Ultimate veneers guide [High effort]

[Recopilating this info took me a month of reading papers and studies done for dentists, coupled with very thorough Instagram searches and watching seminars from top tier ceramists. There's nothing wrote in depth about veneers and the market itself is shady af, I hope this helps you to ascend].

First of all, if you have a malocclusion, a narrow smile, crowded teeth, etc, you have to fix it first, non negotiable. There are plenty of threads here that have everything you need with regards to jaw surgery, palate widening or even surgically assisted orthodontics. This guide is only useful if you already have a class 1 occlusion, non recessed jaw and adequate palate width, but not good tooth enamel and as such need veneers or crowns (or you only need braces to straighten your teeth and widen your dental arch a little bit, and also contemplate veneers to improve your teeth's appeareance, but you don't have jaw recession or a narrow palate as mentioned before).

IMPORTANT: veneers are made by ceramists, not dentists, and the ceramist skills trumps the material used. A top tier ceramist can make EMAX or even indirect composite veneers look much better than porcelain made by a mediocre ceramist.


What type of veneer/crown materials exist?

- Metal made crowns: this look like shit and are obsolete, avoid at all costs.

- Zirconia made crowns and veeners: this are the highest strenght available and replaced metal made crowns. They are more suitable for molars, their strenght is twice as much as the natural tooth enamel. So, why not do a full mouth restoration out of zirconia? Because it has the lowest translucency and looks very artificial, so it is the worst looking material possible. The typical Hollywood/Instagram artificial smile is made with zirconia most of the time:

dis-kaplamasi.jpeg


- Lithium disilicate veneers and crowns (EMAX): this is very popular and has the same strenght as tooth enamel in monolithic form. It looks better than zirconia but not as good as natural teeth. It is the best material for molars, because it is more aesthetic than zirconia and matches the natural enamel strenght. It can be stratified with porcelain on top to look better and resemble natural teeth a lot more. The downside is that it looses strenght and is not suitable for back molars like before. The higher the translucency and aesthetics, the lower the strenght, this is a consistent tradeoff. The norm with EMAX restorations usually is to have monolithic, non stratified crowns on molars, and stratified, higher aesthetics but lower strenght veneers/crowns in the front.
EMAX veneers stratified with porcelain on top:

a30.jpg


- Composite veneers (direct and indirect): this are the cheapest possible veneer, and can be done direct (the dentist does it in the same visit) or indirect (a mold of your teeth is send to a lab where they make the veneers). The very best option, of course, is to have a top tier ceramist make you indirect composite veneers. Don't be fooled by their price, for the right patient, they mog EMAX. Downside is that they last half as much as EMAX or Porcelain, and stain with tobacco or tea (not that you should be smoking but is good to know) and have a very low strenght. This is an example of indirect composite veneers done by a great ceramist:

13-a530d596.png

29-df201b76.png


As you can see, he already have very good tooth enamel and color, but weird central incisors. Indirect composite can give high translucency and mimic natural enamel to a large degree, and because he already had a great starting point, he saved lots of money and got a mogger result.

- Off the shelf porcelain veneers (Lumineers, Empress): Don't get me wrong, this are still custom made to fit your teeth, but not as much as other alternatives that I'll mention. This type of porcelain veneer has higher translucency and aesthetics than EMAX (monolithic or stratified), but is not as strong, so they can't be used for molars. They are sold as no prep veneers, but you have to be careful with this, because most veneers normally need some take some teeth away to look natural and avoid a bulky look. While we should strive to preserve as much teeth as possible, we shouldn't fall for the always minimally invasive meme and get a subpar result too. This is one example I found, as you can see, it looks good but not much better than EMAX. IMO well done composite mogs this, and if you have cash, you should avoid it and skip to the next two alternatives I'm going to talk about.

lumineers-veneers.jpg


- Fully custom feldspathic porcelain veneers (CAD/CAM made): OK, as the name implies, this are fully custom made for you. Feldspathic porcelain is the material most similar to teeth enamel and the one with the highest aesthetics, period. CAD/CAM veneers and crowns designed with software using a microcamera to take thousands of pictures of your mouth, print a realistic mold and send it to a lab, where a technician CNC mills a block of porcelain until it obtains the desired shape, and a ceramist hand paints it to obtain a natural result. With softwares like Smile Cloud, you can even see how the smile will look on you, both static and in motion (!). The same technique can be used for EMAX and Zirconia too, in fact, is much more common to have fully custom EMAX veneers with this method, but you can get feldspathic porcelain too.

biometric_design_tab_ok.7235e777.jpg


So, this mogs brutally and that's it? Not so fast, being milled from a single block, they still lack translucency and aesthetics compared to this alternative, which mogs so hard it will shock you.

