upper teeth barely visible? Be honest. I am actually diagnosed with a SFS, and just about half of my teeth are visible when smiling (in the vertical dimension). This is an indication for SFS.

 

[mikeperry271]

ive already gotten braces twice, ig really would need surgery, do u know why orthodontist dont say anything about this?

because orthodontists just focus on your bite/smile.
here's a pic what you could look like with more downward and forward growth:

 

[Snicket]

When you smile, are your upper teeth barely visible? Be honest. I am actually diagnosed with a SFS, and just about half of my teeth are visible when smiling (in the vertical dimension). This is an indication for SFS.

A healthy maxilla is meant to grow forwards and downwards.
True class 3s have both vertical and sagittal deficiency.

 

[NoaA99]

A healthy maxilla is meant to grow forwards and downwards.
True class 3s have both vertical and sagittal deficiency.

Based on his pictures, the worst-case scenario seems to be a rather mild form of SFS.

 

[Snicket]

Based on his pictures, the worst-case scenario seems to be a rather mild form of SFS.

Yes. SFS has becomes something of a buzzword around here.
When you have moderate SFS, it looks like absolute shit and OP would be saying something really bad was up.
I.e. "I have a terrible smile"

 

[NoaA99]

Yes. SFS has becomes something of a buzzword around here.
When you have moderate SFS, it looks like absolute shit and OP would be saying something really bad was up.
I.e. "I have a terrible smile"

Exactly, if it were more severe, he’d appear much more child-like and compressed/ Squished in the vertical dimension.
In real life, no one would even notice anything off.

 

[mikeperry271]

Yes. SFS has becomes something of a buzzword around here.
When you have moderate SFS, it looks like absolute shit and OP would be saying something really bad was up.
I.e. "I have a terrible smile"

what other reasons than having a short or recessed maxilla significantly influence having a bad smile?
bad smile in terms of e.g. low teeth show and not yellow or crooked teeth.

 

[mikeperry271]

Exactly, if it were more severe, he’d appear much more child-like and compressed/ Squished in the vertical dimension.
In real life, no one would even notice anything off.

it's indeed not severe, but his lower third is clearly short and not ideal

 

[Snicket]

what other reasons than having a short or recessed maxilla significantly influence having a bad smile?

That's a very broad question

bad smile in terms of e.g. low teeth show and not yellow or crooked teeth.

Poor tooth show is due to a vertically deficient maxilla.
Yellow teeth are due to lack of proper dental care or poor enamel genetics - not sure it has anything to do with craniofacial development.
Crooked teeth are usually caused by over-crowding, which means the palate is not wide enough.
I.e. the teeth don't have enough space to grow properly.

 

[mikeperry271]

That's a very broad question

I know, but my point is more that having a good smile is normal.
So not having a good smile is very likely due to bone structure that's not 'normal'.
Thus, if you have a bad smile, you're probably a canditate for jaw surgery.

 

[NoaA99]

OP should visit a maxillofacial surgeon to discuss the issue, as there can be multiple causes of short face syndrome, not just one.

Here’s an actual severe case for comparison. Notice how, even when smiling, a large portion of his teeth remains covered in the vertical dimension.

 

[mikeperry271]

OP should visit a maxillofacial surgeon to discuss the issue, as there can be multiple causes of short face syndrome, not just one.

True, but in all of these cases, he probably needs to have surgery

 

[Snicket]

I know, but my point is more that having a good smile is normal.

What is a normal smile? 6-8 tooth show? A good smile is at 10-12.

So not having a good smile is very likely due to bone structure that's not 'normal'.

As a general rule, I would agree.

Thus, if you have a bad smile, you're probably a canditate for jaw surgery.

That would assume that anyone who has a bad smile has jaw retrusion, which is not always the case but likely.

 

[Snicket]

OP should visit a maxillofacial surgeon to discuss the issue, as there can be multiple causes of short face syndrome, not just one.

Here’s an actual severe case for comparison. Notice how, even when smiling, a large portion of his teeth remains covered in the vertical dimension.

He is one of the best jaw surgery transformations.
The guy also lucked out with decent upper maxillary projection so fixing the jaws was adding the last piece of the jigsaw puzzle.

 

[NoaA99]

That's a very broad question

Poor tooth show is due to a vertically deficient maxilla.
Yellow teeth are due to lack of proper dental care or poor enamel genetics - not sure it has anything to do with craniofacial development.
Crooked teeth are usually caused by over-crowding, which means the palate is not wide enough.
I.e. the teeth don't have enough space to grow properly.

I don’t think so, I’ve never heard of any direct connection here.

My maxilla is recessed/ underdeveloped in the sagittal, lateral, and vertical dimensions. Typically, these types of growth issues don’t occur in isolation, since the body grows as a whole.

If there’s a size discrepancy in either of your jaws, your teeth will gradually crowd or shift to ensure a functional bite.

 

[mikeperry271]

A good smile is at 10-12

yes and I would even argue how much of the length of your teeth are shown.

That would assume that anyone who has a bad smile has jaw retrusion, which is not always the case.

what other reasons would there be? Can you give some examples?

 

[AronnMtn]

That's a very broad question

Poor tooth show is due to a vertically deficient maxilla.
Yellow teeth are due to lack of proper dental care or poor enamel genetics - not sure it has anything to do with craniofacial development.
Crooked teeth are usually caused by over-crowding, which means the palate is not wide enough.
I.e. the teeth don't have enough space to grow properly.

yea my teeth in the bottom are slightly crooked in the front, my smile is horrendous, i never smile anymore after seeing how bad my smile is

 

[AronnMtn]

because orthodontists just focus on your bite/smile.
here's a pic what you could look like with more downward and forward growth:
View attachment 3646602

i get normally rated htn, if fixed my sfs, what would i be?

 

[mikeperry271]

i get normally rated htn, if fixed my sfs, what would i be?

that morph is easily cl

 

[Snicket]

yes and I would even argue how much of the length of your teeth are shown.

what other reasons would there be? Can you give some examples?

Generally someone with overcrowding also has some form of jaw retrusion as well but that's not always the case.
You can sometimes have good sagittal development of the maxilla but poor horizontal growth or vice versa.
I.e. Properly developed jaws but a narrow smile and the opposite way round.

As a general rule, I think you're right, I'm just saying that as with most things, these are guiding principles and there are caveats.

 

[Snicket]

i get normally rated htn, if fixed my sfs, what would i be?

Take a picture of yourself smiling first and we can judge your sfs severity.
You look mild.

 

[mikeperry271]

Generally someone with overcrowding also some form of jaw retrusion as well but that's not always the case.
You can sometimes have good sagittal development of the maxilla but poor horizontal growth or vice versa.
I.e. Properly developed jaws but a narrow smile and the opposite way round.

As a general rule, I think you're right, I'm just saying that as with most things, these are guiding principles and there are caveats.

Yes, I agree.
I generalized in my statement, but I guess you got my point.

 

[Lawton88]

....

 

[AronnMtn]

Take a picture of yourself smiling first and we can judge your sfs severity.
You look mild.

this is what i look like when i smile, clear reason why i hate my smile and i never smile in public or in pictures

 

[Snicket]

Yes, I agree.
I generalized in my statement, but I guess you got my point.

Thing is, caveats matter in high precision surgeries!

 

[AronnMtn]

You don't need surgery.

why not? i do have sfs, and surgery is the only way to fix it

 

[Snicket]

View attachment 3646670
this is what i look like when i smile, clear reason why i hate my smile and i never smile in public or in pictures

Yep. Mild SFS as I thought. Do you have to really strain your mouth to get that amount of tooth show?