The normalisation of cosmetic surgery is sad

[optimisticzoomer]

The most common one now being hair transplants. The narrative around hair transplants is now that they’re supposedly “empowering”. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Nowadays men are more insecure than ever, and the bs hair transplant industry doesn’t help this. Now any guy who has any sort of minor hair loss gets told “go to turkey bro”, when the sex symbols of the 20th century often had some hair loss. It’s called being a man. Footballer Matty Cash just got a hair transplant, and this is him recently before his transplant:

Guys with practically full heads of hair are getting transplants, which will not replicate natural density and will not bring any improvement (not that any is needed anyway), but instead destroy native hairs and (at best) achieve the same density as before the transplant

Same goes for any surgery. Hair transplants just seem to have the least stigma. But things like rhinoplasties are pretty normalised. The whole “looksmaxxing” trend definitely didn’t help.

Getting surgery now seems to be portrayed as some sort of choice over your own body, when the opposite is in fact true. No one would get these surgeries if it weren’t for others. They lose authority over their own body and decide to conform to what they think they should look like to superficially please others, rather than care about what, and who, really matters. If you’re getting cosmetic surgery then I’m sorry, but you’re a slave. You can be like “cope bro, looking good to people who really don’t actually care about me at all is important bro!” but that’s more of a problem on your end. Maybe have a bit of self respect and understanding of who is worth your time
@Aën Fаrhis

 

[Alexg_lover]

DNR

 

[optimisticzoomer]

DNR

2025cel

 

[Alexg_lover]

2025cel

Irrelevant to anything. You don't need org to looksmaxx and you don't exactly seem to be looksmaxxing either lol. Cosmetic surgery is based as fuck

 

[optimisticzoomer]

Cosmetic surgery is based as fuck

If you’re a loser slave who lives to please others

 

[cooldudewithasword]

why

 

[Alexg_lover]

If you’re a loser slave who lives to please others

Looks improve your dating life, making it easier to find a wife and have kids, which should ultimately be the goal in life. It also correlates with health, income, happiness, life expectancy, number of friends and negatively correlates with stress.... It's literally the highest ROI out of any form of self-improvement. Why are you even on a looksmaxxing forum if you don't believe in the blackpill and looksmaxxing LOL? Maybe switch to one where everyone seeks to ldar

 

[piec]

bros dut stopped working again

 

[optimisticzoomer]

Looks improve your dating life, making it easier to find a wife and have kids, which should ultimately be the goal in life. It also correlates with health, income, happiness, life expectancy, number of friends and negatively correlates with stress.... It's literally the highest ROI out of any form of self-improvement. Why are you even on a looksmaxxing forum if you don't believe in the blackpill and looksmaxxing LOL? Maybe switch to one where everyone seeks to ldar

You just gave the most basic newly-“blackpilled” answer ever
The point is, if all of that is only achievable after you have conformed to standards and cut up your face, it’s not really valuable to any extent

 

[optimisticzoomer]

bros dut stopped working again

Taking medication is different to surgery
It’s like getting liposuction instead of preventing becoming a fat fuck

 

[Amuzant]

Taking medication is different to surgery
It’s like getting liposuction instead of preventing becoming a fat fuck

lol i have jazz playing in the background whilst im scrolling org and it lined up perfectly with ur avi.

Nah i agree entirely with you, but hair transplants are lowk meta

 

[Alexg_lover]

You just gave the most basic newly-“blackpilled” answer ever
The point is, if all of that is only achievable after you have conformed to standards and cut up your face, it’s not really valuable to any extent

I've been blackpilled since I was a child and I've also known about the blackpill community since like 2022 but it's quite retarded to make an account merely for self-imrovement. You say "conform to standards" as if conformity is inherently a bad thing. I wouldn't even call it conformity, since what's considered aesthetically pleasing is largely rooted in evolutionary biology. Sure, some aspects of attractiveness are influenced by cultural trends, but that's generally not what cosmetic surgery addresses (or should address)

it’s not really valuable to any extent

That makes zero sense? It still yields tangible improvements to your life.....

