Solving a long midface in it’s root cause as much as possible

[SeriousAscension]

I'm new here. Should I have made any mistakes I apologize. Only serous responses please.

After a thorough analysis of my facial ratios, I came to the conclusion that my main problem is my long midface of a midface ratio of 0.85. After examining my medical history, this may happened through mouth breathing, which caused the upper jaw to move backwards and grow downwards. The long midface due to the recessed maxilla disturbs a large part of my facial ratios. However, this also says a lot about the massive aesthetic potential that the improvement of the maxillary position in terms of bringing it more upwards and forwards entails. That's what's really holds me back.

After looking up several options I came to the conclusion that only a le fort 3 CCW or a high cut le fort 1 CCW + a modified le fort 3 CCW could in my initial situation (I’m above 25) solve this problem noticeable. I know and considering the risks associated with a le fort 3 CCW, but I think in my case it is the most sensible solution according to the problem I like to address.
I strive to get a midface ratio of 1:1 ideally 1:1.05. With le fort 3 CCW that would be in my opinion best achievable, because it would solve a variety of other problems related to the eye area and the nose shape better, than a modified lefort 3 + high cut lefort 1 in comparison. I prefer to get a full on lefort 3 CCW. I would remove the scars with PRF, fraxel lasers and chemical peelings later. Getting more facial width would not solve it in its root cause. This would only camouflage it.

The problem I see here is that almost no surgeon performs these upper jaw surgeries unless there is a clear facial deformity that causes massive health problems. Despite this, I've read about some accessions that have managed to get invasive procedures (not a le fort 3), although they don't have any severe health syndromes (e.g. @CosmicMaxxer).

How do you go about convincing a surgeon to do a full on le fort 3 CCW? Do you know surgeons that would be more willing to do a full on le fort 3 CCW or may have a more open ear for this? I respect your privacy and will not disclose who gave me the information. You can also DM me if you prefer. I respect that.

I was a bit lurking around in this forum and below I'm tagging some people who I have the impression that are knowledgeable/experienced in problems of this kind
@retard, @SayNoToRotting, @Sergio-OMS, @RealSurgerymax, @orthochadic, @MedMaxxing, @ropeandcope, @pizza, @noprogressno

Thank you for your time, I appreciate it. If you know other users, that can give serious contribution to solve this problem in it’s root cause as much as possible (no camouflaging) please tag them.

 

[Deleted member 26859]

i cant believe we have to resort to expensive af life threatening face breaking bone drilling surgeries just to get ideal facial ratios so an average woman can maybe love us

 

[Ragnar]

how old are you?

 

[Deleted member 21765]

just buy a mouthguard and bite on it hard especially with the anterior part, obv only with good occlusion. No sane surgeon will do a LF3 are you crazy?

 

[LiteralCaucasian]

I strive to get a midface ratio of 1:1 ideally 1:1.05.

Meh, even 1.90 is OK.

 

[khvirgin]

No one would do a LF3, not even modified, because your midface is "Long"
Maybe if you pay him way more than normal and he has no ethics (but at that point why even do it)

 

[gribsufer1]

thumbpull.

 

[SeriousAscension]

@Ragnar I'm 27. @FrameMaxxed I was already considering DIY approaches like mewing and hard gum chewing and after 1.5 years there was no change to my midface ratio. I don’t think chewing or mewing will help especially in my age with this specific problem. I know of results from mewing and/or chewing even older than my age, but unfounately the midface ratio didn’t changed noticeable much. I measured it in several before and afters. I learned about MSE with a Facemask but this would not achieve much CCW due to the resistance of the upper third.

 

[JawGuyFatFaceGuy]

I'm new here. Should I have made any mistakes I apologize. Only serous responses please.

After a thorough analysis of my facial ratios, I came to the conclusion that my main problem is my long midface of a midface ratio of 0.85. After examining my medical history, this may happened through mouth breathing, which caused the upper jaw to move backwards and grow downwards. The long midface due to the recessed maxilla disturbs a large part of my facial ratios. However, this also says a lot about the massive aesthetic potential that the improvement of the maxillary position in terms of bringing it more upwards and forwards entails. That's what's really holds me back.

