True evil beyond religion and nature, why men like rira or the elite are actually evil

[irrumator praetor]

furthermore, he has an identity crisis afaik because hes conforming to a society, in a fake way, society which he hates the most out of all things (he literally lives in the belly of the beast NYC. You have to live there if you want to be super successful, or as successful as he is. Which is the irony - a bunch of successful people, want to be successful but in doing so, need to live in a city they most despise. Babylon). Being fake, identity crisis and conforming to a society you hate is pretty common and a lot of (socially successful) people go through the same process but to varying degrees. I went through that twice in my early and late childhood. It can only be characterized as pure hatred of everyone and everything, not being able (or struggling) to answer or define who you are. Not healthy at all though, but it passes too, as you reconcile your situation. For him though, hes a psycho, so it's permanent. A big part of that process is understanding how other people feel too (empathy). You can only hate society if you don't understand why it is not the way you ideally would want it to be. So, in a way, its kind of childish and immature (they make fun of patrick for this reason as well, he is sort of portrayed as a manchild too. Same with clavicular etc and the modern man in general). To a very small degree, I empathize with Patrick Bateman. We all do, even though hes a mockery of the modern man (us). So, hes an icon and an early looksmaxer.

Adding to what I said about the emotional state of patrick bateman being permanent: he says in the end of the film "I find no catharsis". Thats because he cannot reconcile his situation (hes psycho). So he is stuck, by his own mental disability/disorder in perpetual chaos and suffering, torture/hell, misunderstanding, hatred, disgust. I know how that felt with me, so I imagine if I was in that state 24/7 wherever I went, whomever I know/have known, I would have gone mad. So he holds up very well, imo. It truly drives you towards insanity, no joke. Hes in a perpetual cycle of being unable to reconcile his feelings towards society and the world around him. This is a keystone in growing up (although suboptimal for modern state of affairs, but nonetheless you will always experience this when growing up in any society). Thats another reason why people relate to him. Most men nowadays hate the liberalism, cuckoldry, faggotry around them. They relate to Bateman but Bateman doesn't necessarily hate the politics that much. He does hate what he would perceive as immoral or perhaps weak and under him

 

[irrumator praetor]

he can't actually improve like tyler durden said about destruction being the cause to do so
he's doing everything he can to maintain the self and his place in the world and it's breaking his already broken self

yep and the only reason he cannot undergo the fightclub process is because hes literally mentally disabled by being psychopathic
"destroying himself to find himself" (the funny fightclub self-individuation process) only works if you're not a psychopath lol
but it would presuppose you have no identity issue per se or the fundamental inability to find your own identity in the world you dislike. Bateman would probably find fightclub disgusting and subhuman as well. If he lost his position, he would probably kill himself.

Furthermore, people in fightclub are often just subjugated by "the system" while bateman is part of the class which benefits and subjugates.

He tries to "find himself" by his success, in fightclub, the subjugated class tries finding itself by going further to the extreme of poverty (monk mode). Their idea would be that, the stuff they do possess in the modern world doesn't really benefit them to the degree which they think it would. Or that if it does, then that benefit is futile, equivalent to nothing. If modern society cannot guarantee your sleep, health, fitness, mental health, stable family, healthy body. Then everything else it gives you, to replace that deficit, is futile.

Then they redefine themselves with minimalism and poverty, arguing that their relative position (with wealth, society) didn't change at all, and that they just "saw through the lies" and realized their true possessions, over the fake ones. That kind of resembles the hippies (CIA) and also monks, "monk-mode". Then, as for the question of their masculinity, they fill the rest of their day with violence, rather than drugs (hippies).

Hippies, monks, and fight club all replace modern living with communal, minimalist living (natural living, off-grid). But what they do in the meantime is where they differ: hippies take drugs and partake in spirituality and meditation, monks actually seriously partake to training, meditation and spirituality. Fight club just partakes in a hierarchy with top down orders and violence. They don't necessarily dabble into philosophy or spirituality outside of what relates to the goals of the organization.

The organization itself actually doesn't even exist to benefit the members in the short term. It seeks to benefit them long term by putting them to work. They immediately assume an organization of a secret society/paramilitary/resistance or terror cell, and they do whatever tyler durden tells them. Its very autocratic in that sense.

