To all atheist/agnostics : What makes an action good or evil ?

[Deleted member 16384]

Not a bait, I was just wondering.

Inb4 , you can be a good person without theism/religion. That's not the point of the question.

On what ground can you denounce an evil action ? You should have a philosophical justification behind it. Otherwise, you can be a good person but you cannot blame anyone else for being evil.

Also inb4 , there is no good and evil. This is an incredibly stupid statement and useless in every way possible. The practice of society and the existence of a judicial system clearly points to the opposite.

 

[Deleted member 4106]

Two things
The morals of that society. For example, today rape is wrong, but in the past when an army won wars they would rape the women of the defeated army. Or basically any cultural difference, like not eating a certain animal, that society's religion.

The jusnaturalist ethic. In short, there are natural rights inherent to all individuals, such as freedom and the right to property. Anyone who violates these rights is considered "bad".

 

[Baldingman1998]

This is the dumbest argument. So before religion was invented all humans used to kill each other? Psychopaths exist with or without religion. Humans have evolved to be somewhat altruistic and empathic. We still have these traits and we are social animals. If I don't want to be killed I don't kill. Etc. Even with rules and shit crime still happens. In the past it was a the fear of death and maybe torture (society as a mob would do that). Now it's fear of hell and eternal torment. Nothing really changed. The less evolved humans need fear (otherwise they would do whatever they want). While the more evolved humans try and find compromise whenever possible. (If possible)

 

[Baldingman1998]

Not a bait, I was just wondering.

Inb4 , you can be a good person without theism/religion. That's not the point of the question.

On what ground can you denounce an evil action ? You should have a philosophical justification behind it. Otherwise, you can be a good person but you cannot blame anyone else for being evil.

Also inb4 , there is no good and evil. This is an incredibly stupid statement and useless in every way possible. The practice of society and the existence of a judicial system clearly points to the opposite.

There is no good or evil. But usually the greater good = good.

If one person has to steal or starve to death. He technically is being immoral for stealing but it's not evil for him. In his point of view he is doing what is good inorder to survive. While others will see him as evil for stealing. That's why regardless of other people you should always think of what is good for me and my family (primary objective). And help seciety as a secondary objective.

You can't blame people for doing what they have to do to survive but that doesn't mean you should accept it. In other words you should protect your property, eye for an eye, and don't trust randoms.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

Not a bait, I was just wondering.

Inb4 , you can be a good person without theism/religion. That's not the point of the question.

On what ground can you denounce an evil action ? You should have a philosophical justification behind it. Otherwise, you can be a good person but you cannot blame anyone else for being evil.

Also inb4 , there is no good and evil. This is an incredibly stupid statement and useless in every way possible. The practice of society and the existence of a judicial system clearly points to the opposite.

This.

If there is no god then there is no morality therefore I can kill 1k people and that’s fine as there’s no god I am morally just as I deemed it necessary to kill for the sake of it. This means I don’t have to be kind either as being kind is also a man made concept

basically atheists are retarded if they try to push morality on people

 

[Harold O'brien]

My intuition

 

[Deleted member 4106]

My intuition

Cute avi

 

[Deleted member 16384]

My intuition

Muh intuition tells me I should bash your skull with a hammer

You see the problem here youngling ?

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

This is the dumbest argument. So before religion was invented all humans used to kill each other? Psychopaths exist with or without religion. Humans have evolved to be somewhat altruistic and empathic. We still have these traits and we are social animals. If I don't want to be killed I don't kill. Etc. Even with rules and shit crime still happens. In the past it was a the fear of death and maybe torture (society as a mob would do that). Now it's fear of hell and eternal torment. Nothing really changed. The less evolved humans need fear (otherwise they would do whatever they want). While the more evolved humans try and find compromise whenever possible. (If possible)

Man made concept if there i no god I shouldn’t feel guilty killing or torturing people not saying I’d do this or this is just but if there is no god I am within reason in a way allowed to act as I do please I can enslave entire races and not have a single regret knowing I can do what i want as nothing is truly evil or good but shades of grey if no god exists. Some humans are empathetic genetically but psychopaths are not and they are just as natrual so they can kill like Richard Ramirez and are justified because there is no god

You atheists create shit like retards

 

[Harold O'brien]

Muh intuition tells me I should bash your skull with a hammer

You see the problem here youngling ?

No, I mean Harolds intuition, not yours

 

[Deleted member 16384]

There is no good or evil. But usually the greater good = good.

