Chewing Megathread

[Potentialcel]

no you don’t understand how the mechanisms work yourself retard

the face adheres to the same laws of physics that dictate everything else in this world, not muh potentialcel’s theories that come from r/mewing

fuck i guess your right

 

[efidescontinuado]

 

[kuroganeikki]

what if i combine everything you said with this https://looksmax.org/threads/mse-msdo-fm.220694/

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

@retard Reviving a great thread here. I want to add a recommendation.

Incisor chewing is stupid. Incisors were meant for biting with extreme force, not repetitive motion to mush food.

Purchase a sports mouthguard and bite down hard on the incisors onto it for CCW maxilla rotation. This combined with interchanging with mastic gum on molars will produce optimal facial development. Mouthguards prevent you from grinding your teeth enamel on a hard surface.

You rarely see NFL players who use mouthguards have recessed maxillas outside of QBs, punters, or kickers. NFL players often have optimal facial development and improved airways, hence why they are professional athletes.

Chewing mastic and biting a mouthguard gave me hunter eyes and decreased my gonial angle from 130 to almost 105. I'm 24 too lol

This thread is literally the solution to everything facial development-wise, but most people aren't intelligent enough to connect the dots.

This is a lengthy first post, but fuck it right?

 

[Deleted member 1707]

@retard Reviving a great thread here. I want to add a recommendation.

Incisor chewing is stupid. Incisors were meant for biting with extreme force, not repetitive motion to mush food.

Purchase a sports mouthguard and bite down hard on the incisors onto it for CCW maxilla rotation. This combined with interchanging with mastic gum on molars will produce optimal facial development. Mouthguards prevent you from grinding your teeth enamel on a hard surface.

You rarely see NFL players who use mouthguards have recessed maxillas outside of QBs, punters, or kickers. NFL players often have optimal facial development and improved airways, hence why they are professional athletes.

Chewing mastic and biting a mouthguard gave me hunter eyes and decreased my gonial angle from 130 to almost 105. I'm 24 too lol

This thread is literally the solution to everything facial development-wise, but most people aren't intelligent enough to connect the dots.

This is a lengthy first post, but fuck it right?

GOD

 

[betamanlet]

@retard Reviving a great thread here. I want to add a recommendation.

Incisor chewing is stupid. Incisors were meant for biting with extreme force, not repetitive motion to mush food.

Purchase a sports mouthguard and bite down hard on the incisors onto it for CCW maxilla rotation. This combined with interchanging with mastic gum on molars will produce optimal facial development. Mouthguards prevent you from grinding your teeth enamel on a hard surface.

You rarely see NFL players who use mouthguards have recessed maxillas outside of QBs, punters, or kickers. NFL players often have optimal facial development and improved airways, hence why they are professional athletes.

Chewing mastic and biting a mouthguard gave me hunter eyes and decreased my gonial angle from 130 to almost 105. I'm 24 too lol

This thread is literally the solution to everything facial development-wise, but most people aren't intelligent enough to connect the dots.

This is a lengthy first post, but fuck it right?

Thanks for sharing.. Biting down on a mouthguard is a great idea. Though I suspect that unless you are going for forceful clenching, the enamel should be able to withstand the modest amount of clenching that is required to change facial form. In any case, I'd imagine that the mouthguard allows the masticatory forces to be distributed much more evenly across the arches. A couple of questions:

1) what was the timespan between which the changes took place?

2) between the masseters and the temporalii, which muscle pair was working harder in your view?

3) did your occlusion change?

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

@betamanlet @retard
1) On and off during COVID. We aren't talking years here. 6-9 months. Mouthguard was like 6, gum and mastic for maybe 9? I only took it serious in the last few months tbh

2) No idea, you do get a headache sometimes if you eat too many carbs and continue biting is what I have noticed. Temporalis pops out of your head and your masseters make you look like a lizard trying to scare a predator. Sometimes your ears hurt too? Not sure why.

3) Not noticably - this is a bit different because I have a) a permanent retainer on incisors and b) I had maxilla surgery 5 years ago and I'm not sure what role the titanium or w/e plates hold in occlusion. BIG CONFOUNDING FACTOR.

This article kind of explains it with the clenching example and the monkey experiment.

How to make long face shorter? without surgery using facial muscles?

