Ultimate veneers guide [High effort]

[Recopilating this info took me a month of reading papers and studies done for dentists, coupled with very thorough Instagram searches and watching seminars from top tier ceramists. There's nothing wrote in depth about veneers and the market itself is shady af, I hope this helps you to ascend].

First of all, if you have a malocclusion, a narrow smile, crowded teeth, etc, you have to fix it first, non negotiable. There are plenty of threads here that have everything you need with regards to jaw surgery, palate widening or even surgically assisted orthodontics. This guide is only useful if you already have a class 1 occlusion, non recessed jaw and adequate palate width, but not good tooth enamel and as such need veneers or crowns (or you only need braces to straighten your teeth and widen your dental arch a little bit, and also contemplate veneers to improve your teeth's appeareance, but you don't have jaw recession or a narrow palate as mentioned before).

IMPORTANT: veneers are made by ceramists, not dentists, and the ceramist skills trumps the material used. A top tier ceramist can make EMAX or even indirect composite veneers look much better than porcelain made by a mediocre ceramist.

What type of veneer/crown materials exist?

- Metal made crowns: this look like shit and are obsolete, avoid at all costs.

- Zirconia made crowns and veeners: this are the highest strenght available and replaced metal made crowns. They are more suitable for molars, their strenght is twice as much as the natural tooth enamel. So, why not do a full mouth restoration out of zirconia? Because it has the lowest translucency and looks very artificial, so it is the worst looking material possible. The typical Hollywood/Instagram artificial smile is made with zirconia most of the time:

- Lithium disilicate veneers and crowns (EMAX): this is very popular and has the same strenght as tooth enamel in monolithic form. It looks better than zirconia but not as good as natural teeth. It is the best material for molars, because it is more aesthetic than zirconia and matches the natural enamel strenght. It can be stratified with porcelain on top to look better and resemble natural teeth a lot more. The downside is that it looses strenght and is not suitable for back molars like before. The higher the translucency and aesthetics, the lower the strenght, this is a consistent tradeoff. The norm with EMAX restorations usually is to have monolithic, non stratified crowns on molars, and stratified, higher aesthetics but lower strenght veneers/crowns in the front.
EMAX veneers stratified with porcelain on top:

- Composite veneers (direct and indirect): this are the cheapest possible veneer, and can be done direct (the dentist does it in the same visit) or indirect (a mold of your teeth is send to a lab where they make the veneers). The very best option, of course, is to have a top tier ceramist make you indirect composite veneers. Don't be fooled by their price, for the right patient, they mog EMAX. Downside is that they last half as much as EMAX or Porcelain, and stain with tobacco or tea (not that you should be smoking but is good to know) and have a very low strenght. This is an example of indirect composite veneers done by a great ceramist:

As you can see, he already have very good tooth enamel and color, but weird central incisors. Indirect composite can give high translucency and mimic natural enamel to a large degree, and because he already had a great starting point, he saved lots of money and got a mogger result.

- Off the shelf porcelain veneers (Lumineers, Empress): Don't get me wrong, this are still custom made to fit your teeth, but not as much as other alternatives that I'll mention. This type of porcelain veneer has higher translucency and aesthetics than EMAX (monolithic or stratified), but is not as strong, so they can't be used for molars. They are sold as no prep veneers, but you have to be careful with this, because most veneers normally need some take some teeth away to look natural and avoid a bulky look. While we should strive to preserve as much teeth as possible, we shouldn't fall for the always minimally invasive meme and get a subpar result too. This is one example I found, as you can see, it looks good but not much better than EMAX. IMO well done composite mogs this, and if you have cash, you should avoid it and skip to the next two alternatives I'm going to talk about.

- Fully custom feldspathic porcelain veneers (CAD/CAM made): OK, as the name implies, this are fully custom made for you. Feldspathic porcelain is the material most similar to teeth enamel and the one with the highest aesthetics, period. CAD/CAM veneers and crowns designed with software using a microcamera to take thousands of pictures of your mouth, print a realistic mold and send it to a lab, where a technician CNC mills a block of porcelain until it obtains the desired shape, and a ceramist hand paints it to obtain a natural result. With softwares like Smile Cloud, you can even see how the smile will look on you, both static and in motion (!). The same technique can be used for EMAX and Zirconia too, in fact, is much more common to have fully custom EMAX veneers with this method, but you can get feldspathic porcelain too.

So, this mogs brutally and that's it? Not so fast, being milled from a single block, they still lack translucency and aesthetics compared to this alternative, which mogs so hard it will shock you.

- Fully custom, hand made on platinum foil or refractory method feldspathic porcelain veneers: this methods are the old school way of doing porcelain veneers, and by far the most aesthetic if done by a good ceramist. The porcelain, in powder state, is layered by hand by the ceramist until the desired shape and color is obtained. The only con is that they are weaker than tooth enamel, so they are not good for the molars. You can still get the 10 anterior teeth and the sides of your molars veneered (if you have a true 12 tooth smile) with it.

Words don't describe how hard this mogs, so I'm going to leave you with this instead:





We haven't touched on inlays and outlays, which are like partial crowns. If your teeth is not that damaged to warrant a crown, you can (and should) have an inlay or outlay, made with EMAX if it's in the molars, or with indirect composite or hand made porcelain if you want if it is in the front teeth. These are also cheaper than veneers and crowns by around 30%.

Normally, in Spain, this would be the prices per tooth:

- Indirect composite: 200-300€
- EMAX: 500-700€ (CAD-CAM, stratified or not)
- Lumineers/Empress: 500-700€
- CAD/CAM Porcelain: 500-700€
- Hand made Porcelain: 700-1000€

Hand made porcelain by a world class ceramist can cost up to 2000-2500€ per tooth (see Dr_Averin recent IG posts ).

TL;DR: you either have this smile or nothing, no excuses other than money:

 

[Deleted member 18879]

just destroy healthy teeth theory

 

[User49]

dnrd

 

[NegativeNorwood]

just destroy healthy teeth theory

Ofc, if you have healthy teeth, just get a pro celaning and some bleaching done, it will be better than any veneer. This is for people who doesn't have healthy enamel (which can't be recovered) and as such is a good candidate for veneers.