If one person has to steal or starve to death. He technically is being immoral for stealing but it's not evil for him. In his point of view he is doing what is good inorder to survive. While others will see him as evil for stealing. That's why regardless of other people you should always think of what is good for me and my family (primary objective). And help seciety as a secondary objective.

You can't blame people for doing what they have to do to survive but that doesn't mean you should accept it. In other words you should protect your property, eye for an eye, and don't trust randoms.

Greater good doesn't make sense when you haven't even defined good. Define good, what makes an action good. What's the scale, do you have any rule or principle ?

That's like saying a>b without defining "a" and "b". It's a nonsensical statement at best.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

Muh intuition tells me I should bash your skull with a hammer

You see the problem here youngling ?

Tell these retards what’s up bro.
BU BU BUH MUH EVOLVED EMPATHY

yeah so that’s why so many people are schitzos and psychos both of which are also natrual occurance therefor going full Ghengis Khan mode or timur mode burning down cities and piling walls of skulls is as morally just as feeding starving Africans if there is no god both of these people are equal in morality as morality doesn’t exist

this is the conundrum atheists find themsleves in regarding the topic of morality, their argument is “I’m not a mad man and that’s a bad thing to do” but IS IT REALLY BAD TO KILL AND RAPE IF THERE IS NO GOD? THEREFORE ITS A FREE FOR ALL LIKE THE HUNGER GAMES I CAN DO AS I PLEASE if nature gave me the brain wiring to be a mad man rapist pedo murderer and there is no god then I’m just as normal as a kind introverted white liberal girl

 

[Deleted member 16384]

No, I mean Harolds intuition, not yours

A philosophical justification should be general. Why is your intuition correct ? Can you force your personal intuition on others. What if there is a conflict. You need to think deeply.

 

[Harold O'brien]

A philosophical justification should be general. Why is your intuition correct ? Can you force your personal intuition on others. What if there is a conflict. You need to think deeply.

A consistent axiomatic moral system is impossible due to moral intuitions being the product of natural selection, which is more concerned with survival than ruling out contradictions

 

[Deleted member 16384]

A consistent axiomatic moral system is impossible due to moral intuitions being the product of natural selection, which is more concerned with survival than ruling out contradictions

Do you seriously think we obtained morality from evolution. Evolution is literally based on the survival of the fittest. Empathy for the weak doesn't have any sense in evolution. If morality was an outcome of evolution, we would justify killing, robbing, oppressing weak people.

Another point to consider ; Why is there disagreement in ethics if the source of ethics is the same, ie evolution. ???

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

A consistent axiomatic moral system is impossible due to moral intuitions being the product of natural selection, which is more concerned with survival than ruling out contradictions

Institutions that vary between cultures and societies though… proving atheists are retards if they belive morality exists.

vikings believed killing people in the blood eagle and sacrificing people was justified and good and that raiding defenceless villagers was ok and coolio. The Romans and Greeks belived slavery was a human right whilst ironically espousing the virtues of Democracy. The Aztecs believed it was morally just to sacrifice people to keep the world working but to the Spaniards this was considered barbaric and evil the SAME SPANIARDS that enslaved natives raped them so brutally they had to import African slaves to rape and enslave in the same breath but that was “JUSTIFIED” morally to them

your morality without a higher power (god) is naught but a fiction a concept made by man that cannot be truly quantified due to it being the constant subject of change. A pedo rapist murderer is as equal to a care home worker by this simple rule as there is no guiding universal principle of what is good and bad

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

Do you seriously think we obtained morality from evolution. Evolution is literally based on the survival of the fittest. Empathy for the weak doesn't have any sense in evolution. If morality was an outcome of evolution, we would justify killing, robbing, oppressing weak people.

Another point to consider ; Why is there disagreement in ethics if the source of ethics is the same, ie evolution. ???

I have demolished his argument above

 

[Harold O'brien]

Do you seriously think we obtained morality from evolution. Evolution is literally based on the survival of the fittest. Empathy for the weak doesn't have any sense in evolution. If morality was an outcome of evolution, we would justify killing, robbing, oppressing weak people.

Another point to consider ; Why is there disagreement in ethics if the source of ethics is the same, ie evolution. ???

Yes, we obtained everything from evolution

Look into altruism and other regarding preferences, there are many theories on why theses evolved

This is like asking why people are different heights or have different personalities.

