There is no heaven

[IBlamePhaggots]

- But you can’t quantify that ? We can quantify probabilistic theories on physical and biological matters as they are mostly measurable. Can’t measure god jfl.

- It doesn’t, but it is a leading argument as to how we exist with such low probabilities.

- Lots of things were thought to be illogical before we could fully understand them. One such case was subatomic particles and quantum physics.

- Maybe, maybe not. What is the energy of life exactly ? Perhaps it’s that energy that resulted in carbon life forming billions of years ago from rocks and debris? ( Once again the chemical reactions that rendered the first bacterium would’ve been so rare to occur)

- Why can’t heaven or hell he real if let’s say god exists. Perhaps heaven or hell is more metaphoric and spiritual rather than the physical illustrations we see? Again it’s good to be open minded with that. There could be alternate dimensions that exist within our universe. Perhaps some of those could be heaven or hell?

- I wouldn’t say it’s a logical fallacy though? It’s simply one of the many theories that explain why we exist and these seemingly tiny probabilities that make it nearly mathematical impossible for our existence.

- There are some theories on life after death that could indicate the existence of heaven/hell. Cliche, but many people who died and were brought back to life report seeing a light or tunnel even if brain activity showed no signals. Some people even reported hearing what docs and relatives were saying when they died and even saw their own bodies. Could that be the soul?

Also this was also a rage bait blackpilled post but i still like having high IQ conversations where possible

 

[MaestheticMaso]

-the biggest thing for me is that there are theories with logical basis that could explain abiogenesis (the sporadic creation of life)

Abiogenesis - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

If a naturally scientific theory has a plausible and logical explanation for how life couldve arisen, i will believe that over god who is founded on essentially nothing other than the LACK of a good explanation (keep in mind god was first written about thousands of years ago before the sciences had developed)

-god being a leading argument doesnt mean that it has credibility, and most people that believe in a specific religion are either indoctrinated from a young age or too stupid to question it

-heaven and hell can be real,
If god exists, but ONLY if god exists. Its much more plausible that heaven and hell were a concept created by humans to give life meaning and create order, than heaven and hell actually existing as places above the laws of nature.

as i said before heaven and hell have no reason to exist

Whilst the idea of a god exists because there needed to be some form of explanation as to how life arose.


- Id say god is a logical fallacy because he goes against all natural sciences/laws of nature. For example creation out of nothing is illogical because conservation of mass and energy (which are fundamentally the same thing mur mur mut whatever)

A being existing with the ability to make things happen is illogical because making something happen requires energy (or mass which can be converted to energy through nuclear explosions)

So god must have had mass, or energy, both of which are illogical because God existed before the universe.

- the alternate dimensions/multiverse is really just a theory, that some scientist like brian cox think may be theoretically possible but it really isnt founded on any fact, and once again its a logical fallacy because how would we get to these alternate dimensions (do we have mass? energy? If we are not physical then how are we being? yada yada yada)

-I really cant explain the last part although its always been something i found fascinating

- some studies have found, that in preparation for death the body releases a whole load of chemicals, which may explain the “light at the end of the tunnel” stuff, and also the feeling of euphoria

This study found there is a surge in gamma waves released by the brain in the moments before death

Human brains show larger-than-life activity at moment of death

The brains of dying people may spark to sudden life in their final moments. Two apparently brain-dead people taken off of life-support showed sudden spikes in neural activity, according to a study …

thehill.com

Gamma waves indicate conscious thought, i dont really know what the above study indicates past that but i just thought it was interesting to demonstrate that there is definitely physical, internal changes just prior to death that could explain the phenomena you mentioned

If a person believe that death is a “bright light at the end of the tunnel” that may be theyre body makes them see, or it may be what they think about just prior to death whilst all these chemicals and gamma waves are being released and what not, giving rise to that vision. Although other scientist have argued that its a non detectable experience

Tbh Im not sure on that last one

The Theory of abiogenesis suggests that somehow due to the harsh nature of the planet back then, multiple reactions lead to simple organic matter forming into RNA which eventually lead to DNA formation and the first cell. But once again, my point is that the likelihood for all those reactions to occur perfectly which would lead to life is so rare. It took us well into the 1900s to do the same in a lab. If we’re going by science, I think the first life forms/bacteria came from an asteroid.

Incidentally, the pioneer of the Genome project believed in Christianity. He stated my point that the intricacies of the natural world can only suggest a higher power responsible. One such intricacy is our DNA.