- Fully custom, hand made on platinum foil or refractory method feldspathic porcelain veneers: this methods are the old school way of doing porcelain veneers, and by far the most aesthetic if done by a good ceramist. The porcelain, in powder state, is layered by hand by the ceramist until the desired shape and color is obtained. The only con is that they are weaker than tooth enamel, so they are not good for the molars. You can still get the 10 anterior teeth and the sides of your molars veneered (if you have a true 12 tooth smile) with it.

Words don't describe how hard this mogs, so I'm going to leave you with this instead:





We haven't touched on inlays and outlays, which are like partial crowns. If your teeth is not that damaged to warrant a crown, you can (and should) have an inlay or outlay, made with EMAX if it's in the molars, or with indirect composite or hand made porcelain if you want if it is in the front teeth. These are also cheaper than veneers and crowns by around 30%.

Normally, in Spain, this would be the prices per tooth:

- Indirect composite: 200-300€
- EMAX: 500-700€ (CAD-CAM, stratified or not)
- Lumineers/Empress: 500-700€
- CAD/CAM Porcelain: 500-700€
- Hand made Porcelain: 700-1000€

Hand made porcelain by a world class ceramist can cost up to 2000-2500€ per tooth (see Dr_Averin recent IG posts :feelswhy:).

TL;DR:
you either have this smile or nothing, no excuses other than money:

5-castano-mechas-rubias-naturales-1666349823.jpg
 
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“ultimate guide”
You didn’t mention celtra duo like mine

True, forgot about it. It's zirconia reinforced lithium disilicate, so good for molars only. Not a big miss. Looks bad compared to well done indirect composites, let alone hand made refractory veneers.
 
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fucking nigga , you're stratospheric IQ
feel like a fool now for arguing with you jfl
how to we convert a 8 tooth smile to 12 tooth ( aka reduce buccal corridors ?) MSE ? Palate expanders ?
 
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fucking nigga , you're stratospheric IQ
feel like a fool now for arguing with you jfl
how to we convert a 8 tooth smile to 12 tooth ( aka reduce buccal corridors ?) MSE ? Palate expanders ?

Thanks jfl
It depends, if you have a truly narrow palate, SARPE with a custom bone anchored expander + braces.
If you have an ok palate but narrow dental arch, you can have surgically assisted braces (corticotomies and micro osteo perforations) to achieve it.
 
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True, forgot about it. It's zirconia reinforced lithium disilicate, so good for molars only. Not a big miss. Looks bad compared to well done indirect composites, let alone hand made refractory veneers.
My dentist told me they interact with light more realistically than Emax, especially in the UV spectrum. They glow in low light in a way that normal teeth do and Emax don’t. They’re nearly twice as expensive as Emax too.
 
My dentist told me they interact with light more realistically than Emax, especially in the UV spectrum. They glow in low light in a way that normal teeth do and Emax don’t. They’re nearly twice as expensive as Emax too.

I'll confess I didn't read too much about them, only that they were zirconia layered lithium disilicate and saw some before and afters.

Still, if it is a brand name like Emax or Empress, it falls under the not fully custom made tier, and get's mogged by the hand made platinum foil or refractory porcelain ones for anterior teeth. If they have enamel like strenght like Emax (which they should), they would be an awesome choice for the molars IMO.
Higher strenght = lower translucency = worse aesthetics is a constant here, if it is bad for molars, it looks great for anterior teeth, that's why there are not refractory porcelain crowns for molars, they would break in a few days.

If they have higher translucency than Emax and similar strenght, then they are a great choice for people who need full mouth restorations and want to use a single material instead of mixing and matching.
 
hey OP can you look at dr.Veytsman's minimal prep veneers in NYC and tell me if they are a good option?

 
hey OP can you look at dr.Veytsman's minimal prep veneers in NYC and tell me if they are a good option?


Very bad, run as fast as you can. All the veneers look artificial and too opaque. In some cases, the patients already had perfect enamel and just needed braces/Invisalign, but he charged them lots of money for quick, low effort veneers instead. Wrong and unethical.
 
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how do i know if my teeth are in a fucked up condition?
 