 

[foidfondler]

sounds like cope anything after NW2 warrants an IMMEDIATE plane ticket to Turkey

 

[optimisticzoomer]

That makes zero sense? It still yields tangible improvements to your life.....

So does paying for “friends” to accompany you to places. Doesn’t mean it’s fulfilling in any sense

You’re basically buying people with surgery

 

[optimisticzoomer]

sounds like cope anything after NW2 warrants an IMMEDIATE plane ticket to Turkey

Joined: Jun 11, 2026
I’m nw1

 

[foidfondler]

Joined: Jun 11, 2026
I’m nw1

jd don't matter + I wasn't talking abt you I just meant in general shit im almost there myself if it weren't for fin I would be

 

[optimisticzoomer]

jd don't matter + I wasn't talking abt you I just meant in general shit im almost there myself if it weren't for fin I would be

I wouldn’t get one after serenitymaxxing, and certainly wouldn’t get one for NW2, and that’s not just because transplants in nw1 region look shit

 

[Alexg_lover]

So does paying for “friends” to accompany you to places. Doesn’t mean it’s fulfilling in any sense

You’re basically buying people with surgery

What a strawman. The halo effect just amplifies your underlying personality; it doesn't mean you're "buying" people. Also, that's just one of the benefits I mentioned, and it's a pretty minuscule one compared to the others

 

[foidfondler]

I wouldn’t get one after serenitymaxxing, and certainly wouldn’t get one for NW2, and that’s not just because transplants in nw1 region look shit

ye that's the thing they lwk do look shit luckily I have curly hair so I will probably just keep frauding NW1 by growing my hair out

 

[optimisticzoomer]

What a strawman. The halo effect just amplifies your underlying personality

The only personality being amplified is your insecurity
How pea-brained do you have to be to think surgery will buy you meaningful connections because it “amplifies your personality”? Don’t tell me you actually believe looks has anything to do with friendship

I feel sorry for you if you actually care about people who wouldn’t care about the real you, and only want to be around you (for their ego) after surgery

 

[arlo_420]

ye that's the thing they lwk do look shit luckily I have curly hair so I will probably just keep frauding NW1 by growing my hair out

You should get a BBL bhai (big booty latina)

 

[Alexg_lover]

The only personality being amplified is your insecurity
How pea-brained do you have to be to think surgery will buy you meaningful connections because it “amplifies your personality”? Don’t tell me you actually believe looks has anything to do with friendship

I feel sorry for you if you actually care about people who wouldn’t care about the real you, and only want to be around you (for their ego) after surgery

Dude I literally said that's the least important aspect. I listed a bunch of potential benefits, and you chose to fixate on that one because you can't refute the overall argument

 

[foidfondler]

You should get a BBL bhai (big booty latina)

im looking for one bhai although personally my main type is tall white foids

 

[arlo_420]

im looking for one bhai although personally my main type is tall white foids

"Tall white Chads"

 

[optimisticzoomer]

Dude I literally said that's the least important aspect. I listed a bunch of potential benefits, and you chose to fixate on that one because you can't refute the overall argument

You expect me to take any arguments about getting a “wife” seriously? And you disguise this utter bluepill under the pretence of “blackpill”?

No self respecting man gets married. And if you’d actually want to “date” someone who wouldn’t be with the real you, again I’m sorry

“Correlates with health”, “life expectancy”… what? Surgery? Jfl. We’re talking about cosmetic surgery here, not heart surgery. Also, the health argument for looks is utter cope

Happiness? Again, utter cope. Happiness doesn’t come from changing your face to please others. Happiness comes from within first and foremost

Stress? Wtf are you even talking about now?

And money is also cope. The rich people you see are not good looking. Even the managers etc are not good looking.

I didn’t respond because I didn’t care and wanted to save you some of the embarrassment because, quite frankly, your entire post was garbage

 

[foidfondler]

"Tall white Chads"

Ah, yes, my bad! I almost forgot

 

[Alexg_lover]

And money is also cope. The rich people you see are not good looking. Even the managers etc are not good looking.

