The biggest contradiction in Quran. Part 2. The crucifixion

[Ahmed88]

Nobody cares you ugly subhuman God hates u and ur people get blown up ur faggot prophet die to a jewess ur top debaters lose.

Is that your argument?
Let me guess you're a christcuck

 

[dhusc]

all that's left is the tattos

I’m gonna assume that’s a Mexican thing so I’m not even gonna ask

 

[dhusc]

Is that your argument?
Let me guess you're a christcuck

It’s funny how you put out a genuinely well thought argument and the replies are all like fuck you brownie fuck you boom boom islam bad instead of like a genuine attempt at disproving you

 

[Ahmed88]

It’s funny how you put out a genuinely well thought argument and the replies are all like fuck you brownie fuck you boom boom islam bad instead of like a genuine attempt at disproving you

Yeah it's fucking hilarious tho, the same guys cry about muslims being low iq

 

[Gamerspyy786]

@Mogmo @ccwb @Gamerspyy786 @topology

Watch this video.

 

[iblamexyz]

I’m gonna assume that’s a Mexican thing so I’m not even gonna ask

He’s not Mexican he’s white

 

[dhusc]

He’s not Mexican he’s white

I apologise for calling him the wrong racial pronouns

 

[iblamexyz]

Is that your argument?
Let me guess you're a christcuck

did this nigga jus quote reply a thing I didn’t say

 

[Ahmed88]

did this nigga jus quote reply a thing I didn’t say

Lmao what
This shitty as site is fucking ridiculous

 

[Jason Voorhees]

“Bible can have all the contradictions in the world” how can the divine word of god have contradictions?

Unlike the Quran, which is claimed to be a single direct revelation from one person, the Bible is a collection of 66 different books written by dozens of authors over 1,500 years. Christians acknowledge it was written by humans inspired by God, so variations in details like how many angels were at a tomb etc are expected and accepted besides this change thd historical fact of the crucifixion. Your reddit link is also regurgitation of the same points I made in OP

 

[Ruinedbyfaceshape]

I love how people post on this site trying to debunk religions that have been critiqued for thousands of years like they’re actual theologians
no religion is real anyways

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

Mohammad got fucked by 30 Black Indian men

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

Part 1 here

One of the biggest contradictions in Quran

In surah 9:30 The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah,” while the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah.” Such are their baseless assertions, only parroting the words of earlier disbelievers. May Allah condemn them! How can they be deluded ˹from the truth˺? Prophet Muhammad claims...

looksmax.org

This the biggest contradiction in Islam by far and is very central to the idea of Christianity. So let's make it clear

The crucifixion of Jesus is considered a "bedrock" fact. Jewish, Christian, Roman, Atheist historians and theologists all agree with the fact that Jesus Christ was crucified infact the execution of Jesus of Nazareth under Pontius Pilate (Roman prefect of Judea, ~AD 26-36) is one of the most certain facts about his life alongside his baptism. This is considered a universal fact and is not even up for debate.

Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is even confirmed by multiple different non Christian sources outside the gospel

Tacitus (Roman historian, Annals ~AD 116): "Christus, from whom the name [Christians] had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty [crucifixion] during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus."


View attachment 4989459

Josephus (Jewish historian, Antiquities of the Jews ~AD 93): Refers to Jesus as a wise man executed by Pilate via crucifixion. Josephus also clarified James as "the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ."

View attachment 4989460

And the all the sources i mentioned come from Roman, Jewish, and non Christian perspectives and they all independently reported the same event word for word as it was written in the gospels and arrived at the same conclusion. No ancient historian or even Christian haters that bashed jesus on his teachings like Celsus denied the crucifixion itself what they disagreed and disputed about was its meaning or the resurrection claims that followed.