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no veneers for palate

sarpe or 9=0ver
 
Very bad, run as fast as you can. All the veneers look artificial and too opaque. In some cases, the patients already had perfect enamel and just needed braces/Invisalign, but he charged them lots of money for quick, low effort veneers instead. Wrong and unethical.
damn thanks she was on top of my list. also amazing thread btw.

also looking into this guy, dr. kosdon. he has "highly esthetic feldspathic 'contact lens' veneers" that does the layering technique you described. could you please tell me if this doctor is good enough? his results look good to me.

His description: "Highly esthetic feldspathic “contact lens” veneers are super-thin veneers that require the minimum amount of tooth preparation prior to placement. In some cases, no preparation is required at all. These veneers are meticulously handcrafted using an innovative stacking technique, which micro-layers the porcelain to deliver a superior, natural-looking appearance."

His webpage: https://www.smilesofnyc.com/cosmetic-dentistry/porcelain-veneers-manhattan-new-york/

His results: https://www.smilesofnyc.com/gallery/
 
damn thanks she was on top of my list. also amazing thread btw.

also looking into this guy, dr. kosdon. he has "highly esthetic feldspathic 'contact lens' veneers" that does the layering technique you described. could you please tell me if this doctor is good enough? his results look good to me.

His description: "Highly esthetic feldspathic “contact lens” veneers are super-thin veneers that require the minimum amount of tooth preparation prior to placement. In some cases, no preparation is required at all. These veneers are meticulously handcrafted using an innovative stacking technique, which micro-layers the porcelain to deliver a superior, natural-looking appearance."

His webpage: https://www.smilesofnyc.com/cosmetic-dentistry/porcelain-veneers-manhattan-new-york/

His results: https://www.smilesofnyc.com/gallery/
wait im sorry to bother but could you please check out this other dentist. apparently she is the only one in NYC who does feldspathic using that platinum foil method you were describing. which dentist do you think mogs more, pia or kosdon?

feldspathic veneer webpage: https://www.cosmeticdentistrycenternyc.com/porcelain-veneers/

results: https://www.cosmeticdentistrycenternyc.com/before-and-after/

First is bad. Second is decent but nothing great, and probably charges a fortune per teeth because it is based in New York.
Take a look at this, IMO this is how top tier veneers look like:





I reached out to him on IG and he told that he charges 1650€ per tooth in a full mouth restoration, so it is very expensive, but I guess cheaper than the ones you sent me. Look at how natural the results are in comparison, there's no contest.
 
Have you looked into the doctors in Jordan who advertise very good looking veneers?
 
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Have you looked into the doctors in Jordan who advertise very good looking veneers?

Gotta admit not too much. I found an armenian one that has godly results (Bagrat Sargsyan), but didn't tell me the price. Probably a fortune because he goes to conferences in Dubai and has 40k IG followers. Dr Averin in the OP is ucranian and doubled the price (which already was stratospheric) in just a couple of instagram posts in a very short amount of time.

There must be some pretty great doctors without many followers out there that charge reasonable prices and make top tier feldspathic veneers, but they must be really hard to find. Do you know some of them?

There's a clinic in Spain (Friedlander) that talks about hand made feldspathic veneers and charges up to 800€ per tooth according to their website, but barely have any results posted, most of them are ceramics and composites.
 
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Gotta admit not too much. I found an armenian one that has godly results (Bagrat Sargsyan), but didn't tell me the price. Probably a fortune because he goes to conferences in Dubai and has 40k IG followers. Dr Averin in the OP is ucranian and doubled the price (which already was stratospheric) in just a couple of instagram posts in a very short amount of time.

There must be some pretty great doctors without many followers out there that charge reasonable prices and make top tier feldspathic veneers, but they must be really hard to find. Do you know some of them?

There's a clinic in Spain (Friedlander) that talks about hand made feldspathic veneers and charges up to 800€ per tooth according to their website, but barely have any results posted, most of them are ceramics and composites.
do you think there are any good doctors in the new york / new jersey / connecticut area or should i travel somewhere? if im spending this big money it has to be with the very best. im surprised at the lack of options...
 
do you think there are any good doctors in the new york / new jersey / connecticut area or should i travel somewhere? if im spending this big money it has to be with the very best. im surprised at the lack of options...

There should be some, that's for sure. Search on IG, I found all the good results using hasthags like #feldspathicveneers or #feldspathiccrowns. Best luck!
 