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Spoiler: Tagging smilepilled people

@Niklaus Mikaelson @It'snotover @fruitgunpop @Giorgio

 

[MaartenVaanThomm]

Good thread OP, but when it comes to the veeners a lot of things should one consider. I would defo not recco to anyone going for the full ones - the ones that you have to destroy your natural teeth. Composite bonding is a reasonable option and I will be going for it myself.

Also, under any circumstances, you should defo not go for a super toilet-white shades. It looks super uncanny and fake. Just look at Jurgen Klopp, Liverpool coach. His smile is literally screaming: "HEY EVERYONE LOOK, I'VE DONE MY TEETH"

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Good thread OP, but when it comes to the veeners a lot of things should one consider. I would defo not recco to anyone going for the full ones - the ones that you have to destroy your natural teeth. Composite bonding is a reasonable option and I will be going for it myself.

Also, under any circumstances, you should defo not go for a super toilet-white shades. It looks super uncanny and fake. Just look at Jurgen Klopp, Liverpool coach. His smile is literally screaming: "HEY EVERYONE LOOK, I'VE DONE MY TEETH"

Thanks!

Agree 100%, indirect composite is amazing because it can fix front teeth greatly without having to destroy natural teeth if done well. OTOH, if teeth already are in bad state and money is not an issue, well done hand made porcelain mogs hard.

Klopp is the classic example of having more money than sense, that shit looks horrible. He probably got the lowest effort, shittiest made CAD-CAM Zirconia, and even paid a small fortune for it. Celebrities usually have shit jobs done smh, normal people that research a little bit and have some money usually have way better surgery outcomes.

 

[Leviathin]

My teeth always looked perfect and they’re pretty white. Is this a white people thing?

 

[NegativeNorwood]

My teeth always looked perfect and they’re pretty white. Is this a white people thing?

It's good genetics and oral hygiene. Keep them clean to preserve them

 

[FootballPlaya69]

My teeth always looked perfect and they’re pretty white. Is this a white people thing?

 

[Leviathin]

View attachment 2111709

mfw I mog my all mayoboys into oblivion

 

[RopeMaxxed]

 

[klamus]

Upvoted For high effort

 

[It'snotover]

[Recopilating this info took me a month of reading papers and studies done for dentists, coupled with very thorough Instagram searches and watching seminars from top tier ceramists. There's nothing wrote in depth about veneers and the market itself is shady af, I hope this helps you to ascend].

First of all, if you have a malocclusion, a narrow smile, crowded teeth, etc, you have to fix it first, non negotiable. There are plenty of threads here that have everything you need with regards to jaw surgery, palate widening or even surgically assisted orthodontics. This guide is only useful if you already have a class 1 occlusion, non recessed jaw and adequate palate width, but not good tooth enamel and as such need veneers or crowns (or you only need braces to straighten your teeth and widen your dental arch a little bit, and also contemplate veneers to improve your teeth's appeareance, but you don't have jaw recession or a narrow palate as mentioned before).

IMPORTANT: veneers are made by ceramists, not dentists, and the ceramist skills trumps the material used. A top tier ceramist can make EMAX or even indirect composite veneers look much better than porcelain made by a mediocre ceramist.

What type of veneer/crown materials exist?

- Metal made crowns: this look like shit and are obsolete, avoid at all costs.

- Zirconia made crowns and veeners: this are the highest strenght available and replaced metal made crowns. They are more suitable for molars, their strenght is twice as much as the natural tooth enamel. So, why not do a full mouth restoration out of zirconia? Because it has the lowest translucency and looks very artificial, so it is the worst looking material possible. The typical Hollywood/Instagram artificial smile is made with zirconia most of the time:

- Lithium disilicate veneers and crowns (EMAX): this is very popular and has the same strenght as tooth enamel in monolithic form. It looks better than zirconia but not as good as natural teeth. It is the best material for molars, because it is more aesthetic than zirconia and matches the natural enamel strenght. It can be stratified with porcelain on top to look better and resemble natural teeth a lot more. The downside is that it looses strenght and is not suitable for back molars like before. The higher the translucency and aesthetics, the lower the strenght, this is a consistent tradeoff. The norm with EMAX restorations usually is to have monolithic, non stratified crowns on molars, and stratified, higher aesthetics but lower strenght veneers/crowns in the front.
EMAX veneers stratified with porcelain on top:

- Composite veneers (direct and indirect): this are the cheapest possible veneer, and can be done direct (the dentist does it in the same visit) or indirect (a mold of your teeth is send to a lab where they make the veneers). The very best option, of course, is to have a top tier ceramist make you indirect composite veneers. Don't be fooled by their price, for the right patient, they mog EMAX. Downside is that they last half as much as EMAX or Porcelain, and stain with tobacco or tea (not that you should be smoking but is good to know) and have a very low strenght. This is an example of indirect composite veneers done by a great ceramist:

As you can see, he already have very good tooth enamel and color, but weird central incisors. Indirect composite can give high translucency and mimic natural enamel to a large degree, and because he already had a great starting point, he saved lots of money and got a mogger result.

- Off the shelf porcelain veneers (Lumineers, Empress): Don't get me wrong, this are still custom made to fit your teeth, but not as much as other alternatives that I'll mention. This type of porcelain veneer has higher translucency and aesthetics than EMAX (monolithic or stratified), but is not as strong, so they can't be used for molars. They are sold as no prep veneers, but you have to be careful with this, because most veneers normally need some take some teeth away to look natural and avoid a bulky look. While we should strive to preserve as much teeth as possible, we shouldn't fall for the always minimally invasive meme and get a subpar result too. This is one example I found, as you can see, it looks good but not much better than EMAX. IMO well done composite mogs this, and if you have cash, you should avoid it and skip to the next two alternatives I'm going to talk about.

