Undeniable proof that Islam is legit

[Gonthar]

We all die, everything you say is acknowledged by Islam. So what's the actual argument?

So what's the point of following Islam, if it's all the same in the end?

 

[Deleted member 10913]

So what's the point of following Islam, if it's all the same in the end?

Worship Allah, our creator for we all are finite and we will be held accountable for our deeds wether it is liked or not. Today everyone has acces to the scriptures, Everyone can see who stands for what. Everyone can veto the decisions in his brain, you can act just or choose not to. İn the end it's a test. You choose your action/beliefs unlike anything else these are not fixed hence the only thing that would be questioned. İf you accept afterlife would you say that the onlything one would be held accountable on is which was in your control?

 

[Enfant terrible]

We just say that they had an original message which was corrupted by time like the own Old Testament say.

Your word against them
Claims without proof to legitimize your religion

Also why Jesus (alayhi a salam) was a jew by religion? What we have today is the translation of the translation of the translation of what Mark, John, Luke and Matthew wrote 60-70 years after Jesus (we don't know who they even are really nor we have chains of narrations), we also know that their works come from an early source named supposedly Q or Kiu or something like that. We muslims just go a bit far and say that Jesus had his own Gospel revealed and that all of those sources and works come from that Gospel, which was corrupted for the sake of human interest (Hellenization of Christianity, appealing to the Romans, etc)

Claims without proof to legitimize your religion

Not true, Abraham (alayhi a salam) which is one of the most respected prophets of the three monotheist religions and he was not jewish, he was Mesopotamian (Iraqi), Ismael the son of Abraham was an arab, and Isaac was an Israelite.

he never existed as a real person
" The Abraham story cannot be definitively related to any specific time, and it is widely agreed that the patriarchal age, along with the Exodus and the period of the judges, is a late literary construct that does not relate to any period in actual history.[6] After a century of exhaustive archaeological investigation, no evidence has been found for a historical Abraham.[7] His story was probably composed in the early Persian period (late 6th century BCE) as a result of tensions between Jewish landowners who had stayed in Judah during the Babylonian captivity and traced their right to the land through their "father Abraham", and the returning exiles who based their counterclaim on Moses and the Exodus tradition.[8]"
If abraham is not real mohammed cannot be descended from him
kaaba was not build by him etc.
The foundations of your whole religion are fictional
You seem like an intelligent person i dont know why you waste your time with religion

Even the Bible says that Ishmael (alayhi a salam) was granted by God a good progeny: "And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation."

if abraham is ficitional so is ishmael
literary construct

In another prophecy of the Bible in Isaiah it says that a Prophet will appear from among the people of Kedar (Kedar is a son of Ishmael), on the Mountain of Sela (Google where the mountain of Sela is). He would be "The Servant of God" (Abdullah), "The Chosen One"(Mustafa). I would challenge right here and right now the Pope to tell me who that Arab prophet who arrived in the Mountain of Sela was. This prophecy by the way os very accepted among Jewish scholars that it talks about Muhammad (alayhi a salat wa salam), they just say that he was for the arabs and not for the sons of Israel

You know coincidences happen

This is said several times, that a Prophet from the brothers of the Isrselites who is similar to Moses (alayhi a salam) would appear, and we know that the biography of both is very similar (Both orphans, both tortured and then migrated, both had a revelation, etc etc)

" the historicity of Muhammad, aside from his existence, is debated. How much reliable history there is about Muhammad is disputed, with some Muslim sources maintaining that "everything he did and said was recorded",[3] while other academic sources claim that almost all of the available information about Muhammad's life, apart from the fact of his existence, is not historically credible.[4]

The earliest Muslim source of information for the life of Muhammad, the Quran, gives very little personal information and its historicity is debated.[5][6] Prophetic biography, known as sīra, along with records of the words, actions, and the silent approval of Muhammad, known as hadith, survive in the historical works of writers from the third and fourth centuries of the Muslim era (c. 800−1000 CE),[7][8] and give a great deal of information on Muhammad, but the reliability of this information is very much debated. In addition there are a relatively small number of contemporaneous or near-contemporaneous non-Muslim sources which confirm the existence of Muhammad and are valuable both in themselves and for comparison with Muslim sources.[6 "
We dont know much about his life

No one knows Joseph Smith anyways, Muhammad (alayhi a salat wa salam) is one of the most if not the most influential person in history according to almost any decent historian. His teachings are way more important and successful, and have affected humanity forever.