Studies show that babies are more drawn and attracted to faces that are shorter. Orthodontic case studies has shown without exception that shorter, more forward growing faces look better and have s…

claimingpower.com

The author comes to the wrong conclusion despite having the correct facts. Essentially you are shortening your face length by crunching your maxilla between your forehead and lower jaw. Chewing strengthens your temporalis and masseter which impacts the force you can crunch your maxilla with.

In the monkey experiment, the monkeys had their jaws reinforced by muscle and had optimal facial development. When their mouths were open and teeth were not together, they looked submonkey.

When was the last time you heard of a Mewing monkey? A Mewing wolf?
-Eat shit mew cucks. Muscle makes the face and you can tongue my anus.

I'm an idiot - just realizing why the HS football star is the guy every girl wants to bang. It's literally the mouthpiece hahahahahahah
Literally a pacifier for adults that doesn't mess too much with occlusion like a real pacifier.

As a Panthers fan - see Luke Kuechly and Christian McCaffrey.

 

[curryslayerordeath]

@betamanlet @retard
3) Not noticably - this is a bit different because I have a) a permanent retainer on incisors and b) I had maxilla surgery 5 years ago and I'm not sure what role the titanium or w/e plates hold in occlusion. BIG CONFOUNDING FACTOR.

elab por favor. what was your situation like pre surgery (facial type, recession, etc) and what kinda movements did u have? how could chewing rotate ur occlusal plane if it was already corrected by surgery?

 

[betamanlet]

1) On and off during COVID. We aren't talking years here. 6-9 months. Mouthguard was like 6, gum and mastic for maybe 9? I only took it serious in the last few months tbh

Yeah, it's puzzling how many believe that bone remodelling takes years and years. Meanwhile losing a teeth causes the gap to close in mere weeks, and a fracture in your shin will heal in a month or two. Given proper stimuli and consistency, changes are relatively fast to achieve. The most common stumbling block is the failure to figure out what 'proper stimuli' entails.

Sometimes your ears hurt too? Not sure why.

I've noticed that too. I think it is temporary TMJ pain due to the skeletal changes that are taking place. The joint can only reactively adapt to changes in jaw dynamics. Thus going too fast might result in further TMJ problems, tinnitus and such.

Essentially you are shortening your face length by crunching your maxilla between your forehead and lower jaw. Chewing strengthens your temporalis and masseter which impacts the force you can crunch your maxilla with.

Precisely! There is even a study that found an inverse correlation between temporalis proportion and facial height, and positive correlation with anterior-posterior skull length, facial width, orbital angularity (eye-hooding) and other features:

I agree that the tongue is only a minor player. I practiced tongue posture for 5 years, only achieving lateral expansion, which don't get me wrong resulted in a nice aesthetic improvement, but wasn't the holy grail I had been looking for. It took mandibular engagement before I could begin to achieve more profound changes. Makes sense, since the masticatory muscles are significantly larger than the glossal muscles.

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

elab por favor. what was your situation like pre surgery (facial type, recession, etc) and what kinda movements did u have? how could chewing rotate ur occlusal plane if it was already corrected by surgery?

Very small mouth, somewhat recessed maxilla. Big issue was that it had my maxilla (EDIT: I have to double check this is correct, I didn't understand the bone stuff at the time of surgery) pushing against sinuses which made breathing hard. Got insurance to cover a great deal of it.

The plates kept the maxilla aligned when the bone was reforming.

On to the biting/chewing - the angle of the maxilla changed. See the graph from the @retard 's original post. Since the volume of bone in your face is relatively fixed, ignoring bone smashing/injuries/puberty, the density of certain parts of the maxilla is able to change. Meaning the bones can be manipulated by force.

The part above the plates shortened due to the forces applied and the cheekbones increased in projection. Literally just bending to the forces applied despite the plates being in place.

It's similarly the reason why old people with rods in their legs can have manipulated femurs/tibias despite surgical intervention. A family member of mine shattered their femur despite a titanium rod being in it and it grew back longer and outward bending compared to their other leg.

It does cause a bit of pain if I'm being honest because I can feel the plates, however, part of my lips/mouth area is numb from the surgery so it evens out and the pain isn't too bad.

Ever had a broken bone? I've broken multiple fingers, sometimes it grows back funky even if you have a splint. The splint, and in this case the plates, does not necessarily inhibit bone growth, but controls where it goes it to a degree.