- Fully custom feldspathic porcelain veneers (CAD/CAM made): OK, as the name implies, this are fully custom made for you. Feldspathic porcelain is the material most similar to teeth enamel and the one with the highest aesthetics, period. CAD/CAM veneers and crowns designed with software using a microcamera to take thousands of pictures of your mouth, print a realistic mold and send it to a lab, where a technician CNC mills a block of porcelain until it obtains the desired shape, and a ceramist hand paints it to obtain a natural result. With softwares like Smile Cloud, you can even see how the smile will look on you, both static and in motion (!). The same technique can be used for EMAX and Zirconia too, in fact, is much more common to have fully custom EMAX veneers with this method, but you can get feldspathic porcelain too.

So, this mogs brutally and that's it? Not so fast, being milled from a single block, they still lack translucency and aesthetics compared to this alternative, which mogs so hard it will shock you.

- Fully custom, hand made on platinum foil or refractory method feldspathic porcelain veneers: this methods are the old school way of doing porcelain veneers, and by far the most aesthetic if done by a good ceramist. The porcelain, in powder state, is layered by hand by the ceramist until the desired shape and color is obtained. The only con is that they are weaker than tooth enamel, so they are not good for the molars. You can still get the 10 anterior teeth and the sides of your molars veneered (if you have a true 12 tooth smile) with it.

Words don't describe how hard this mogs, so I'm going to leave you with this instead:





We haven't touched on inlays and outlays, which are like partial crowns. If your teeth is not that damaged to warrant a crown, you can (and should) have an inlay or outlay, made with EMAX if it's in the molars, or with indirect composite or hand made porcelain if you want if it is in the front teeth. These are also cheaper than veneers and crowns by around 30%.

Normally, in Spain, this would be the prices per tooth:

- Indirect composite: 200-300€
- EMAX: 500-700€ (CAD-CAM, stratified or not)
- Lumineers/Empress: 500-700€
- CAD/CAM Porcelain: 500-700€
- Hand made Porcelain: 700-1000€

Hand made porcelain by a world class ceramist can cost up to 2000-2500€ per tooth (see Dr_Averin IG recent IG posts ).

TL;DR: you either have this smile or nothing, no excuses other than money:

High iq and based af. Almost every Hollywood actor has veeners, remind that to rotters here brother.

 

[Eezz]

Ofc, if you have healthy teeth, just get a pro celaning and some bleaching done, it will be better than any veneer. This is for people who doesn't have healthy enamel (which can't be recovered) and as such is a good candidate for veneers.

Cant you get them on top of your teeth without shaving them ?

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Cant you get them on top of your teeth without shaving them ?

"No prep" veneers and composites yes, but they usually look bulky unless the teeth itself is already thinned due to lack of enamel. The hand made refractory porcelain veneers can be as thin as 0,3 mm and require minimal tooth preparation, but those are the most expensive ones and very few people knows how to do them.
This is one example, note how despite him saying "no damage to the teeth", the central incisors were already worn out, thus they didn't need shaving, and the other teeth had some wear too, so if they had preparation, it was minimal:

 

[NegativeNorwood]

High iq and based af. Almost every Hollywood actor has veeners, remind that to rotters here brother.

Thanks bro! And they usually wear mediocre veneers (CAD CAM Porcelain or Emax at best), haven't seen a single celebrity with a smile makeover like the refractory ones posted here (ie Dr_Averin's cases). The ones that have perfect smile had it since the beginning, like Margot Robbie (top tier jaw development and oral hygiene, since her work is based mostly on her looks).

 

[Sondern]

[Recopilating this info took me a month of reading papers and studies done for dentists, coupled with very thorough Instagram searches and watching seminars from top tier ceramists. There's nothing wrote in depth about veneers and the market itself is shady af, I hope this helps you to ascend].

First of all, if you have a malocclusion, a narrow smile, crowded teeth, etc, you have to fix it first, non negotiable. There are plenty of threads here that have everything you need with regards to jaw surgery, palate widening or even surgically assisted orthodontics. This guide is only useful if you already have a class 1 occlusion, non recessed jaw and adequate palate width, but not good tooth enamel and as such need veneers or crowns (or you only need braces to straighten your teeth and widen your dental arch a little bit, and also contemplate veneers to improve your teeth's appeareance, but you don't have jaw recession or a narrow palate as mentioned before).

IMPORTANT: veneers are made by ceramists, not dentists, and the ceramist skills trumps the material used. A top tier ceramist can make EMAX or even indirect composite veneers look much better than porcelain made by a mediocre ceramist.

What type of veneer/crown materials exist?

- Metal made crowns: this look like shit and are obsolete, avoid at all costs.

- Zirconia made crowns and veeners: this are the highest strenght available and replaced metal made crowns. They are more suitable for molars, their strenght is twice as much as the natural tooth enamel. So, why not do a full mouth restoration out of zirconia? Because it has the lowest translucency and looks very artificial, so it is the worst looking material possible. The typical Hollywood/Instagram artificial smile is made with zirconia most of the time:

- Lithium disilicate veneers and crowns (EMAX): this is very popular and has the same strenght as tooth enamel in monolithic form. It looks better than zirconia but not as good as natural teeth. It is the best material for molars, because it is more aesthetic than zirconia and matches the natural enamel strenght. It can be stratified with porcelain on top to look better and resemble natural teeth a lot more. The downside is that it looses strenght and is not suitable for back molars like before. The higher the translucency and aesthetics, the lower the strenght, this is a consistent tradeoff. The norm with EMAX restorations usually is to have monolithic, non stratified crowns on molars, and stratified, higher aesthetics but lower strenght veneers/crowns in the front.
EMAX veneers stratified with porcelain on top:

- Composite veneers (direct and indirect): this are the cheapest possible veneer, and can be done direct (the dentist does it in the same visit) or indirect (a mold of your teeth is send to a lab where they make the veneers). The very best option, of course, is to have a top tier ceramist make you indirect composite veneers. Don't be fooled by their price, for the right patient, they mog EMAX. Downside is that they last half as much as EMAX or Porcelain, and stain with tobacco or tea (not that you should be smoking but is good to know) and have a very low strenght. This is an example of indirect composite veneers done by a great ceramist:

As you can see, he already have very good tooth enamel and color, but weird central incisors. Indirect composite can give high translucency and mimic natural enamel to a large degree, and because he already had a great starting point, he saved lots of money and got a mogger result.