View attachment 4989476

We have even found Archaeological evidence supports the practice: 1st-century crucified remains (e.g., the heel bone of "Yehohanan" with a nail) confirm Roman crucifixion methods in Judea matched Gospel descriptions exactly

View attachment 4989485

But Surah An-Nisa (4:157) directly conflicts with the historical evidence for Jesus's crucifixion.

View attachment 4989479

You'll only find this in Islamic texts and nowhere else. The Quran is divine revelation and thus infallible, so earlier sources (Gospels, historical records) must be mistaken, corrupted (tahrif), or illusory as per 4:157 and overall there's 0 convincing explanation and argument given for this by Muslim scholars

Some Muslims argue the verse only denies that the Jews succeeded in killing Jesus (Romans carried it out), or that Jesus didn't truly "die" in a spiritual sense, or that the appearance was deceptive by divine act or that Jesus was substituted for someone else and some modern ones like certain Ahmadis or scholars like Shabir Ally in softer readings allow for a crucifixion that didn't result in permanent death. But all mostly deflections that non islamic scholars and historian simply reject

Islamic views on Jesus's death - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 4989507

Christians see the crucifixion as central to atonement and prophecy fulfillment. The crucifixion of Christ is the main event in Christianity while Muslims see it as incompatible with a prophet's dignity and God's sovereignty so it remains a sensitive topic but that doesn't take away from the massive contraindication that exists in Quran. There are 2 more such contraindications that exist that I'll make. A thread about later

Whoever believes in Jesus becomes God's child, no matter what earthly race you are you become God's child and a spiritual Jew and Eternal Life is gifted to you! Rely on the Son of God

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

I love how people post on this site trying to debunk religions that have been critiqued for thousands of years like they’re actual theologians
no religion is real anyways

fe

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

I love how people post on this site trying to debunk religions that have been critiqued for thousands of years like they’re actual theologians
no religion is real anyways

grg

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

I love how people post on this site trying to debunk religions that have been critiqued for thousands of years like they’re actual theologians
no religion is real anyways

gr

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

I love how people post on this site trying to debunk religions that have been critiqued for thousands of years like they’re actual theologians
no religion is real anyways

fe

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

I love how people post on this site trying to debunk religions that have been critiqued for thousands of years like they’re actual theologians
no religion is real anyways

Whoever believes in the Son and relies on His blood is SAVED PROMISED ETERNAL LIFE

 

[Ruinedbyfaceshape]

Whoever believes in the Son and relies on His blood is SAVED PROMISED ETERNAL LIFE

Sure bro
all loving god 100% exists

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

Sure bro
all loving god 100% exists

he isnt all loving he hates a lot of ppl like evildoers

 

[Ruinedbyfaceshape]

he isnt all loving he hates a lot of ppl like evildoers

Do you believe he makes us suffer to be better

 

[Ruinedbyfaceshape]

Do you believe he makes us suffer to be better

Like is there some lesson we can learn from our suffering that he gives us

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

Do you believe he makes us suffer to be better

Idk but what ever happens God causes it or allows it so idk

 

[Ruinedbyfaceshape]

Idk but what ever happens God causes it or allows it so idk

If 'good' is just whatever God decides to do or let happen, then calling God 'good' is like saying 'God is God.' It doesn't tell us anything about His character. If God allowed something horrific, would it still be 'good' just because He permitted it?

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

If 'good' is just whatever God decides to do or let happen, then calling God 'good' is like saying 'God is God.' It doesn't tell us anything about His character. If God allowed something horrific, would it still be 'good' just because He permitted it?

yeah

 

[Ruinedbyfaceshape]

yeah

if god commanded something like genocide or the torture of an innocent child, would that act be 'good' just because He said so? If you say 'yes,' you've abandoned the human understanding of goodness. If you say 'no,' then you're admitting there's a standard of goodness that even God cannot violate

 

[Ruinedbyfaceshape]

if god commanded something like genocide or the torture of an innocent child, would that act be 'good' just because He said so? If you say 'yes,' you've abandoned the human understanding of goodness. If you say 'no,' then you're admitting there's a standard of goodness that even God cannot violate