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bro im sorry i just trust your judgment way more than anything else 😭

would it be possible for you to find me a dentist that is at most a 2 hour flight from NYC that does veneers using the feldspathic aluminum foil stacking method that you described - a dentist whose results you think mog? price is not an issue, i just want the best aesthetic result possible with that feldspathic method you were describing

it's hard finding someone who says on their website they do feldspathic, and i dont have an aesthetic eye so idk what im even looking at.

I'll send you 0.1 ETH for the trouble just send me your addy
 
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bro im sorry i just trust your judgment way more than anything else 😭

would it be possible for you to find me a dentist that is at most a 2 hour flight from NYC that does veneers using the feldspathic aluminum foil stacking method that you described - a dentist whose results you think mog? price is not an issue, i just want the best aesthetic result possible with that feldspathic method you were describing

it's hard finding someone who says on their website they do feldspathic, and i dont have an aesthetic eye so idk what im even looking at.

I'll send you 0.1 ETH for the trouble just send me your addy

Wow man, thanks!
Will search for one that has great work and dm you later this weekend :feelsez:
 
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@Rollie Pollie DM me when you can bro, you don't have the dms enabled.
 
same question @NegativeNorwood

Visit a dentist to be 100% sure.
But as a rule of thumb, if teeth look like this, you are great candidate for veneers:

images
anteriorerosion.jpg


As you can see, the tooth are eroded and lost a large amount of enamel. No cleaning of bleaching is going to improve it. Ofc, those are extreme examples to make the explanation clearer.


A more subtle example:
veneers-front.png


This is NOT a candidate for veneers, because she has all her tooth enamel intact. The result you see here is from bleaching:

before-after-teeth-whitening.jpg


Bleaching wouldn't be helpful at all in the other cases because they need to augment their teeth, and as such they benefit from veneers. It would only be useful for people who wants veneers a shade or two whiter than their natural teeth AFAIK. But cleaning or bleaching alone only gives perfect smiles to people who already have them.
 
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Timely thread

Am flying next week to Turkey to get 16 emax installed myself

8 on top 8 on bottom. Have since visited local ortho who has confirmed I have overbite 60-70 so hoping I can mewmaxx my way to a normal 30 occlusion 1 or i've done goofd. I honestly cba with invisaline.

Also been wondering recently if it is pointless to get veneers on bottom arch as they don't show when I smile. Thoughts OP?
 

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Timely thread

Am flying next week to Turkey to get 16 emax installed myself

8 on top 8 on bottom. Have since visited local ortho who has confirmed I have overbite 60-70 so hoping I can mewmaxx my way to a normal 30 occlusion 1 or i've done goofd. I honestly cba with invisaline.

Also been wondering recently if it is pointless to get veneers on bottom arch as they don't show when I smile. Thoughts OP?

If you have an overbite, get bimax first to fix it. Mewing won't do shit for you, stop coping.
Veneers after that. Oh, and I would run fast from that place just reading the words "EMAX-Turkey-210€ per veneer", 99.999% sure you'll get the most artificial, opaque nuclear white shit possible.
 
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If you have an overbite, get bimax first to fix it. Mewing won't do shit for you, stop coping.
Veneers after that. Oh, and I would run fast from that place just reading the words "EMAX-Turkey-210€ per veneer", 99.999% sure you'll get the most artificial, opaque nuclear white shit possible.
Biomax is not an option.

Any alternatives, like filler? Thoughts on mewing too and why it’s not gonna do shit (am bottom bell iq). I’m getting them regardless, will be a good improvement on my current
 
Is there point getting lower part done if its not visible when we smile and it's not crooked?
 
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Biomax is not an option.

Any alternatives, like filler? Thoughts on mewing too and why it’s not gonna do shit (am bottom bell iq). I’m getting them regardless, will be a good improvement on my current

Mewing will help you by not making you more recessed, but it won't give you a better bone structure, if you are over 8 years old, it's too late for that. It's like wanting to grow 5 inches at age 30 just by standing straight...pure bs.

Fillers are dogshit. If you are recessed, you need bimax, period.

Better to be a normal-ugly guy, than a botched one. Do things right or don't do them.

Is there point getting lower part done if its not visible when we smile and it's not crooked?