After looking up several options I came to the conclusion that only a le fort 3 CCW or a high cut le fort 1 CCW + a modified le fort 3 CCW could in my initial situation (I’m above 25) solve this problem noticeable. I know and considering the risks associated with a le fort 3 CCW, but I think in my case it is the most sensible solution according to the problem I like to address.
I strive to get a midface ratio of 1:1 ideally 1:1.05. With le fort 3 CCW that would be in my opinion best achievable, because it would solve a variety of other problems related to the eye area and the nose shape better, than a modified lefort 3 + high cut lefort 1 in comparison. I prefer to get a full on lefort 3 CCW. I would remove the scars with PRF, fraxel lasers and chemical peelings later. Getting more facial width would not solve it in its root cause. This would only camouflage it.

The problem I see here is that almost no surgeon performs these upper jaw surgeries unless there is a clear facial deformity that causes massive health problems. Despite this, I've read about some accessions that have managed to get invasive procedures (not a le fort 3), although they don't have any severe health syndromes (e.g. @CosmicMaxxer).

How do you go about convincing a surgeon to do a full on le fort 3 CCW? Do you know surgeons that would be more willing to do a full on le fort 3 CCW or may have a more open ear for this? I respect your privacy and will not disclose who gave me the information. You can also DM me if you prefer. I respect that.

I was a bit lurking around in this forum and below I'm tagging some people who I have the impression that are knowledgeable/experienced in problems of this kind
@retard, @SayNoToRotting, @Sergio-OMS, @RealSurgerymax, @orthochadic, @MedMaxxing, @ropeandcope, @pizza, @noprogressno

Thank you for your time, I appreciate it. If you know other users, that can give serious contribution to solve this problem in it’s root cause as much as possible (no camouflaging) please tag them.

Iq mogger tbh

 

[Deleted member 21765]

@Ragnar I'm 27. @FrameMaxxed I was already considering DIY approaches like mewing and hard gum chewing and after 1.5 years there was no change to my midface ratio. I don’t think chewing or mewing will help especially in my age with this specific problem. I know of results from mewing and/or chewing even older than my age, but unfounately the midface ratio didn’t changed noticeable much. I measured it in several before and afters. I learned about MSE with a Facemask but this would not achieve much CCW due to the resistance of the upper third.

if your occlusal plane is > 0 you can change your midface with the mouthguard method, if not then unfortunately not.

 

[SeriousAscension]

@khvirgin cost would not be not a problem. I know that inhibition is higher for a surgeon to perform it, in such a case, but this is why I am willing to pay more.

 

[Deleted member 26859]

@Ragnar I'm 27. @FrameMaxxed I was already considering DIY approaches like mewing and hard gum chewing and after 1.5 years there was no change to my midface ratio. I don’t think chewing or mewing will help especially in my age with this specific problem. I know of results from mewing and/or chewing even older than my age, but unfounately the midface ratio didn’t changed noticeable much. I measured it in several before and afters. I learned about MSE with a Facemask but this would not achieve much CCW due to the resistance of the upper third.

try the biting down on mouthguard thing. on paper it should work

 

[Deleted member 24789]

I think that lefort 3 will never be cometic my brother , the risk of death is far too great. Even OBO is more realistic to do than lefort 3

 

[Deleted member 21765]

try the biting down on mouthguard thing. on paper it should work

you don't even have to bite hard, do it for 2 hours a day while taking deep breaths. I would also put wire retainers behind the front teeths.

 

[SeriousAscension]

@FrameMaxxed Although I didn't used a mouth guard but do you know of results around my age with a mouthguard to shorten the midface?

 

[SeriousAscension]

@Ai Impact I understand you. But if you got responses from women like "eeehw I don't know .... but like your face is so long and ...." after some time I got the need to address it in its root cause.