 

[000]

@retard Reviving a great thread here. I want to add a recommendation.

Incisor chewing is stupid. Incisors were meant for biting with extreme force, not repetitive motion to mush food.

Purchase a sports mouthguard and bite down hard on the incisors onto it for CCW maxilla rotation. This combined with interchanging with mastic gum on molars will produce optimal facial development. Mouthguards prevent you from grinding your teeth enamel on a hard surface.

You rarely see NFL players who use mouthguards have recessed maxillas outside of QBs, punters, or kickers. NFL players often have optimal facial development and improved airways, hence why they are professional athletes.

Chewing mastic and biting a mouthguard gave me hunter eyes and decreased my gonial angle from 130 to almost 105. I'm 24 too lol

This thread is literally the solution to everything facial development-wise, but most people aren't intelligent enough to connect the dots.

This is a lengthy first post, but fuck it right?

Can you send me pictures of your progress

 

[JizzFarmer]

Can you send me pictures of your progress

Same @Dad_Bod_God

 

[Deleted member 8632]

should i push my lower jaw forward so the incisors are on top of each other or chew on the incisors while the lower incisors are behind the front incisors? Wouldn't this method give me an open bit ?

 

[AutisticBeaner]

When was the last time you heard of a Mewing monkey? A Mewing wolf?
-Eat shit mew cucks. Muscle makes the face and you can tongue my anus.

there's a study where they put a piece of plastic on the roof of monkeys' mouths so they couldn't mew anymore. and they became submonkey too.

 

[Deleted member 9819]

@retard Reviving a great thread here. I want to add a recommendation.

Incisor chewing is stupid. Incisors were meant for biting with extreme force, not repetitive motion to mush food.

Purchase a sports mouthguard and bite down hard on the incisors onto it for CCW maxilla rotation. This combined with interchanging with mastic gum on molars will produce optimal facial development. Mouthguards prevent you from grinding your teeth enamel on a hard surface.

You rarely see NFL players who use mouthguards have recessed maxillas outside of QBs, punters, or kickers. NFL players often have optimal facial development and improved airways, hence why they are professional athletes.

Chewing mastic and biting a mouthguard gave me hunter eyes and decreased my gonial angle from 130 to almost 105. I'm 24 too lol

This thread is literally the solution to everything facial development-wise, but most people aren't intelligent enough to connect the dots.

This is a lengthy first post, but fuck it right?

damn i play football and i used to bite my mouthguard a lot, gonna try doing it again

 

[Wolfie]

Would a myobrace work the same as a mouthguard?

 

[Deleted member 8632]

should i push my lower jaw forward so the incisors are on top of each other or chew on the incisors while the lower incisors are behind the front incisors? Wouldn't this method give me an open bit ?

@retard

 

[retard]

@retard

the incisors should never be on top of each other, a 2-3 mm overbite is normal/healthy

 

[Deleted member 5634]

Very small mouth, somewhat recessed maxilla. Big issue was that it had my maxilla (EDIT: I have to double check this is correct, I didn't understand the bone stuff at the time of surgery) pushing against sinuses which made breathing hard. Got insurance to cover a great deal of it.

The plates kept the maxilla aligned when the bone was reforming.

On to the biting/chewing - the angle of the maxilla changed. See the graph from the @retard 's original post. Since the volume of bone in your face is relatively fixed, ignoring bone smashing/injuries/puberty, the density of certain parts of the maxilla is able to change. Meaning the bones can be manipulated by force.

The part above the plates shortened due to the forces applied and the cheekbones increased in projection. Literally just bending to the forces applied despite the plates being in place.

It's similarly the reason why old people with rods in their legs can have manipulated femurs/tibias despite surgical intervention. A family member of mine shattered their femur despite a titanium rod being in it and it grew back longer and outward bending compared to their other leg.

It does cause a bit of pain if I'm being honest because I can feel the plates, however, part of my lips/mouth area is numb from the surgery so it evens out and the pain isn't too bad.

Ever had a broken bone? I've broken multiple fingers, sometimes it grows back funky even if you have a splint. The splint, and in this case the plates, does not necessarily inhibit bone growth, but controls where it goes it to a degree.

Can you pm pics bro

 

[Stare]

@retard Reviving a great thread here. I want to add a recommendation.