I mean around the Big Bang and before then, our understanding of physics sort of breaks down. So the laws of nature may not be absolute. Perhaps deep in the universe, this is also the case. We just haven’t found out yet. Likewise, with other universities/dimensions, the laws of physics may very well be different to ours. There’s a theory that collisions between two or more higher dimensional objects lead to the Big Bang which is very interesting.

Technically our laws of nature started with the Big Bang. Before that we can never understand about mass, energy ect as we don’t know. My personal belief is that a higher being caused the Big Bang to occur; thus resulting in our laws of nature and explaining how, against all odds, life started on a planet perfect for us.

 

[vanillaicecream]

Must be a hell of a coincidence to have probabilities that stoop so so close to zero?

We ultimately can’t speculate what god is. It well might not be that traditional father looking figure with a beard jfl. It may be something we cannot comprehend. An energy perhaps ? A reason why Muslims aren’t allowed pictures of Allah is because it’s thought that Allah is beyond human understanding, due to its sheer transcendence.

So, what gave us life then ?

Why were the probabilities close to zero in the first place in a universe run by an omnipotent god? Lmao, if there's a God there then anything would be possible and we wouldn't be talking about how unlikely it was for us to exist. The probability of winning the lottery is also close to zero and yet someone always does and it doesn't take a god for that, have you considered that this universe just sort of won the lottery of universes? Stop using retarded arguments such as "then what did this and what did that" as if God is an answer. Lack of answers doesn't lead to answers.

 

[vanillaicecream]

You will see that you are wrong. I can’t prove it but neither can you prove it.

He doesn't need to prove anything, you are the one with an absurd proposition of something that defies reality as we know it so you need something positively indicative of it instead of hoping it will be proven false. The fact that it is real shouldn't be the default assumption unless you have a good reason to think so. What is that reason?

 

[vanillaicecream]

@MaestheticMaso

laughing because you have no counter to that? Lmao, glad you realized that it's downright retarded and self-refuting to say that the fact that the odds of us existing were astronomically low is an argument in favor of god when in an universe with an omnipotent God there shouldn't be such thing as improbabilities. How funny that God would have to fine tune anything and wouldn't be able to make things happen under a different set of circumstances.

 

[Deleted member 13626]

I imagine God as an ocean and everyone is a droplet from him. He basically made us , gave us free will then stopped giving a fuck. Perhaps it's not even an entity/being or conscious but like a power plant that is powering the universe, a battery. Why are we on planet earth? Idk

The mainstream view that there is only earth, hell and heaven and God is active in all of this is flawed and mainstream religion contradicts itself. There most likely is an afterlife but not how the mainstream religions portray it to be

''1 John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.''

So an evil being is controlling earth? Possibly being the cause on why some are born handicapped, subhuman , the cause of suffering etc.

It makes sense that elite people, bankers, actors/singers, billionaires, royal families worship something dark with evidence of it. Now why isn't God doing something about it? People have been waiting for ages. Perhaps this is our wrong doing. We came to this planet because of our choice and now we are trapped here with our memories wiped.

Makes you think about reports of: near death experiences, pre birth and past lives memories, dmt trips, past life regression sessions, leaked cia documents on astral projection/remote viewing and other hidden practices. That are labeled ''satanic'' by churches/mosques etc.

Majority of religious buildings are now businesses. In majority of religions, it's forbidden to search for answers, either from other religions or science. Why would a God not want us to seek knowledge ? Why does Christianity labels its followers as sheep ?

They're hiding something from us. 100%. They want to distract us with the easy way to ''heaven'' because if people woke up to the truth, it would shatter majority of people's perspective on their life and nature of reality.

We only have clues and we can only speculate. Any subhuman coming to me saying : ''alLah wIll PunISH U !!!!!'' or ''tHerE iS no aFterLife , kEep coping!'' are actually coping. You can't prove nor disprove the afterlife. Only clues. And the clues point towards an afterlife existing if you research hard enough.

https://www.trickedbythelight.com/tbtl/index.html

I'm neither a sciencecel nor a religioncel

@Sprinkles

 

[MaestheticMaso]

Why were the probabilities close to zero in the first place in a universe run by an omnipotent god? Lmao, if there's a God there then anything would be possible and we wouldn't be talking about how unlikely it was for us to exist. The probability of winning the lottery is also close to zero and yet someone always does and it doesn't take a god for that, have you considered that this universe just sort of won the lottery of universes? Stop using retarded arguments such as "then what did this and what did that" as if God is an answer. Lack of answers doesn't lead to answers.