- Off the shelf porcelain veneers (Lumineers, Empress): Don't get me wrong, this are still custom made to fit your teeth, but not as much as other alternatives that I'll mention. This type of porcelain veneer has higher translucency and aesthetics than EMAX (monolithic or stratified), but is not as strong, so they can't be used for molars. They are sold as no prep veneers, but you have to be careful with this, because most veneers normally need some take some teeth away to look natural and avoid a bulky look. While we should strive to preserve as much teeth as possible, we shouldn't fall for the always minimally invasive meme and get a subpar result too. This is one example I found, as you can see, it looks good but not much better than EMAX. IMO well done composite mogs this, and if you have cash, you should avoid it and skip to the next two alternatives I'm going to talk about.

- Fully custom feldspathic porcelain veneers (CAD/CAM made): OK, as the name implies, this are fully custom made for you. Feldspathic porcelain is the material most similar to teeth enamel and the one with the highest aesthetics, period. CAD/CAM veneers and crowns designed with software using a microcamera to take thousands of pictures of your mouth, print a realistic mold and send it to a lab, where a technician CNC mills a block of porcelain until it obtains the desired shape, and a ceramist hand paints it to obtain a natural result. With softwares like Smile Cloud, you can even see how the smile will look on you, both static and in motion (!). The same technique can be used for EMAX and Zirconia too, in fact, is much more common to have fully custom EMAX veneers with this method, but you can get feldspathic porcelain too.

So, this mogs brutally and that's it? Not so fast, being milled from a single block, they still lack translucency and aesthetics compared to this alternative, which mogs so hard it will shock you.

- Fully custom, hand made on platinum foil or refractory method feldspathic porcelain veneers: this methods are the old school way of doing porcelain veneers, and by far the most aesthetic if done by a good ceramist. The porcelain, in powder state, is layered by hand by the ceramist until the desired shape and color is obtained. The only con is that they are weaker than tooth enamel, so they are not good for the molars. You can still get the 10 anterior teeth and the sides of your molars veneered (if you have a true 12 tooth smile) with it.

Words don't describe how hard this mogs, so I'm going to leave you with this instead:





We haven't touched on inlays and outlays, which are like partial crowns. If your teeth is not that damaged to warrant a crown, you can (and should) have an inlay or outlay, made with EMAX if it's in the molars, or with indirect composite or hand made porcelain if you want if it is in the front teeth. These are also cheaper than veneers and crowns by around 30%.

Normally, in Spain, this would be the prices per tooth:

- Indirect composite: 200-300€
- EMAX: 500-700€ (CAD-CAM, stratified or not)
- Lumineers/Empress: 500-700€
- CAD/CAM Porcelain: 500-700€
- Hand made Porcelain: 700-1000€

Hand made porcelain by a world class ceramist can cost up to 2000-2500€ per tooth (see Dr_Averin IG recent IG posts ).

TL;DR: you either have this smile or nothing, no excuses other than money:

Great guide

 

[It'snotover]

Thanks bro! And they usually wear mediocre veneers (CAD CAM Porcelain or Emax at best), haven't seen a single celebrity with a smile makeover like the refractory ones posted here (ie Dr_Averin's cases). The ones that have perfect smile had it since the beginning, like Margot Robbie (top tier jaw development and oral hygiene, since her work is based mostly on her looks).

Yeah, it's crazy how multimillionaire celebrities go cheap with something that is correlated with their looks. The only guy with good veneers is tom cruise imo, really we need to find his surgeon jfl

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Yeah, it's crazy how multimillionaire celebrities go cheap with something that is correlated with their looks. The only guy with good veeners is tom cruise imo, really we need to find his surgeon jfl

Agree, you would think they are smart but money and fame are not correlated to research or intelligence.
Tom Cruise actually had braces (the normal ones, self ligating or custom lingual braces weren't available by that time), and even then, the results are pretty mediocre:

Look at his dental arch and his deviated midline, he needed a Lefort 1 cut to correct that, but digital tech wasn't available back then and he didn't risk it, just went with conventional orthodontics instead (wise decision tbh). His teeth look stained in some pictures, so he didn't have veneers (and if he had, they were the cheap composite ones, which I highly doubt he would get).

He gets brutally smile mogged by the average person who got blackpilled modern orthodontics/surgery and custom hand made refractory veneers.
Custom hand made refractory veneers video:



Raffaini patient before and after, check the symmetry of the midline and the smile arch:

Cruise is tremendously asymmetric in comparison and has a much worse smile arch. It's normal because despite him being rich, he can't time travel and invent technology. He's almost 60 years old and this tech (jaw surgery with 3d planning and custom plates, custom 3d guided-surgery assisted lingual braces or aligners) wasn't available when he wanted to improve his smile, simple as that. Anyone that researches a little bit can get a way better smile today.
Ofc, he mogs hard because of hair, bones and eye area...but smile wise? No, it could be much better.

Greycel that has money and lurks here for a couple of months = better surgery results than any Hollywood star, unironically.

 

[It'snotover]

Agree, you would think they are smart but money and fame are not correlated to research or intelligence.
Tom Cruise actually had braces (the normal ones, self ligating or custom lingual braces weren't available by that time), and even then, the results are pretty mediocre:

View attachment 2112108

Look at his dental arch and his deviated midline, he needed a Lefort 1 cut to correct that, but digital tech wasn't available back then and he didn't risk it, just went with conventional orthodontics instead (wise decision tbh). His teeth look stained in some pictures, so he didn't have veneers (and if he had, they were the cheap composite ones, which I highly doubt he would get).

He gets brutally smile mogged by the average person who got blackpilled modern orthodontics/surgery and custom hand made refractory veneers.
Custom hand made refractory veneers video:


Raffaini patient before and after, check the symmetry of the midline and the smile arch:
View attachment 2112104View attachment 2112105View attachment 2112108

Cruise is tremendously asymmetric in comparison and has a much worse smile arch. It's normal because despite him being rich, he can't time travel and invent technology. He's almost 60 years old and this tech (jaw surgery with 3d planning and custom plates, custom 3d guided-surgery assisted lingual braces or aligners) wasn't available when he wanted to do improve his smile, simple as that. Anyone that researches a little bit can get a way better smile today.
Ofc, he mogs hard because of hair, bones and eye area...but smile wise? No, it could be much better.