The main character only stops this from success by metaphorically killing himself (he survives the gunshot to the head in the film but realistically the most optimistic view of that is that he lobotomized himself he'd never survive that). In that regard, fight club would represent the process and completion of the will of all collective, subjugated men of modern society. And how it can only end if the men themselves give up, or kill themselves for whatever reason.

Their journey ends in the attempt at their victory, or the achievement of their goals. While Patricks journey never ends, he only gets torture. Ironically, he is tortured in societal heaven. In fight club, the members live their ideal lifestyle in the lower and middle class which is synonimous with hell and suffering. That isn't to say that living in the upper classes is suboptimal, or that the upper classes fail in achieving their goals. Quite the contrary to both of the films: lower classes often achieve nothing at all, while the upper classes often always achieve all their goals. The films are interesting because they give you a peek into those rare instances of struggle in both. The good in the bad (fight club) and the bad in the good (american psycho).

 

[Deleted member 296713]

bookmarked

 

[GonorrhoeaGobbler]

Adding to what I said about the emotional state of patrick bateman being permanent: he says in the end of the film "I find no catharsis". Thats because he cannot reconcile his situation (hes psycho). So he is stuck, by his own mental disability/disorder in perpetual chaos and suffering, torture/hell, misunderstanding, hatred, disgust. I know how that felt with me, so I imagine if I was in that state 24/7 wherever I went, whomever I know/have known, I would have gone mad. So he holds up very well, imo. It truly drives you towards insanity, no joke. Hes in a perpetual cycle of being unable to reconcile his feelings towards society and the world around him. This is a keystone in growing up (although suboptimal for modern state of affairs, but nonetheless you will always experience this when growing up in any society). Thats another reason why people relate to him. Most men nowadays hate the liberalism, cuckoldry, faggotry around them. They relate to Bateman but Bateman doesn't necessarily hate the politics that much. He does hate what he would perceive as immoral or perhaps weak and under him

The scariest people are those who conform for years and then finally escape.

those who as a kid hate the pressure to fit in, but cave to survive like most do. They accept the "slavery" of the social contract and play the "normal" person perfectly because they become it. But unlike those born empty, these people eventually just snap out of the act. They decide they owe the world nothing and, driven by an ego that refuses to lose, they start living entirely for themselves.

The result is a mix of violent hate for the system, total apathy for others, and pure joy because they’re finally free. They see life as a game where they are the only real player. They use Dark Triad traits to get what they want, but they’re smart—if the social cost gets too high, they just put the mask back on and act normal to keep the coast clear. Once the pressure is off, they’re back to their own world: winning, happy, and playing by their own rules.



a person like seems like the perfect monster even worse that your guy like pat. bateman or johan liebert do you agree ?

 

[GonorrhoeaGobbler]

The scariest people are those who conform for years and then finally escape.

those who as a kid hate the pressure to fit in, but cave to survive like most do. They accept the "slavery" of the social contract and play the "normal" person perfectly because they become it. But unlike those born empty, these people eventually just snap out of the act. They decide they owe the world nothing and, driven by an ego that refuses to lose, they start living entirely for themselves.

The result is a mix of violent hate for the system, total apathy for others, and pure joy because they’re finally free. They see life as a game where they are the only real player. They use Dark Triad traits to get what they want, but they’re smart—if the social cost gets too high, they just put the mask back on and act normal to keep the coast clear. Once the pressure is off, they’re back to their own world: winning, happy, and playing by their own rules.



a person like seems like the perfect monster even worse that your guy like pat. bateman or johan liebert do you agree ?

It’s the difference between a broken machine (Bateman) and a machine that has been reprogrammed to serve only itself.

 

[GonorrhoeaGobbler]

noobs : follow the rules (slaves)
pro : delete the rules and destroy everything (Bateman).
hacker : see the rules as a "sandbox" and play the game for themselves.( perfect monster I describe)

normies call pat evil, nestle calls him strong, I call him : evil and strong but broken so also weak

@Fridx

 

[Deleted member 323454]

Average Nietzsche enjoyer

 

[GonorrhoeaGobbler]

Average Nietzsche enjoyer

I know little about that fag but I think I disagree with him from the memes I've seen

 

[irrumator praetor]

The scariest people are those who conform for years and then finally escape.

those who as a kid hate the pressure to fit in, but cave to survive like most do. They accept the "slavery" of the social contract and play the "normal" person perfectly because they become it. But unlike those born empty, these people eventually just snap out of the act. They decide they owe the world nothing and, driven by an ego that refuses to lose, they start living entirely for themselves.

