The nuances behind the ideal eye area and why hunter eyes aren't necessarily ideal for top appeal

[EverythingMattersCel]

What features would you say give them the normie appeal with good ratios and averageness and then what's the psl stirking factors?

what ratios are important to prevent one from looking uncanny eye area wise?

Most normie aspect of their eye areas is the PFH. They have large, expressive eyes but their PFL-PFH ratio is still high. Aspie squinchy eyes have low appeal.

Also the colouring of their eyes is ideal and high normie appeal. If they had brown eyes, it would look more aspie.

 

[AscendingHero]

Most normie aspect of their eye areas is the PFH. They have large, expressive eyes but their PFL-PFH ratio is still high. Aspie squinchy eyes have low appeal.

Very interesting point, suifuel for me since my low pfh (low trust looking) which isn't bad and more androgenic holds my eye area and pfl-pfh ratio.

Someone who does well with this normie eye area aspect for lack of better word is Alain Delon. Big wide expressive eyes that are clear light blue.

My PFL is subhuman, fuark this gay earth.

Any other important normies aspect of any eye area to have for ideal appeal?

Also the colouring of their eyes is ideal and high normie appeal. If they had brown eyes, it would look more aspie.

Very true. Coloringpilled again, there's morphs of their eye area with dark brown and they lose so much smv and strikingness.

@germanlooks

 

[AscendingHero]

Bumping this beautiful high iq thread. Few questions though

1) What are your views on aeygol sal? Chico gets halo from it, it's very praised in asia and gives a youthful look, is it important?
View attachment 1526718View attachment 1526720
2) What are the most important fat pads for the eye area besides the usual periorbital fat above the eye?

3) What would the ideal under eye support look like? define under eye support? ideally should the lower eye being fulled covred by bone or just barely showing?

4) What's the ideal eye area for mulatto guys? What's the ideal eye area for blacks?

5) What's the ideal eye color for ethnics? And what would u say is the ideal eye color for blacks and ethnics?

6) Elaborate on nasojugial folds? What are they? Personally i have some minor folds under my eye due to my shitty recessed maxila therefore inducing a recessed paranasal area.

Would fillers fix these?

@EverythingMattersCel

 

[Erik-Jón]

For context, I am reposting a comment because here I think it's worthy of its own thread. Late 2020 there was a big discussion on the ideal eye area. It felt like a big turning point in the way we discuss eye aesthetics here. The uncanny Jordan Barett-tier alien eye area was rightly being called out. There was a user (can't remember his name) that was trying to change the prevailing view... stating that "hunter eyes were a meme" and that most models had "gay alien" eyes. Make no mistake, he's right in some respects but I don't support his view completely.

See my analysis below on the ideal "hunter eye" area and how I believe it's connected to facial aesthetics + irl appeal.


My original comment quoting the OP:


Most of those guys have round orbitals and shit PFL. Long PFL and downturned medial canthus seem to be rarer than hooding. Hooding can depend on pheno also:

View attachment 1154254

This guy looks Finnish. A lot of people with his pheno have hooded eyes but shit browridge and/or lacking in other areas. In his case medium set supraorbitals and shit browridge.


In his case

View attachment 1154256

He has good PFL but shit PFL - PFH ratio. Orbitals are still too rounded.


View attachment 1154257

This guy should be self-explanatory... rounded orbitals, shit PFL, UEE


View attachment 1154263


This guy got a bit of UEE, medium set supraorbitals.


Basically, there are some prerequisites for the perfect hunter eyes. Note I say perfect because what an autist here or a normie might consider being hunter eyes won't cater for everything.

I'm ranking traits by rarity:

Very Rare:
- Downturned medial canthus (The rarest and most dimorphic trait on the eye area - think Andreas Eriksen. Not even O'Pry has a downturned medial canthus. Look at every DOM morph and there is always a downturned medial canthus).

- Forward grown infraorbitals. Very rare to see good infraorbitals. For example, on European caucaosoid phenotypes practically 99% of the population has recessed infraorbitals.

- Exceptional eye colour. Think anything with good contrast between limbal ring and iris. A10 (icy blue) on the eye colouring chart or very light green.

Rare:
- Long PFL
- No UEE - (i.e. hooding)
- Good PFL - PFH ratio
- Lowset supraorbital
- Deepset eyes - strong browridge
- Good undereye support - often overlooked and rare. Often recessed infraorbitals can lead to bad undereye support. Not 100% of the time though.
- Good eye colour (basically light eyes with decent contrast. Nothing outstanding).