Incisor chewing is stupid. Incisors were meant for biting with extreme force, not repetitive motion to mush food.

Purchase a sports mouthguard and bite down hard on the incisors onto it for CCW maxilla rotation. This combined with interchanging with mastic gum on molars will produce optimal facial development. Mouthguards prevent you from grinding your teeth enamel on a hard surface.

You rarely see NFL players who use mouthguards have recessed maxillas outside of QBs, punters, or kickers. NFL players often have optimal facial development and improved airways, hence why they are professional athletes.

Chewing mastic and biting a mouthguard gave me hunter eyes and decreased my gonial angle from 130 to almost 105. I'm 24 too lol

This thread is literally the solution to everything facial development-wise, but most people aren't intelligent enough to connect the dots.

This is a lengthy first post, but fuck it right?

Very good first post, welcome to the forum boyo

 

[Deleted member 6892]

Gonna start biting with my wrestling mouthguard 2 hrs a day and document my results
we’ll see if results are real at 15

 

[bl0odyme5s]

Recently there has been a lot of talk about incisor chewing, and prior to that k9 chewing, all of these serve separate purposes for the changes you are trying to achieve.

Chewing imo is the most underrated looksmax for how easy it is, it is very likely that you can remodel your bones in a relatively short period of time if you chew strenuously, the same mewers who will torture themselves for months on end getting the back third of the tongue up are ironically the same ones who pass up this giga easy looksmax. Chewing has the potential to remodel bone very fast due to the absurd amount of forces

The jaw elevator muscles develop the main forces used in mastication. The force generated during routine mastication of food such as carrots or meat is about 70 to 150 newtons (16 to 34 lbf). The maximum masticatory force in some people may reach up to 500 to 700 newtons (110 to 160 lbf). Being we are aspies and can chew 5+ pieces of hard ass falim, and build up the strength of our masseters from constant chewing, it is not unreasonable to expect to be able to exert 350+ Newtons of force per mastication.

To compare how significant this is maxilla protraction is generally done with 10 Newtons, and the tongue can exert around 5 while hard mewing, so it is safe to say that chewing is 60x more force than your tongue, making it an extremely potent change for actual bone change, many people when thinking of chewing only look at it as a way to build masseters, but this is simply a bonus.

Daily spurts of cyclic load caused sutural strain throughout the skull. The regime likely enhances suture growth and may be therapeutically useful. -https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6361671/

This means that sutural growth is possible from forces that only take place for few minutes a day, and sutural growth is essentially what you need to make change in bone, past age 12 the sutures begin mature (and while they dont fuse til very late in life, they become very hard to stimulate growth from), chewing opens up an opportunity with the insanely high forces as a gateway to awaken these dormant sutures.



While that should of provided some helpful background info on chewing, this is part of the thread that will help you actually change your bone, based on your method(s) of chewing, you can get any of the following assuming you follow the proper protocal:

Decreased midface length (or increase if your midface is overly compact)

Increasing orbitals more compact

Making cheekbones higherset

Increasing forward growth (maximizing really)

Can make your sutures more responsive to generating new growth

Remodels the jawbone itsself to be more robust

There is also the possibility of increasing the length of your maxilla laterally from some of @SayNoToRotting 's reported changing and some studies also talk about the association of masseter muscles and maxillary transverse width, but this might not be possible past the age where the midpalatal suture becomes dormant, as I do not think chewing directly will interfere with this suture, and that is the main hindering factor for transverse expansion (hence you get MSE to split this suture to allow for growth)

Since many of you retards suffer from the extreme disability of reading a thread past 100 words, i will list what you need to do for what changes, but if you are interested i will explain the mechanisms later on.

Decreasing midface length- chew with the incisors

Increasing midface length- chew with back molars

Making cheekbones higherset- chew with first molar to first premolar

Making orbitals more compact- chew with first molar to first premolar and incisors

Maximizing forward growth- chew with the incisors

Weakening sutures for moving the maxilla forward (will give much quicker mewing/facepulling results)- chew with incisors

Remodelling mandible to be more robust- any chewing method will give this change

You can combine methods as long as they dont contradict each other, incisor chewing vs back molar chewing, personally i will be chewing falim for one hour on incisors and one hour on my molar-premolar for an hour as well.