The result is a mix of violent hate for the system, total apathy for others, and pure joy because they’re finally free. They see life as a game where they are the only real player. They use Dark Triad traits to get what they want, but they’re smart—if the social cost gets too high, they just put the mask back on and act normal to keep the coast clear. Once the pressure is off, they’re back to their own world: winning, happy, and playing by their own rules.



a person like seems like the perfect monster even worse that your guy like pat. bateman or johan liebert do you agree ?

Now you're just describing powerful people. Nothing wrong with that behavior. Its more individualistic than collectivist, that is true (imagine agar.io or a bacteria consuming other bacteria lol). Is that evil? When I see a rich capitalist exploiting fat people (ex: McDonalds lol) I see a wolf eating a sheep. Sure, collectively thats bad, for now. In the past, the same capitalist would have exploited another country rather than his own people. But thats just the boom bust cycle. It is what it is. The same people that brought us technology and real progress are now exploiting us, or the dumbest of us. Kinda like cannibalism, or think perhaps in the perspective of eugenics, natural selection, body eating bad cells, etc. It simply is what it is. I don't judge those people. You and I would do the same

 

[irrumator praetor]

The scariest people are those who conform for years and then finally escape.

those who as a kid hate the pressure to fit in, but cave to survive like most do. They accept the "slavery" of the social contract and play the "normal" person perfectly because they become it. But unlike those born empty, these people eventually just snap out of the act. They decide they owe the world nothing and, driven by an ego that refuses to lose, they start living entirely for themselves.

The result is a mix of violent hate for the system, total apathy for others, and pure joy because they’re finally free. They see life as a game where they are the only real player. They use Dark Triad traits to get what they want, but they’re smart—if the social cost gets too high, they just put the mask back on and act normal to keep the coast clear. Once the pressure is off, they’re back to their own world: winning, happy, and playing by their own rules.



a person like seems like the perfect monster even worse that your guy like pat. bateman or johan liebert do you agree ?

I talked about such people in another thread about the american empire. Tldr: its the greedy exploiter elites behind empires, and behind human progress. They're the bad within (or driving) the good

 

[irrumator praetor]

It’s the difference between a broken machine (Bateman) and a machine that has been reprogrammed to serve only itself.

Thats just the natural state of things. You can't change nature

 

[irrumator praetor]

The scariest people are those who conform for years and then finally escape.

those who as a kid hate the pressure to fit in, but cave to survive like most do. They accept the "slavery" of the social contract and play the "normal" person perfectly because they become it. But unlike those born empty, these people eventually just snap out of the act. They decide they owe the world nothing and, driven by an ego that refuses to lose, they start living entirely for themselves.

The result is a mix of violent hate for the system, total apathy for others, and pure joy because they’re finally free. They see life as a game where they are the only real player. They use Dark Triad traits to get what they want, but they’re smart—if the social cost gets too high, they just put the mask back on and act normal to keep the coast clear. Once the pressure is off, they’re back to their own world: winning, happy, and playing by their own rules.



a person like seems like the perfect monster even worse that your guy like pat. bateman or johan liebert do you agree ?

Since social conformity will always be a must, you suppose that success itself is somehow morally bad. Thats wrong, as human history suggests

 

[shaneywaney69]

I read all, interesting thread

 

[Philalethes]

The Architecture of the Broken: A Speech on the Invention of Evil​

We often look at the world and try to categorize things as natural or unnatural, but we get stuck when we talk about violence. We see a predator and we call it cruel, but a wolf isn’t evil. It’s just hungry. It kills for a feast and it kills to survive. But how about this: what do we call the person who doesn’t kill for the feast, but instead pours salt into the water or blocks the sun?

Well, you may ask: "Is that just another form of survival?" No. That is where we find the birth of True Evil.

I’ll give you an example. When I first read about Patrick Bateman, I thought he was just a man who had gone postal. I saw him as someone trapped in the unnatural misery of a materialistic, plastic world. I saw a man trying to lash out and break his chains so he could finally re-enter nature. I thought he was doing the most natural thing a hunter could do by using violence to feel alive again.

