Sfs at 15

[FiendFiend]

I posted a rating yesterday, and 2 people brought up that i have sfs, i continued to research and compare myself and the symptoms, and i can confidently say i do have it, i have the hollow eyes, i have the prominent chin and smile lines, and the shorter vertical, and horizontal growth of the mandible, plus i might have tmj, all this is self diagnosed, i cant say much ab tmj, but the sfs is pretty stern, i cant unsee it and i now have unwavering body dysmorphia

wdym sfs at 15. one of ur parents has sfs. sfs isnt like a recession thats just the shape of ur skull and cuz ur fat

 

[NoaA99]

damn man that's a lot for a non surgical device

Great that it helped with breathing. I would deffo get that checked man.
Are you still planning on doing bimax? Maybe outside of Germany, since it's not covered?

Yeah, Munich is brutal, but I wanted to do it in Germany.

By the time I go through with it, I’ll probably be around 27-28.
It would cost at least 20 000 € here in Germany, though, so I might consider going abroad for it.

 

[diditeverbegin]

wdym sfs at 15. one of ur parents has sfs. sfs isnt like a recession thats just the shape of ur skull and cuz ur fat

Sfs is the lack of proper maxillary vertical growth

 

[mikeperry271]

Yeah, Munich is brutal, but I wanted to do it in Germany.

By the time I go through with it, I’ll probably be around 27-28.
It would cost at least 20 000 € here in Germany, though, so I might consider going abroad for it.

Understandable. How long does an MSE process take altogether? I heard SARPE only takes weeks till months.

20k is around average in Europe. However, I heard some stories about Brazil and the results seem great. Don't know the exact prices tho.

 

[FiendFiend]

Sfs is the lack of proper maxillary vertical growth

is it? cuz im pretty sure barrett had it, and i had it and i just had to cut an insane amount of bf % and stop clenching my teeth together which i did for some reason jfl.

 

[diditeverbegin]

is it? cuz im pretty sure barrett had it, and i had it and i just had to cut an insane amount of bf % and stop clenching my teeth together which i did for some reason jfl.

Bruh sfs is not the same as having a short face

 

[NoaA99]

Understandable. How long does an MSE process take altogether? I heard SARPE only takes weeks till months.

20k is around average in Europe. However, I heard some stories about Brazil and the results seem great. Don't know the exact prices tho.

I started at 24 and I’m still in the later parts of Invisalign treatment. I had a few complications that dragged things out, though.
Part of my orbital bone fractured slightly due to the pressure from the MSE, so I had to stop the process prematurely at just 7,8mm, instead of 11mm.
I also experienced some relapse, so overall, I’m honestly not fully satisfied with the outcome.

The thing is, the language barrier and the distance could be a real issue if complications arise. If I go through with such an invasive surgery, I’d rather be located close to my surgeon in case any problems come up

 

[mikeperry271]

I started at 24 and I’m still in the later parts of Invisalign treatment. I had a few complications that dragged things out, though.
Part of my orbital bone fractured slightly due to the pressure from the MSE, so I had to stop the process prematurely at just 7,8mm, instead of 11mm.
I also experienced some relapse, so overall, I’m honestly not fully satisfied with the outcome.

Would you have rather gone for sarpe looking back at it?

The thing is, the language barrier and the distance could be a real issue if complications arise. If I go through with such an invasive surgery, I’d rather be located close to my surgeon in case any problems come up

Again very understandable.

 

[AronnMtn]

wdym sfs at 15. one of ur parents has sfs. sfs isnt like a recession thats just the shape of ur skull and cuz ur fat

yea my mom has sfs

 

[NoaA99]

Would you have rather gone for sarpe looking back at it?


Again very understandable.

No, age is a factor when it comes to MSE, and the significant improvements in nasal breathing wouldn’t have been possible with SARPE.
So even though I’m not entirely satisfied with the results, I’d still choose to do it the same way again.

 

[slater.sfs]

I have a brachy skull and I'm still chadlite so does tom welling it doesn't really matter a whole lot

 

[narutoer]

Can you see your upper teeth when you smile. And do you have slight gum show?
@Snicket

what does this mean?