Firstly you can’t compare the probability of winning the lottery and the odds that we exist. The latter is ridiculously close to zero and even then it’s very hard to measure compared to a simple lottery that has a fixed, constant probability with only a few stochastic variables within a simple probability function.

I’m was referring that the probability of life occurring naturally without interference of a higher power is so tiny. If you add the influence of a higher power, then essentially you don’t need to consider the probability as it goes to 1 due to god’s omnipotence.

Lack of answers leads to hypotheses and theories. They can be both scientific and spiritual. What the fuck do you want jfl ? I can’t just prove that God exists like I’m proving Newtons laws of motions. Fucking atheists are so stubborn to even have a tiny bit of an open mind.

 

[MaestheticMaso]

@MaestheticMaso

laughing because you have no counter to that? Lmao, glad you realized that it's downright retarded and self-refuting to say that the fact that the odds of us existing were astronomically low is an argument in favor of god when in an universe with an omnipotent God there shouldn't be such thing as improbabilities. How funny that God would have to fine tune anything and wouldn't be able to make things happen under a different set of circumstances.

You don’t understand I’m referring to the probability under the conditions of nature, assuming god doesn’t exist. Once you add God to the equation, the whole thing flips since essentially he set out the instructions for life to occur.

 

[LooksThinker]

Nihilism and absurdism mogs shit out of atheism or religions.

 

[Sprinkles]

I imagine God as an ocean and everyone is a droplet from him. He basically made us , gave us free will then stopped giving a fuck. Why are we on planet earth? Idk

The mainstream view that there is only earth, hell and heaven and God is active in all of this is flawed and mainstream religion contradicts itself. There most likely is an afterlife but not how the mainstream religions portray it to be

''1 John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.''

So an evil being is controlling earth? Possibly being the cause on why some are born handicapped, subhuman , the cause of suffering etc.

It makes sense that elite people, bankers, actors/singers, billionaires, royal families worship something dark with evidence of it. Now why isn't God doing something about it? People have been waiting for ages. Perhaps this is our wrong doing. We came to this planet because of our choice and now we are trapped here with our memories wiped.

Makes you think about reports of: near death experiences, pre birth and past lives memories, dmt trips, past life regression sessions, leaked cia documents on astral projection/remote viewing and other hidden practices.

They're hiding something from us. 100%. They want to distract us with the easy way to ''heaven'' because if people woke up to the truth, it would shatter majority of people's perspective on their life and nature of reality.

We only have clues and we can only speculate. Any subhuman coming to me saying : ''alLah wIll PunISH U !!!!!'' or ''tHerE iS no aFterLife , kEep coping!'' are actually coping. You can't prove nor disprove the afterlife. Only clues. And the clues point towards an afterlife existing if you research hard enough.

https://www.trickedbythelight.com/tbtl/index.html

@Sprinkles

god is the hivemind of every concious/souled being

we are really just fractured personalities of god,

to be god is to experience the perspective of every conscious being all at once

 

[vanillaicecream]

Firstly you can’t compare the probability of winning the lottery and the odds that we exist. The latter is ridiculously close to zero and even then it’s very hard to measure compared to a simple lottery that has a fixed, constant probability with only a few stochastic variables within a simple probability function.

I’m was referring that the probability of life occurring naturally without interference of a higher power is so tiny. If you add the influence of a higher power, then essentially you don’t need to consider the probability as it goes to 1 due to god’s omnipotence.

Lack of answers lead to hypotheses and theories. They can be both scientific and spiritual. What the fuck do you want jfl ? I can’t just prove that God exists like I’m proving Newtons laws of motions. Fucking atheists are so stubborn to even have a tiny bit of an open mind.

Close to zero you say? I'm not impressed unless the possibility was literally zero pal, then you get to appeal to an omnipotent god. The probability wasn't 1 as soon as a God intervened, can you show that it wasn't always one to however many trillions even under naturalism?

It becomes even more likely when you have an incomprehensible large universe with things colliding and forming patterns over an incomprehensibly long period of time, then things suddenly aren't so improbable are they? If you're going to appeal to a god then why did it take so long for us to come into existence, why did it take billions of years for the universe to form the ingredients of what would lead to our existence, why would we need to adapt to this tiny corner of the universe, why would we be obliterated as soon as we step out of this tiny corner, why is it like that if it was all so precisely calibrated with us in mind?

And the point isn't to compare winning the lottery vs the universe existing like that, the point is there shouldn't be any low probability in an universe where a god has always been in charge. Or are you suggesting that God suddenly popped into existing to be the hero and make our existence possible? If so I can do the same with the universe itself and say it just exists by necessity and could never be any other way, it exists because it just IS and I don't need to add complicated entities that would need an explanation themselves.