I'm not gonna continue this conversation as it seems to lead nowhere, but read these studies:

Sierminska, E. S. (2023). Does it pay to be beautiful?. IZA World of Labor.

Watkins, L. M., & Johnston, L. (2000). Screening job applicants: The impact of physical attractiveness and application quality. International Journal of selection and assessment, 8(2), 76-84.

 

[NoaA99]

Looks improve your dating life, making it easier to find a wife and have kids, which should ultimately be the goal in life. It also correlates with health, income, happiness, life expectancy, number of friends and negatively correlates with stress.... It's literally the highest ROI out of any form of self-improvement. Why are you even on a looksmaxxing forum if you don't believe in the blackpill and looksmaxxing LOL? Maybe switch to one where everyone seeks to ldar

He is right, I see this argument left right and center from this new mainstream wave of looksmaxxers.
Almost none of you has the ability and qualifications to critically evaluate the studies you're constantly citing, nor do
most of you understand how to interpret them within their context.
I'd bet less than 1% have ever actually engaged with the said data by themselves. Fortunately, we can rely on coaches these days.


Your claim that marriage and reproduction "should be the ultimate goal" is a subjective value judgment.
You can argue from a deterministic standpoint that evolution shaped us to maximize reproductive success.
That is descriptive and value-neutral.
And yes, maybe that's true; maybe even our supposed sense of autonomy, enabled by superior intelligence, is just part of a more complex strategy serving the same goal.

However you cannot derive a universal moral obligation from a biological fact.
Just because evolution programmed us to pass on our genes doesn't create a cosmic imperative we need to follow.
As far as we can tell, the universe is value-neutral.
The survival of humanity itself is, to the best of our knowledge, neither objectively good nor objectively bad.
We simply have no way of making such a judgment.
Admittedly, this can never be proven with certainty, but neither can the opposite. We simply do not know, and almost certainly never will.
Yes, biological programming rewards reproduction through biochemical feedback that make us feel good.
But our biochemistry is already strongly dysregulated in a modern, and hyper- toxic environment.
The question arises, can we still trust those instincts reliably in an environment they potentially never evolved for?



Hypergamy and attractiveness are fundamentally relational concepts. If everyone somehow became a 9/10 in the looks department, the bar would simply shift upward, and women would continue selecting relative to a new baseline.
The halo effect, which you guys arguably fall for the most, would persist in exactly the same way, if not even more so.
That is why looksmaxxing was never supposed to go this mainstream, and simply serves a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Placing even stronger societal emphasis on physical appearance influences how people perceive one another.
You're mistaken if you believe attraction is an entirely fixed constant, unaffected by the specific social/ cultural environment in which it develops and is expressed.

Yes, looks matter; anyone with basic social awareness can recognize that.
However, the pursuit of constant external validation to compensate for feelings of inadequacy, or, in "most" cases, underlying neurobiological dysfunction, may temporarily improve individual outcomes, but it does not address the underlying causes, nor does it improve the situation collectively.
Totally obsessing over maximizing mating success through sheer presentation and fraud while constantly enforcing biological stress through endless global comparison, unnecessary medical procedures or medication most people here have little understanding of, is, for me personally, a societal regression.

 

[Alexg_lover]

He is right, I see this argument left right and center from this new mainstream wave of looksmaxxers.
Almost none of you has the ability and qualifications to critically evaluate the studies you're constantly citing, nor do
most of you understand how to interpret them within their context.

While I don't have any qualifications per se, I've done a lot of research in academic contexts to be able to understand and evaluate the data presented and the various methological limitations in diffrent studies. I still think that's a fair assumption from your part though, and I overarchingly agree with that sentiment regarding the org population.

He is right, I see this argument left right and center from this new mainstream wave of looksmaxxers.
Almost none of you has the ability and qualifications to critically evaluate the studies you're constantly citing, nor do
most of you understand how to interpret them within their context.
I'd bet less than 1% have ever actually engaged with the said data by themselves. Fortunately, we can rely on coaches these days.