If lower teeth are perfect, not, because the upper veneers should match the lower teeth then and not be distinguishable from them if well done.
OTOH, if the lower teeth are in bad condition, you have to get veneers for them to make them perfect and match the veneers on the upper teeth, otherwise it looks uncanny af, because lower teeth show most of the time when smiling. Imagine how uncanny she will look if her lower teeth looked bad but the upper ones good:

90221a728d374dcc48a319bfc4184655.jpg
b39d3a3ebd7b3c4575a144ed57e03732.jpg
 
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Ofc, if you have healthy teeth, just get a pro celaning and some bleaching done, it will be better than any veneer. This is for people who doesn't have healthy enamel (which can't be recovered) and as such is a good candidate for veneers.
a lot of retards get veneers even though their teeth look fine. examples are right here in this thread:
a30.jpg

lumineers-veneers.jpg


needed whitening and/or enamel reshaping at most
 
a lot of retards get veneers even though their teeth look fine. examples are right here in this thread:
a30.jpg

lumineers-veneers.jpg


needed whitening and/or enamel reshaping at most

The first had one central incisor, one small lateral incisor and lacks part of the right canine. Went a bit overboard and should have gotten composites on those three instead of 8 veneers IMO.

Agree with the second, had perfect teeth and ruined them with those shitty zirconia veneers. A slight whitening should have been a perfect solution. The "dentists" that do those things should be put in jail.
 
The first had one central incisor, one small lateral incisor and lacks part of the right canine. Went a bit overboard and should have gotten composites on those three instead of 8 veneers IMO.

Agree with the second, had perfect teeth and ruined them with those shitty zirconia veneers. A slight whitening should have been a perfect solution. The "dentists" that do those things should be put in jail.
first one could have still gotten this with just some whitening and minor enamel reshaping:
Teeth


looks totally fine. at most she could have gotten composites to restore a bit of size on those two incisors like you said. but lol @ shaving down everything to get a full set of veneers here.

i'm surprised dentists even commonly agree to do veneers as much as they do when it really goes against their whole philosophy of preserving natural teeth as much as possible. kinda weird. guess it's greed.
 
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first one could have still gotten this with just some whitening and minor enamel reshaping:
View attachment 2124072

looks totally fine. at most she could have gotten composites to restore a bit of size on those two incisors like you said. but lol @ shaving down everything to get a full set of veneers here.

i'm surprised dentists even commonly agree to do veneers as much as they do when it really goes against their whole philosophy of preserving natural teeth as much as possible. kinda weird. guess it's greed.

Agree, 3 composite veneers (that do not need shaving tooth btw) would have been perfect, with an even better result than what he got. Damaging healthy teeth without reason is retarded.

I think most of them lack ethics, like the orthos that propose setbacks or extractions instead of expansion and jaw surgery. They know 100% what they are doing, but want easy money and don't care about the patients at all.
 
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Or just buy this for much cheaper and no damage to natural teeth

 
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Agree, 3 composite veneers (that do not need shaving tooth btw) would have been perfect, with an even better result than what he got. Damaging healthy teeth without reason is retarded.

I think most of them lack ethics, like the orthos that propose setbacks or extractions instead of expansion and jaw surgery. They know 100% what they are doing, but want easy money and don't care about the patients at all.
mirin thread anyway. teeth aesthetics are extremely underrated here. a lot of people have meh looking teeth so having a nice, natural looking smile can really set you apart + having shitty teeth can ruin someone that otherwise looks good.

made a thread on gum aesthetics last year that went under the radar too lol
 
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I have good occasion to get composite veneers for 150EUR per tooth, but Im worried they will stain quickly or break. I drink a lot of coffee and tea. Is it easy to remove it in the future to replace it with real veneers? How last do these last on average? Or is it better to save up for veneers? I want to make the upper teeth longer and overall whiter.

my teeth:
1680107970257
 
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I have good occasion to get composite veneers for 150EUR per tooth, but Im worried they will stain quickly or break. I drink a lot of coffee and tea. Is it easy to remove it in the future to replace it with real veneers? How last do these last on average? Or is it better to save up for veneers? I want to make the upper teeth longer and overall whiter.

my teeth:
View attachment 2129019

You are a great candidate for veneers.
IMO go for the ones you like the most, because if the composite ones cost you 150€ and the hand made porcelain ones 600€, but the composite ones last you 5-7 years and the porcelain ones can last up to 20 (but usually last 10-15), you would be paying more or less the same at the end.
Ask your dentist for more details ofc, personally I would save for the porcelain ones, specially if you drink tea and coffee.
 
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@Alexanderr is it possible to give the OP editing privileges temporarily so he could reformat the guide. It's all he's missing for BOTB.
 
Mewing will help you by not making you more recessed, but it won't give you a better bone structure, if you are over 8 years old, it's too late for that. It's like wanting to grow 5 inches at age 30 just by standing straight...pure bs.