 

[Deleted member 24789]

you don't even have to bite hard, do it for 2 hours a day while taking deep breaths. I would also put wire retainers behind the front teeths.

It won't work, the only way to improve the midface is lefort 1 impaction combined with bimax, or OBO

 

[Deleted member 21765]

@FrameMaxxed Although I didn't used a mouth guard but do you know of results around my age with a mouthguard to shorten the midface?

I currently have occlusal problems, after if I get them fixed, I will do it as well. I am 3 years younger tho and have hypermobility + low bone density therefore I assume my bones are more malleable. Nevertheless, bones react to force, and it should work, It will probably take a bit longer in your case.

 

[Deleted member 19174]

Nigga said lefort 3 JFL

In all honesty, focus on other failos that you can fix with regular surgeries. You'd be hard pressed to get a doctor to perfomr fucking LF3 on your skull

 

[Deleted member 21765]

It won't work, the only way to improve the midface is lefort 1 impaction combined with bimax, or OBO

cope.

 

[Deleted member 24789]

cope.

dude my midface is 0.94-0.95, believe me if it were true i would be the first to do it

 

[Deleted member 21765]

dude my midface is 0.94-0.95, believe me if it were true i would be the first to do it

alright then, explain me why? ever heard of wollfs law?

 

[SeriousAscension]

@defezman So for a surgical approach a high cut le fort 1 CCW would be more likely?

 

[Deleted member 21765]

dude my midface is 0.94-0.95, believe me if it were true i would be the first to do it

also a mfr of 0.95 is not bad, most models have slightly longer midfaces.

 

[Deleted member 24789]

alright then, explain me why? ever heard of wollfs law?

it's necessary to apply a constant force on the bones, from morning to evening and not only 2 hours in the day, which is humanly impossible and much too dangerous

 

[Deleted member 24789]

also a mfr of 0.95 is not bad, most models have slightly longer midfaces.

most have 0:98 - 1:1 or slightly more

it's not bad but i would have had chad potential very clearly if i had a shorter midface

 

[Ragnar]

@Ragnar I'm 27. @FrameMaxxed I was already considering DIY approaches like mewing and hard gum chewing and after 1.5 years there was no change to my midface ratio. I don’t think chewing or mewing will help especially in my age with this specific problem. I know of results from mewing and/or chewing even older than my age, but unfounately the midface ratio didn’t changed noticeable much. I measured it in several before and afters. I learned about MSE with a Facemask but this would not achieve much CCW due to the resistance of the upper third.

ok then your surgeries makes sense, good luck man

 

[Deleted member 21765]

it's necessary to apply a constant force on the bones, from morning to evening and not only 2 hours in the day, which is humanly impossible and much too dangerous

how did he do it? LF69?

 

[Deleted member 24789]

how did he do it? LF69?

chin implant / filler / genio

definitely not the mewing

 

[Deleted member 21765]

chin implant / filler / genio

definitely not the mewing

jfl at your iq. I need to leave this place.

 

[Deleted member 24789]

jfl at your iq. I need to leave this place.

This guy and Salludon are the biggest mewing memes

 

[Deleted member 21765]

This guy and Salludon are the biggest mewing memes

you do you brother, I wish you all the best.

 

[Mouthbreath]

i cant believe we have to resort to expensive af life threatening face breaking bone drilling surgeries just to get ideal facial ratios so an average woman can maybe love us

Sounds like the most normal thing to me at this point

 

[Deleted member 24789]

you do you brother, I wish you all the best.

look, here is a realistic result of mewing

8 months of mewing and a very good follow-up

0 changes

 

[Deleted member 21765]

look, here is a realistic result of mewing

8 months of mewing and a very good follow-up

0 changes

everybody response differently, as I said if your occlusal plane is > 0 you can achieve CCW rotation. On a side note I actually talked with that guy via zoom, he is a dumb mfer.