Greycel that has money and lurks here for a couple of months > better surgery results than any Hollywood star, unironically.

I knew he had braces, but i thought he also had veneers. In some pics his teeth looks very white, so i assumed he had some. I'm not surprised that he has asymmetries in his palate, paul coceancing and another maxfac eviscerated him in a video on yt explaining if his jaw growth was natural or not and IF I'M NOT WRONG they said that it was mostly chewing+ late puberty(jfl) but that he's asymmetric and would be a lefort 1 candidate. He has deviated septum too. Keep in mind that i saw the video 1 year ago so i don’t remember everything they said. Still, even 7psl chad can improve(like o'pry with his thin eyebrows, weak gonions and disgusting teeth destroyed by clenching). However, his asymmetries are small for me, they are mainly nose and glabella/ brow bone. His eyes are very symmetric which is what makes the other asymmetries not noticeable.
This is the vid btw

 

[NegativeNorwood]

I knew he had braces, but i thought he also had veneers. In some pics his teeth looks very white, so i assumed he had some. I'm not surprised that he has asymmetries in his palate, paul coceancing and another maxfac eviscerated him in a video on yt explaining if his jaw growth was natural or not and IF I'M NOT WRONG they said that it was mostly chewing+ late puberty(jfl) but that he's asymmetric and would be a lefort 1 candidate. He has deviated septum too. Keep in mind that i saw the video 1 year ago so i don’t remember everything they said. Still, even 7psl chad can improve(like o'pry with his thin eyebrows, weak gonions and disgusting teeth destroyed by clenching). However, his asymmetries are small for me, they are mainly nose and glabella/ brow bone. His eyes are very symmetric which is what makes the other asymmetries not noticeable.
This is the vid btw

Great video, I still remember watching it too like almost a year ago. Agree with you and Paul, he is a naturally good looking person who had conventional orthodontics and benefited from puberty (and some masseter hypertrophy, to some degree, but because he already had a wide jaw with outward gonions). Basically, he had tons of luck.

Yeah him and O'pry are still 7 PSL despite having some defects here and there.

Another celebrity that had conventional braces, and still doesn't have a perfect smile arch is Angelina Jolie. She had tons of luck because she had the palate width of an animal to begin with:

You would think that her daughter, Shiloh, benefits from current technology wears custom lingual braces right?

No, she has self ligating braces (better than normal but not super top of the line like the custom lingual ones). Everyone that doesn't wear Invisalign gets the self ligating braces on any decent clinic.

Same with James Franco, conventional braces and no veneers:

He had 50+ mm intermolar width before braces, 100% sure. And that's one of Hollywood best smiles btw, it's gummy and teeth are stained.

To get to the point and avoid derailing the thread, anyone that researches a bit and has money will have better results than any celebrity. The ones that had orthodontics were already good looking to begin with.

 

[looksseg]

Hollywood’s are the best one. There is a reason why actors and models use them. Aesthetically superior, even if it’s not like a natural teeth

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Hollywood’s are the best one. There is a reason why actors and models use them. Aesthetically superior, even if it’s not like a natural teeth
View attachment 2112205

Tbh with you, that's a very shitty result compared to the hand made porcelain ones in the OP. Very opaque and too white, looks very artificial, like the zirconia example in the OP.

I mean, just compare that crap with this:


In your example, her teeth looked much better before, had less opacity, more natural shade and color and on top of that, she had most of her enamel intact, so whoever did that is a butcher.

 

[BasedUgandacel]

Good thread OP, but when it comes to the veeners a lot of things should one consider. I would defo not recco to anyone going for the full ones - the ones that you have to destroy your natural teeth. Composite bonding is a reasonable option and I will be going for it myself.

Also, under any circumstances, you should defo not go for a super toilet-white shades. It looks super uncanny and fake. Just look at Jurgen Klopp, Liverpool coach. His smile is literally screaming: "HEY EVERYONE LOOK, I'VE DONE MY TEETH"

Kloppilled

 

[NegativeNorwood]

From world class ceramist Dmitriy Averin:

"Often veneers look outsized and out of place. Let me explain you why.
It’s all about proportions first, followed by color and finally details.

Just 4 veneers here initially looked bulky and disproportionate, making upper jaw visually narrow. The trick is to start by managing the space properly with emphasis on domination of centrals along with adequate smile curve and width. Here 12 #porcelainveneers as a part of full-mouth case.

Perception of teeth’ dimensions are also affected by color. And color created by layering of porcelain on refractory or platinum foil (totally hand-crafted ) is completely different from the color of milled monolithic. Monolithic always makes it look larger. And layered veneers can be performed as thin as possible.

And finally details matter - from line angles that reflect light and determine our visual perception of the shape to texture and translucency of incisal edge."



Just remember, for front teeth, is either indirect composite (your teeth are mostly intact and just need minimal retouches) or hand made refractory or platinum foil porcelain veneers (teeth already lost enamel so you don't lose anything with getting some minimal tooth shaving done to place them, sometimes teeth are so damaged that no preparation is needed).

Anything else is subpar, do NOT settle for CAD CAM monolithic veneers of any kind, those are only good for crowns in the back molars (and rarely needed unless you have giant cavities in the molar and lost most of it).

 

[NECK&VOICE]

Veneers are stupid. They always look fake and cringe. Good actors don't get veneers. Look at Tom Cruise, natural teeth. Johnny Depp, natural teeth. Veneers give that artificial, fake faggot look. Same as tretitonin glow, same as fillers. Don't

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Veneers are stupid. They always look fake and cringe. Good actors don't get veneers. Look at Tom Cruise, natural teeth. Johnny Depp, natural teeth. Veneers give that artificial, fake faggot look. Same as tretitonin glow, same as fillers. Don't

Read the thread.
Bad veneers for people with healthy teeth are stupid. Well made veneers for people who don't have healthy tooth enamel are great.
Fillers are dogshit, that's true.

CAD CAM Zirconia veneers + fillers = faggot look

 

[NECK&VOICE]

If anything you want your teeth to be slightly yellow from smoking to give you that rugged, gritty look.