Mechanisms: Chewing on your incisors will apply an upward force to the anterior part of the maxilla inducing a CCW rotation, while inversely molar chewing will cause a CW maxilla rotation, CCW rotation will also move the orbitals upwards

The upper/middle part of the maxilla are located relatively at around the center of the maxilla (the center of resistance is here as well), meaning that for a upwards translation of the cheekbones you need to chew with the teeth located in the middle part of the maxilla, as tipping the ends will not influence the center, this is the same mechanism that pertains to the orbitals becoming more compact, as the maxilla translates upward, so do the orbitals and zygos which will lead to highset zygos + more compact orbitals

Since when developing we are lacking the support of the tongue which would cause us to grow vetically instead of forward, we all have a bit of CW rotation built into us, when there is CW rotation it lessens forward growth, by correcting it you will gain forward growth as well, it is similar to gaining height from fixing posture, you aren't actually growing, just maximizing what you have
View attachment 480037
the blackline is your maxilla, both lines have the same amount of pixels, yet when you rotate a heavily clockwise maxilla, just by default you will gain a ton of forward movement. (this was an exaggeration, you arent going to have this level of rotational change)

the mechanism behind the sutures being weakened is too complex to try to explain so





start chewing nibbas

you just revealed my secrete now all you losers will steal my tinder sluts. fuckkkk.

 

[retard]

Gonna start biting with my wrestling mouthguard 2 hrs a day and document my results
we’ll see if results are real at 15

be cautious, I worry against the mouth guard idea because it’s a constant force while chewing off and on, and tooth movement responds much better to constant forces than non constant ones

 

[Deleted member 6892]

be cautious, I worry against the mouth guard idea because it’s a constant force while chewing off and on, and tooth movement responds much better to constant forces than non constant ones

Yeah I will, I’ll chew too I just wanna know if it’s cope or not
ill stop if any complications arise

 

[Deleted member 8632]

the incisors should never be on top of each other, a 2-3 mm overbite is normal/healthy

so i've seen someone who got open bite by chewing with incisors and everyone celebrated this and said he should get facemask or braces so idk. Will i get open bite?

 

[Deleted member 1707]

@retard Reviving a great thread here. I want to add a recommendation.

Incisor chewing is stupid. Incisors were meant for biting with extreme force, not repetitive motion to mush food.

Purchase a sports mouthguard and bite down hard on the incisors onto it for CCW maxilla rotation. This combined with interchanging with mastic gum on molars will produce optimal facial development. Mouthguards prevent you from grinding your teeth enamel on a hard surface.

You rarely see NFL players who use mouthguards have recessed maxillas outside of QBs, punters, or kickers. NFL players often have optimal facial development and improved airways, hence why they are professional athletes.

Chewing mastic and biting a mouthguard gave me hunter eyes and decreased my gonial angle from 130 to almost 105. I'm 24 too lol

This thread is literally the solution to everything facial development-wise, but most people aren't intelligent enough to connect the dots.

This is a lengthy first post, but fuck it right?

 

[jackieboy21]

Ive been incisor chewing for a while with falim and i cant tell if my masseters are bloated, i think they are, all i want is masseter hypertrophy/width at the gonial. Any way too achieve this without bloating the rest of my face? @retard

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

be cautious, I worry against the mouth guard idea because it’s a constant force while chewing off and on, and tooth movement responds much better to constant forces than non constant ones

@retard This is an obvious worry that should be considered. Given that I have a perm retainer, this is likely mitigated.

I wonder if the same theory would apply to someone with braces.

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

I have quite a few DMs asking for pics, I'll try to get hunter eye pics after Jan 1 (I'm working north of 100 hours a week right now, hence why I post on Sundays). Going to try and crop my face out, but include brow ridge so you know I'm not a squinting asshole.

Gonial angle may be a bit harder without doxing myself completely. Have some very identifiable facial features (scars / birthmarks).

I don't want my personal brand traceable back here as I don't use social media other than for business.

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

there's a study where they put a piece of plastic on the roof of monkeys' mouths so they couldn't mew anymore. and they became submonkey too.

Someone got a link? I'd love to read this.