If you say yes you disagree with Thomas Aquinas who argues that this is an error in Christian faith

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

if god commanded something like genocide or the torture of an innocent child, would that act be 'good' just because He said so? If you say 'yes,' you've abandoned the human understanding of goodness. If you say 'no,' then you're admitting there's a standard of goodness that even God cannot violate

God never commanded that but he commanded genocide on children of a evil nation but spare the virgins who didnt participate in sex rituals.

it was good

 

[Lonely]

@imontheloose @Lonely @1966Ford

I’m sorry but this seems to be very Christian biased. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the Crucifixion is an undeniable fact. And, the Quran doesn’t explicitly deny it anyways.

 

[Ruinedbyfaceshape]

God never commanded that but he commanded genocide on children of a evil nation but spare the virgins who didnt participate in sex rituals.

it was good

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

Was killing the children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. Good? Why couldn’t have god just told them spare the children and infants and teach them the correct faith instead infants don’t even know anything at all supporting this would be supporting clear evil which goes against the very idea of god being good.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

I’m sorry but this seems to be very Christian biased. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the Crucifixion is an undeniable fact. And, the Quran doesn’t explicitly deny it anyways.

I already did in the thread nigga. Literally ask on Google was jesus Christ crucified. It's literally a historical fact.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

I love how people post on this site trying to debunk religions that have been critiqued for thousands of years like they’re actual theologians
no religion is real anyways

I'm not trying to debunk anything. Im just restating the stuff that scholars have already argued to death

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

Was killing the children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. Good? Why couldn’t have god just told them spare the children and infants and teach them the correct faith instead infants don’t even know anything at all supporting this would be supporting clear evil which goes against the very idea of god being good.

because they were basically muslims like palestinians so its good they wiped them out.

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

I already did in the thread nigga. Literally ask on Google was jesus Christ crucified. It's literally a historical fact.

let that faggot go to Hell let God take his families life,

 

[Ruinedbyfaceshape]

because they were basically muslims like palestinians so its good they wiped them out.

geniune zero iq

how were they muslims this was pre islamic levant like thousands of years before islam

@Jason Voorhees this is what happens when you make religious threads you attract idiots like this

 

[thomasjiooo]

Part 1 here

One of the biggest contradictions in Quran

In surah 9:30 The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah,” while the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah.” Such are their baseless assertions, only parroting the words of earlier disbelievers. May Allah condemn them! How can they be deluded ˹from the truth˺? Prophet Muhammad claims...

looksmax.org

This the biggest contradiction in Islam by far and is very central to the idea of Christianity. So let's make it clear

The crucifixion of Jesus is considered a "bedrock" fact. Jewish, Christian, Roman, Atheist historians and theologists all agree with the fact that Jesus Christ was crucified infact the execution of Jesus of Nazareth under Pontius Pilate (Roman prefect of Judea, ~AD 26-36) is one of the most certain facts about his life alongside his baptism. This is considered a universal fact and is not even up for debate.

Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is even confirmed by multiple different non Christian sources outside the gospel

Tacitus (Roman historian, Annals ~AD 116): "Christus, from whom the name [Christians] had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty [crucifixion] during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus."


View attachment 4989459

Josephus (Jewish historian, Antiquities of the Jews ~AD 93): Refers to Jesus as a wise man executed by Pilate via crucifixion. Josephus also clarified James as "the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ."

View attachment 4989460

And the all the sources i mentioned come from Roman, Jewish, and non Christian perspectives and they all independently reported the same event word for word as it was written in the gospels and arrived at the same conclusion. No ancient historian or even Christian haters that bashed jesus on his teachings like Celsus denied the crucifixion itself what they disagreed and disputed about was its meaning or the resurrection claims that followed.