A pale being too polished with perfect teeth, perfect cut at all times, perfect tretitonin glowing "healthy" shrinkwrap faggot skin with zero fine-lines or wrinkles IS NOT SEXY.

Only BONE matters.

Unironically you want to look more like him for maximum masc sex appeal:

 

[NegativeNorwood]

If anything you want your teeth to be slightly yellow from smoking to give you that rugged, gritty look.

A pale being too polished with perfect teeth, perfect cut at all times, perfect tretitonin glowing "healthy" shrinkwrap faggot skin with zero fine-lines or wrinkles IS NOT SEXY.

Only BONE matters.

Unironically you want to look more like him for maximum masc sex appeal:

- Posts chad with makeup (that's from a movie lmao at you) to prove "rugged" looking men look better.

Room temperature IQ, gtfo of my thread retard, keep coping with your rotten teeth.

 

[NECK&VOICE]

- Posts chad with makeup (that's from a movie lmao at you) to prove "rugged" looking men look better.

Room temperature IQ, gtfo of my thread retard, keep coping with your rotten teeth.

Funny you say that. My teeth are actually perfect from toothmaxxing, but I am high IQ enough to realize it doesn't matter and if anything makes me just look like more of a weak pretty boy faggot not masculine Chad slayer

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Funny you say that. My teeth are actually perfect from toothmaxxing, but I am high IQ enough to realize it doesn't matter and if anything makes me just look like more of a weak pretty boy faggot not masculine Chad slayer

Say that louder, can't hear you over the sound of my ignore button.

 

[Giorgio]

Greycel that has money and lurks here for a couple of months = better surgery results than any Hollywood star, unironically.

I've been thinking why celebs so often have terrible results, and I think it boils down to lack of research like you said, but another very big thing is that they can't have downtime.
Why are fillers so fillers over implants in hollywood? When fillers are notorious for the bloated look & migrating?

Because implants make you swollen for quite some time, and fillers are done in one afternoon, they don't require downtime for you to recover from swelling.

 

[NegativeNorwood]

I've been thinking why celebs so often have terrible results, and I think it boils down to lack of research like you said, but another very big thing is that they can't have downtime.
Why are fillers so fillers over implants in hollywood? When fillers are notorious for the bloated look & migrating?

Because implants make you swollen for quite some time, and fillers are done in one afternoon, they don't require downtime for you to recover from swelling.

This makes lots of sense and probably is true.

I mean, even if they do their research, imagine turning down 2 or 3 multi million $ movies one year because 20k usd implants need a year to look fully natural. Meanwhile, fillers "look good" at the moment, and they can still do their job. That's how they end up with those balloon faces.

 

[Jigen]

Good thread OP.

 

[IMZLEGEND]

Good p

[Recopilating this info took me a month of reading papers and studies done for dentists, coupled with very thorough Instagram searches and watching seminars from top tier ceramists. There's nothing wrote in depth about veneers and the market itself is shady af, I hope this helps you to ascend].

First of all, if you have a malocclusion, a narrow smile, crowded teeth, etc, you have to fix it first, non negotiable. There are plenty of threads here that have everything you need with regards to jaw surgery, palate widening or even surgically assisted orthodontics. This guide is only useful if you already have a class 1 occlusion, non recessed jaw and adequate palate width, but not good tooth enamel and as such need veneers or crowns (or you only need braces to straighten your teeth and widen your dental arch a little bit, and also contemplate veneers to improve your teeth's appeareance, but you don't have jaw recession or a narrow palate as mentioned before).

IMPORTANT: veneers are made by ceramists, not dentists, and the ceramist skills trumps the material used. A top tier ceramist can make EMAX or even indirect composite veneers look much better than porcelain made by a mediocre ceramist.

What type of veneer/crown materials exist?

- Metal made crowns: this look like shit and are obsolete, avoid at all costs.

- Zirconia made crowns and veeners: this are the highest strenght available and replaced metal made crowns. They are more suitable for molars, their strenght is twice as much as the natural tooth enamel. So, why not do a full mouth restoration out of zirconia? Because it has the lowest translucency and looks very artificial, so it is the worst looking material possible. The typical Hollywood/Instagram artificial smile is made with zirconia most of the time:

- Lithium disilicate veneers and crowns (EMAX): this is very popular and has the same strenght as tooth enamel in monolithic form. It looks better than zirconia but not as good as natural teeth. It is the best material for molars, because it is more aesthetic than zirconia and matches the natural enamel strenght. It can be stratified with porcelain on top to look better and resemble natural teeth a lot more. The downside is that it looses strenght and is not suitable for back molars like before. The higher the translucency and aesthetics, the lower the strenght, this is a consistent tradeoff. The norm with EMAX restorations usually is to have monolithic, non stratified crowns on molars, and stratified, higher aesthetics but lower strenght veneers/crowns in the front.
EMAX veneers stratified with porcelain on top:

- Composite veneers (direct and indirect): this are the cheapest possible veneer, and can be done direct (the dentist does it in the same visit) or indirect (a mold of your teeth is send to a lab where they make the veneers). The very best option, of course, is to have a top tier ceramist make you indirect composite veneers. Don't be fooled by their price, for the right patient, they mog EMAX. Downside is that they last half as much as EMAX or Porcelain, and stain with tobacco or tea (not that you should be smoking but is good to know) and have a very low strenght. This is an example of indirect composite veneers done by a great ceramist:

As you can see, he already have very good tooth enamel and color, but weird central incisors. Indirect composite can give high translucency and mimic natural enamel to a large degree, and because he already had a great starting point, he saved lots of money and got a mogger result.

- Off the shelf porcelain veneers (Lumineers, Empress): Don't get me wrong, this are still custom made to fit your teeth, but not as much as other alternatives that I'll mention. This type of porcelain veneer has higher translucency and aesthetics than EMAX (monolithic or stratified), but is not as strong, so they can't be used for molars. They are sold as no prep veneers, but you have to be careful with this, because most veneers normally need some take some teeth away to look natural and avoid a bulky look. While we should strive to preserve as much teeth as possible, we shouldn't fall for the always minimally invasive meme and get a subpar result too. This is one example I found, as you can see, it looks good but not much better than EMAX. IMO well done composite mogs this, and if you have cash, you should avoid it and skip to the next two alternatives I'm going to talk about.