 

[AronnMtn]

what does this mean?

when you smile, do your upper teeth show alot in your smile, and can u see your upper gums

 

[diditeverbegin]

what does this mean?

when you smile, do your upper teeth show alot in your smile, and can u see your upper gums

That's how you diagnose true sfs

 

[Genea776]

I'd be wary of doing bimax if I was you, for SFS they pull the jaws down and you'd end up with the chin to philtrum ratio being comically high.

Right now it's 3.08 (ideal is around 2.5-2.8), if you were to get a bimax for SFS the philtrum will stay the same length but the chin will get taller, so you'd end up with this ratio fucked into oblivion.

 

[Genea776]

How many mm is your philtrum? It must be like 10 mm judging from the pics

 

[AronnMtn]

That's how you diagnose true sfs

I'd be wary of doing bimax if I was you, for SFS they pull the jaws down and you'd end up with the chin to philtrum ratio being comically high.
View attachment 3652821

Right now it's 3.08 (ideal is around 2.5-2.8), if you were to get a bimax for SFS the philtrum will stay the same length but the chin will get taller, so you'd end up with this ratio fucked into oblivion.

bimax? i thought the recommended surgery for sfs is lefort 1 with bsso

 

[Genea776]

bimax? i thought the recommended surgery for sfs is lefort 1 with bsso

Bimax = Le Fort I + BSSO, it's the same thing

On second thought, I guess they could maybe bring the jaws down and decide what to do with chin, if it's gonna end up too tall then they can always shave it a little bit / do impaction, or just don't do chin downgrafting at all. But it seems like a tricky case cause your jaws look ok from front/side and the main issue here is the tooth show when smiling.

 

[AronnMtn]

Bimax = Le Fort I + BSSO, it's the same thing

On second thought, I guess they could maybe bring the jaws down and decide what to do with chin, if it's gonna end up too tall then they can always shave it a little bit / do impaction, or just don't do chin downgrafting at all. But it seems like a tricky case cause your jaws look ok from front/side and the main issue here is the tooth show when smiling.

oh mb i didnt kmow they were the same thing, does my jaw not look too short tho?

 

[Genea776]

oh mb i didnt kmow they were the same thing, does my jaw not look too short tho?

I don't think so, the thing is that your nose is more striking as it's big and it's creating a sort of illusion that the jaw is small even tough it's not.
The short philtrum is fine here, if it was longer your midface would take up the majority of your face.
Big nose + short philtrum is good
Small nose + regular philtrum (like up to 15 mm) is also good
Mixing them together is what would break the balance, e.g. big nose + regular philtrum or small nose + short philtrum

But that being said I think you have a tricky case for bimax, cause the downgraft would make the chin appear larger (even with no genioplasty). Imagine you end up with like 10 mm philtrum and 40 mm chin, I wonder what would look like.

O'Pry has like 2.85-3.0 chin to philtrum ratio depending on the angle of pic, and he has short philtrum yet his is still longer than yours.

 

[AronnMtn]

I don't think so, the thing is that your nose is more striking as it's big and it's creating a sort of illusion that the jaw is small even tough it's not.
The short philtrum is fine here, if it was longer your midface would take up the majority of your face.
Big nose + short philtrum is good
Small nose + regular philtrum (like up to 15 mm) is also good
Mixing them together is what would break the balance, e.g. big nose + regular philtrum or small nose + short philtrum

But that being said I think you have a tricky case for bimax, cause the downgraft would make the chin appear larger (even with no genioplasty). Imagine you end up with like 10 mm philtrum and 40 mm chin, I wonder what would look like.