 

[Deleted member 13626]

god is the hivemind of every concious/souled being

we are really just fractured personalities of god,

to be god is to experience the perspective of every conscious being all at once

But what and why is this sick game of duality? Are we in some sort of limbo? This realm is both evil and good. Moon/Sun ,Light/Darkness, Good/Evil, Water/Fire , Beautiful/Ugly. Why does it exist? Some sort of sick joke or a game? That's what i meant as well, we're like shattered pieces of God. Now shattered may not be a bad thing. I wouldn't like to sit with God all day, i would like to explore the universe and be independent and from time to time come back to him. But now the majority of people have no memory before being born except a few ones indicating that our consciousness got trapped somehow in this realm and can only leave temporarely in meditation, dreams, dmt trips and permanently when we die.

Are those beings that trapped us and still trap us here aliens/demons? The matrix wasn't a sci fi movie, it's meaning still holds up today and forever.

2 CORINTHIANS 11:14: And no wonder, since Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

Be careful who you trust when you die.

I would like an atheist death to go forever to sleep and not be conscious as well. But judging by hidden clues, that may not be the case. Only death will give us answers. But obe and nde reports suggest there is an afterlife. Brutal, we can't get a break. My life is decent, i don't want to reincarnate into a subhuman or indian or handicapped person or in south america and be on liveleak

 

[vanillaicecream]

You don’t understand I’m referring to the probability under the conditions of nature, assuming god doesn’t exist. Once you add God to the equation, the whole thing flips since essentially he set out the instructions for life to occur.

If those probabilities were observed UNDER NATURALISM then you've already assumed naturalism and that's the scenario under which you're coming to conclusions, you don't get to then flip the script and appeal to a god to explain why the low odds were overcome because if there's a God behind the universe then he would have always been there and not intervened to specifically make things happen when they weren't likely. And if he was always there why would he need to calibrate and fine tune anything in the first place?

Plus the outcome of a system is dependent on the system, the fact that these are the ingredients needed for life is self-evident. You're just saying these are the ingredients for cake, and nothing else would yield cake. What does that say about an all powerful mind being behind it? Can you show that a different system wouldn't emerge under a different set of circumstances and ingredients? Unless you can show that these were the intended results then your argument is useless and you're just saying "here's something that exists and what allows for its existence". It's self-evident and exists by necessity for all we know.

 

[MaestheticMaso]

Close to zero you say? I'm not impressed unless the possibility was literally zero pal, then you get to appeal to an omnipotent god. The probability wasn't 1 as soon as a God intervened, can you show that it wasn't always one to however many trillions even under naturalism?

It becomes even more likely when you have an incomprehensible large universe with things colliding and forming patterns over an incomprehensibly long period of time, then things suddenly aren't so improbable are they? If you're going to appeal to a god then why did it take so long for us to come into existence, why did it take billions of years for the universe to form the ingredients of what would lead to our existence, why would we need to adapt to this tiny corner of the universe, why would we be obliterated as soon as we step out of this tiny corner, why is it like that if it was all so precisely calibrated with us in mind?

And the point isn't to compare winning the lottery vs the universe existing like that, the point is there shouldn't be any low probability in a universe where a god has always been in charge. Or are you suggesting that God suddenly popped into existing to be the hero and make our existence possible? If so I can do the same with the universe itself and say it just exists by necessity and could never be any other way, it exists because it just IS and I don't need to add complicated entities that would need an explanation themselves.

Okay, let’s say that you’ll play a game and that there is a 1/10,000 chance of winning some money. You and any healthy person would be thinking it’s so unlikely I’d win, I shouldn’t even bother ect. But when the probability of life occurring is so much smaller, “you’re not impressed”? God did not intervene in anything, the theory is that he created life, he created the universe and Big Bang under his instructions. As he’s omnipotent, the probability should be 1!!

How can you be so confident that all this took an incomprehensibly long period of time when this could still be the beginning stages of our universe. It could exist for trillions and trillions more years, so perhaps in the grand scheme of things, life starting on earth didn’t take too long. And if God fundamentally set out the instructions for life and the universe, who am I to argue why it took so long, or why our galaxy ect?

God didn’t just pop up at any random time. God started that Big bang and laid out the foundations for life to occur! That’s the belief at least.