Fillers are dogshit. If you are recessed, you need bimax, period.

Better to be a normal-ugly guy, than a botched one. Do things right or don't do them.



If lower teeth are perfect, not, because the upper veneers should match the lower teeth then and not be distinguishable from them if well done.
OTOH, if the lower teeth are in bad condition, you have to get veneers for them to make them perfect and match the veneers on the upper teeth, otherwise it looks uncanny af, because lower teeth show most of the time when smiling. Imagine how uncanny she will look if her lower teeth looked bad but the upper ones good:

90221a728d374dcc48a319bfc4184655.jpg
b39d3a3ebd7b3c4575a144ed57e03732.jpg

Update: Went through with the procedure over the past week. 18 emax veneers in total. 10 on top, 8 on the bottom.

Extremely impressed with results. Already had compliments from randoms like at the supermarket today with the checkout girl, lol. No doubt in my mind your suggestion of bio max and then veneers would give best results but, that’s a lot of effort and money. £3.5k for a defining face feature IMO is worth considering

Uploaded 2 before photos taken by UK ortho and 1 after - I got them to take on my iPhone when my face was still numb AF from anaesthetic, lmao. Can follow up with better mugshots when I get them from the clinic.

The veneers I chose are ‘bl3’ (bleach 3). So the third whitest. Dentist wanted me to go whiter but I wanted to strike a good balance of a having standout white smile that mogs, but still passable as natural, in order not to feel self conscious when i speak.

Also, I’m pretty sure it’s given me a wider smile due to the sizing of the porcelain veneers which is a buff.

Thoughts OP
 

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Update: Went through with the procedure over the past week. 18 emax veneers in total. 10 on top, 8 on the bottom.

Extremely impressed with results. Already had compliments from randoms like at the supermarket today with the checkout girl, lol. No doubt in my mind your suggestion of bio max and then veneers would give best results but, that’s a lot of effort and money. £3.5k for a defining face feature IMO is worth considering

Uploaded 2 before photos taken by UK ortho and 1 after - I got them to take on my iPhone when my face was still numb AF from anaesthetic, lmao. Can follow up with better mugshots when I get them from the clinic.

The veneers I chose are ‘bl3’ (bleach 3). So the third whitest. Wanted to strike a good balance of a having standout white smile but still passable as natural, in order not to feel self conscious when you speak.

Also, I’m pretty sure it’s given me a wider smile due to the sizing of the porcelain veneers which is a buff.

Thoughts OP

Glad everything went well. From the pic you provided, it definitely is a nice upgrade from where you started. Lifefuel you got a compliments from people, including a girl, just right after getting veneers, proves that the smilepill reigns supreme.
Enjoy the ascension!
 
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Glad everything went well. From the pic you provided, it definitely is a nice upgrade from where you started. Lifefuel you got a compliments from people, including a girl, just right after getting veneers, proves that the smilepill reigns supreme.
Enjoy the ascension!
Can you start a pm with me not sure how on this site
 
I have good occasion to get composite veneers for 150EUR per tooth, but Im worried they will stain quickly or break. I drink a lot of coffee and tea. Is it easy to remove it in the future to replace it with real veneers? How last do these last on average? Or is it better to save up for veneers? I want to make the upper teeth longer and overall whiter.

my teeth:
View attachment 2129019
Think very hard before you destroy your natural teeth for something fake.
 
Timely thread

Am flying next week to Turkey to get 16 emax installed myself

8 on top 8 on bottom. Have since visited local ortho who has confirmed I have overbite 60-70 so hoping I can mewmaxx my way to a normal 30 occlusion 1 or i've done goofd. I honestly cba with invisaline.

Also been wondering recently if it is pointless to get veneers on bottom arch as they don't show when I smile. Thoughts OP?
How much do ypu pay?
 
How much do ypu pay?
€3250 for 18 veneers + €200 for swapping 2 metal fillings I had to composite tooth coloured ones

Few hundred more for flights and hotel upgrade
 
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tldr faggot
 
Update: Went through with the procedure over the past week. 18 emax veneers in total. 10 on top, 8 on the bottom.

Extremely impressed with results. Already had compliments from randoms like at the supermarket today with the checkout girl, lol. No doubt in my mind your suggestion of bio max and then veneers would give best results but, that’s a lot of effort and money. £3.5k for a defining face feature IMO is worth considering

Uploaded 2 before photos taken by UK ortho and 1 after - I got them to take on my iPhone when my face was still numb AF from anaesthetic, lmao. Can follow up with better mugshots when I get them from the clinic.