Uncommon:
- Positive orbital vector
- Thick eyebrows + density
- Positively tilted eyebrows
- Lowset eyebrows (Again seems to be dependent on pheno. Med phenotypes for example tend to have lowset eyebrows. It goes hand-in-hand with lowset supraorbitals).
- Thick eyelashes + density

Cannot have:
- Scleral show
- Any kind of dark circles
- Nasojugal folds. Connects to the eye area and indirectly ends up impacting the aesthetics so including this here.
- Bad IPD. No cyclops-tier IPD and no hammerhead shark-tier IPD.
- Negative canthal tilt (I don't believe canthal tilt is a deathly failo for an eye area. In regards to the hunter eyes meme, it's impossible to have hunter eyes with an N tilt).

Bonuses/Other features:
- Aegyo sal. Not necessary for the perfect eye area. Very rare - think Lachowski but I haven't included it as a prerequisite.

I probably missed some stuff but you get the point. I don't even know if a single male model would fit all of the criteria. Also, if you were to morph all of these features onto a person it would likely end up looking uncanny. I don't even know tbh... shit's complicated. We also have to consider how features are interconnected. For example, there is a positive correlation between IPD and PFL. This is because wider FACES (bigger FWHR; think high prenatal testosterone exposure), leads to wider everything (wider nasal bridge, higher IPD and and higher PFL). A PFL mogger is more likely to have a wider IPD which can make them look uncanny. Nearly all male models with "hunter eyes" have above average IPD, but not to the point that it looks uncanny. You get the point though... and you can easily see how a potential "hunter eye" mogger can end up looking like a hammerhead shark.

The debate on ratios brings me to my next point. It's about how well the eye area harmonises with the rest of the FACE. That's why some autists get too obsessed with the hunter eyes meme. Some of the best eye areas are almond-shaped with some UEE but have other redeeming features like good eye colour + long PFL + undereye support.

It's also about appealing to averages. By normie standards, an eye area with almond shape and good colouring has way more appeal relative to a hunter eye area like De Poot. Sure, De Poot looks exotic and easily lands a job on the runway, but his extreme PCT + long PFL only have niche appeal in the sexual market. Nonetheless, it is a form of appeal and we can mire his aesthetics.

tl;dr You're right OP. Very few people in the world have "true" hunter eyes if we go by the stringent criteria above. However, hunter eyes don't necessarily equate to 99 percentile appeal. Having dimorphic eyes will likely give you an "exotic" eye area that is likely to be above average appeal. We can't doubt that. Do the best eye areas in the world have true hunter eyes? It's questionable and a complicated topic.

@EverythingMattersCel destroy my eye area please

 

[Cristiano88]

Less than 800 words. I'm just saying some aspies take the hunter eyes meme too seriously. There's nothing more to cover in eye area knowledge that hasn't been rehashed for the 10000th time. I'm saying that no one here is looking at the bigger picture. Like how are all of these features interconnected by pheno, genetic influences and hormonal profile? What does it mean for foid preferences? I'm trying not to sound abstract here... but no here should be aspiring for the wrong thing. Some tards here with average eyes have probably fallen for the alien eye meme and will get orbital decompression, canthoplasty and blepharoplasty to end up looking like an uncanny mess.

Good thread. I like how you summarised important things.
Also agree with the black and white thing.
Hurts to see i have the first 3 things you mentioned as CanNotHaves. SS, dark circles and naso jugal folds but maybe i will find a solution soon and actually work up the balls to proceed.

 

[Deleted member 17345]

For context, I am reposting a comment because here I think it's worthy of its own thread. Late 2020 there was a big discussion on the ideal eye area. It felt like a big turning point in the way we discuss eye aesthetics here. The uncanny Jordan Barett-tier alien eye area was rightly being called out. There was a user (can't remember his name) that was trying to change the prevailing view... stating that "hunter eyes were a meme" and that most models had "gay alien" eyes. Make no mistake, he's right in some respects but I don't support his view completely.

See my analysis below on the ideal "hunter eye" area and how I believe it's connected to facial aesthetics + irl appeal.


My original comment quoting the OP:


Most of those guys have round orbitals and shit PFL. Long PFL and downturned medial canthus seem to be rarer than hooding. Hooding can depend on pheno also:

View attachment 1154254

This guy looks Finnish. A lot of people with his pheno have hooded eyes but shit browridge and/or lacking in other areas. In his case medium set supraorbitals and shit browridge.