All my logic revolved around some basic physics principles. (Stealing OP's #s)

Tongue ~ 10-12 N forward / up vector (assuming CW tilt if posture is correct)
Gravity ~ 9 N down vector

Jaw clenching/chewing ~ 80-700 N diagonally forward / up vector (assuming CW tilt if posture is correct)
Gravity ~ 9 N down vector
_______
Net Mewing force (depending upon angle) ~ 1-10 N forward / up vector
Net Biting/Chewing force (depending upon angle) ~ 71-691 N forward / up vector

 

[AutisticBeaner]

Someone got a link? I'd love to read this.

All my logic revolved around some basic physics principles. (Stealing OP's #s)

Tongue ~ 10-12 N forward / up vector (assuming CW tilt if posture is correct)
Gravity ~ 9 N down vector

Jaw clenching/chewing ~ 80-700 N diagonally forward / up vector (assuming CW tilt if posture is correct)
Gravity ~ 9 N down vector
_______
Net Mewing force (depending upon angle) ~ 1-10 N forward / up vector
Net Biting/Chewing force (depending upon angle) ~ 71-691 N forward / up vector

im pretty sure mike mentions it in here, but i dont know if you've got all that time jfl

 

[NeoDandi]

What's a good video on the correct way of chewing gum and food?

Having chubby and not hollow cheeks due to being a mouth breather and not swallowing correctly for 20 years I'm worried I'm using my buccinators while chewing food or (tongue) chewing gum.

Is there an actual risk I'm still working my buccinators and therefore going nowhere with the excessive chewing?

 

[W0KESTMOTHF]

@retard should you open mouth chew?

 

[retard]

@retard should you open mouth chew?

Doesn’t make any difference force wise, may work the muscles slightly differently or use the tmj slightly differently but I don’t think it would have any aesthetic impact

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

im pretty sure mike mentions it in here, but i dont know if you've got all that time jfl

Thankfully there was a guide on the bottom of the video. 38:45

Mew specifically mentions that open mouth posture resulted from the plastic insert. So it's slightly different. This would imply no force by either the tongue or the jaw on the maxilla.

Wonder if the monkeys clenched their jaws with the insert in, would they develop properly?

 

[AutisticBeaner]

Thankfully there was a guide on the bottom of the video. 38:45

Mew specifically mentions that open mouth posture resulted from the plastic insert. So it's slightly different. This would imply no force by either the tongue or the jaw on the maxilla.

Wonder if the monkeys clenched their jaws with the insert in, would they adopt open mouth posture?

wait, why would a piece of plastic cause open mouth posture? they open their mouth every now and then either way, if they had the tongue on the roof of their mouth then the bone remodelling from open mouth posture would be reversed and nobody would notice anything. but they can't do that because of the plastic. they probably also had their mouth open more often but that's because their airway got smaller, it all starts with tongue posture.

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

wait, why would a piece of plastic cause open mouth posture? they open their mouth every now and then either way, if they had the tongue on the roof of their mouth then the bone remodelling from open mouth posture would be reversed and nobody would notice anything. but they can't do that because of the plastic. they probably also had their mouth open more often but that's because their airway got smaller, it all starts with tongue posture.

They would adopt open mouth posture because there is a downwards weight on the nasal passageway like you said. However, what is stopping the monkey from putting an upwards force on the plastic as it is sutured to the roof of the mouth? Suture != screwed, it is threaded.

If tongue posture mattered as much as you say it does and the plastic is touching the bone, why wouldn't they push on the plastic to breath through their nose? The plastic would push into the bone and into the airway.

Mew implies the ulcerated tongue is a result of monkeys trying tongue posture, however, I'm more likely to believe they are trying to get it out of their mouth.

You're trying to stop someone from breathing through their nose, then saying it wasn't you trying to stop them from breathing that caused open mouth posture, but their inability to use their tongue that they couldn't breath.

Ever wondered why you don't mew in your sleep? Now you have a plastic weight pulling down on your nasal passageway during sleep. What could possibly happen as a result?

Think of why people who have sleep apnea develop bruxism. Hint: it's so that they don't die in their sleep from lack of oxygen.

 

[AutisticBeaner]

They would adopt open mouth posture because there is a downwards weight on the nasal passageway like you said. However, what is stopping the monkey from putting an upwards force on the plastic as it is sutured to the roof of the mouth? Suture != screwed, it is threaded.