 

[Deleted member 24789]

everybody response differently, as I said if your occlusal plane is > 0 you can achieve CCW rotation. On a side note I actually talked with that guy via zoom, he is a dumb mfer.

do you have a before and after? (Mouthguard) Man if it's true I'm just waiting to see, it could be useful for everyone

 

[Deleted member 21765]

do you have a before and after? (Mouthguard) Man if it's true I'm just waiting to see, it could be useful for everyone

As I said, I am currently dealing with occlusal problems. But after that is fixed, I will report. But I will never post my face here. This https://looksmax.org/threads/chewing-megathread.160248/page-6 and astro sky is by far the best evidence I found. I mean look at that video again, I mean every of his 14 facial bones changed. Just look at the nose alone, It got smaller and more upturned.

 

[Nebula]

@TRUE_CEL another victim. Fuck u

 

[Deleted member 24789]

As I said, I am currently dealing with occlusal problems. But after that is fixed, I will report. But I will never post my face here. This https://looksmax.org/threads/chewing-megathread.160248/page-6 and astro sky is by far the best evidence I found. I mean look at that video again, I mean every of his 14 facial bones changed. Just look at the nose alone, It got smaller and more upturned.

I don't see any result on the thread, only theory

in addition it dates from 2020, maybe the op would have posted an evolution if it worked

 

[Gengar]

@TRUE_CEL another victim. Fuck u

Narcy nebby go cry me a river. You should be glad I accepted his account here; now you have someone to talk to (and hate on me with together.)

 

[Nebula]

Narcy nebby go cry me a river. You should be glad I accepted his account here; now you have someone to talk to (and hate on me with together.)

Cope its over

 

[SeriousAscension]

@FrameMaxxed Thank you for your contribution. So to get the best possible outcome overall to fix a long midface as an adult as much as possible would be in conclusion (if putting all together): 1. Check if you have any occlusion problems, if not go futher. 2. Use MSE to split the sutures only. 3. After the suture split, lock the MSE and don't expand. 4. Then do Mouthguard chewing as much as possible during the day. 5. Meanwhile practice all that is known as orthotropics like body posture, nose breathing and correct swallowing religiously.

When the sutures ossify back, turn the MSE again to open them and lock the MSE again.
The idea I wanna show is to loosen as much resistance there is, which makes it hard for an adult to achieve results. One resistance I know of are the ossified sutures. The other one I know of would be the slower bone remodelling rate, which could be enhanced I suppose by taking peptides, B complex and all variations of K2 (K2mk4, K2mk7, K2mk8, K2mk9). Do this for 8 years or somethin' then get a high cut le fort 1 CCW. I believe a high cut le fort 1 would be more likely to get. If you are lucky get a modified le fort 3 CCW additionally, but I don't think this will likely happen.
@FrameMaxxed What do you think? Combining all together to get the most out of it and then the surgery? Are there more resistances than the mentioned two?

 

[Deleted member 21765]

@FrameMaxxed Thank you for your contribution. So to get the best possible outcome overall to fix a long midface as an adult as much as possible would be in conclusion (if putting all together): 1. Check if you have any occlusion problems, if not go futher. 2. Use MSE to split the sutures only. 3. After the suture split, lock the MSE and don't expand. 4. Then do Mouthguard chewing as much as possible during the day. 5. Meanwhile practice all that is known as orthotropics like body posture, nose breathing and correct swallowing religiously.

When the sutures ossify back, turn the MSE again to open them and lock the MSE again.
The idea I wanna show is to loosen as much resistance there is, which makes it hard for an adult to achieve results from mewing. One resistance I know of are the ossified sutures. The other one I know of would be the slower bone remodelling rate, which could be enhanced I suppose by taking peptides, B complex and all variations of K2 (K2mk4, K2mk7, K2mk8, K2mk9). Do this for 8 years or somethin' then get a high cut le fort 1 CCW. I believe a high cut le fort 1 would be more likely to get. If you are lucky get a modified le fort 3 CCW additionally, but I don't think this will likely happen.
@FrameMaxxed What do you think? Combining all together to get the most out of it and then the surgery?