View attachment 4989476

We have even found Archaeological evidence supports the practice: 1st-century crucified remains (e.g., the heel bone of "Yehohanan" with a nail) confirm Roman crucifixion methods in Judea matched Gospel descriptions exactly

View attachment 4989485

But Surah An-Nisa (4:157) directly conflicts with the historical evidence for Jesus's crucifixion.

View attachment 4989479

You'll only find this in Islamic texts and nowhere else. The Quran is divine revelation and thus infallible, so earlier sources (Gospels, historical records) must be mistaken, corrupted (tahrif), or illusory as per 4:157 and overall there's 0 convincing explanation and argument given for this by Muslim scholars

Some Muslims argue the verse only denies that the Jews succeeded in killing Jesus (Romans carried it out), or that Jesus didn't truly "die" in a spiritual sense, or that the appearance was deceptive by divine act or that Jesus was substituted for someone else and some modern ones like certain Ahmadis or scholars like Shabir Ally in softer readings allow for a crucifixion that didn't result in permanent death. But all mostly deflections that non islamic scholars and historian simply reject

Islamic views on Jesus's death - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 4989507

Christians see the crucifixion as central to atonement and prophecy fulfillment. The crucifixion of Christ is the main event in Christianity while Muslims see it as incompatible with a prophet's dignity and God's sovereignty so it remains a sensitive topic but that doesn't take away from the massive contraindication that exists in Quran. There are 2 more such contraindications that exist that I'll make. A thread about later

I don’t think it disproves Islam literally, I think it disproves Islam out of absurdity, it wouldn’t make sense to make billions believe that the crucifixion happened, it’s just obvious cope.

don’t forget Surah 5:116 it’s as bad as 9:30

 

[thomasjiooo]

If you say yes you disagree with Thomas Aquinas who argues that this is an error in Christian faith

Not every Christian has to agree with Thomas Aquinas

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

Was killing the children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. Good? Why couldn’t have god just told them spare the children and infants and teach them the correct faith instead infants don’t even know anything at all supporting this would be supporting clear evil which goes against the very idea of god being good.

Right just ignore the Old Testament scholars who provide evidence that ancient war texts would exaggerate accounts like this, why to Amalekites appear again in 1 Samuel 30:1 if they are wiped out
Not to mention that impurity was spread to cattle back then because they would rape the animals, that’s how it worked

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

geniune zero iq

how were they muslims this was pre islamic levant like thousands of years before islam

@Jason Voorhees this is what happens when you make religious threads you attract idiots like this

they behaved like them, same shit, attacking the israelites, boasting, then got genocided which is good

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

Not every Christian has to agree with Thomas Aquinas

Right just ignore the Old Testament scholars who provide evidence that ancient war texts would exaggerate accounts like this, why to Amalekites appear again in 1 Samuel 30:1 if they are wiped out
Not to mention that impurity was spread to cattle back then because they would rape the animals, that’s how it worked

i wish it was genocide, genocide is based on those filthy amalkites

 

[Ruinedbyfaceshape]

Not every Christian has to agree with Thomas Aquinas

Right just ignore the Old Testament scholars who provide evidence that ancient war texts would exaggerate accounts like this, why to Amalekites appear again in 1 Samuel 30:1 if they are wiped out
Not to mention that impurity was spread to cattle back then because they would rape the animals, that’s how it worked

God is still giving a divine command to murder children and infants who are innocent

And Also im not aware of any source that gives the reason that the cattle were killed due to them being raped

You’ve also completely missed every other part of the verse and have nitpicked

In terms of Divine Command Theory

What form do you subscribe to then since not all christians follow Thomas Aquinas (my fault for bringing that up I just know alot do)

I understand that war rhetoric can be hyperbolic but in 1 Samuel 15 the command itself is defined in absolute terms
The wording may be exaggerated but the command stays the same
Theres a difference

1 Samuel 30 just shows that the command of god wasnt fulfilled properly , the command still says the same God wanted them to do these actions and they didnt do it properly.