Your claim that marriage and reproduction "should be the ultimate goal" is a subjective value judgment.
You can argue from a deterministic standpoint that evolution shaped us to maximize reproductive success.
That is descriptive and value-neutral.
And yes, maybe that's true; maybe even our supposed sense of autonomy, enabled by superior intelligence, is just part of a more complex strategy serving the same goal.

However you cannot derive a universal moral obligation from a biological fact.

I don't by any means think that it's a moral obligation to have children. I just think it's going to yield the most long-term happiness for most people. In that regard, I agree that my statement was too normative, but I wasn't exactly aiming to get into an elaborate debate with him. Parenthood is consistently associated with greater life satisfaction and purpose, even though it isn't correlated with day-to-day happiness to the same extent.

Just because evolution programmed us to pass on our genes doesn't create a cosmic imperative we need to follow.
As far as we can tell, the universe is value-neutral.
The survival of humanity itself is, to the best of our knowledge, neither objectively good nor objectively bad.
We simply have no way of making such a judgment.
Admittedly, this can never be proven with certainty, but neither can the opposite. We simply do not know, and almost certainly never will.
Yes, biological programming rewards reproduction through biochemical feedback that make us feel good.
But our biochemistry is already strongly dysregulated in a modern, and hyper- toxic environment.
The question arises, can we still trust those instincts reliably in an environment they potentially never evolved for?

Good questions, but they aren't too relevant now that you understand my stance better. And like I mentioned in the other post, I'm kind of done with this conversation for now. I'm just responding since you put effort into it.

Hypergamy and attractiveness are fundamentally relational concepts. If everyone somehow became a 9/10 in the looks department, the bar would simply shift upward, and women would continue selecting relative to a new baseline.
The halo effect, which you guys arguably fall for the most, would persist in exactly the same way, if not even more so.
That is why looksmaxxing was never supposed to go this mainstream, and simply serves a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Placing even stronger societal emphasis on physical appearance influences how people perceive one another.
You're mistaken if you believe attraction is an entirely fixed constant, unaffected by the specific social/ cultural environment in which it develops and is expressed.

Hmmm no I don't think that's entirely true. There are biological markers that are consistently perceived as attractive across populations. If more people developed those traits, you'd expect more people to be considered attractive, not just for the average to shift while perceptions stayed identical. Relative status matters, but it isn't the whole story. I also don't see how that's relevant to anything. You're seeking to improve your own looks, not the baseline for everyone.

Yes, looks matter; anyone with basic social awareness can recognize that.
However, the pursuit of constant external validation to compensate for feelings of inadequacy, or, in "most" cases, underlying neurobiological dysfunction, may temporarily improve individual outcomes, but it does not address the underlying causes, nor does it improve the situation collectively.
Totally obsessing over maximizing mating success through sheer presentation and fraud while constantly enforcing biological stress through endless global comparison, unnecessary medical procedures or medication most people here have little understanding of, is, for me personally, a societal regression.

I somewhat agree with this, but that doesn't mean cosmetic surgery is inherently negative or that it won't yield a positive effect on your life regardless. If your aesthetics limit you from engaging in the dating market, then I don't think it's superficial or unreasonable to undergo cosmetic surgery. A lot of current looksmaxxers have an obsession with being "perfect," which I also find silly and certainly has a poor ROI. But if you're not good looking, then I think you should do everything in your power to change that.


Sorry for not citing more along the way, but as I mentioned, I was already done with this conversation

 

[totallynotnash]

You expect me to take any arguments about getting a “wife” seriously? And you disguise this utter bluepill under the pretence of “blackpill”?

No self respecting man gets married. And if you’d actually want to “date” someone who wouldn’t be with the real you, again I’m sorry

“Correlates with health”, “life expectancy”… what? Surgery? Jfl. We’re talking about cosmetic surgery here, not heart surgery. Also, the health argument for looks is utter cope

Happiness? Again, utter cope. Happiness doesn’t come from changing your face to please others. Happiness comes from within first and foremost

Stress? Wtf are you even talking about now?

And money is also cope. The rich people you see are not good looking. Even the managers etc are not good looking.