In his case

View attachment 1154256

He has good PFL but shit PFL - PFH ratio. Orbitals are still too rounded.


View attachment 1154257

This guy should be self-explanatory... rounded orbitals, shit PFL, UEE


View attachment 1154263


This guy got a bit of UEE, medium set supraorbitals.


Basically, there are some prerequisites for the perfect hunter eyes. Note I say perfect because what an autist here or a normie might consider being hunter eyes won't cater for everything.

I'm ranking traits by rarity:

Very Rare:
- Downturned medial canthus (The rarest and most dimorphic trait on the eye area - think Andreas Eriksen. Not even O'Pry has a downturned medial canthus. Look at every DOM morph and there is always a downturned medial canthus).

- Forward grown infraorbitals. Very rare to see good infraorbitals. For example, on European caucaosoid phenotypes practically 99% of the population has recessed infraorbitals.

- Exceptional eye colour. Think anything with good contrast between limbal ring and iris. A10 (icy blue) on the eye colouring chart or very light green.

Rare:
- Long PFL
- No UEE - (i.e. hooding)
- Good PFL - PFH ratio
- Lowset supraorbital
- Deepset eyes - strong browridge
- Good undereye support - often overlooked and rare. Often recessed infraorbitals can lead to bad undereye support. Not 100% of the time though.
- Good eye colour (basically light eyes with decent contrast. Nothing outstanding).

Uncommon:
- Positive orbital vector
- Thick eyebrows + density
- Positively tilted eyebrows
- Lowset eyebrows (Again seems to be dependent on pheno. Med phenotypes for example tend to have lowset eyebrows. It goes hand-in-hand with lowset supraorbitals).
- Thick eyelashes + density

Cannot have:
- Scleral show
- Any kind of dark circles
- Nasojugal folds. Connects to the eye area and indirectly ends up impacting the aesthetics so including this here.
- Bad IPD. No cyclops-tier IPD and no hammerhead shark-tier IPD.
- Negative canthal tilt (I don't believe canthal tilt is a deathly failo for an eye area. In regards to the hunter eyes meme, it's impossible to have hunter eyes with an N tilt).

Bonuses/Other features:
- Aegyo sal. Not necessary for the perfect eye area. Very rare - think Lachowski but I haven't included it as a prerequisite.

I probably missed some stuff but you get the point. I don't even know if a single male model would fit all of the criteria. Also, if you were to morph all of these features onto a person it would likely end up looking uncanny. I don't even know tbh... shit's complicated. We also have to consider how features are interconnected. For example, there is a positive correlation between IPD and PFL. This is because wider FACES (bigger FWHR; think high prenatal testosterone exposure), leads to wider everything (wider nasal bridge, higher IPD and and higher PFL). A PFL mogger is more likely to have a wider IPD which can make them look uncanny. Nearly all male models with "hunter eyes" have above average IPD, but not to the point that it looks uncanny. You get the point though... and you can easily see how a potential "hunter eye" mogger can end up looking like a hammerhead shark.

The debate on ratios brings me to my next point. It's about how well the eye area harmonises with the rest of the FACE. That's why some autists get too obsessed with the hunter eyes meme. Some of the best eye areas are almond-shaped with some UEE but have other redeeming features like good eye colour + long PFL + undereye support.

It's also about appealing to averages. By normie standards, an eye area with almond shape and good colouring has way more appeal relative to a hunter eye area like De Poot. Sure, De Poot looks exotic and easily lands a job on the runway, but his extreme PCT + long PFL only have niche appeal in the sexual market. Nonetheless, it is a form of appeal and we can mire his aesthetics.

tl;dr You're right OP. Very few people in the world have "true" hunter eyes if we go by the stringent criteria above. However, hunter eyes don't necessarily equate to 99 percentile appeal. Having dimorphic eyes will likely give you an "exotic" eye area that is likely to be above average appeal. We can't doubt that. Do the best eye areas in the world have true hunter eyes? It's questionable and a complicated topic.

high iq

 

[Deleted member 17429]

What features would you say give them the normie appeal with good ratios and averageness and then what's the psl stirking factors?

what ratios are important to prevent one from looking uncanny eye area wise?

hunter eyes in general are just uncanny. i know someone with hunter eyes, and someone with an eye area like zayn's and the latter has more compliments about his eyes

 

[Deleted member 17429]

6) Elaborate on nasojugial folds? What are they? Personally i have some minor folds under my eye due to my shitty recessed maxila therefore inducing a recessed paranasal area.