If tongue posture mattered as much as you say it does and the plastic is touching the bone, why wouldn't they push on the plastic to breath through their nose? The plastic would push into the bone and into the airway.

they lose the habit of proper tongue posture because the plastic makes that posture uncomfortbale

Ever wondered why you don't mew in your sleep?

i do mew in my sleep

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

they lose the habit of proper tongue posture because the plastic makes that posture uncomfortbale

I'm fairly certain that bruxism patients don't think grinding their teeth into oblivion is comfortable. It's literally to live. If you watch the same video, he mentions some monkeys would rather die than open mouth breath. They just control alt delete in their sleep which he specifically mentions as well.

I'm fairly certain monkeys would push through uncomfortableness of putting their tongue on plastic if it meant life or death. That's about as primal as it gets. I'm more inclined to believe the monkeys try to get it out, fail, and as a result ulcerate their tongue, which is not a byproduct of trying for tongue posture.

Shouldn't they clench their jaws? Wouldn't that just open the airway? Does that actually solve the problem?

If they are below or at a 90 degree angle sleeping on their side, the plastic is now on the roof of their mouth clogging the passageway. Roll a piece of gum up on the roof of your mouth, lie down, and breath through your nose. It clogs your airway.

Please answer this one Question: Why wouldn't bruxism patients just put their tongue on the roof of their mouth to open the airway if it was comfortable and the optimal way to breath? (EDIT: Talking about sleep apnea and bruxism) If they are going to die, they go with the one thing that ensures they won't (Shocker).

Putting plastic on the roof of their mouth just clogs the nose even more when sleeping flat, thus ensuring open mouth posture.
Mewing is great, however, Teeth Clenching > Mewing

 

[AutisticBeaner]

I'm fairly certain monkeys would push through uncomfortableness of putting their tongue on plastic if it meant life or death.

do you think the monkeys are aware that putting their tongue on the roof of their mouth is about life and death?

If they are below or at a 90 degree angle sleeping on their side, the plastic is now on the roof of their mouth clogging the passageway. Roll a piece of gum up on the roof of your mouth, lie down, and breath through your nose. It clogs your airway.

i dont know what you mean. i just did exactly that and was able to breathe just fine.

Please answer this one Question: Why wouldn't bruxism patients just put their tongue on the roof of their mouth to open the airway if it was comfortable and the optimal way to breath? (EDIT: Talking about sleep apnea and bruxism) If they are going to die, they go with the one thing that ensures they won't (Shocker).

how are they supposed to come up with putting their tongue on the roof of their mouth?

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

do you think the monkeys are aware that putting their tongue on the roof of their mouth is about life and death?

i dont know what you mean. i just did exactly that and was able to breathe just fine.

how are they supposed to come up with putting their tongue on the roof of their mouth?

1) You're saying an animal is not subconsciously aware of behaviors that are life or death? But wouldn't that disprove the sleep apnea and bruxism correlation that we know exists? Sleep apnea would kill people if that thought process was true.

2) I dropped the ball on the sleep point, I meant to say the pressure of plastic pulls the passageway left or right on the face depending on which side the monkey sleeps because it is sutered and not screwed in, thus pulling the tissue on the roof of the mouth. If they slept on their back, they'd die as gravity and the plastic pull down on nasal passageway. They could not survive on their front because the head would have to be sideways and again this pulls left to right on the tissue.

3) Exactly! I'm saying the clenching is a subconscious behavior to open up the airway. They aren't supposed to "come up with putting their tongue on the roof of their mouth" because that is a learned human behavior. Why wouldn't the body subconsciously put the tongue up at the roof of the mouth to ensure they could breath? Mewing IMO, is learned. Teeth clenching is subconscious to open up airways by forcing the maxilla up and forwards.

 

[betamanlet]

they aren't supposed to "come up with putting their tongue on the roof of their mouth" because that is a learned human behavior.

 

[betamanlet]

Mewing IMO, is learned. Teeth clenching is subconscious to open up airways by forcing the maxilla up and forwards.

Tongue posture is what will naturally happen upon assuming proper head & jaw posture. It is also a necessary requirement to forming intra-oral vacuum. Ideally you wouldn't have to pay any attention to the tongue at all, as doing all the other things correctly should automatically put the tongue in its right place. Try clenching and sucking your lips together- where does your tongue end up?