 

[MaestheticMaso]

If those probabilities were observed UNDER NATURALISM then you've already assumed naturalism and that's the scenario under which you're coming to conclusions, you don't get to then flip the script and appeal to a god to explain why the low odds were overcome because if there's a God behind the universe then he would have always been there and not intervened to specifically make things happen when they weren't likely. And if he was always there why would he need to calibrate and fine tune anything in the first place?

Plus the outcome of a system is dependent on the system, the fact that these are the ingredients needed for life is self-evident. You're just saying these are the ingredients for cake, and nothing else would yield cake. What does that say about an all powerful mind being behind it? Can you show that a different system wouldn't emerge under a different set of circumstances and ingredients? Unless you can show that these were the intended results then your argument is useless and you're just saying "here's something that exists and what allows for its existence". It's self-evident and exists by necessity for all we know.

JFL all your arguments are just saying that I can’t keep an open mind to many unanswered questions. I should just fully follow the scenario of naturalism when referring to science and probabilistic theories of life? All this is very multifaceted and there’s no reason why you can’t combine naturalism and God in theory! This is what Francis Collins of the Human Genome project beloved.

Anyways, I’d argue against what you said a bit later.

 

[IBlamePhaggots]

The Theory of abiogenesis suggests that somehow due to the harsh nature of the planet back then, multiple reactions lead to simple organic matter forming into RNA which eventually lead to DNA formation and the first cell. But once again, my point is that the likelihood for all those reactions to occur perfectly which would lead to life is so rare. It took us well into the 1900s to do the same in a lab. If we’re going by science, I think the first life forms/bacteria came from an asteroid.

Incidentally, the pioneer of the Genome project believed in Christianity. He stated my point that the intricacies of the natural world can only suggest a higher power responsible. One such intricacy is our DNA.

I mean around the Big Bang and before then, our understanding of physics sort of breaks down. So the laws of nature may not be absolute. Perhaps deep in the universe, this is also the case. We just haven’t found out yet. Likewise, with other universities/dimensions, the laws of physics may very well be different to ours. There’s a theory that collisions between two or more higher dimensional objects lead to the Big Bang which is very interesting.

Technically our laws of nature started with the Big Bang. Before that we can never understand about mass, energy ect as we don’t know. My personal belief is that a higher being caused the Big Bang to occur; thus resulting in our laws of nature and explaining how, against all odds, life started on a planet perfect for us.

I shall continue to believe in it being coincidence because the big bang (under current known natural laws of science) is essentially impossible

Whilst abiogenesis (while very low chance), is possible within the Laws of the Natural sciences that we are aware of

Also I think alot of people talk about scientist becoming religious due to seeing the intricacies but dont actually delve into the beliefs of the scientists

The scientists nearly never follow a certain religion, they just decide there must be a higher being because the world is so intricate



I actually think this is the thing that is most overlooked though

1. Everything has a tendency towards equilibrium, the intricacies of the earth and plants and bodies could be explained through evolution, evolution is driven by environment, thats why all of our organs and stuff are “perfectly designed” to fit all the things we do, the same way trees are the way they are, and we have the carbon and nitrogen cycle, etc

2. There are Billions of different planets which exist within the whole universe. Probably so many that it essentially ensures that at least one will have life, yea, you can say “so many consequences is INSANELY low chance”

But look at how many opportunities there are for that insanely low chance thing to take place

Billions of planets and solar systems in a theoretically infinite universe, eventually there was going to be One planet which could harbour life, and that planet was earth. So actually the chance for existence isnt that small baring in mind the grand scheme of the universe

Id bet you, we will eventually have extra terrestrial communications, and they will have a similar story about a god with some other waffled story about how the world came to be

 

[IBlamePhaggots]

Close to zero you say? I'm not impressed unless the possibility was literally zero pal, then you get to appeal to an omnipotent god. The probability wasn't 1 as soon as a God intervened, can you show that it wasn't always one to however many trillions even under naturalism?

It becomes even more likely when you have an incomprehensible large universe with things colliding and forming patterns over an incomprehensibly long period of time, then things suddenly aren't so improbable are they? If you're going to appeal to a god then why did it take so long for us to come into existence, why did it take billions of years for the universe to form the ingredients of what would lead to our existence, why would we need to adapt to this tiny corner of the universe, why would we be obliterated as soon as we step out of this tiny corner, why is it like that if it was all so precisely calibrated with us in mind?

And the point isn't to compare winning the lottery vs the universe existing like that, the point is there shouldn't be any low probability in an universe where a god has always been in charge. Or are you suggesting that God suddenly popped into existing to be the hero and make our existence possible? If so I can do the same with the universe itself and say it just exists by necessity and could never be any other way, it exists because it just IS and I don't need to add complicated entities that would need an explanation themselves.