I like the MSE idea. You could also use Interoral Facepulling to loosen the sutures up a bit. For bone remodeling, consider this article: https://magnumworkshop.com/how-to-speed-up-bone-remodeling/. Also, deep and slow breathing is hugely important - Consider this:

As I said, I currently have occlusal problems, but after I fixed them I will report. Also, please consider my baseline is very different. I have low bone density (did a 3D scan by a max fax surgeon) + hypermobility. You should see significant changes after 1-2 years, if not, I guess it's not working, or you didn't apply enough force. Surgery should be your last resort, but don't even think about LF3. High cut LF1 is realistic, tho.

 

[Bewusst]

I didn't read that wall of text, but is really a long midface or just a narrow one?

 

[SeriousAscension]

@Bewusst Thanks for the honesty lol. It is both. I have the typical mouthbreather face where your face got narrower and longer at the same time. I could get more facial width by using the MSE multiple times, but this would not reduce the midface length. At best this would be a camouflage which is in my case not doing much because my midface is very long. I suppose the camouflaging by getting more facial width could work by using MSE if you have a MFR of 0.95 and above AND not an already wide face. But in my case this will not help much.

 

[Bewusst]

@Bewusst Thanks for the honesty lol. It is both. I have the typical mouthbreather face where your face got narrower and longer at the same time. I could get more facial width by using the MSE multiple times, but this would not reduce the midface length. At best this would be a camouflage which is in my case not doing much because my midface is very long. I suppose the camouflaging by getting more facial width could work by using MSE if you have a MFR of 0.95 and above AND not an already wide face. But in my case this will not help much.

I wasn't suggesting any solutions as I haven't seen any pictures. It was just meant as food for thought to reconsider your perspective

 

[Vain786]

mewng is a cope tbh

ive only been mewing sicne a few years and happen to have one of the godliest hjaws/chin on .org

 

[SeriousAscension]

I know. This is what I also thought. Do you have any other creative ideas?

 

[noprogressno]

How do you go about convincing a surgeon to do a full on le fort 3 CCW? Do you know surgeons that would be more willing to do a full on le fort 3 CCW or may have a more open ear for this?

You can't. There is absolutely no surgeon who would perform lefort 3 on a non-syndromic patient.
You can opt for lefort 1 + implants to fix the look you are describing. However, you seem like you want to fix the root issue and not just camouflage your looks. This is a very hard goal. Because currently there is nothing proven that can get you to that goal. However there are some unproven theories and they might work with enough dedication on adults, the problem is no one really tried them dedicated enough before, so no one actually knows if those theories could work for an adult or not.
I am guessing you heard about MSE and and some types of bone anchored protraction like BAMP. MSE has long and usually stable screws which makes them sucessful even on adults for expansion. But MSE has its limits for protraction around the alveolar bone. Thats because MSE has dental support and the protraction hooks are soldered onto molar bands, which are cemented onto molar teeth. Because of this reason, nearly %100 of movement that comes fron protraction is dental(in my opinion %100 of movement protraction with MSE gives is dental). And this is not a good thing for aesthetics because if your teeth are too much inclined forwards, this can cause lip incompetence and create an illusion of weak chin
BAMP has its problems too because the miniscrews are only 7mm's long and this makes them not stable under high forces(im talking about over 600g each side). Which is bad because adults need high forces in order to see any results
If there was a way to eliminate the dental support from MSE without making the device unstable and finding a way to protract from the anchorage point itself, this would eliminate those problems and you could maybe actually get some of the results you want. However there is no design like that at the moment so either if you are so determined, find a way to create a protraction device like this or opt for something cosmetic

 

[VenatorLuparius]

As I said, I am currently dealing with occlusal problems. But after that is fixed, I will report. But I will never post my face here. This https://looksmax.org/threads/chewing-megathread.160248/page-6 and astro sky is by far the best evidence I found. I mean look at that video again, I mean every of his 14 facial bones changed. Just look at the nose alone, It got smaller and more upturned.

Just lol at having a Marcus Aurelus avi while being so retarded.