 

[Ruinedbyfaceshape]

they behaved like them, same shit, attacking the israelites, boasting, then got genocided which is good

Then why did god tell them to kill the children and infants
The Infants didnt do anything theyre innocent

 

[deludedsuhumanbald]

Then why did god tell them to kill the children and infants
The Infants didnt do anything theyre innocent

IDGAF they killed Israelite infants, God said ok you're done fuck your entire bloodline, those kids would grow up to want revenge for their faggot ancestors

 

[elliottttt]

Part 1 here

One of the biggest contradictions in Quran

In surah 9:30 The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah,” while the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah.” Such are their baseless assertions, only parroting the words of earlier disbelievers. May Allah condemn them! How can they be deluded ˹from the truth˺? Prophet Muhammad claims...

looksmax.org

This the biggest contradiction in Islam by far and is very central to the idea of Christianity. So let's make it clear

The crucifixion of Jesus is considered a "bedrock" fact. Jewish, Christian, Roman, Atheist historians and theologists all agree with the fact that Jesus Christ was crucified infact the execution of Jesus of Nazareth under Pontius Pilate (Roman prefect of Judea, ~AD 26-36) is one of the most certain facts about his life alongside his baptism. This is considered a universal fact and is not even up for debate.

Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is even confirmed by multiple different non Christian sources outside the gospel

Tacitus (Roman historian, Annals ~AD 116): "Christus, from whom the name [Christians] had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty [crucifixion] during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus."


View attachment 4989459

Josephus (Jewish historian, Antiquities of the Jews ~AD 93): Refers to Jesus as a wise man executed by Pilate via crucifixion. Josephus also clarified James as "the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ."

View attachment 4989460

And the all the sources i mentioned come from Roman, Jewish, and non Christian perspectives and they all independently reported the same event word for word as it was written in the gospels and arrived at the same conclusion. No ancient historian or even Christian haters that bashed jesus on his teachings like Celsus denied the crucifixion itself what they disagreed and disputed about was its meaning or the resurrection claims that followed.

View attachment 4989476

We have even found Archaeological evidence supports the practice: 1st-century crucified remains (e.g., the heel bone of "Yehohanan" with a nail) confirm Roman crucifixion methods in Judea matched Gospel descriptions exactly

View attachment 4989485

But Surah An-Nisa (4:157) directly conflicts with the historical evidence for Jesus's crucifixion.

View attachment 4989479

You'll only find this in Islamic texts and nowhere else. The Quran is divine revelation and thus infallible, so earlier sources (Gospels, historical records) must be mistaken, corrupted (tahrif), or illusory as per 4:157 and overall there's 0 convincing explanation and argument given for this by Muslim scholars

Some Muslims argue the verse only denies that the Jews succeeded in killing Jesus (Romans carried it out), or that Jesus didn't truly "die" in a spiritual sense, or that the appearance was deceptive by divine act or that Jesus was substituted for someone else and some modern ones like certain Ahmadis or scholars like Shabir Ally in softer readings allow for a crucifixion that didn't result in permanent death. But all mostly deflections that non islamic scholars and historian simply reject

Islamic views on Jesus's death - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 4989507

Christians see the crucifixion as central to atonement and prophecy fulfillment. The crucifixion of Christ is the main event in Christianity while Muslims see it as incompatible with a prophet's dignity and God's sovereignty so it remains a sensitive topic but that doesn't take away from the massive contraindication that exists in Quran. There are 2 more such contraindications that exist that I'll make. A thread about later

have u seen that thread where apparently in the quran their prophet got fucked by some sexually powerful black indians

 

[thomasjiooo]

i wish it was genocide, genocide is based on those filthy amalkites

Literally the most disgusting vile humans back then fr

 

[Jager]