Im in agreement with your viewpoint but you arent making much of an argument other than

God isnt real because hes improbable.

In order to have a high Iq conversation you need to be able to give reasons why something cant be true, or is unlikely to be true

 

[IBlamePhaggots]

Okay, let’s say that you’ll play a game and that there is a 1/10,000 chance of winning some money. You and any healthy person would be thinking it’s so unlikely I’d win, I shouldn’t even bother ect. But when the probability of life occurring is so much smaller, “you’re not impressed”? God did not intervene in anything, the theory is that he created life, he created the universe and Big Bang under his instructions. As he’s omnipotent, the probability should be 1!!

How can you be so confident that all this took an incomprehensibly long period of time when this could still be the beginning stages of our universe. It could exist for trillions and trillions more years, so perhaps in the grand scheme of things, life starting on earth didn’t take too long. And if God fundamentally set out the instructions for life and the universe, who am I to argue why it took so long, or why our galaxy ect?

God didn’t just pop up at any random time. God started that Big bang and laid out the foundations for life to occur! That’s the belief at least.

Maybe god is the name we give to the coincidence of life,

How everything came together perfectly to create life, that is God

Not the ACTIONS of god

That IS God, if we take god as an energy we can take god as the Coincidental electric shocks which created life

Ill accept that as a god

 

[Deleted member 21262]

Maybe god is the name we give to the coincidence of life,

How everything came together perfectly to create life, that is God

Not the ACTIONS of god

That IS God, if we take god as an energy we can take god as the Coincidental electric shocks which created life

Ill accept that as a god

No one cares what you accept ganesh, keep bobbling your little head and stfu

 

[standardcel]

15y old kidcel trying to explain why he was born and everything exists

 

[vanillaicecream]

Im in agreement with your viewpoint but you arent making much of an argument other than

God isnt real because hes improbable.

In order to have a high Iq conversation you need to be able to give reasons why something cant be true, or is unlikely to be true

No buddy, that's not what I'm saying at all. Why do theists have such a hard time with reading comprehension and are always distorting everything? I'm simply pointing out the flaws and holes in the justification for a proposition that has been put forth, I'm not making any independent claims of absolute truth otherwise, I'm simply pointing out the mistakes in the epistemology of a proposition and none of that involved claiming a god is in fact not real because it's improbable.

Rejecting X isn't affirming Y, learn logic. A presented a ton of reasons as to why the argument of fine tuning or low probability of life for god is flawed, so how can you say I'm not giving any arguments or reasons? The point is to point out the epistemic flaws of a proposition, not to provide proof or reasons for a separate claim that you're strawmanning me into.

 

[ownsu]

Religioncels keep coping with your “muh im gonna go to heaven so life is worth it”

God isnt real, your whole life will be wasted as an incel, and then you will cease to exist.

ceasing to exist is best case scenario, would you rather get reincarnated as an indian?

 

[IBlamePhaggots]

No buddy, that's not what I'm saying at all. Why do theists have such a hard time with reading comprehension and are always distorting everything? I'm simply pointing out the flaws and holes in the justification for a proposition that has been put forth, I'm not making any independent claims of absolute truth otherwise, I'm simply pointing out the mistakes in the epistemology of a proposition and none of that involved claiming a god is in fact not real because it's improbable.

Rejecting X isn't affirming Y, learn logic. A presented a ton of reasons as to why the argument of fine tuning or low probability of life for god is flawed, so how can you say I'm not giving any arguments or reasons? The point is to point out the epistemic flaws of a proposition, not to provide proof or reasons for a separate claim that you're strawmanning me into.

I suppose, but the argument you made only challenged the fundamentalist view of god (ie everything in the bible should be taken as fact and not metaphor)

It becomes a much more nuanced conversation when you dont take god from a fundamentalist viewpoint.

Either way i think heaven and hell as we think of them are dependent on a God existing eho created them

When we think of heaven and hell in a spiritual sense it becomes harder to answer

And when we frame god as a thing which isnt personal, no a being, it becomes even more complicated

 

[vanillaicecream]

JFL all your arguments are just saying that I can’t keep an open mind to many unanswered questions. I should just fully follow the scenario of naturalism when referring to science and probabilistic theories of life? All this is very multifaceted and there’s no reason why you can’t combine naturalism and God in theory! This is what Francis Collins of the Human Genome project beloved.

Anyways, I’d argue against what you said a bit later.