Yes
but they are both prophets who claim to be messengers of god
I used joseph smith because he is another sucessfull prophet
his religion has 16,663,663 members
It was an exmaple
Importance and sucess doesnt matter here

 

[Deleted member 756]

christianity is a strange version of judaism

Islam and Christianity are derived from Judaism. All the Abrahamic faiths have more in common than what divides them. But Christianity lacks a political system unlike the two because of the Roman Empire which mandated how Christianity was practiced imo

 

[WadlowMaxxing]

 

[Ryan]

View attachment 1146764

If Christianity was legit salahaddin wouldn't had taken the true cross with him.. U people would have won that battle in which salahaddin crushed u and took the true cross and it got lost forever jfl

 

[Deleted member 10913]

Importance and sucess doesnt matter here

Well it does, how would your anything you say be legitimate if it didn't have succes in the first place. Comparing Joseph smith to İslam is not valid. One gave empires states out of the deserts of arabia the other stayed in USA. İf joseph smith would be able to inherit the Whole of america his claims would atleast be seen more serious.

he never existed as a real person

Your word against them
Claims without proof to legitimize your religion

Our scripture never changed language unlike the Bible. The moment language is changed by default it's not the same. The moment it isn't changed by default it is the same. To claim It didn't you should show a case where it would've been changed for any reason.

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

Your word against them
Claims without proof to legitimize your religion

No, the majority of Jewish scholars accept that verse as true. Not only that, they also say that it is also impossible for the Old Testament to have been completely preserved since we know that Moses and his people didn't speak Hebrew, but other languages.

Claims without proof to legitimize your religion

This? Again? It depends on what proof yu want, if what you want is empirical proof of a Being which is outside time and space while we can't even proof that we ourselves are conscious to other people...

If you want prophecies and those kind of things, go to page 1 and look for my commentary on the middle of the page, it will give an the idea.

he never existed as a real person
" The Abraham story cannot be definitively related to any specific time, and it is widely agreed that the patriarchal age, along with the Exodus and the period of the judges, is a late literary construct that does not relate to any period in actual history.[6] After a century of exhaustive archaeological investigation, no evidence has been found for a historical Abraham.[7] His story was probably composed in the early Persian period (late 6th century BCE) as a result of tensions between Jewish landowners who had stayed in Judah during the Babylonian captivity and traced their right to the land through their "father Abraham", and the returning exiles who based their counterclaim on Moses and the Exodus tradition.[8]"
If abraham is not real mohammed cannot be descended from him
kaaba was not build by him etc.
The foundations of your whole religion are fictional
You seem like an intelligent person i dont know why you waste your time with religion

Impossible to even prove, that is probably just some opinion of some random historian. But you know what, i'll give you one thing, some people in history have left 0 evidence on their existence, SURPRISE!! I can't even prove you that my great great great grandfather existed.

if abraham is ficitional so is ishmael
literary construct

Same as i said in the last one

You know coincidences happen

I had this debate so many times people saying me that people win the lottery... if the same man won thee lottery 200 times allow me to suspect a bit

" the historicity of Muhammad, aside from his existence, is debated. How much reliable history there is about Muhammad is disputed, with some Muslim sources maintaining that "everything he did and said was recorded",[3] while other academic sources claim that almost all of the available information about Muhammad's life, apart from the fact of his existence, is not historically credible.[4]

Who says this? Why should we even accept it? If you reject Muhammad existing then by the same criteria you must reject history in it's entirety, since he has the most complete chain of narrations in the history of humanity, from people who were completely disconnected, literally saying the same things. If you reject him you must reject history by the same criteria

The earliest Muslim source of information for the life of Muhammad, the Quran, gives very little personal information and its historicity is debated.[5][6] Prophetic biography, known as sīra, along with records of the words, actions, and the silent approval of Muhammad, known as hadith, survive in the historical works of writers from the third and fourth centuries of the Muslim era (c. 800−1000 CE),[7][8] and give a great deal of information on Muhammad, but the reliability of this information is very much debated. In addition there are a relatively small number of contemporaneous or near-contemporaneous non-Muslim sources which confirm the existence of Muhammad and are valuable both in themselves and for comparison with Muslim sources.[6 "
We dont know much about his life

Same in the last, you just took from granted some random opinion somewhere (Which is not even an opinion). Any decent historian will tell you that his narrations are tremendously reliable sources.

Again, if you reject Muhammad (alayhi a salat wa salam) the you must reject Aristotles, Alexader the Great or whatever

Why did you took for granted at the beggining that Jesus (alayhi a salam) was a jew practicing Judaism without almost any chain of narration but then you say Muhammad life (alayhi a salat wa salam) isn't reliable even when we have a tremendous amount of chains of narrations from, as i said, completely different people narrating in the majority of cases the same events almost word by word? Recompiled by completely different people also from different ages.

Why this double standard?

 

[Deleted member 10913]

Why this double standard?

He wants an video tape of actual footage of every prophet

 

[volcelfatcel]

Mashallah

 

[Baldingman1998]

There is no top three, if you want i can give you three randomly.