Would fillers fix these?

No. Get bimax.

 

[Racky]

Not him but you asked a lot of great questions that need answering.
I will give my opinions on a few as a bump so more knowledgeable users might see it. Most of this will be water to you though, or wrong.

4) What's the ideal eye area for mulatto guys? What's the ideal eye area for blacks

For mulattos it's hard to define a single ideal eye area, because there are so many possibilities with mixed race people in how they inherit traits from the races they are descended from.
In general the same standards as for blacks, but because of European admixture the same standards as for whites can apply. Personally I don't think blue eye color looks good with blacks generally. With mulattos though, it contrasts very well with yellowish or light reddish skin. Brian Whittaker is a good example of good eye area for mulattos. Meeks has a very good eye shape but I can't say him because his eyebrows are really lacking in density, and for mulattos a lot of the appeal comes from contrast/coloring, which Whittaker's eye area really exemplifies. XXXTENTACION is good too for a T50 example.

Blacks :
35+ mm PFL
slightly elevated lateral canthus caused by high set cheekbones
medium set eyebrows that are dense and dark
Some upper eyelid fat
Good undereye support

If you are black, wide PFL is much more important imo, and it needs to be at least 35+ to be striking. 31-33 is average for blacks and will look "normal". I'm not saying that just because high PFL is striking, but also because higher PFL seems to harmonize well with other black features. As @Korea pointed out in his thread black men can get away with higher ES Ratios because they don't have the biggest cheekbones, I think there is that + the fact that there is a tendency for high PFL which just harmonizes well with African tendencies for high IPD. Even the nose looks like it has have higher alar width with lower PFL, so high PFL could even harmonize with African tendencies for high alar width, or I might be imagining things. The nose just seems to be taking even more space in the midface with lower PFL and when intercanthal width is much higher than alar width. So in general for blacks PFL is important not just as a striking feature but also for harmony.

Hamadryas eyes can work well too if you want a more masc look(see Broderick Hunter) but most black men don't have the frontal bones for that and it's not necessary for good appeal imo.

5) What's the ideal eye color for ethnics? And what would u say is the ideal eye color for blacks and ethnics?

Mulattos : blue
Blacks : hazel / light brown for most. Green for people with peanut butter complexion

1) What are your views on aeygol sal? Chico gets halo from it, it's very praised in asia and gives a youthful look, is it important?

Works for some people as long as it doesn't give off a droopy look.
I have a theory that in my own experience it's a failo because it almost touches the fold over my medial canthus. With people like Lachowski, its fold sits well below the medial canthus so it doesn't cause a droopy look. But when the inner end of the aegyo sal's fold sits too close to your medial canthus or its fold, it affects how canthal tilt is perceived and gives off a droopier look. Imo the aegyo sal's fold should ideally not be too close to your eyes.
I don't think they are important.

 

[Racky]

For example, there is a positive correlation between IPD and PFL. This is because wider FACES (bigger FWHR; think high prenatal testosterone exposure), leads to wider everything (wider nasal bridge, higher IPD and and higher PFL). A PFL mogger is more likely to have a wider IPD which can make them look uncanny. Nearly all male models with "hunter eyes" have above average IPD, but not to the point that it looks uncanny. You get the point though... and you can easily see how a potential "hunter eye" mogger can end up looking like a hammerhead shark

Exactly. The correlation isn't absolute though and there are many other things that contribute to all of this. Asians on average have wide IPD but low PFL.

I also think high PFL makes wide IPD not look uncanny by itself because it reduces intercanthal width. High PFL harmonizes wide IPD.
In his ideal ratios for black men thread , Korea explained black men can get away with ES ratio of .51, according to him because :
Africans tend to have to most high-set cheekbones, but not the biggest

I think the fact that higher PFL is more common in many African populations also plays a part. With wide PFL, you could have .51 ESR like Mukasa but it doesn't matter because the PFL harmonizes the wide IPD.

 

[Racky]

For context, I am reposting a comment because here I think it's worthy of its own thread. Late 2020 there was a big discussion on the ideal eye area. It felt like a big turning point in the way we discuss eye aesthetics here. The uncanny Jordan Barett-tier alien eye area was rightly being called out. There was a user (can't remember his name) that was trying to change the prevailing view... stating that "hunter eyes were a meme" and that most models had "gay alien" eyes. Make no mistake, he's right in some respects but I don't support his view completely.