But how about the reality? As you go deeper, you realize Bateman isn't a hunter. He is a broken sadist. A hunter kills to eat or to protect, but Bateman kills hookers just to leave their heads on a table like macabre trophies. He isn’t spreading his genes or securing territory. He is a genetic dead end. He is destroying the very eggs of the future for a thrill that yields zero biological gain.

You see, in a world with no inherent rules or mid-century morality, we assume everything is permitted. But I would argue that a person who salts the earth, who destroys for a thrill with no natural advantage, isn't a strong predator. He isn’t evil because he’s a monster. He isn’t evil, he is just broken. But here is the catch: I guess him being broken is exactly what allows for the creation of evil in a world that otherwise has no inherent morality.

Well, you may ask: "If there are no rules, why does being broken matter?"

It matters because morality is man-made. And I don’t just mean that humans sat down and invented religious beliefs to keep people in line. It goes deeper. Morality is a biological and social technology. It is a high-level achievement of the advanced mind. Only a person who is mentally advanced can become broken in a way that creates evil.

A shark cannot be evil. A virus cannot be evil. They aren't advanced enough to fail. They follow their programming perfectly. But a human? A human has a complex internal compass. And when that compass short-circuits, when the will to power becomes a will to erase, that is when evil is born. It is a sophisticated malfunction.

How about we look at the Hacker or the Vandal? They think they are being Gods because they can break the controller or salt the well. They think they’ve bypassed the rules. But they’ve actually just lost the ability to function. They’ve traded the Hunter’s Feast, the real, tangible rewards of life, for a hollow, digital spike of dopamine that leaves the world sterile.

Patrick Bateman isn't re-entering nature. He is a ghost haunted by the fact that he can't even find the door to nature anymore. He is the Shape of a dying civilization. He is an advanced machine that has broken so fundamentally that it has started to treat the void as its playground.

In the end, morality isn't just a set of "thou shalt nots." It’s the code that keeps the system running. And only a creature smart enough to understand that code is capable of being broken enough to delete it.

I'll put you with another dilemma
Like me, you probably grew up reading Charles Dickens and Mark twain's stories about poor orphans in industrial revolution who would steal to end their hunger.
Would you have sympathy for an incel who would take to fulfill his sexual needs?

 

[GonorrhoeaGobbler]

I'll put you with another dilemma
Like me, you probably grew up reading Charles Dickens and Mark twain's stories about poor orphans in industrial revolution who would steal to end their hunger.
Would you have sympathy for an incel who would take to fulfill his sexual needs?

that incel wouldn't be considered evil according to this theory

 

[Philalethes]

that incel wouldn't be considered evil according to this theory

I like it

 

[GonorrhoeaGobbler]

Now you're just describing powerful people. Nothing wrong with that behavior. Its more individualistic than collectivist, that is true (imagine agar.io or a bacteria consuming other bacteria lol). Is that evil? When I see a rich capitalist exploiting fat people (ex: McDonalds lol) I see a wolf eating a sheep. Sure, collectively thats bad, for now. In the past, the same capitalist would have exploited another country rather than his own people. But thats just the boom bust cycle. It is what it is. The same people that brought us technology and real progress are now exploiting us, or the dumbest of us. Kinda like cannibalism, or think perhaps in the perspective of eugenics, natural selection, body eating bad cells, etc. It simply is what it is. I don't judge those people. You and I would do the same

I don't judge either, this thread is just a theory and even then I don't care about forming a moral compass for myself at the end what matters is success not drawing invisible lines.

the bacteria wouldn't be evil under here
"A shark cannot be evil. A virus cannot be evil. They aren't advanced enough to fail. They follow their programming perfectly. But a human? A human has a complex internal compass. And when that compass short-circuits, when the will to power becomes a will to erase, that is when evil is born. It is a sophisticated malfunction."

According to my theory, there’s a specifc journey in how you look at this:

At first, if the elite put extra poison in the food for no reason, it’s just 'True Evil' mindless destruction. But then you notice they actually profit from making people unhealthy, so it starts to look 'Natural' again, like a predator exploiting a resource for a gain like you believe.

But there's a the twist: That isn't a real biological reward. Chasing an abstract number while trashing the actual health of the species they depend on is a short-circuit. It means their own reward system is broken, which makes them broken so they are capabe of "true evil again"

So, acording to my theory, it cycles right back to 'True Evil.' They aren't Sovereigns mastering a system; they’re just sophisticated malfunctions on a suicide mission.

at the end of the day these people have best mentality to succeed in this world, they are the winners.