The veneers I chose are ‘bl3’ (bleach 3). So the third whitest. Dentist wanted me to go whiter but I wanted to strike a good balance of a having standout white smile that mogs, but still passable as natural, in order not to feel self conscious when i speak.

Also, I’m pretty sure it’s given me a wider smile due to the sizing of the porcelain veneers which is a buff.

Thoughts OP
isn't BL color too white irl?
 
isn't BL color too white irl?
BL is the scale used at the clinic to indicate the colour. It ranges from BL1 - BL15

BL1 is Ultra Pure White, THE whitest white.
BL15 is very stained and I imagine the use case is for those who are only replacing one or two teeth and need the veneers to colour match their natural ones.

I’m not sure if this is an industry standard, but it’s the method used at the clinic I visited.

7236D234 F5DD 415A 9797 745B4813E308


You can see in the after photo BL3 has some yellow in so looks more realistic in that sense.
 
I've came across this vid which shows BL2 shade, and this is wayy to white for me. Im surprised how your not look smiliar to those on video
did they have to shave a lot of your teeth and did the procedure hurt?
 
I've came across this vid which shows BL2 shade, and this is wayy to white for me. Im surprised how your not look smiliar to those on video
did they have to shave a lot of your teeth and did the procedure hurt?

As I said I’m not sure if it’s an industry standard or if the scales differ clinic by clinic, but those definitely look like bl1’s. Bear in mind zirc’s have a different aesthetic to them as they reflect light differently to emax.

F2E15E64 50D0 442C AA60 DB7A3E19F92A This is me with bl2 laminate veneers (emax). I actually went a shade darker because they were too white for me. The clinic spent a few hours chemically darkening them to bl3.

08C07260 DDD2 48E6 89AD 65F8B48AB3CA
They sold the procedure as front enamel preparation only but when I sat in the dentist chair the story changed - they needed to do more grinding. Felt like a good old bait and switch which fucked me off ngl. But I still went through with it, for better or worse. They shave less than a crown as you can see from this fuck ugly pic attached. Choose your clinic carefully.

The procedure was pain free due to local anaesthetic. I’ve had a throbbing pain so have been taking ibuprofen, hoping it subsides soon.
 
My teeth always looked perfect and they’re pretty white. Is this a white people thing? :feelswat:
no brits are known to have shittier teeth
 
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[Recopilating this info took me a month of reading papers and studies done for dentists, coupled with very thorough Instagram searches and watching seminars from top tier ceramists. There's nothing wrote in depth about veneers and the market itself is shady af, I hope this helps you to ascend].

First of all, if you have a malocclusion, a narrow smile, crowded teeth, etc, you have to fix it first, non negotiable. There are plenty of threads here that have everything you need with regards to jaw surgery, palate widening or even surgically assisted orthodontics. This guide is only useful if you already have a class 1 occlusion, non recessed jaw and adequate palate width, but not good tooth enamel and as such need veneers or crowns (or you only need braces to straighten your teeth and widen your dental arch a little bit, and also contemplate veneers to improve your teeth's appeareance, but you don't have jaw recession or a narrow palate as mentioned before).

IMPORTANT: veneers are made by ceramists, not dentists, and the ceramist skills trumps the material used. A top tier ceramist can make EMAX or even indirect composite veneers look much better than porcelain made by a mediocre ceramist.


What type of veneer/crown materials exist?

- Metal made crowns: this look like shit and are obsolete, avoid at all costs.

- Zirconia made crowns and veeners: this are the highest strenght available and replaced metal made crowns. They are more suitable for molars, their strenght is twice as much as the natural tooth enamel. So, why not do a full mouth restoration out of zirconia? Because it has the lowest translucency and looks very artificial, so it is the worst looking material possible. The typical Hollywood/Instagram artificial smile is made with zirconia most of the time:

dis-kaplamasi.jpeg


- Lithium disilicate veneers and crowns (EMAX): this is very popular and has the same strenght as tooth enamel in monolithic form. It looks better than zirconia but not as good as natural teeth. It is the best material for molars, because it is more aesthetic than zirconia and matches the natural enamel strenght. It can be stratified with porcelain on top to look better and resemble natural teeth a lot more. The downside is that it looses strenght and is not suitable for back molars like before. The higher the translucency and aesthetics, the lower the strenght, this is a consistent tradeoff. The norm with EMAX restorations usually is to have monolithic, non stratified crowns on molars, and stratified, higher aesthetics but lower strenght veneers/crowns in the front.
EMAX veneers stratified with porcelain on top:

a30.jpg


- Composite veneers (direct and indirect): this are the cheapest possible veneer, and can be done direct (the dentist does it in the same visit) or indirect (a mold of your teeth is send to a lab where they make the veneers). The very best option, of course, is to have a top tier ceramist make you indirect composite veneers. Don't be fooled by their price, for the right patient, they mog EMAX. Downside is that they last half as much as EMAX or Porcelain, and stain with tobacco or tea (not that you should be smoking but is good to know) and have a very low strenght. This is an example of indirect composite veneers done by a great ceramist:

13-a530d596.png

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As you can see, he already have very good tooth enamel and color, but weird central incisors. Indirect composite can give high translucency and mimic natural enamel to a large degree, and because he already had a great starting point, he saved lots of money and got a mogger result.

- Off the shelf porcelain veneers (Lumineers, Empress): Don't get me wrong, this are still custom made to fit your teeth, but not as much as other alternatives that I'll mention. This type of porcelain veneer has higher translucency and aesthetics than EMAX (monolithic or stratified), but is not as strong, so they can't be used for molars. They are sold as no prep veneers, but you have to be careful with this, because most veneers normally need some take some teeth away to look natural and avoid a bulky look. While we should strive to preserve as much teeth as possible, we shouldn't fall for the always minimally invasive meme and get a subpar result too. This is one example I found, as you can see, it looks good but not much better than EMAX. IMO well done composite mogs this, and if you have cash, you should avoid it and skip to the next two alternatives I'm going to talk about.

lumineers-veneers.jpg


- Fully custom feldspathic porcelain veneers (CAD/CAM made): OK, as the name implies, this are fully custom made for you. Feldspathic porcelain is the material most similar to teeth enamel and the one with the highest aesthetics, period. CAD/CAM veneers and crowns designed with software using a microcamera to take thousands of pictures of your mouth, print a realistic mold and send it to a lab, where a technician CNC mills a block of porcelain until it obtains the desired shape, and a ceramist hand paints it to obtain a natural result. With softwares like Smile Cloud, you can even see how the smile will look on you, both static and in motion (!). The same technique can be used for EMAX and Zirconia too, in fact, is much more common to have fully custom EMAX veneers with this method, but you can get feldspathic porcelain too.

biometric_design_tab_ok.7235e777.jpg


So, this mogs brutally and that's it? Not so fast, being milled from a single block, they still lack translucency and aesthetics compared to this alternative, which mogs so hard it will shock you.

- Fully custom, hand made on platinum foil or refractory method feldspathic porcelain veneers: this methods are the old school way of doing porcelain veneers, and by far the most aesthetic if done by a good ceramist. The porcelain, in powder state, is layered by hand by the ceramist until the desired shape and color is obtained. The only con is that they are weaker than tooth enamel, so they are not good for the molars. You can still get the 10 anterior teeth and the sides of your molars veneered (if you have a true 12 tooth smile) with it.

Words don't describe how hard this mogs, so I'm going to leave you with this instead:





We haven't touched on inlays and outlays, which are like partial crowns. If your teeth is not that damaged to warrant a crown, you can (and should) have an inlay or outlay, made with EMAX if it's in the molars, or with indirect composite or hand made porcelain if you want if it is in the front teeth. These are also cheaper than veneers and crowns by around 30%.

Normally, in Spain, this would be the prices per tooth:

- Indirect composite: 200-300€
- EMAX: 500-700€ (CAD-CAM, stratified or not)
- Lumineers/Empress: 500-700€
- CAD/CAM Porcelain: 500-700€
- Hand made Porcelain: 700-1000€

Hand made porcelain by a world class ceramist can cost up to 2000-2500€ per tooth (see Dr_Averin recent IG posts :feelswhy:).

TL;DR:
you either have this smile or nothing, no excuses other than money:

5-castano-mechas-rubias-naturales-1666349823.jpg

I need this. I have probably the worst teeth on this forum, I already had ceramic crowns snd some composite filling. Dentestry isnt cover up by medical insurence here, is crazy expensive, you need a loan to do something here. I see lots of young people with bad teeth here because they can't aford .
 
I'm confused by the message in the OP. My teeth are healthy, my enamel is healthy, but they still don't look good. Am I a case for veneers? Both my front teeth and my right incisor are fake.

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