Part 1 here

One of the biggest contradictions in Quran

In surah 9:30 The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah,” while the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah.” Such are their baseless assertions, only parroting the words of earlier disbelievers. May Allah condemn them! How can they be deluded ˹from the truth˺? Prophet Muhammad claims...

looksmax.org

This the biggest contradiction in Islam by far and is very central to the idea of Christianity. So let's make it clear

The crucifixion of Jesus is considered a "bedrock" fact. Jewish, Christian, Roman, Atheist historians and theologists all agree with the fact that Jesus Christ was crucified infact the execution of Jesus of Nazareth under Pontius Pilate (Roman prefect of Judea, ~AD 26-36) is one of the most certain facts about his life alongside his baptism. This is considered a universal fact and is not even up for debate.

Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is even confirmed by multiple different non Christian sources outside the gospel

Tacitus (Roman historian, Annals ~AD 116): "Christus, from whom the name [Christians] had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty [crucifixion] during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus."


View attachment 4989459

Josephus (Jewish historian, Antiquities of the Jews ~AD 93): Refers to Jesus as a wise man executed by Pilate via crucifixion. Josephus also clarified James as "the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ."

View attachment 4989460

And the all the sources i mentioned come from Roman, Jewish, and non Christian perspectives and they all independently reported the same event word for word as it was written in the gospels and arrived at the same conclusion. No ancient historian or even Christian haters that bashed jesus on his teachings like Celsus denied the crucifixion itself what they disagreed and disputed about was its meaning or the resurrection claims that followed.

View attachment 4989476

We have even found Archaeological evidence supports the practice: 1st-century crucified remains (e.g., the heel bone of "Yehohanan" with a nail) confirm Roman crucifixion methods in Judea matched Gospel descriptions exactly

View attachment 4989485

But Surah An-Nisa (4:157) directly conflicts with the historical evidence for Jesus's crucifixion.

View attachment 4989479

You'll only find this in Islamic texts and nowhere else. The Quran is divine revelation and thus infallible, so earlier sources (Gospels, historical records) must be mistaken, corrupted (tahrif), or illusory as per 4:157 and overall there's 0 convincing explanation and argument given for this by Muslim scholars

Some Muslims argue the verse only denies that the Jews succeeded in killing Jesus (Romans carried it out), or that Jesus didn't truly "die" in a spiritual sense, or that the appearance was deceptive by divine act or that Jesus was substituted for someone else and some modern ones like certain Ahmadis or scholars like Shabir Ally in softer readings allow for a crucifixion that didn't result in permanent death. But all mostly deflections that non islamic scholars and historian simply reject

Islamic views on Jesus's death - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 4989507

Christians see the crucifixion as central to atonement and prophecy fulfillment. The crucifixion of Christ is the main event in Christianity while Muslims see it as incompatible with a prophet's dignity and God's sovereignty so it remains a sensitive topic but that doesn't take away from the massive contraindication that exists in Quran. There are 2 more such contraindications that exist that I'll make. A thread about later

another great thread islam was a lie made my muhammad to feel powerful it is full of lies its foundation was build on lies

 

[thomasjiooo]

God is still giving a divine command to murder children and infants who are innocent

Those same people went on to genocide Israelites again, revenge would be reasonable when they’ve had to deal with Amalekites murdering their people for years, and again, it doesn’t have to be interpreted as a command for genocide because other verses like Joshua 10:20 show clear exaggeration in war texts
Idrc about animals dying, back then that’s how impurity worked, that’s why shit like pork was prohibited, it was a spiritual thing, we don’t live in the same times under the same covenant

 

[AppealGod123]

Part 1 here

One of the biggest contradictions in Quran

In surah 9:30 The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah,” while the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah.” Such are their baseless assertions, only parroting the words of earlier disbelievers. May Allah condemn them! How can they be deluded ˹from the truth˺? Prophet Muhammad claims...

looksmax.org

This the biggest contradiction in Islam by far and is very central to the idea of Christianity. So let's make it clear

The crucifixion of Jesus is considered a "bedrock" fact. Jewish, Christian, Roman, Atheist historians and theologists all agree with the fact that Jesus Christ was crucified infact the execution of Jesus of Nazareth under Pontius Pilate (Roman prefect of Judea, ~AD 26-36) is one of the most certain facts about his life alongside his baptism. This is considered a universal fact and is not even up for debate.

Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is even confirmed by multiple different non Christian sources outside the gospel

Tacitus (Roman historian, Annals ~AD 116): "Christus, from whom the name [Christians] had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty [crucifixion] during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus."


View attachment 4989459

Josephus (Jewish historian, Antiquities of the Jews ~AD 93): Refers to Jesus as a wise man executed by Pilate via crucifixion. Josephus also clarified James as "the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ."

View attachment 4989460

And the all the sources i mentioned come from Roman, Jewish, and non Christian perspectives and they all independently reported the same event word for word as it was written in the gospels and arrived at the same conclusion. No ancient historian or even Christian haters that bashed jesus on his teachings like Celsus denied the crucifixion itself what they disagreed and disputed about was its meaning or the resurrection claims that followed.

View attachment 4989476

We have even found Archaeological evidence supports the practice: 1st-century crucified remains (e.g., the heel bone of "Yehohanan" with a nail) confirm Roman crucifixion methods in Judea matched Gospel descriptions exactly

View attachment 4989485

But Surah An-Nisa (4:157) directly conflicts with the historical evidence for Jesus's crucifixion.

View attachment 4989479

You'll only find this in Islamic texts and nowhere else. The Quran is divine revelation and thus infallible, so earlier sources (Gospels, historical records) must be mistaken, corrupted (tahrif), or illusory as per 4:157 and overall there's 0 convincing explanation and argument given for this by Muslim scholars

Some Muslims argue the verse only denies that the Jews succeeded in killing Jesus (Romans carried it out), or that Jesus didn't truly "die" in a spiritual sense, or that the appearance was deceptive by divine act or that Jesus was substituted for someone else and some modern ones like certain Ahmadis or scholars like Shabir Ally in softer readings allow for a crucifixion that didn't result in permanent death. But all mostly deflections that non islamic scholars and historian simply reject

Islamic views on Jesus's death - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 4989507

Christians see the crucifixion as central to atonement and prophecy fulfillment. The crucifixion of Christ is the main event in Christianity while Muslims see it as incompatible with a prophet's dignity and God's sovereignty so it remains a sensitive topic but that doesn't take away from the massive contraindication that exists in Quran. There are 2 more such contraindications that exist that I'll make. A thread about later

if 100 people say they saw the same thing, but they were all looking at an illusion created by god, they all saying the wrong thing.

They saw someone that looks like jesus sent by god that was crucified, not jesus himself.

@Ahmed88 @dhusc

 

[dhusc]

Unlike the Quran, which is claimed to be a single direct revelation from one person, the Bible is a collection of 66 different books written by dozens of authors over 1,500 years. Christians acknowledge it was written by humans inspired by God, so variations in details like how many angels were at a tomb etc are expected and accepted besides this change thd historical fact of the crucifixion. Your reddit link is also regurgitation of the same points I made in OP

so Christians shouldn’t read the bible because it could very well be influenced by political idelogies etc.?

 

[dhusc]

if 100 people say they saw the same thing, but they were all looking at an illusion created by god, they all saying the wrong thing.

They saw someone that looks like jesus sent by god that was crucified, not jesus himself.

@Ahmed88 @dhusc

yeah not sure why people try argue science on something that claims to be a divine intervention

 

[AppealGod123]

yeah not sure why people try argue science on something that claims to be a divine intervention

"supposedly contradiction"

idk why everyone believing this, it doesnt take above room iq temp to understand

and when you debunk the main statement theyll start going in circles with other statements which you will debunk