I didn’t respond because I didn’t care and wanted to save you some of the embarrassment because, quite frankly, your entire post was garbage

This is the kind of mentality you have to adopt after your prime

 

[proxxyy11]

Think ur in the completely wrong forum bro

 

[milkshake_addict]

D.N.R

 

[Saint Casanova]

But you’re the one taking strong hair loss drugs. If it’s so empowering why don’t you stop them ?

 

[AestheticsHell]

Then eat bread let your body and face hair grow water-only showers no bath no nothing until you look like a taliban frontline unit if you feel so secure

 

[Peachy]

Just sit back, relax, and watch the world fall apart

 

[Matrix88]

It's sad cause you were told to accept yourself for who u are lmao

Life ain't a disney story bro, if u decide to go bald or get fat because "you're not insecure" then u can't cry when the world clowns you

 

[optimisticzoomer]

But you’re the one taking strong hair loss drugs. If it’s so empowering why don’t you stop them ?

Taking medication is different to surgery
It’s like getting liposuction instead of preventing becoming a fat fuck

.

 

[optimisticzoomer]

Life ain't a disney story bro

Loool. This is the exact sort of cope I am against, because Disney has slop about romance. That’s fake and thus no one should attempt to get it, which is precisely my stance

 

[optimisticzoomer]

Think ur in the completely wrong forum bro

No, you are. This is not a looksmaxxing forum

 

[Deleted member 414310]

If you’re a loser slave who lives to please others

or maybe he wants to like himself or just wants to consider himself worthy of love? maybe he wants to have better opportunities in life? or maybe etc etc, you get the point, you're tripping with this one g

 

[valentine]

lool

 

[Glorious King]

agree

classic one

 

[Glorious King]

lool

 

[optimisticzoomer]

or maybe he wants to like himself or just wants to consider himself worthy of love? maybe he wants to have better opportunities in life? or maybe etc etc, you get the point, you're tripping with this one g

Maybe stop and think for a second about what just wrote. Your entire first sentence is based on living for others. You think dislike of oneself is innate?

 

[valentine]

View attachment 5313117

wow...
i have no words

 

[Deleted member 414310]

Maybe stop and think for a second about what just wrote. Your entire first sentence is based on living for others. You think dislike of oneself is innate?

lobotomize yourself into liking yourself for what you are? yeah just ignore everything you've been fed your entire life and start finding recessed jaws and noses with humps attractive, jfl... getting a rhino or a bimax here and there, where they're clearly needed (since the two examples are results of unhealthy childhood habits most of the time + in both cases there is likely a health benefit as well) does not make you a "loser slave who lives to please others". you put clothes on when going outside during summer - also something you do to please others, right? i'm sure you'd much more enjoy chilling butt naked under a tree in your backyard but whoopsie, you're a slave and you live for others jfl at this retarded logic

"no one would get these surgeries if it weren't for others" yeah maybe think about what YOU said before you post.
nobody would use knives and forks "if there weren't for others". nobody would style their hair, nobody would pick out clothes they like etc. i guarantee you you do things in your life which you are not legally obligated to do. just draw a little reasoning line behind them figure out that you do these things for the acceptance from yourself and others (even if it's a carefully curated group). you're trying to sound nonchalant and "i live for myself, don't care about nobody else" you go girlllll, slayy and purr, so empowering, i'm sure you'd hold the same stance as a 5'5 recessed autist.

"Maybe have a bit of self respect and understanding of who is worth your time" this is just peak cope not even worth dissecting. either cope or just trying to sound cool and nonchalant again (heavily depends on what you look like irl but iirc you said you were blonde with blue eyes and 6'4 in some vegan thread lmao)

 

[Deleted member 444787]

The most common one now being hair transplants. The narrative around hair transplants is now that they’re supposedly “empowering”. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Nowadays men are more insecure than ever, and the bs hair transplant industry doesn’t help this. Now any guy who has any sort of minor hair loss gets told “go to turkey bro”, when the sex symbols of the 20th century often had some hair loss. It’s called being a man. Footballer Matty Cash just got a hair transplant, and this is him recently before his transplant:
View attachment 5293403
Guys with practically full heads of hair are getting transplants, which will not replicate natural density and will not bring any improvement (not that any is needed anyway), but instead destroy native hairs and (at best) achieve the same density as before the transplant

Same goes for any surgery. Hair transplants just seem to have the least stigma. But things like rhinoplasties are pretty normalised. The whole “looksmaxxing” trend definitely didn’t help.