- Fully custom feldspathic porcelain veneers (CAD/CAM made): OK, as the name implies, this are fully custom made for you. Feldspathic porcelain is the material most similar to teeth enamel and the one with the highest aesthetics, period. CAD/CAM veneers and crowns designed with software using a microcamera to take thousands of pictures of your mouth, print a realistic mold and send it to a lab, where a technician CNC mills a block of porcelain until it obtains the desired shape, and a ceramist hand paints it to obtain a natural result. With softwares like Smile Cloud, you can even see how the smile will look on you, both static and in motion (!). The same technique can be used for EMAX and Zirconia too, in fact, is much more common to have fully custom EMAX veneers with this method, but you can get feldspathic porcelain too.

So, this mogs brutally and that's it? Not so fast, being milled from a single block, they still lack translucency and aesthetics compared to this alternative, which mogs so hard it will shock you.

- Fully custom, hand made on platinum foil or refractory method feldspathic porcelain veneers: this methods are the old school way of doing porcelain veneers, and by far the most aesthetic if done by a good ceramist. The porcelain, in powder state, is layered by hand by the ceramist until the desired shape and color is obtained. The only con is that they are weaker than tooth enamel, so they are not good for the molars. You can still get the 10 anterior teeth and the sides of your molars veneered (if you have a true 12 tooth smile) with it.

Words don't describe how hard this mogs, so I'm going to leave you with this instead:





We haven't touched on inlays and outlays, which are like partial crowns. If your teeth is not that damaged to warrant a crown, you can (and should) have an inlay or outlay, made with EMAX if it's in the molars, or with indirect composite or hand made porcelain if you want if it is in the front teeth. These are also cheaper than veneers and crowns by around 30%.

Normally, in Spain, this would be the prices per tooth:

- Indirect composite: 200-300€
- EMAX: 500-700€ (CAD-CAM, stratified or not)
- Lumineers/Empress: 500-700€
- CAD/CAM Porcelain: 500-700€
- Hand made Porcelain: 700-1000€

Hand made porcelain by a world class ceramist can cost up to 2000-2500€ per tooth (see Dr_Averin IG recent IG posts ).

TL;DR: you either have this smile or nothing, no excuses other than money:

but she is still yellow teeth

 

[IMZLEGEND]

What’s veneers does it whiten teeth most teeth celebs showed are still yellow

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Good p

but she is still yellow teeth

Wtf is that?
That pixel you showed is not yellow btw.

What’s veneers does it whiten teeth most teeth celebs showed are still yellow

The celebs I posted didn't have veneers done. And most get nuclear white shit Zirconia veneers.
Good veneers are supposed to give you teeth like the ones you had as a teen, before their color and enamel were damaged, not to make teeth whiter per se, which extremely easy to do and looks like shit 100% of the time (ie: the zirconia result in the OP)

 

[IMZLEGEND]

Wtf is that?
That pixel you showed is not yellow btw.



The celebs I posted didn't have veneers done. And most get nuclear white shit Zirconia veneers.
Good veneers are supposed to give you teeth like the ones you had as a teen, before their color and enamel were damaged, not to make teeth whiter per se, which extremely easy to do and looks like shit 100% of the time (ie: the zirconia result in the OP)

Is it healthy tho unnatural surgery or safe?

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Is it healthy tho unnatural surgery or safe?

Read the thread.
Good if your tooth enamel is already damaged, bad if your teeth enamel is in good shape and just need a pro cleaning or bleaching to achieve perfect results.

 

[IMZLEGEND]

Read the thread.
Good if your tooth enamel is already damaged, bad if your teeth enamel is in good shape and just need a pro cleaning or bleaching to achieve perfect results.

any way to fix my enamel beside veneers, if I get them do I need to change regularly?

 

[IMZLEGEND]

Also how much does it cost where should I get it done at best uk btw

 

[NegativeNorwood]

any way to fix my enamel beside veneers, if I get them do I need to change regularly?

No. Composite every 5-7 years, Porcelain and lithium disilicate every 10-20 years.

Also how much does it cost where should I get it done at best uk btw

Read the thread ffs, not going to spoon feed you more.

 

[garoupilled_]

what softwares besides smile cloud did u find for this? i was looking into CAD/CAM softwares for custom implants but didnt find much

 

[IMZLEGEND]

No. Composite every 5-7 years, Porcelain and lithium disilicate every 10-20 years.



Read the thread ffs, not going to spoon feed you more.

Sorry mate

 

[IMZLEGEND]

No. Composite every 5-7 years, Porcelain and lithium disilicate every 10-20 years.



Read the thread ffs, not going to spoon feed you more.

ur too high iq I’m low iq regarding these topics

 

[NegativeNorwood]

what softwares besides smile cloud did u find for this? i was looking into CAD/CAM softwares for custom implants but didnt find much

No idea. I've only seen Smile Cloud atm, didn't reseach more because IMO the hand made refractory veneers brutally mog the CAD CAM ones.
I know Adobe has a CAD software but don't know about any others

 

[NegativeNorwood]

ur too high iq I’m low iq regarding these topics

Maybe I was a bit harsh, sorry. IMO you should avoid the UK for cosmetic procedures. Spain and Italy are cheaper and have much better professionals on average. The best way to find them is instagram, search for hasthags, like #feldspathicveneers or in spanish #carillasfeldespaticas. Most of them speak english and use english hashtags so you shouldn't have any trouble finding a good one that doesn't have many followers and does great veneers for a reasonable price (the hand made porcelain ones cost in between 700-1000€ per tooth, and the composite ones 200-300€ per tooth).

 

[IMZLEGEND]

Maybe I was a bit harsh, sorry. IMO you should avoid the UK for cosmetic procedures. Spain and Italy are cheaper and have much better professionals on average. The best way to find them is instagram, search for hasthags, like #feldspathicveneers or in spanish #carillasfeldespaticas. Most of them speak english and use english hashtags so you shouldn't have any trouble finding a good one that doesn't have many followers and does great veneers for a reasonable price (the hand made porcelain ones cost in between 700-1000€ per tooth, and the composite ones 200-300€ per tooth).