See my analysis below on the ideal "hunter eye" area and how I believe it's connected to facial aesthetics + irl appeal.


My original comment quoting the OP:


Most of those guys have round orbitals and shit PFL. Long PFL and downturned medial canthus seem to be rarer than hooding. Hooding can depend on pheno also:

View attachment 1154254

This guy looks Finnish. A lot of people with his pheno have hooded eyes but shit browridge and/or lacking in other areas. In his case medium set supraorbitals and shit browridge.


In his case

View attachment 1154256

He has good PFL but shit PFL - PFH ratio. Orbitals are still too rounded.


View attachment 1154257

This guy should be self-explanatory... rounded orbitals, shit PFL, UEE


View attachment 1154263


This guy got a bit of UEE, medium set supraorbitals.


Basically, there are some prerequisites for the perfect hunter eyes. Note I say perfect because what an autist here or a normie might consider being hunter eyes won't cater for everything.

I'm ranking traits by rarity:

Very Rare:
- Downturned medial canthus (The rarest and most dimorphic trait on the eye area - think Andreas Eriksen. Not even O'Pry has a downturned medial canthus. Look at every DOM morph and there is always a downturned medial canthus).

- Forward grown infraorbitals. Very rare to see good infraorbitals. For example, on European caucaosoid phenotypes practically 99% of the population has recessed infraorbitals.

- Exceptional eye colour. Think anything with good contrast between limbal ring and iris. A10 (icy blue) on the eye colouring chart or very light green.

Rare:
- Long PFL
- No UEE - (i.e. hooding)
- Good PFL - PFH ratio
- Lowset supraorbital
- Deepset eyes - strong browridge
- Good undereye support - often overlooked and rare. Often recessed infraorbitals can lead to bad undereye support. Not 100% of the time though.
- Good eye colour (basically light eyes with decent contrast. Nothing outstanding).

Uncommon:
- Positive orbital vector
- Thick eyebrows + density
- Positively tilted eyebrows
- Lowset eyebrows (Again seems to be dependent on pheno. Med phenotypes for example tend to have lowset eyebrows. It goes hand-in-hand with lowset supraorbitals).
- Thick eyelashes + density

Cannot have:
- Scleral show
- Any kind of dark circles
- Nasojugal folds. Connects to the eye area and indirectly ends up impacting the aesthetics so including this here.
- Bad IPD. No cyclops-tier IPD and no hammerhead shark-tier IPD.
- Negative canthal tilt (I don't believe canthal tilt is a deathly failo for an eye area. In regards to the hunter eyes meme, it's impossible to have hunter eyes with an N tilt).

Bonuses/Other features:
- Aegyo sal. Not necessary for the perfect eye area. Very rare - think Lachowski but I haven't included it as a prerequisite.

I probably missed some stuff but you get the point. I don't even know if a single male model would fit all of the criteria. Also, if you were to morph all of these features onto a person it would likely end up looking uncanny. I don't even know tbh... shit's complicated. We also have to consider how features are interconnected. For example, there is a positive correlation between IPD and PFL. This is because wider FACES (bigger FWHR; think high prenatal testosterone exposure), leads to wider everything (wider nasal bridge, higher IPD and and higher PFL). A PFL mogger is more likely to have a wider IPD which can make them look uncanny. Nearly all male models with "hunter eyes" have above average IPD, but not to the point that it looks uncanny. You get the point though... and you can easily see how a potential "hunter eye" mogger can end up looking like a hammerhead shark.

The debate on ratios brings me to my next point. It's about how well the eye area harmonises with the rest of the FACE. That's why some autists get too obsessed with the hunter eyes meme. Some of the best eye areas are almond-shaped with some UEE but have other redeeming features like good eye colour + long PFL + undereye support.

It's also about appealing to averages. By normie standards, an eye area with almond shape and good colouring has way more appeal relative to a hunter eye area like De Poot. Sure, De Poot looks exotic and easily lands a job on the runway, but his extreme PCT + long PFL only have niche appeal in the sexual market. Nonetheless, it is a form of appeal and we can mire his aesthetics.

tl;dr You're right OP. Very few people in the world have "true" hunter eyes if we go by the stringent criteria above. However, hunter eyes don't necessarily equate to 99 percentile appeal. Having dimorphic eyes will likely give you an "exotic" eye area that is likely to be above average appeal. We can't doubt that. Do the best eye areas in the world have true hunter eyes? It's questionable and a complicated topic.

bumping this high IQ thread

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Over for my eye area JFL