Getting surgery now seems to be portrayed as some sort of choice over your own body, when the opposite is in fact true. No one would get these surgeries if it weren’t for others. They lose authority over their own body and decide to conform to what they think they should look like to superficially please others, rather than care about what, and who, really matters. If you’re getting cosmetic surgery then I’m sorry, but you’re a slave. You can be like “cope bro, looking good to people who really don’t actually care about me at all is important bro!” but that’s more of a problem on your end. Maybe have a bit of self respect and understanding of who is worth your time
@Aën Fаrhis

You lowkey got a point g

 

[optimisticzoomer]

lobotomize yourself into liking yourself for what you are? yeah just ignore everything you've been fed your entire life and start finding recessed jaws and noses with humps attractive, jfl... getting a rhino or a bimax here and there, where they're clearly needed (since the two examples are results of unhealthy childhood habits most of the time + in both cases there is likely a health benefit as well) does not make you a "loser slave who lives to please others". you put clothes on when going outside during summer - also something you do to please others, right? i'm sure you'd much more enjoy chilling butt naked under a tree in your backyard but whoopsie, you're a slave and you live for others jfl at this retarded logic

"no one would get these surgeries if it weren't for others" yeah maybe think about what YOU said before you post.
nobody would use knives and forks "if there weren't for others". nobody would style their hair, nobody would pick out clothes they like etc. i guarantee you you do things in your life which you are not legally obligated to do. just draw a little reasoning line behind them figure out that you do these things for the acceptance from yourself and others (even if it's a carefully curated group). you're trying to sound nonchalant and "i live for myself, don't care about nobody else" you go girlllll, slayy and purr, so empowering, i'm sure you'd hold the same stance as a 5'5 recessed autist.

"Maybe have a bit of self respect and understanding of who is worth your time" this is just peak cope not even worth dissecting. either cope or just trying to sound cool and nonchalant again (heavily depends on what you look like irl but iirc you said you were blonde with blue eyes and 6'4 in some vegan thread lmao)

Not reading that slop
I’ve heard all these copes before

 

[optimisticzoomer]

lobotomize yourself into liking yourself for what you are? yeah just ignore everything you've been fed your entire life and start finding recessed jaws and noses with humps attractive, jfl... getting a rhino or a bimax here and there, where they're clearly needed (since the two examples are results of unhealthy childhood habits most of the time + in both cases there is likely a health benefit as well) does not make you a "loser slave who lives to please others". you put clothes on when going outside during summer - also something you do to please others, right? i'm sure you'd much more enjoy chilling butt naked under a tree in your backyard but whoopsie, you're a slave and you live for others jfl at this retarded logic

"no one would get these surgeries if it weren't for others" yeah maybe think about what YOU said before you post.
nobody would use knives and forks "if there weren't for others". nobody would style their hair, nobody would pick out clothes they like etc. i guarantee you you do things in your life which you are not legally obligated to do. just draw a little reasoning line behind them figure out that you do these things for the acceptance from yourself and others (even if it's a carefully curated group). you're trying to sound nonchalant and "i live for myself, don't care about nobody else" you go girlllll, slayy and purr, so empowering, i'm sure you'd hold the same stance as a 5'5 recessed autist.

"Maybe have a bit of self respect and understanding of who is worth your time" this is just peak cope not even worth dissecting. either cope or just trying to sound cool and nonchalant again (heavily depends on what you look like irl but iirc you said you were blonde with blue eyes and 6'4 in some vegan thread lmao)

Not reading that slop
I’ve heard all these copes before

Actually, I’ll do the honourable thing of reading it. But I’m not gonna spend any time responding

 

[Deleted member 414310]

Not reading that slop
I’ve heard all these copes before

"i've heard it before" maybe reading one more time will help you understand just how wrong and cringe you sound, i say go for it