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

Tongue posture is what will naturally happen upon assuming proper head & jaw posture. It is also a necessary requirement to forming intra-oral vacuum. Ideally you don't have to pay any attention to the tongue at all, as doing all the other things correctly will automatically put the tongue in its right place. Try clenching and sucking your lips together- where does your tongue end up?

Yea this is a better explanation for it. The tongue often ends up in the same spot, but not always.

However, sucking to create a vacuum seems much more of a conscious behavior than subconscious in adults.

I do have a qualm with the video as it is a) a child and b) sleeping on his back. He has to use either his jaw or tongue to support the maxilla in order to have enough oxygen flow through the passageway. Don't think his jaw is quite strong enough considering he's still likely breastfed. That's part of the reason I tried to use adult bruxism examples. We breastfeed with our tongue until our jaws are strong enough to eat and chew. We do not know if that is the same for keeping the airway open.

The examples of the monkeys in Harvold's were adult male monkeys, adult female monkeys, and developing female monkeys I'll add. No babies, so beyond breastfeeding age.

Also, you can have tongue posture with open mouth posture.


At 0:59, this girl only clenched without tongue posture as a teenager. Incredible forward growth

 

[betamanlet]

However, sucking to create a vacuum seems much more of a conscious behavior than subconscious in adults.

I think with any luck one'll maintain it as a subconscious behavior throughout their life. In infants the vacuum is so strong relative to the muscles that are responsible for separating the jaws that if you pinch their nose shut they'll choke due to not being able to breathe through their mouth.

In any case, teeth contact, lip suction and tongue posture all complement each other so nicely that I suspect their combination to be more powerful than any of them in isolation. Lip suction seems to even activate some muscles below the occiput (which I can feel by placing my hands there) that aren't easily activated through any other means.

 

[Dad_Bod_God]

In any case, teeth contact, lip suction and tongue posture all complement each other so nicely that I suspect their combination to be more powerful than any of them in isolation

Agreed. All I'm really getting at was that lip suction and tongue posture paled in comparison to the power of the jaw in facial development.

I do slightly disagree with the vacuum sucking aspect because of the possible cheek muscle engagement. It's why babies have large buccinators (for sucking on titties while breastfeeding) and why people with hollow cheeks (atrophied buccinators) are sexy as adults. In babies it may be subconscious to survival, but not much as an adult.

 

[betamanlet]

Agreed. All I'm really getting at was that lip suction and tongue posture paled in comparison to the power of the jaw in facial development.

I do slightly disagree with the vacuum sucking aspect because of the possible cheek muscle engagement. It's why babies have large buccinators (for sucking on titties while breastfeeding) and why people with hollow cheeks (atrophied buccinators) are sexy as adults. In babies it may be subconscious to survival, but not much as an adult.

Yeah I think you're right. As for the vacuum, there should not be any engagement of the buccinators or other facial muscles. The vacuum is created and modulated by the posterior tongue, soft palate and the muscles of the throat. The way the vacuum pulls the cheeks and lips in against the dental arches may actually encourage formation of hollow cheeks by pulling the alveolar structures inward -- this is what someone on Reddit had achieved a couple of years ago, sadly I didn't save his results.

 

[AutisticBeaner]

1) You're saying an animal is not subconsciously aware of behaviors that are life or death? But wouldn't that disprove the sleep apnea and bruxism correlation that we know exists? Sleep apnea would kill people if that thought process was true.

2) I dropped the ball on the sleep point, I meant to say the pressure of plastic pulls the passageway left or right on the face depending on which side the monkey sleeps because it is sutered and not screwed in, thus pulling the tissue on the roof of the mouth. If they slept on their back, they'd die as gravity and the plastic pull down on nasal passageway. They could not survive on their front because the head would have to be sideways and again this pulls left to right on the tissue.

3) Exactly! I'm saying the clenching is a subconscious behavior to open up the airway. They aren't supposed to "come up with putting their tongue on the roof of their mouth" because that is a learned human behavior. Why wouldn't the body subconsciously put the tongue up at the roof of the mouth to ensure they could breath? Mewing IMO, is learned. Teeth clenching is subconscious to open up airways by forcing the maxilla up and forwards.

i just watched the clip again. what does he mean with "the tongue ulcerated"?

 

[WTFCGod]

Wisdom teeth chewing underated

 

[Oueyy]

So basically just chew and bite in mouthgard everyday ?