O'Pry has like 2.85-3.0 chin to philtrum ratio depending on the angle of pic, and he has short philtrum yet his is still longer than yours.

interesting, so what ur saying is i shouldnt get the bimax? i just wanted to get it bc of a longer ramus, and not such a slat mandibular plane, and that weird prominent chin, someone said if got it, i could be chadlite

 

[Genea776]

Also all the SFS cases I've seen (including mine) also had some advancement, but on your side profile it looks like you have above average forward growth already. Surgeons could just say no to advancement so as to not give you monkey face / dog face.
But if you were to get only downgrafting with no advancement, the step-offs in the mandible could look weird

interesting, so what ur saying is i shouldnt get the bimax? i just wanted to get it bc of a longer ramus, and not such a slat mandibular plane, and that weird prominent chin, someone said if got it, i could be chadlite

I'm saying that you have interesting ratios.
I've just took another look at your smile pic and I think you'd probably only need something like 2-4 mm downgraft, as you already have like 50% of tooth show right now.
2-4 mm is not much and I don't think it'd make a drastic difference. Not much place for movement in the chin either I think, due to the already high philtrum to chin ratio.
Obviously it would be an improvement but I doubt it'd be anywhere near the Alfaro's ascension on Gustavo or some of the Raffaini's SFS ascensions.

 

[xnj]

I posted a rating yesterday, and 2 people brought up that i have sfs, i continued to research and compare myself and the symptoms, and i can confidently say i do have it, i have the hollow eyes, i have the prominent chin and smile lines, and the shorter vertical, and horizontal growth of the mandible, plus i might have tmj, all this is self diagnosed, i cant say much ab tmj, but the sfs is pretty stern, i cant unsee it and i now have unwavering body dysmorphia

what diagnosis lol sfs is just any tfwhr below 1.3 or so
either way im sorry to hear that

 

[AronnMtn]

Also all the SFS cases I've seen (including mine) also had some advancement, but on your side profile it looks like you have above average forward growth already. Surgeons could just say no to advancement so as to not give you monkey face / dog face.
But if you were to get only downgrafting with no advancement, the step-offs in the mandible could look weird

I'm saying that you have interesting ratios.
I've just took another look at your smile pic and I think you'd probably only need something like 2-4 mm downgraft, as you already have like 50% of tooth show right now.
2-4 mm is not much and I don't think it'd make a drastic difference. Not much place for movement in the chin either I think, due to the already high philtrum to chin ratio.
Obviously it would be an improvement but I doubt it'd be anywhere near the Alfaro's ascension on Gustavo or some of the Raffaini's SFS ascensions.

so it would be doing more bad than good is what im reading, if so, that’s unfortunate , i was hoping it would ascend me

 

[diditeverbegin]

bimax? i thought the recommended surgery for sfs is lefort 1 with bsso

That is bimax bro
Sfs is downgrafting bimax

 

[AronnMtn]

That is bimax bro
Sfs is downgrafting bimax

yes i know that now, the guy talkinh to me saying the bimax might make me look weird, now im scared to even consider it

 

[diditeverbegin]

yes i know that now, the guy talkinh to me saying the bimax might make me look weird, now im scared to even consider it

If you jaw is already in front of you cranium/forehead don't even think about bimax probably

 

[AronnMtn]

so

If you jaw is already in front of you cranium/forehead don't even think about bimax probably

i should just leave the sfs alone?

 

[diditeverbegin]

so

i should just leave the sfs alone?

Did you post your smile?

 

[diditeverbegin]

so

i should just leave the sfs alone?

Oh shit it's you, can get cw rotation i think to fix it

 

[AronnMtn]

Oh shit it's you, can get cw rotation i think to fix it

so… should i get the bimax??

 

[diditeverbegin]

so… should i get the bimax??

Yea but you don't want much advancement. A genioplasty would give you better roi probably

 

[AronnMtn]

Yea but you don't want much advancement. A genioplasty would give you better roi probably

whats roi, and would the genio extend my jaw? and fix the mandibular plane?

 

[diditeverbegin]

whats roi, and would the genio extend my jaw? and fix the mandibular plane?

Return on investment
A genio could make ur chin taller

 

[narutoer]

That's how you diagnose true sfs

well my gums dont show, i got sfs?

 

[AronnMtn]

well my gums dont show, i got sfs?

i need a pic of ur jaw side profile

 

[narutoer]

i need a pic of ur jaw side profile

this pic good?