No worries my bad for not understanding, great will look into it thx for the info mate

 

[MadTwatter]

[Recopilating this info took me a month of reading papers and studies done for dentists, coupled with very thorough Instagram searches and watching seminars from top tier ceramists. There's nothing wrote in depth about veneers and the market itself is shady af, I hope this helps you to ascend].

First of all, if you have a malocclusion, a narrow smile, crowded teeth, etc, you have to fix it first, non negotiable. There are plenty of threads here that have everything you need with regards to jaw surgery, palate widening or even surgically assisted orthodontics. This guide is only useful if you already have a class 1 occlusion, non recessed jaw and adequate palate width, but not good tooth enamel and as such need veneers or crowns (or you only need braces to straighten your teeth and widen your dental arch a little bit, and also contemplate veneers to improve your teeth's appeareance, but you don't have jaw recession or a narrow palate as mentioned before).

IMPORTANT: veneers are made by ceramists, not dentists, and the ceramist skills trumps the material used. A top tier ceramist can make EMAX or even indirect composite veneers look much better than porcelain made by a mediocre ceramist.

What type of veneer/crown materials exist?

- Metal made crowns: this look like shit and are obsolete, avoid at all costs.

- Zirconia made crowns and veeners: this are the highest strenght available and replaced metal made crowns. They are more suitable for molars, their strenght is twice as much as the natural tooth enamel. So, why not do a full mouth restoration out of zirconia? Because it has the lowest translucency and looks very artificial, so it is the worst looking material possible. The typical Hollywood/Instagram artificial smile is made with zirconia most of the time:

- Lithium disilicate veneers and crowns (EMAX): this is very popular and has the same strenght as tooth enamel in monolithic form. It looks better than zirconia but not as good as natural teeth. It is the best material for molars, because it is more aesthetic than zirconia and matches the natural enamel strenght. It can be stratified with porcelain on top to look better and resemble natural teeth a lot more. The downside is that it looses strenght and is not suitable for back molars like before. The higher the translucency and aesthetics, the lower the strenght, this is a consistent tradeoff. The norm with EMAX restorations usually is to have monolithic, non stratified crowns on molars, and stratified, higher aesthetics but lower strenght veneers/crowns in the front.
EMAX veneers stratified with porcelain on top:

- Composite veneers (direct and indirect): this are the cheapest possible veneer, and can be done direct (the dentist does it in the same visit) or indirect (a mold of your teeth is send to a lab where they make the veneers). The very best option, of course, is to have a top tier ceramist make you indirect composite veneers. Don't be fooled by their price, for the right patient, they mog EMAX. Downside is that they last half as much as EMAX or Porcelain, and stain with tobacco or tea (not that you should be smoking but is good to know) and have a very low strenght. This is an example of indirect composite veneers done by a great ceramist:

As you can see, he already have very good tooth enamel and color, but weird central incisors. Indirect composite can give high translucency and mimic natural enamel to a large degree, and because he already had a great starting point, he saved lots of money and got a mogger result.

- Off the shelf porcelain veneers (Lumineers, Empress): Don't get me wrong, this are still custom made to fit your teeth, but not as much as other alternatives that I'll mention. This type of porcelain veneer has higher translucency and aesthetics than EMAX (monolithic or stratified), but is not as strong, so they can't be used for molars. They are sold as no prep veneers, but you have to be careful with this, because most veneers normally need some take some teeth away to look natural and avoid a bulky look. While we should strive to preserve as much teeth as possible, we shouldn't fall for the always minimally invasive meme and get a subpar result too. This is one example I found, as you can see, it looks good but not much better than EMAX. IMO well done composite mogs this, and if you have cash, you should avoid it and skip to the next two alternatives I'm going to talk about.

- Fully custom feldspathic porcelain veneers (CAD/CAM made): OK, as the name implies, this are fully custom made for you. Feldspathic porcelain is the material most similar to teeth enamel and the one with the highest aesthetics, period. CAD/CAM veneers and crowns designed with software using a microcamera to take thousands of pictures of your mouth, print a realistic mold and send it to a lab, where a technician CNC mills a block of porcelain until it obtains the desired shape, and a ceramist hand paints it to obtain a natural result. With softwares like Smile Cloud, you can even see how the smile will look on you, both static and in motion (!). The same technique can be used for EMAX and Zirconia too, in fact, is much more common to have fully custom EMAX veneers with this method, but you can get feldspathic porcelain too.

So, this mogs brutally and that's it? Not so fast, being milled from a single block, they still lack translucency and aesthetics compared to this alternative, which mogs so hard it will shock you.

- Fully custom, hand made on platinum foil or refractory method feldspathic porcelain veneers: this methods are the old school way of doing porcelain veneers, and by far the most aesthetic if done by a good ceramist. The porcelain, in powder state, is layered by hand by the ceramist until the desired shape and color is obtained. The only con is that they are weaker than tooth enamel, so they are not good for the molars. You can still get the 10 anterior teeth and the sides of your molars veneered (if you have a true 12 tooth smile) with it.

Words don't describe how hard this mogs, so I'm going to leave you with this instead:





We haven't touched on inlays and outlays, which are like partial crowns. If your teeth is not that damaged to warrant a crown, you can (and should) have an inlay or outlay, made with EMAX if it's in the molars, or with indirect composite or hand made porcelain if you want if it is in the front teeth. These are also cheaper than veneers and crowns by around 30%.

Normally, in Spain, this would be the prices per tooth:

- Indirect composite: 200-300€
- EMAX: 500-700€ (CAD-CAM, stratified or not)
- Lumineers/Empress: 500-700€
- CAD/CAM Porcelain: 500-700€
- Hand made Porcelain: 700-1000€

Hand made porcelain by a world class ceramist can cost up to 2000-2500€ per tooth (see Dr_Averin IG recent IG posts ).

TL;DR: you either have this smile or nothing, no excuses other than money:

“ultimate guide”
You didn’t mention celtra duo like mine