 

[Deleted member 16384]

Institutions that vary between cultures and societies though… proving atheists are retards if they belive morality exists.

vikings believed killing people in the blood eagle and sacrificing people was justified and good and that raiding defenceless villagers was ok and coolio. The Romans and Greeks belived slavery was a human right whilst ironically espousing the virtues of Democracy. The Aztecs believed it was morally just to sacrifice people to keep the world working but to the Spaniards this was considered barbaric and evil the SAME SPANIARDS that enslaved natives raped them so brutally they had to import African slaves to rape and enslave in the same breath but that was “JUSTIFIED” morally to them

your morality without a higher power (god) is naught but a fiction a concept made by man that cannot be truly quantified due to it being the constant subject of change. A pedo rapist murderer is as equal to a care home worker by this simple rule as there is no guiding universal principle of what is good and bad

Brutal , every atheist should . No recovery from this point onwards.

 

[Harold O'brien]

Institutions that vary between cultures and societies though… proving atheists are retards if they belive morality exists.

vikings believed killing people in the blood eagle and sacrificing people was justified and good and that raiding defenceless villagers was ok and coolio. The Romans and Greeks belived slavery was a human right whilst ironically espousing the virtues of Democracy. The Aztecs believed it was morally just to sacrifice people to keep the world working but to the Spaniards this was considered barbaric and evil the SAME SPANIARDS that enslaved natives raped them so brutally they had to import African slaves to rape and enslave in the same breath but that was “JUSTIFIED” morally to them

your morality without a higher power (god) is naught but a fiction a concept made by man that cannot be truly quantified due to it being the constant subject of change. A pedo rapist murderer is as equal to a care home worker by this simple rule as there is no guiding universal principle of what is good and bad

I agree with you I'm nihilist

 

[Deleted member 16384]

Yes, we obtained everything from evolution

Look into altruism and other regarding preferences, there are many theories on why theses evolved

This is like asking why people are different heights or have different personalities.

Morality isn't a preference. So according to you, Liking chocolate over vanilla is on the same level as killing innocent babies vs saving lives.

Do you seriously think this is a good justification. No. It sounds ridiculous.

 

[Ryan]

I agree with you I'm nihilist

kill urself low iq atheist tbh..can u imagine how beautiful world would be if ur father had used a condom that day

 

[Harold O'brien]

Morality isn't a preference. So according to you, Liking chocolate over vanilla is on the same level as killing innocent babies vs saving lives.

Do you seriously think this is a good justification. No. It sounds ridiculous.

You clearly don't know what you are talking about if you cannot see that other regarding preferences are the basis of all morality

 

[Deleted member 16384]

I agree with you I'm nihilist

You mean moral relativist, one of the dumbest philosophies out there. No offense

A moral relativist cannot refute me if l say " killing innocent babies is good "

That's how good your moral justification/understanding is. Imagine actually being a moral relativist.

 

[Harold O'brien]

You mean moral relativist, one of the dumbest philosophies out there. No offense

A moral relativist cannot refute me if l say " killing innocent babies is good "

That's how good your moral justification/understanding is. Imagine actually being a moral relativist.

No I mean nihilist

Moral truths aren't real so I couldn't refute that. But I could disagree with you which I would

 

[Deleted member 16384]

No I mean nihilist

Moral truths aren't real so I couldn't refute that. But I could disagree with you which I would

If l kill an innocent child, it is not an evil deed ultimately. Is this correct in your understanding ?

 

[Harold O'brien]

If l kill an innocent child, it is not an evil deed ultimately. Is this correct in your understanding ?

I think it is an evil deed, the majority of society thinks it is an evil deed and you will be subjected to the judicial system. but since there are no universal moral truths nothing more can be said

 

[FailedNormieManlet]

I think it is an evil deed, the majority of society thinks it is an evil deed and you will be subjected to the judicial system. but since there are no universal moral truths nothing more can be said

explaining philosophy to religious nuts is mind numbing. I am an existentialist, nihilism only gives problems and no solutions

 

[Harold O'brien]

explaining philosophy to religious nuts is mind numbing. I am an existentialist, nihilism only gives problems and no solutions

Nihilism is accepting that problems and solutions are meaningless

 

[FailedNormieManlet]

Nihilism is accepting that problems and solutions are meaningless

Existentialism is the same, we don't disagree on the meaninglessness of life. However it will lead you to being depressed, that's why people such as nietzsche suggested shit like being the ubermensch/self improvement

 

[Harold O'brien]