What? How is that what you took from what I said? "You can't keep an open mind to answered questions"? It's funny because if anything I'm the one doing that and not making any claims until there's sufficient evidence to conclude anything while you're the one with the presumptuous position that holds it couldn't possibly be other way and it was all created with us in mind.

Why do you have a problem with naturalism being able to answer everything? There's no example or demonstration of anything outside the bounds of naturalism and it all seems to follow a chain of naturalistic processes that give rise to emergent properties, so why add something invisible, intangible and undetectable to the equation?

 

[vanillaicecream]

I suppose, but the argument you made only challenged the fundamentalist view of god (ie everything in the bible should be taken as fact and not metaphor)

It becomes a much more nuanced conversation when you dont take god from a fundamentalist viewpoint.

Either way i think heaven and hell as we think of them are dependent on a God existing eho created them

When we think of heaven and hell in a spiritual sense it becomes harder to answer

And when we frame god as a thing which isnt personal, no a being, it becomes even more complicated

What? The argument I made is about the God of the bible?? When did I ever say anything about any religious notion of a god?? You can't possibly be seeing that in anything I've said so far.

 

[IBlamePhaggots]

What? The argument I made is about the God of the bible?? When did I ever say anything about any religious notion of a god?? You can't possibly be seeing that in anything I've said so far.

God in the bible is the Christian religious notion of god?

 

[Enfant terrible]

The Theory of abiogenesis suggests that somehow due to the harsh nature of the planet back then, multiple reactions lead to simple organic matter forming into RNA which eventually lead to DNA formation and the first cell. But once again, my point is that the likelihood for all those reactions to occur perfectly which would lead to life is so rare. It took us well into the 1900s to do the same in a lab. If we’re going by science, I think the first life forms/bacteria came from an asteroid.

Incidentally, the pioneer of the Genome project believed in Christianity. He stated my point that the intricacies of the natural world can only suggest a higher power responsible. One such intricacy is our DNA.

I mean around the Big Bang and before then, our understanding of physics sort of breaks down. So the laws of nature may not be absolute. Perhaps deep in the universe, this is also the case. We just haven’t found out yet. Likewise, with other universities/dimensions, the laws of physics may very well be different to ours. There’s a theory that collisions between two or more higher dimensional objects lead to the Big Bang which is very interesting.

Technically our laws of nature started with the Big Bang. Before that we can never understand about mass, energy ect as we don’t know. My personal belief is that a higher being caused the Big Bang to occur; thus resulting in our laws of nature and explaining how, against all odds, life started on a planet perfect for us.

always the same take
your religion cant be proved just accept that

 

[Enfant terrible]

He doesn't need to prove anything, you are the one with an absurd proposition of something that defies reality as we know it so you need something positively indicative of it instead of hoping it will be proven false. The fact that it is real shouldn't be the default assumption unless you have a good reason to think so. What is that reason?

wishful thinking
they want it to be true so its true
thats all

 

[vanillaicecream]

God in the bible is the Christian religious notion of god?

What??

 

[vanillaicecream]

wishful thinking
they want it to be true so its true
thats all

The funniest thing is that he says "when someone asks me why there is no heaven I'll say because an incel on a forum told me so" as if that's just his word on it and not indications of reality lol. Religious people are a joke.

 

[mogstars]

God loves me bro, that's why he made me an autistic 5'2 currycel with klinefelters
God has a plan for me, he's just testing me bro!

Whoever believes this clearly has never read the bible and is just coping

We live in a fallen world

 

[mogstars]

-the biggest thing for me is that there are theories with logical basis that could explain abiogenesis (the sporadic creation of life)

Abiogenesis - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

If a naturally scientific theory has a plausible and logical explanation for how life couldve arisen, i will believe that over god who is founded on essentially nothing other than the LACK of a good explanation (keep in mind god was first written about thousands of years ago before the sciences had developed)

-god being a leading argument doesnt mean that it has credibility, and most people that believe in a specific religion are either indoctrinated from a young age or too stupid to question it

-heaven and hell can be real,
If god exists, but ONLY if god exists. Its much more plausible that heaven and hell were a concept created by humans to give life meaning and create order, than heaven and hell actually existing as places above the laws of nature.

as i said before heaven and hell have no reason to exist

Whilst the idea of a god exists because there needed to be some form of explanation as to how life arose.


- Id say god is a logical fallacy because he goes against all natural sciences/laws of nature. For example creation out of nothing is illogical because conservation of mass and energy (which are fundamentally the same thing mur mur mut whatever)

A being existing with the ability to make things happen is illogical because making something happen requires energy (or mass which can be converted to energy through nuclear explosions)

So god must have had mass, or energy, both of which are illogical because God existed before the universe.