 

[AronnMtn]

this pic good?

preferably closer like this

 

[narutoer]

preferably closer like thisView attachment 3653421

preferably closer like thisView attachment 3653421

 

[diditeverbegin]

preferably closer like thisView attachment 3653421

You can't use a side profile to tell due to how a bite can also affect the profile

 

[diditeverbegin]

well my gums dont show, i got sfs?

You have a photo?

 

[slaters]

I posted a rating yesterday, and 2 people brought up that i have sfs, i continued to research and compare myself and the symptoms, and i can confidently say i do have it, i have the hollow eyes, i have the prominent chin and smile lines, and the shorter vertical, and horizontal growth of the mandible, plus i might have tmj, all this is self diagnosed, i cant say much ab tmj, but the sfs is pretty stern, i cant unsee it and i now have unwavering body dysmorphia

Your SFS isnt terrible I’ve seen death tier SFs irl
I know someone that took viagra before their sleep apnea diagnosis to get a higher change at it getting insured, which worked
If u wanna put that in ur notes for the future

 

[AronnMtn]

Your SFS isnt terrible I’ve seen death tier SFs irl
I know someone that took viagra before their sleep apnea diagnosis to get a higher change at it getting insured, which worked
If u wanna put that in ur notes for the future

viagra? how would that help me get insured? plus ima be so honest, my sfs causes me 0 harm, atleast that i know of, i dont have sleep apnea, my mom has it and she has sfs but she keeps denying that she has it, but as far as i know, i dont have sleep apnea

 

[AronnMtn]

You can't use a side profile to tell due to how a bite can also affect the profile

well i was able to easily tell if Mads Mikkelsen had sfs, which he does, just by looking at his side profile jaw, it shares all the same characteristics as mine

 

[slaters]

viagra? how would that help me get insured? plus ima be so honest, my sfs causes me 0 harm, atleast that i know of, i dont have sleep apnea, my mom has it and she has sfs but she keeps denying that she has it, but as far as i know, i dont have sleep apnea

If u time it right it’ll fuck ur sleep
Giving the illusion that your sleep apneas worse than it actually is
Idk some clinics might test if u try to fraud it idk tho

 

[AronnMtn]

If u time it right it’ll fuck ur sleep
Giving the illusion that your sleep apneas worse than it actually is
Idk some clinics might test if u try to fraud it idk tho

and they cant see that u have a hard on from the viagra? or see that the viagra is in ur system somehow

 

[diditeverbegin]

well i was able to easily tell if Mads Mikkelsen had sfs, which he does, just by looking at his side profile jaw, it shares all the same characteristics as mine

How does he have sfs?

 

[slaters]

and they cant see that u have a hard on from the viagra? or see that the viagra is in ur system somehow

Lmao people use it as preworkout it isn’t an instant boner pill
and yeah it worked for my friend but idk if doctors are specifically looking for people trying to fraud sleep apnea

Also the younger u are the less noticeable it is, you might have it down the road if your mom has sleep apnea unless her SFS is 30x worse than yours

Also viagra won’t automatically give u sleep apnea it just fucks your sleep a little bit

My friend wasn’t blackpilled or anything he just genuinely needed surgery but his insurance was shit so did anything he could to get surgery

 

[AronnMtn]

How does he have sfs?

well someone suspected he did and asked me if he does, its in the thread if u look for it, and his jaw structure from what i see, looks like sfs, plus i belive its possible to diagnose it based off the structure, thats how i found out i had it, and my friends even notice it when they see my side profile

 

[AronnMtn]

Lmao people use it as preworkout it isn’t an instant boner pill
and yeah it worked for my friend but idk if doctors are specifically looking for people trying to fraud sleep apnea

Also the younger u are the less noticeable it is, you might have it down the road if your mom has sleep apnea unless her SFS is 30x worse than yours

Also viagra won’t automatically give u sleep apnea it just fucks your sleep a little bit

My friend wasn’t blackpilled or anything he just genuinely needed surgery but his insurance was shit so did anything he could to get surgery

okay well it sucks that if im younger its less detectable, but my mom has it and its pretty bad for her, shes just in denial of it all for some reason, but she has already told me that i snore when i sleep, and jm only 15, plus i do have daytime sleepiness alottt, it says that its one of the symptoms