Existentialism is the same, we don't disagree on the meaninglessness of life. However it will lead you to being depressed, that's why people such as nietzsche suggested shit like being the ubermensch/self improvement

Nah, I love life

 

[Deleted member 15338]

This is the dumbest argument. So before religion was invented all humans used to kill each other? Psychopaths exist with or without religion. Humans have evolved to be somewhat altruistic and empathic. We still have these traits and we are social animals. If I don't want to be killed I don't kill. Etc. Even with rules and shit crime still happens. In the past it was a the fear of death and maybe torture (society as a mob would do that). Now it's fear of hell and eternal torment. Nothing really changed. The less evolved humans need fear (otherwise they would do whatever they want). While the more evolved humans try and find compromise whenever possible. (If possible)

Extremly dumb take. Modern sense of good and evil is an abrahamic concept(even if you are an atheist), aka opium of the masses, old polytheistic religions saw cruelity/wrath/revenge as a virtue (rightfully so)

 

[FailedNormieManlet]

Extremly dumb take. Modern sense of good and evil is an abrahamic concept(even if you are an atheist), aka opium of the masses, old polytheistic religions saw cruelity/wrath/revenge as a virtue (rightfully so)

master v slave morality

 

[Deleted member 15338]

master v slave morality

Enlightenment ( ) age philosphy is so retarded lmao i wonder how those low T old men couldnt see through this shit

 

[FailedNormieManlet]

Enlightenment ( ) age philosphy is so retarded lmao i wonder how those low T old men couldnt see through this shit

I agree tbh, maybe peer pressure? The things they were arguing about were within the box of god being real. Like athiesm wasn't even in their discourse because it was so far out of the overton window

 

[Deleted member 15338]

I agree tbh, maybe peer pressure? The things they were arguing about were within the box of god being real. Like athiesm wasn't even in their discourse because it was so far out of the overton window

Maybe, if i lived in that period or 50 years ago i would support feminism etc. too probably.

 

[Deleted member 4106]

Two things
The morals of that society. For example, today rape is wrong, but in the past when an army won wars they would rape the women of the defeated army. Or basically any cultural difference, like not eating a certain animal, that society's religion.

The jusnaturalist ethic. In short, there are natural rights inherent to all individuals, such as freedom and the right to property. Anyone who violates these rights is considered "bad".

Why doesn't my comment have likes? I was the only one who refuted the op

 

[FailedNormieManlet]

Maybe, if i lived in that period or 50 years ago i would support feminism etc. too probably.

I mean look at our current political discourse, compared to the discourse 300 years ago. Things such as advocating slavery are too far out of our overton window, so we won't be discussing it as our society has already come to the conclusion slavery is bad. Therefore it would be pointless in discussing the morality of slavery. Same thing in their time I guess, no point in discussing the existence of god, society has already deemed him to be real

 

[Deleted member 16384]

Extremly dumb take. Modern sense of good and evil is an abrahamic concept(even if you are an atheist), aka opium of the masses, old polytheistic religions saw cruelity/wrath/revenge as a virtue (rightfully so)

I think you can replace anything with opium of the masses. A leader can use religion to conquer the world. Religion is not an opium. The problem is with the people. People tend to use religion as a cope instead of a worldview to change the world. Ultimately, nihilism is also a cope/opium if you use it to rot on a forum.

Eg, Taliban fighters are not on opium If anything, they have a great will to power in the Nietzschean sense than most of u basement nihilists

Pagan religion can also be seen as opium. Anything can be made into opium.

 

[Deleted member 16384]

master v slave morality

This only applies to western civilization ( Christianity told everyone to turn the other cheek )

This isn't true for other cultures. In particular, Islam. Nietzsche praised Islam for having a more active , vigorous approach to life.

 

[FailedNormieManlet]

This only applies to western civilization ( Christianity told everyone to turn the other cheek )

This isn't true for other cultures. In particular, Islam

no false.

 

[Deleted member 15338]

I think you can replace anything with opium of the masses. A leader can use religion to conquer the world. Religion is not an opium. The problem is with the people. People tend to use religion as a cope instead of a worldview to change the world. Ultimately, nihilism is also a cope/opium if you use it to rot on a forum.

Pagan religion can also be seen as opium. Anything can be made into opium.

Nihilism is just modern form of abrahamism again
"Life has no meaning, doesnt matter if you are not a Chad or if you are not rich. They will die anyway too."
"Doesnt matter if i am not high status or rich, i will go to heaven and they will go to hell"
Nihilism is a pure emotional concept, it has zero rational backing.