- the alternate dimensions/multiverse is really just a theory, that some scientist like brian cox think may be theoretically possible but it really isnt founded on any fact, and once again its a logical fallacy because how would we get to these alternate dimensions (do we have mass? energy? If we are not physical then how are we being? yada yada yada)

-I really cant explain the last part although its always been something i found fascinating

- some studies have found, that in preparation for death the body releases a whole load of chemicals, which may explain the “light at the end of the tunnel” stuff, and also the feeling of euphoria

This study found there is a surge in gamma waves released by the brain in the moments before death

Human brains show larger-than-life activity at moment of death

The brains of dying people may spark to sudden life in their final moments. Two apparently brain-dead people taken off of life-support showed sudden spikes in neural activity, according to a study …

thehill.com

Gamma waves indicate conscious thought, i dont really know what the above study indicates past that but i just thought it was interesting to demonstrate that there is definitely physical, internal changes just prior to death that could explain the phenomena you mentioned

If a person believe that death is a “bright light at the end of the tunnel” that may be theyre body makes them see, or it may be what they think about just prior to death whilst all these chemicals and gamma waves are being released and what not, giving rise to that vision. Although other scientist have argued that its a non detectable experience

Tbh Im not sure on that last one

if u believe that u must believe trans people are women

 

[mogstars]

Keep hoping boyo

God said that man should reproduce and have children yet youre KHV? Surely thats a sin

You are so retarded

I'll be impressed if you're older than 14

Matthew 19:12 (NIV):"For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

 

[mogstars]

i think it is coincidence but im not massively ante of the idea that A god exists

But the notion of a god being the Christian or Islamic god is straight bullshit imo, and then by extension theres no heaven, hell, or jannah

If I was to believe in god

It would be more like god IS the description of the force which gives us life, rather than being personal, or a being that created the world and life etc

Nigga you are saying exactly what foids say

My girl and my mom both say the same exact thing word by word

 

[mogstars]

Can't wait to turn "into dust"

This nigga only debates street normies who dont know shit while he got raped by that blonde christian apologist forgot his name

 

[Fiqh]

This nigga only debates street normies who dont know shit while he got raped by that blonde christian apologist forgot his name

Who is the blond

 

[Jamaldickjavontus]

lets put and end to this thread god this god that we will all find an answer when the inevitable day comes to take us away

 

[IBlamePhaggots]

This nigga only debates street normies who dont know shit while he got raped by that blonde christian apologist forgot his name

What are you talking about

 

[IBlamePhaggots]

Who is the blond

Never happened

 

[IBlamePhaggots]

You are so retarded

I'll be impressed if you're older than 14

Matthew 19:12 (NIV):"For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

That wqs obviously a rage bait comment

However all the other paragraphs im assuming are things which you have no knowledge on and are unable to comprehend

 

[Fiqh]

What are you talking about

He was talking about the person in my old signature

 

[IBlamePhaggots]

He was talking about the person in my old signature

Idk what your old signature looks like

 

[Tito604]

Im orthodox and man just cause you sin doesn't mean you can't go to church or pray. We all sin everyday. Swearing is a sin too, for example. I bet you did it at least 30 times today. Living a life without sin is impossible for us, we aren't Jesus Christ. It's important to repent and pray for forgiveness after sinning.

If this isnt real https://www.cog-pkg.org/ then god doesent exist because it makes sense unlike all the other religions

 

[Tito604]

It’s because they understand that to have everything so precise, have the correct constants of matter to the highest sf ect requires a higher power.

again with the fine tuning cope bruh

 

[Tito604]

Must be a hell of a coincidence to have probabilities that stoop so so close to zero?

We ultimately can’t speculate what god is. It well might not be that traditional father looking figure with a beard jfl. It may be something we cannot comprehend. An energy perhaps ? A reason why Muslims aren’t allowed pictures of Allah is because it’s thought that Allah is beyond human understanding, due to its sheer transcendence.

So, what gave us life then ?

bro asking us like we know who gave us life just because we dont know doesent mean it has to be god just like people thought epeleptic seizure where possesions by demons in the pre scientific era they didnt know what epelepsy was back then bruh

 

[oldcel2002]

if god was real, he wouldnt create incels

idiot, it’s not his fault that the past generations of incels made shitty decisions regarding epigenetics? Maybe reprodicing with the wrong partner, invest, etc

He gives us freedom and liberty