 

[irrumator praetor]

I don't judge either, this thread is just a theory and even then I don't care about forming a moral compass for myself at the end what matters is success not drawing invisible lines.

the bacteria wouldn't be evil under here
"A shark cannot be evil. A virus cannot be evil. They aren't advanced enough to fail. They follow their programming perfectly. But a human? A human has a complex internal compass. And when that compass short-circuits, when the will to power becomes a will to erase, that is when evil is born. It is a sophisticated malfunction."

According to my theory, there’s a specifc journey in how you look at this:

At first, if the elite put extra poison in the food for no reason, it’s just 'True Evil' mindless destruction. But then you notice they actually profit from making people unhealthy, so it starts to look 'Natural' again, like a predator exploiting a resource for a gain like you believe.

But there's a the twist: That isn't a real biological reward. Chasing an abstract number while trashing the actual health of the species they depend on is a short-circuit. It means their own reward system is broken, which makes them broken so they are capabe of "true evil again"

So, acording to my theory, it cycles right back to 'True Evil.' They aren't Sovereigns mastering a system; they’re just sophisticated malfunctions on a suicide mission.

at the end of the day these people have best mentality to succeed in this world, they are the winners.

What you say is abstract and therefore non-existent. Is money, or capital, a note of debt of value, time or work. That directly translates into investment and development. We make money real therefore it is as real as the assets which it buys.

 

[GonorrhoeaGobbler]

What you say is abstract and therefore non-existent. Is money, or capital, a note of debt of value, time or work. That directly translates into investment and development. We make money real therefore it is as real as the assets which it buys.

According to my theory, there’s a clear path here:
The Evil Phase : If the elite poison the food for no reason, they are just 'True Evil' it's just mindless destruction.
The Natural Phase : But if you see they make money from it, it looks 'Natural' like a predator winning a game for a reward.
The Broken Phase : But here is the catch money is just a social agreement. It's an idea. The only thing that is actually real is biology and the physical world, you say that that makes it real but it isn't when you let it sit in the bank, and even when you spend it on cars and watches it might be cool at the start but it's a hollow trophy that your body doesn't truly pick up on.

If they destroy the real world (health and people) just to get more of an idea (money), they’ve short-circuited. Their brain is picking a fake reward over a real one.

That makes them Broken. It cycles back to True Evil because it's a malfunction. they are just people burning their own house bc fire looks pretty and feels warm at the start and calling it a win. It’s a suicide mission, not a master plan.
most agree that that's their plan anyway, they burrowed into the top seats, poisoned and kill the members of that kingdom and try to build their own for some reason

 

[IAMNOTANINCEL]

and our genes, they are destroying nature for no reason which is what makes them evil

nature is good

they destroy this realm for the people below them not be able to enjoy it
they dont give a fuck about how unsalvageable this one becomes because they can escape to other ones which is way better than this and they kill anyone who tries it

 

[irrumator praetor]

, you say that that makes it real but it isn't when you let it sit in the bank, and even when you spend it on cars and watches it might be cool at the start but it's a hollow trophy that your body doesn't truly pick up on.

idk thats not how rich people operate. they always spend all their money on assets and in the market.

just to get more of an idea (money),

nah cuz that changes the real world as we know that it has

 

[irrumator praetor]

they destroy this realm for the people below them not be able to enjoy it
they dont give a fuck about how unsalvageable this one becomes because they can escape to other ones which is way better than this and they kill anyone who tries it
View attachment 4866216

nigga stole my larp banner

 

[irrumator praetor]

they destroy this realm for the people below them not be able to enjoy it
they dont give a fuck about how unsalvageable this one becomes because they can escape to other ones which is way better than this and they kill anyone who tries it
View attachment 4866216

i don't believe my banner btw its just a larp jfl it also looks cool

 

[IAMNOTANINCEL]

i don't believe my banner btw its just a larp jfl it also looks cool

Tbh its kinda impossible to not believe it once you realize the elites leisure activity is destroying entire planets
There has to be another sealed place they can escape to, the earth is so pozzed and the poison circulates everywhere, you can't escape it, in the rain for example, just chilling in some island here on this same earth doesn't seem like what they would do

 

[killcry]

antisocial behavior is for the defective, you are an instrument for good