 

[Deleted member 16384]

no false.

View attachment 1454816

Islam clearly shares an appropriate mixture of both. The division imo is really retarted. Islam for instance doesn't allow you to harm innocent people but at the same time, it encourages the Ummah to go to an actual war to save oppressed people. I don't see how this is a slave morality. To be a true Muslim, you are a slave to God only and everyone else is not worthy of being a master over you. You never obey a creation if there is disobedience of God.

I can't think of a more heroic religion

 

[FailedNormieManlet]

Islam clearly shares an appropriate mixture of both. The division imo is really retarted. Islam for instance doesn't allow you to harm innocent people but at the same time, it encourages the Ummah to go to an actual war to save oppressed people. I don't see how this is a slave morality. To be a true Muslim, you are only a slave to God and everyone else is not worthy of being a master over you. You never obey a creation if there is disobedience of God.

I can't think of a more heroic religion

cuckold. Islam isn't real, you're a slave to mohammed

 

[Deleted member 15338]

Islam clearly shares an appropriate mixture of both. The division imo is really retarted. Islam for instance doesn't allow you to harm innocent people but at the same time, it encourages the Ummah to go to an actual war to save oppressed people. I don't see how this is a slave morality. To be a true Muslim, you are a slave to God only and everyone else is not worthy of being a master over you. You never obey a creation if there is disobedience of God.

I can't think of a more heroic religion

True tbh. But still it is very dogmatic and a little ugly you know

 

[Baldingman1998]

Man made concept if there i no god I shouldn’t feel guilty killing or torturing people not saying I’d do this or this is just but if there is no god I am within reason in a way allowed to act as I do please I can enslave entire races and not have a single regret knowing I can do what i want as nothing is truly evil or good but shades of grey if no god exists. Some humans are empathetic genetically but psychopaths are not and they are just as natrual so they can kill like Richard Ramirez and are justified because there is no god

You atheists create shit like retards

That's stupid as fuck. The only reason you feel guilty is because you're scared of God??

That's called fear. Not guilt. I would feel guilty if I killed someone who begged me for mercy if he was innocent not because of God but because of empathy. Most people have that. OR the fear of being killed by his relatives/family the same way.

 

[Deleted member 16384]

cuckold. Islam isn't real, you're a slave to mohammed

No, the Prophet encouraged jihad against disbelievers. We follow the Prophet as he is showing us the pathway. We are always in a struggle as Muslims. There isn't a hint of slavery.

To give you some perspective, every Muslim in the world has an obligation to establish a world order based on Shariah to rule over people. I won't call that slave morality.

I can turn the table around and say , you are a slave to capitalism and democracy. I would rather be a slave of God and his Prophet than a group of capitalists/oligarchs

 

[Deleted member 15338]

No, the Prophet encouraged jihad against disbelievers. We follow the Prophet as he is showing us the pathway. We are always in a struggle as Muslims. There isn't a hint of slavery.

To give you some perspective, every Muslim in the world has an obligation to establish a world order based on Shariah to rule over people. I won't call that slave morality.

I can turn the table around and say , you are a slave to capitalism and democracy. I would rather be a slave of God and his Prophet than a group of capitalists/oligarchs

Best cope ever made ngl no wonder sandcels are so radical about islam

 

[Baldingman1998]

No, the Prophet encouraged jihad against disbelievers. We follow the Prophet as he is showing us the pathway. We are always in a struggle as Muslims. There isn't a hint of slavery.

To give you some perspective, every Muslim in the world has an obligation to establish a world order based on Shariah to rule over people. I won't call that slave morality.

I can turn the table around and say , you are a slave to capitalism and democracy. I would rather be a slave of God and his Prophet than a group of capitalists/oligarchs

This is the most low iq reply I have ever seen. Capitalism and democracy have nothing to do with islam or religion. Well from a point of view of Muslims it might. (Gods law vs man made rubbish). But in reality it's tyrrany vs freedom.

 

[Harold O'brien]

Nihilism is just modern form of abrahamism again
"Life has no meaning, doesnt matter if you are not a Chad or if you are not rich. They will die anyway too."
"Doesnt matter if i am not high status or rich, i will go to heaven and they will go to hell"
Nihilism is a pure emotional concept, it has zero rational backing.

Nihilsm doesn't claim to have a rational backing. In fact it claims that logic is meaningless, so trying to defend or refute it with logic is futile