1-When the muslims were 3.000 against 9.000-10.000 polytheists in the Battle of the Trench facing extinction and the Prophet (alayhi a salat wa salam) prophesied the conquests of Syria, Persia and Yemen. Syria and Yemen at that time were property of the Sassanid Empire and Bizantine Empire, the muslims just after the death of the beloved (alayhi a salat wa salam) were just a bunch of outnumbered bedouins and somehow they managed to defeat both empires at the same time.

2-This one i learned it the past month (i'm still discovering a lot). He was the first human being in history to have been recorded saying that the human body has exactly 360 joints, even until 1995 scientists thought we had 340 (They didn't know we had 10 in every ear) and no one before or after him gave that precise number.

3-The Romans will defeat the Persians from 3 to 9 years (when the Sassanids were crushing the Byzantines) spread of homosexuality, fornication, music, there will come a time interest will be so widespread that even those who avoid it will be afflicted by it, arab bedouins competing for tall buildings, conquests of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, etc etc, as i said, they are too many and i'm trying to put them on a paper. Also the tremendous comprehension of historical facts, for example the Qur'an call the ruler of Egypt at the time of prophet Yusuf (alayhi a salam) "King", and the ruler at the time of Musa (alayhi a salam) "Pharaoh" (the Bible calls them both Pharaoh when we know that at the time of Yusuf alayhi a salam there was no such thing, but there is that sudden change of terms in Al Qur'an), also it says that the people of Abraham (alayhi a salam) (mesopotamians or certain group among them) worshipped the Sun, Moon and a Kawkab (space object, which was discovered to be Venus) and those things were discovered a 1000 years after like the Rosetta Stone, etc. The number of scholars of the past which said that the earth is round according to the Qur'an.

Also there are lots of psychological facts, scientific facts like all life comes from water. Etc etc etc, as i said, too many and i like to also put opinions of scholars, historians, experts, scientists, etc, that's why it is difficult to categorize them and put them on a paper

I also like to compare them with other so called prophets, prophecies, etc

1. 300 Spartans vs 10k persians. So I'm a Zeus worshipper now

2. Big if true but I don't believe that

3. Some things are true but others are wrong. Especially this:

 

[Deleted member 10913]

1. 300 Spartans vs 10k persians. So I'm a Zeus worshipper now

2. Big if true but I don't believe that

3. Some things are true but others are wrong. Especially this:

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

1. 300 Spartans vs 10k persians. So I'm a Zeus worshipper now

2. Big if true but I don't believe that

3. Some things are true but others are wrong. Especially this:

I didn't watch the video, later Insha Allah. But i must say that Zakir Naik is not the most reliable source, i don't take too much of my knowledge for him, my sources are better but i respect Zakir Naik anyways. And that Taqiyya is just allowed on life or death situation. (Tremendous that people still bring it up).

1- The muslims didn't kill the 10.000 pagans, it's called Battle of the Trench because they builded a trench in Madina and survived. The death toll was very low and the pagans had to retire

2-Narrated by two different people, a wife of the prophet and the other a companion i'f im not wrong (alayhim a salat wa salam), that fact is completely reliable.

3-Later i'll see the video, anyways, the prophecies are all either Qur'an or saheeh hadiths if i'm not wrong (as i said, i don't follow the methods of Zakir Naik which are very bogus in some occasions, but he is a respected person)

 

[Michael Myers]

what do you think what islam is
lol
its like mormonism
some random arab stealing jewish christian tradition for his own religion

you just mad because some arabs conquered your country

 

[Michael Myers]

Islam and Christianity are derived from Judaism. All the Abrahamic faiths have more in common than what divides them. But Christianity lacks a political system unlike the two because of the Roman Empire which mandated how Christianity was practiced imo

islam isnt derived from judaism nor christianity actually as it would imply its just an off-shoot of another religion. but you are right that we have more in common but people like to sow division and hatred, even christians hate other christian sects as do other islamic people hate other islamic sects.

 

[Deleted member 756]

islam isnt derived from judaism nor christianity actually as it would imply its just an off-shoot of another religion. but you are right that we have more in common but people like to sow division and hatred, even christians hate other christian sects as do other islamic people hate other islamic sects.

We all share basically the same prophets and stories. 60 percent of the Koran is found in the Torah and gospels. The Hadith is similar to the Babylonian Talmud. I think it’s a good thing as it shows we are have the same roots

 

[Michael Myers]

We all share basically the same prophets and stories. 60 percent of the Koran is found in the Torah and gospels. The Hadith is similar to the Babylonian Talmud. I think it’s a good thing as it shows we are have the same roots

yes i know why it may seem like a copy of another religion but islam is what was preached from day 1, its basically a restoration of the original faith and christianity and judaism both had their place once in the world but it got so muddied with people just altering texts and whatnot that the original meaning was lost. but not even islamic people know this, only a very few people do. so thats why we have similar stories because its from the same source (meaning god)